User talk:Pppery/Archive 13

Stop describing Tfd nominations as "nonsense"
I think the heading makes it clear. You have done it on some of my and Q28's nominations in recent days. If you continue to describe nominations as "nonsense" an ANI will have to submitted over this kind of behavior. And I will have to remove you from the task force. Your responses aren't being taken as constructive and are coming off as mean-spirited. If you don't understand, so be it. You can still vote as you see fit without such words. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:29, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Stop nominating templates for reasons that make no sense and I won't have to do that. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:03, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * What you think doesn't make sense doesn't mean you can call it that. It comes off as a personal attack and others will view it as such. You shouldn't be doing that in the first place. I don't want to drag this any further so just don't do it again. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 02:19, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Tagging pages for deletion
Hello, Pppery,

When you tag a page for deletion, please notify the page creator with a notice on their talk page. It is easiest if you use Twinkle because the program will usually post the notice for you once you set up your Preferences to "Notify page creator" and check the boxes of every CSD criteria. But even if Twinkle fails to do this, then you need to notify the page creator yourself with a personal message. What query this refers to are 2 categories you tagged for speedy deletion....both of these categories were created by administrators who placed a tag on them NOT to delete them if they are empty. I think it's important that you check with the page creators about this. I know that I am reluctant to delete pages under these circumstances. Right now, an admin evaluating the pages needs to trust your word that these categories are no longer needed. It would be ideal if the admin who created the pages did the deletion once you informed them of the situation.

It's always important to spend the time communicating with other editors when you are requesting action that doesn't seem obviously necessary. My guess is that most admins who patrol CSD categories will pass on acting on your request and decline to delete. Here's a tip, there are lots of admins who look at speedy deletion categories but if they are unsure about a tagging, they leave it for the next admin to look over and make a decision on. So, if these pages are still sitting, tagged, hours from now, that's a sign that the admins who looked them over were not certain that they should be deleted. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 21:35, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * There's nothing ambiguous about it. In the case of Category:Pages which should not use KML from Wikidata, the category text says quite clearly that it was populated by No KML (Pages should be added to this category using.). Since that template has been deleted at TfD, the category quite clearly meets the G8 criterion (Categories populated by deleted [...] templates). G8 doesn't even have a template to notify, who in any case hasn't edited since August 26, so I suspect asking him would have not produced a useful response. For Category:Wikipedia spacecraft media missing information, although the creator is still active,  merely moved the page from Category:Wikipedia spacecraft articles missing information per a discussion in 2013, which does not make them any better-situated to evaluate whether the page is G8-able than you are. Regardless, the category was populated by spacecraft missing information, which was deleted at TfD, so this is again a straightforward db-templatecat. * Pppery * it has begun...  21:53, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * And deleted the categories an hour and a half after you posted this message, proving your speculation of the future wrong. * Pppery * it has begun...  00:02, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Ontario COVID-19 pandemic timeline
Hi Pppery, I wanted to reach out to you regarding your reversion of S201050066’s edits to the Timeline of the COVID-19 pandemic in Ontario article. You objected to the addition of lists between September and November 2020 on the grounds that they were taking up too much space and that there was an automated table at the top of the article. Me and S201050066 are working on an ongoing project to put in tables with a breakdown of daily cases, recoveries, deaths and cases in hospitals. One solution may be to spilt the article into 2020 and 2021 articles. That will help reduce the length to a manageable level. Andykatib 19:51, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Splitting the article into two instead is fine with me. (Although you've misstated my objection, it wasn't that I thought the article was too long, it's that the page exceeded the post-expand include size limit and as a result the navboxes at the bottom weren't rendering). * Pppery * it has begun... 20:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Pppery, thanks for the clarification and understanding. My apologies for misstating your objection. I meant to say that it exceeded the article maximum size limit. I have managed to create two separate Ontario timeline articles for 2020 and 2021. Since the 2020 article is about 306,000 bytes, I have advised S201050066 that he can help reduce the length of the article by using just one source for each of the daily reports. That should help keep the article length at a more manageable size. Andykatib 20:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Pppery I am going to echo what Andykatib said to you earlier you undid my edit on the Ontario Timeline and I do recognize that you have a point on the issue but you should had not reverted me and Andykatib work On The Ontario timeline we undid your edit on the Ontario timeline page for 2020 we had spited the articles into 2020 and 2021 and what you did was unnecessary and I think you should apologies to me and Andykatib and if it happens again the next time you will be getting a warning and if you continue to undo our edits like you did On the Ontario Timeline page you will be blocked from editing for 24 hours or indefinitely.S201050066 5:42 pm eastern standard time
 * There was nothing wrong with my initial revert; you made a bold edit, I reverted it, now we are discussing, and I've indicated I'm fine with splitting the article and keeping the content I removed. True, if I start edit warring with you and Andykatib I might get blocked for that, but there's no indication that will happen and your threat is entirely unpersuasive. * Pppery * it has begun... 23:33, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * apology accepted I understand your point and I am very sorry me and Andykatib we were both little upset earlier and I understand now and I think it comes down to matter of respect and I Know that you are good User but you did messed up lets settle this issue down and lets move on S201050066 7:22 pm eastern standard time December 10 2021
 * OK. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:23, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries Ppery and S201050066, I wasn't upset at all. I understand that Ppery's intentions were well intended and in accordance with Wikipedia policy. Glad that we have managed to reach a good solution to the issue. S201050066, it might help if you could improve your grammar and spelling as well as your editing skills. That will reduce the risk of other users reverting your edits. Andykatib 00:28, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Andykatib thank you I was kind of a little upset with Pppery and I was not upset at Pppery it was just the time and effort I put into my work I did for September through November of 2020 we hope we don't get you involved in any of our work again Pppery have a wonderful day S201050066 7:50 pm eastern standard time December 10 2021

Query
Hello, Pppery,

I'm just a little curious but how are you finding all of these outdated, now useless categories you are tagging for deletion? They are uncategorized by subject or use so I'm not sure how you even found them or came across them. Are you going through the thousands of Noindexed pages or Hidden categories? That's a time-consuming chore! But I'm glad someone took it on. Thanks. Liz Read! Talk! 04:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I just realized that these categories are probably associated with deleted templates and that's how you found them. But I'll leave my message as it is. Liz Read! Talk! 04:42, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm going through all categories that are in Category:Hidden categories and in no other parent categories (not counting subcats of Category:CatAutoTOC tracking categories), at 's suggestion. There were only about 150 total, so it's not actually that time consuming. (And these have nothing to do with deleted templates) * Pppery * it has begun... 04:43, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

User:Pppery/noinclude list
Hi, do you know why User:Pppery/noinclude list is [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere&target=Template:WikiProject_East_Timor%2Fhide&hidelinks=1 showing] as transcluding ? It's being reported at Database reports/Broken WikiProject templates. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 12:31, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The page transcludes all templates listed at TfD in order to check that they are properly tagged. The transclusion should disappear in a few hours when Templates for discussion/Log/2021 December 4 is closed, before that database report is next updated, so there's no need for me to do anything. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:00, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 16:37, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

RFA 2021 Completed
The 2021 re-examination of RFA has been completed. 23 (plus 2 variants) ideas were proposed. Over 200 editors participated in this final phase. Three changes gained consensus and two proposals were identified by the closers as having the potential to gain consensus with some further discussion and iteration. Thanks to all who helped to close the discussion, and in particular, , and for closing the most difficult conversations and for  for closing the review of one of the closes.

The following proposals gained consensus and have all been implemented:
 * 1) Revision of standard question 1 to Special thanks to  for help with implementation.
 * 2) A new process, Administrative Action Review (XRV) designed to review if an editor's specific use of an advanced permission, including the admin tools, is consistent with policy in a process similar to that of deletion review and move review. Thanks to all the editors who contributed (and are continuing to contribute) to the discussion of how to implement this proposal.
 * 3) Removal of autopatrol from the administrator's toolkit. Special thanks to and  for their help with implementation.

The following proposals were identified by the closers as having the potential to gain consensus with some further discussion and iteration:
 * 1) An option for people to run for temporary adminship ( proposal, discussion, & close )
 * 2) An optional election process ( proposal & discussion and close review & re-close )

Editors who wish to discuss these ideas or other ideas on how to try to address any of the six issues identified during phase 1 for which no proposal gained are encouraged to do so at RFA's talk page or an appropriate village pump.

A final and huge thanks all those who participated in this effort to improve our RFA process over the last 4 months. This is the final update with no further talk page messages planned. 01:46, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Regarding Template:Database report
There exists Module:Database report. Consider if you want to do anything with that. Izno (talk) 18:52, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I moved it to Module:Sandbox/SDZeroBot/Database report to match the userfication of the template. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:59, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * And there's also database report end. Would you mind userfying that as well? (I'd do it myself, but I don't have the right to move pages without leaving a redirect) * Pppery * it has begun... 19:11, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Copyedit vs. cleanup
Greetings! Regarding this edit...yes, I send dozens of articles to the Guild of Copy Editors every month. In general, they don't accept articles that have other problem tags, like lack of sourcing, and will change the copyedit tag to a cleanup tag, or just drop it entirely and wait for the other problem to get fixed. -- Beland (talk) 17:52, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That's a valid point. On the other hand, when you use cleanup what tends to happen instead is the tag gets completely ignored, which isn't much better. Thus, for the last few months I've been periodically loooking at transclusions of cleanup and replacing them with other more specific tags to hopefully attract attention to them. * Pppery * it has begun... 19:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's great; a lot of people don't know the more-specific tags exist, and there are definitely people and bots better suited to such tasks. The cleanup tags aren't ignored entirely, but cleanup that involves substantial rewriting does take a lot longer than a copyedit or MOS fix, so the cleanup backlog is just a lot longer (currently 12 years). There are certainly editors working specifically on January 2010 right now, but anything we can do to make the backlog shorter would for sure help the project. Sometimes I take the oldest listings from Category:Articles needing cleanup and post a brief list to Cleanup, which for some reason seems to have at least some willing volunteers who don't look at the categories. I think seeing a cleanup tag also causes editors who watchlist a given article and people who happen to be reading it to take note and motivates some of them to fix the problem. (You can see that the longer ago a month is, the smaller the backlog is for that month.)
 * Given how time-consuming major cleanup work is, I also think people are more willing to do it if they are actually interested in the topic, and Wikiprojects are a major source of interested editors. I have recently purged the old Pages Needing Attention and am still dealing with on-site Cleanup Listing pages. We now have excellent per-Wikiproject, per-problem listings at: https://bambots.brucemyers.com/cwb/index.html
 * If you see an article festering in the cleanup queue and there's no better queue to move it, my recommendation would be to 1.) make sure it is assigned to at least one Wikiproject on its talk page, 2.) make sure linked Wikiproject pages are linked to the corresponding bambots page, and 3.) drop a note on the Wikiproject talk page if editors there don't seem aware of the cleanup backlog for their project. -- Beland (talk) 23:31, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * People were using far too often without showing why, so we added code to populate . -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:17, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Tagging pages for speedy deletion
Hello, Pppery,

When tagging pages for speedy deletion, like Category:Articles with faulty Semantic Scholar author identifiers and Category:Articles with Online PWN identifiers, it's important to post deletion notifications on the talk page of the page creator. Actually, this is a crucial step to take with any type of deletion (CSD, PROD or AFD/RFD/TFD/etc.).

I encourage you to start using Twinkle when you tag pages for deletion because once you set up your Twinkle Preferences to "Notify page creator", then Twinkle will post these notices for you. Thank you, Pppery, for all of your many contributions on the project! Liz Read! Talk! 18:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * G8 speedy deletions don't have a notification template (even when using Twinkle). I do generally notify creators when starting deletion discussions or doing speedy deletions for other criteria that do have notification templates. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:02, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Category:Articles with Online PWN identifiers
Hi, I noticed that you tagged the category page Category:Articles with Online PWN identifiers for speedy deletion, but you did not notify on my talk page. If any page created, including a category page is nominated for speedy deletion, the author is notified on their talk page. See an earlier notificication. Neel.arunabh (talk) 18:08, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't notify you because there's no template to use to notify people of Db-templatecat deletions, which I've taken to mean that for that kind of uncontroversial deletion there's no need to notify the creator. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 18:10, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

I still didn't get it
Hi Pppery, I observed that my edit request at has been declined. I went through the archive you linked but still couldn't quite understand what's the point of having these templates at the first place if the resultant transclusion will be seen as a regular wiki-markup? Thanks! ---CX Zoom(he/him) (let's talk&#124;contribs) 17:59, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know what purpose the template serves, exactly, but I also know from that discussion that making the kind of edit you requested is simply not a good idea. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 18:09, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Collapse of convo
Hey! I saw you collapsed some of the discussion at the proposal village pump. I do agree that some of it was offtopic, however some of the discussion that is in the collapsed part wasn't necessarily offtopic. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 19:26, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I left Lallint's original response (saying that the discussion I had pointed to was 8 years ago) uncollapsed. Absolutely none of the rest was related to the original proposal of adding Articles for improvement to the main page, which is the topic of the section. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 19:29, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

PDB Gallery
Did anyone ever chase Primefac's closing statement at Templates for discussion/Log/2019 March 17? I'm currently chasing the  class for removal from Common.css and ended up at what looks like a totally unnecessary template system mess that has the issues as described by Gonnym (never mind MOS:COLLAPSE). Izno (talk) 20:43, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Nothing has ever happened there as far as I know. I'm bad at following up on that sort of thing. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 21:49, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Edit request for Jonathan D. Gray
Hi Pppery. I recently posted an edit request for Jonathan D. Gray, the president and coo of Blackstone Group. Since I noticed that you are a member of WikiProject Finance & Investment I thought you might be interested in implementing my edits. One editor, Sdrqaz has been helpful in the past, but they seem to be busy at the moment, so I am turning to you. I would really appreciate it if you would take a look. Thanks, ThomasClements Blackstone (talk) 14:37, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Huh? I am not listed as a member of WikiProject Finance & Investment anywhere to my knowledge and have no interest in this subject. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 16:30, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Planets
There's definitely stuff to transfer there, given that the content that you blanked has sources that the other article needs, for starters. Uncle G (talk) 18:24, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Special:Permalink/1061374889
 * planet
 * Special:Diff/1078426841/1078894432. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 22:16, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Good show. Uncle G (talk) 04:45, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Robert Clinton Bogard
Hello, Pppery,

When admins patrol through CSD categories, they open up all of the pages in a criteria category and go through each page, one at a time. So, it helps if the editor who tags a page for CSD G4 deletion adds a link to the deletion discussion so the admin can just pop over and confirm that the discussion ended in a deletion decision and that the new article is sufficiently similar to the version that was deleted. In this case, it wouldn't have occurred to me that this page was deleted in an MFD discussion, not an AFD discussion.

Patrolling admins look over a lot of pages over the course of a day and it really helps not to have to go searching for deletion discussion pages when the tagger can just add a link to the deletion tag. Confusing CSD tagging frequently results in admins "passing over" the pages and leaving them for another admin to deal with, in this case, you corrected the tag yesterday but it was still sitting without action when I returned to it tonight. I appreciate all of the work you do on the project, from templates to tagging, I see your contributions on a daily basis. Thank you! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:11, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Tagging Pages for deletion
I noticed that you tagged my category for deletion. I read through deletion guidelines, and in no way does it break any of them. Also, it was never previously deleted via a deletion discussion, because I checked the deletion log. With your logic, any Wikipedia category with ancestry in it should be deleted. TatiVogue (talk) 15:37, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, any Wikipedia category with ancestry in it should be deleted. Because the community has come to a consensus against categorizing users by ancestry. G4 doesn't care about the title of the page you created; as long as it's fundamentally the same category, which it is. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:43, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Then mark every one for deletion then. 🤷 TatiVogue (talk) 15:47, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Are there any other Wikipedians by ancestry categories I've missed? * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:48, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I notice that you only did it to POC ethnicities. Do you have an issue with people of color? soundsl ike you're being racist..........  🤷 TatiVogue (talk) 15:47, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No, I nominated the entire Category:Wikipedians by ancestry tree for deletion back in May 2021, and saw the category you created and G4-ed it because I look at all newly-created user categories as a matter of course. Before accusing me of bias, can you point to a specific example of a non-POC ancestry category that I didn't nominate for deletion. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:54, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

G14
Hi! I removed your CSD tag from Nick Tanner (disambiguation), and converted it to a hndis. Wanted to drop you a message. Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  17:12, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No objection. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:15, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Some help needed
There are quite a few categories to be deleted per discussion on Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 12 that I can't get emptied. Do you happen to know the remedy? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:26, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ most of them. The remainder are populated by Template:user x, which checks if a category exists before populating it, so an admin just needs to hit the delete button (and I've tagged them for deletion accordingly). * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:08, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, I am glad you know your way in this jungle. Can you also have a look at the closed discussions at Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 13? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:20, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 14:14, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

CFD closures
Hello, Pppery,

Please let the editors who close CFD discussions tag categories that are due to be deleted. Categories must be emptied before they are deleted or we end up with a WP:REDNO situation that then has to be addressed. The few admins and editors who close CFD discussions are very experienced at this point so please let them handle all aspects of a closure. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 16:55, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The editor who closed the CfDs above explicitly asked me to handle them in the previous section. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 16:55, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I see that now, thanks for pointing it out. I didn't look at other messages on your talk page. I was mistaken. We still need to empty some of these categories. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 17:00, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * As I said on the categories themselves to hopefully avoid this eventuality, the current member[s are] populated by automatic template logic that checks if the category exists before populating it, so will disappear upon deletion. This whole project to clean up babel categories seems to be a recipe for pissing people off and accomplishing very little, and I probably wouldn't have bothered starting it if I had realized that a week ago. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:04, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

WP:VPM
Hi Pppery, thanks for your help with local engagement. The message I posted at WP:VPM seeks a wide audience so I wonder if you can consider cross-posting it, rather than moving it. It also seems redundant where it was moved, since a previous message on the same topic remains unarchived there. Please let me know what you think. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 03:49, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The idea that something (regardless of what that thing is) should be cross-posted to Village pump (miscellaneous), which is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category, in addition to one of the other category pages seems illogical to me. If it belongs at Village pump (WMF), then it by definition does not belong at Village pump (miscellaneous), since it fits into another category. I guess I can't stop you from reposting your message there, but I don't see a good reason to. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 04:02, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, and for explaining your thinking. Since global announcements are typically posted at WP:VPM, I think some cross-posting is okay here to make sure the draft and opportunity to provide input are not missed. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 15:03, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Your improved version
Do you plan to upload a color-corrected version? I cropped the photo to get File:Green Bay in Lake Michigan on April 16, 1972, cropped from AS16-118-18879.png and File:Delta County, Michigan, cropped from AS16-118-18879.png; I'm definitely interested in your color corrections. If you intend on uploading your whole file, I could download and crop yours. Or if you don't plan on uploading the whole file, could you crop replacements for them? I am just fine with you uploading them over my crops and replacing them.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 01:42, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I have no plans to upload any files myself, and am not sure why I was notified here. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 01:53, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I confused you with User:Ahecht, who wrote that he did color corrections.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 23:34, 29 April 2022 (UTC)