User talk:Plumbago/Archive 10

Orphaned non-free media (File:Xen halflife 08 AYool.jpg)
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NowCommons: File:AYool SEAWIFS annual.png
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re Tragedy... in Mongolia
The information came from a report yesterdy(?) on National Public Radio in the US. They are running a series of reports from there. The reason for the sort of weasel words was that their report did not concentrate on ecological effects, but rather human dislocation caused by land grabbing by companies, disadvantaging small would-be miners. I figured someone would have a better source and could fill it in. How do you suggest getting this past the fact patrollers? ww (talk) 17:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi ww. I reverted the text for a couple of reasons.  Firstly, it was unsourced, although I have been able to find the story at NPR.  Secondly, the source makes no reference to the Tragedy of the commons, so adding it to the article appears either original research or a synthesis.  Finally, it's not obviously an example of the Tragedy of the commons.  It's not as if the article needs another present-day example - there are so many.  It would really need to be clearcut and a significant case for inclusion to my mind.  Anyway, those were the reasons that I reverted.  I should really have put something on the talkpage, but I got distracted elsewhere.  Sorry.  I hope this clarifies things though.  --P LUMBAGO  21:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Young Earth creationism
Hello :)

Question @ Plumbago: What was the problem with identifying the source of the webpage as "evolutionist"? I was not meant to be demeaning, the cited webpage clearly states that evolution is what they are proponents for. "Regularly" seemed to be a stretch if not misrepresentational about "quote mining" since it was only cited once and is not mentioned anywhere else on the web or in any of the many evolution vs. creation works that I have read or studied. If there are other sources out there could you point them out.

Thanks for your time,

John —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.179.129.242 (talk • contribs)


 * Hi John.


 * First of all, there really are no such people as "evolutionists" (at least, not any more). This is just a term used by creationists (of whom, by contrast, there are very many) for any scientist who does not subscribe to their literalist interpretation of one particular book.  The correct term is, of course, "scientists", since that's really what creationists are objecting to.  I certainly don't take the term as a demeaning one, just one that has no currency outside of creationist forums.  You certainly don't see scientists described as "evolutionists" at conferences or on name-badges for instance.  While discussion continues within science on the details of evolution, the big picture stuff is all over.  Evolution won.  [*]


 * Regarding your objection to the use of "regularly", this is stated simply because "quote mining" is one which creationists have practised for years, and one which they show no sign of giving up on yet. This isn't to say that some creationists haven't learned to drop such a tendentious practice (see this link), but just that some haven't (see a recent example here).  The source given for this statement in the article points you towards a talk.Origins project that was started to collate examples of such efforts, and to identify the original scientific material from which quotes were taken and misused.  And there are other sources available over at the quote mining article as well.


 * Anyway, please follow up some of these links and you may perhaps see what I mean. My apologies for being less than helpful in my original edit summary.


 * Best regards, --P LUMBAGO 15:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * [*] If you'll permit me to speculate for a moment, the reason for the use of the term "evolutionists" by creationists is to imply a false divide within science between "science-based-on-evolution" and "science-based-on-creationism". There quite simply is none of the latter, as evidenced by the thousands of papers published each year which (largely unwittingly and unknowingly) trample all over creationist ideas.  Biology is not creationism's sole (or even worst) enemy: all fields from physics to chemistry to archaeology to geology to astronomy to agronomy are grounded on well-tested ideas and evidence that falsifies creationism.  But by giving the impression (noticeably to the public rather than the scientific community) that there's separate science out there based either on evolution and creationism, creationists are mischievously trying to sow erroneous seeds of doubt.  But, hey, that's just my POV.

File:HEV suit AYool.jpg listed for deletion
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File:Stained glass Gordon AYool.jpg listed for deletion
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An article you commented on in the past is at AfD
I noticed that you commented in a past AfD discussion of the article Nicholas Beale. After being deleted then, it has been reposted and is now back at AfD again, so you might be interested in commenting again (but you are under no obligation to). Thank you, r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 22:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Not again. Oh ... [quick check] ... it's gone.  Furthermore, I almost can't believe that the article's subject has yet again interceded on its behalf — I've yet to meet anyone else on WP as vainly obsessed with self-promotion.  Anyway, thanks for the heads-up — I'll keep an eye out for further vanity-incursions by NBeale.  Cheers, --P LUMBAGO  07:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

An article you commented on in the past is at WP:COIN
It concerns suspected COI editing at Douglas Coupland. COIN thread here. Cheers,  JN 466  21:10, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Denialism
An article that you have been involved in editing, Denialism, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/. Thank you.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message.

Walter Munk
Just wanted to drop by to thank you for keeping an eye out on the Walter Munk article. To be honest, I don't know anything about all this, so I'm wary with outright removing the material that has been added (except, of course, the obvious WP:NPOV violations), but I'll have a look at the other article and see what could/should be done. If you've got any insights/ideas, I'm wide open for them. Cheers, CP 05:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries. I just spotted the insertion of slightly dubious material that didn't appear to conform to my (normally unreliable) memory of events.  Having poked around a bit more, it transpires that ATOC got a clean bill of health from the "whale lovers" charged with investigating it, and that it actually ran until 2006.  There's a review article on it by Walter Munk and colleagues just this year ...


 * Dushaw, B.D., Worcester, P.F., Munk, W.H., et al. (2009). A decade of acoustic thermometry in the North Pacific Ocean.  J. Geophys. Res. 114, C07021, doi:10.1029/2008JC005124.


 * Anyway, I'll post this over at the article's talkpage and see if the "Green Peace" editor returns to discuss. Cheers, --P LUMBAGO  09:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Xen halflife 01 AYool.jpg
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Orphaned non-free image File:Resonance cascade AYool.jpg
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Orphaned non-free image File:Mercenary pic 1.gif
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