User talk:PlatinumClipper96/Archives/2021/December

London Overground
"Hi Platinum Clipper96 not sure this is the best way to converse. Apologies if it is not - happy to learn - - just a query re you undoing my edit on London. It seems that your reference regarding the edit is based on old information. The overground is no longer part of Network rail but rather run by tfl. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? Best Londonfan1"

Hi, Londonfan1, and my apologies for not responding sooner. I've just noticed the above message on my user page, and I've moved it here (to my talk page). The reason why London Overground wasn't listed on the London article is because it is one of many train operating companies that run suburban mainline rail routes in London. Network Rail is responsible for the lines, which Overground also share with other operators. It isn't a separate rapid transit system (despite having a name that puts it on a par with the Underground!). Hope I've answered your question, PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 18:53, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi, PlatinumClipper96, thank you for your reply and apologies again for getting the communications wrong. I guess this one shoulo be debated further. Arguably, DLR, which is mentioned on a par with the underground is also not 'owned' but only operated by TfL. Overground is operated by TfL but also not owned. And then there is the question of the Elizabeth Line which will have a similar status. TfL publishes several maps: A London Tube Map - this has DLR, Underground and Overground on it and the Elizabeth Line will be added. Then there is a Map that adds Rail services in London. But interestingly, the tube map clearly differentiates the (light) rail services of Overground, EL and DLR from the other rail services, so unlike you suggest, they are not on a par, ie not two of many. I would have thought what is relevant for Wiki readers is not some legal background but the fact that TFL shows all 4 services on a single map and that the user experience for most users of Overground, DLR and underground is one of urban transport, not suburban commuter transport. I would hope this could be made clearer in the London section on transport. What do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Londonfan1 (talk • contribs) 15:22, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi there again, Londonfan1. Not been on Wikipedia for a while! The DLR is mentioned in a similar way to the Underground because it forms a separate transport system. London Overground, TfL Rail and Elizabeth Line are all mainline National Rail services, whereas the Tube and DLR are seperate rapid transit systems. TfL decided a while ago to include the National Rail services they operate on the Tube map, but these are still mainline rail services, and London Overground & TfL Rail/Elizabeth Line are National Rail train operating companies. I disagree with the idea of the "urban transport experience" you've linked to Tube, DLR and Overground, and the "suburban commuter transport experience" you've linked to non-Overground mainline rail services. Overground is used for suburban commuter rail journeys having taken over some of those routes from other operators. Other rail services are also used for urban journeys. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 13:53, 16 December 2021 (UTC)