User talk:PrBeacon/Archive 2

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Dispute with wiki-bully
2 posts removed, mentioned below (or elsewhere)





'His cyber-thuggery clouds his judgement'
 * "I love the title of this section. Sounds like a book, movie or song title. I'm just sayin'. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 00:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "It's a line from the play Shakespeare would have written about Wikipedia, if he'd known about it. Manning (talk) 00:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Sysop's response to his last ANI:
 * Let me see if I can help with some things here - NRen2k5 you seem to be misunderstanding the response you've gotten to the many reports you've made about this subject already. Yes, there have been uncivil statements made but by both you and PrBeacon. Both of you need to pull back a bit - PrBeacon, obviously your tone/words/something about your posts is a concern to NRen2k5 so please try to find a way to communicate that's a bit more civil and NRen2k5, you need to settle down a bit in general and find a way to resolve the dispute instead of making these constant time-wasting reports on every board you can find. If you'd like to give a try at resolving the content dispute that's causing the two of you to conflict, I'd be happy to help. Shell babelfish 08:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC) (my emphasis)


 * You might try but I really dont see any common ground firming up until he decides to stop playing the victim whenever I disagree with him. As I recently stated on the same talk page, I can admit to a modicum of incivility but not nearly as much as he has displayed. And I know this next point may sound like a schoolyard defense, but he started it (and I give what I get) -- he has been dismissive and patronizing since we first exchanged words at the Whale Wars discussion [75] and then he carried it over to the Sea Shepherd page [76]. Most recently, he attempted to remove my own reply above [77]. PrBeacon (talk) 03:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

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admin warning
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. ''You are over 3 reverts in one day on the article. Consider taking your concerns to the talkpage. Both warring editors are being warned.'' Terrillja  talk  01:22, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually the dispute is over a related page, Sea Shepherd. Two weeks ago the other editor, Mr.NRen, quietly ammended "violent" in the middle of the group's Method: direct action (info-box). 
 * Hi Terrilja,

But that info box is fairly prominent. And apparently he made no attempt to discuss this change beforehand. Nonetheless, the archived record shows no clear consensus about hypernyms like violence and terrorism as they apply to SSCS, although Mr.NR shows his early bias there. (More on that later)
 * Now, if it had been in the body text, no big deal right.

The page on direct action lists nonviolent and violent direct action. But it doesn't really list "violent direct action" as an accepted term/label, and that's where I think he took liberty in applying it to the SSCS.
 * Back to his POV edit: when another editor objected on the talk page a week later, Mr.NR quoted two ambiguous sources on what constitutes violence (in wikipedia and two dictionaries) -- saying "it's pretty clear" when, actually, it isn't. The primary definition of violence is force against people.
 * Although the SSCS engages in violence against property, it is decidedly not against people.


 * Unfortunately, I thought Mr.NR might be an honest sort of fellow interested in finding a compromise. Instead, he comes off patronizing and dismissive. Thus I made my second mistake in engaging his petty side. I've never claimed to be a saint.


 * Now, I know some people are gonna say this is just semantics, but I dont think so. And I'm not alone, no matter how hard Mr.NR tries to ignore others.


 * So I reverted his edit back to "direct action" which is consistent with other activists' pages on wikipedia -- see the list on the direct action page. Then the revert war started and I took the issue to Editor assistance for some third-party feedback. Yet there, I think, he distorts and personalizes the dispute. "bad faith" ad nauseum.  He also seems to dominate the discussion instead of allowing others to weigh in first.


 * And get this: he accuses me of bias yet he's the one who says things like "Balance is not the goal" when clearly it is a major tenet of wikipedia's policies . He also talks about getting kicked off of other forums (which he has since removed from his talk page) and he repeatedly claims that the Sea Shepherds are "terrorists." &

I hope this clarifies some things. If you have any questions please feel free to reply here. Thanks. --Fhue/PrBeacon June 2009
 * So there we have it.

ANI Discussion
There is an discussion specifically regarding you at ANI Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 12:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thankyou for the notice. From what I've seen, it's more about him than me. Apparently he missed the ANI intro, "Please do not clutter this page with accusations"
 * And thanks for replying there. Sadly, his skewed sense of persecution is getting worse. Some might even say he's a Wiki:Bully -- I stood up to him, now he's crying foul any way and anywhere he can. Since you got a good sense of the back&forth from his W.Aa, you might like to check out his earlier appeals at my E.a.r . Cheers. Fhue (talk) 21:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC) Fhue (talk) 22:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Dispute
I’ve notified a few editors who I’ve worked with and asked them to weigh in on the issue. I believe the way I did so is within the rules (WP:CANVAS). Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, and feel free to do so yourself (within the rules, of course). — NRen2k5 (TALK), 00:16, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Fine. But should we really expect your friends to give you anything other than their subjective support? Odd how you can't quite seem to accept the feedback already given by administrative 3rd parties like User:Chamal_N, User:Mendaliv, User:Nerdseeksblonde, User:Excirial and User:Bwilkins, not to mention the localized discussion from User:Sugaar, User:Cptnono and others. By the way, your profanity   is not welcome here. Fhue (talk) 02:35, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * My friends?? — NRen2k5 (TALK), 07:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, I accept the feedback of the other editors; I just disagree with it. — NRen2k5 (TALK), 08:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

But you won't get the last word here. Fhue (talk) 22:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently you dont accept it. How many admins have told you to stop?

July 2009
Please do not delete or edit legitimate talk page comments. Such edits are disruptive and appear to be vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox.

Archives are just that: archives. They’re meant to keep a record of discussions that are now finished and are not meant to be edited. If you feel there is something unresolved in an archived discussion, the proper thing to do would be to ask an experienced editor or an admin about unarchiving it or starting a new discussion on the matter. — NRen2k5 (TALK), 05:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * As i said in my edit summary, you are NOT admin. You have no right to lecture me or anyone else about this, so stop with your template warnings -- like &  which i removed earlier but now want others to see -- and I've seen you do that to other editors you're hounding, as well, like  this one removed by SlimVirgin. On the archived WQA, your "Incorrect.." reply in small font under Bwilkin's admin note is unacceptable -- and you know it or else you would complain more elsewhere. Fhue (talk) 18:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * 


 * No one needs to be an admin to be at ANI or to warn you for edit warring. Admins are just users with tools, that doesn't mean that they have more rights than others or that regular users have less. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 02:57, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * True, but misleading. NRen2k5 is not objective in this dispute, therefore his warning is inappropriate. PrBeacon (talk)

Edit warring, username issue
You have been blocked from editing for in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule. Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first.
 * If you still have things to say at the ANI thread, you need to either start a new thread, or move the whole thread out of the archive and back to ANI (you can do this by cutting the text out of the archive, saving, and re-pasting it back to the bottom of ANI, with an explanation in italics of why you moved it back out). You should not edit archived pages, that's a clear guideline; besides, no admins are reading the archive, so it's pointless.
 * Once your block expires, please either let this ANI thread drop, or deal with it appropriately at ANI; do not keep modifying it in the archive. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 02:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I looked on the ANI pages, both active and archived, as well as the WP:Archive policy page. But I did find this: "administrators should generally ensure that users are aware of policies, and give them reasonable opportunity to adjust their behaviour accordingly, before blocking." -- from Blocking policy - Education and warnings. Fhue (talk) 08:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Where is the "clear guideline" about not editing archives?


 * You were well aware of the policy on edit warring and had ample time to stop warring before you were blocked. Again, you were not blocked for editing the archive, you were blocked for edit warring. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 10:29, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * WP:ARCHIVE is not the right page to be citing; it's a how-to guide for making archives, not a guideline about how archives should be kept. But it is well-known that you shouldn't modify discussions once they are in an archive. Furthermore, I see no evidence that NRen2k5 was doing anything incorrect before the page was archived; MiszaBot only archives ANI discussions many hours after the last comment there, so if NRen made any edits there you should have had ample time to respond to them before the archiving occurred.
 * Furthermore, you haven't explained why you should be unblocked. Whether or not NRen was wrong in editing ANI or in "bullying" you, the fact of the matter is you were blatantly edit warring. Once things are reverted, you need to discuss things; reverting an article or an archive 6 or 7 times is not acceptable, no matter how "right" you are. If it were up to me I would decline your unblock request, but I'll leave it to the next passing admin to decide. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 03:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't live on wikipedia time, so 24 hours is not a reasonable delay to reply to something before it gets archived. More importantly, it seems like you have not actually seen his reply there -- his final edit is in small text form at top in reply to admin Bwilkin's summary note. Fhue (talk) 20:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Somewhat OT: - to be completely fair, we both spammed up the dispute resolution discussions we started - and the ANI - pleading our cases and not really getting anywhere. I’d say neither of us made any egregious rule violations, but I wouldn’t say I didn’t do anything wrong. — NRen2k5 (TALK), 03:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

You (Rjanag) said as much on his talk page. He's been around longer and knows how to work the system, apparently. Fhue (talk) 08:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So why doesn't NRen2k5 get blocked, too? Because he opened the ticket first?
 * Who gets blocked and who doesn't isn't something you need to worry about; just worry about yourself. Someone else getting blocked wouldn't change the fact that you are blocked. The reason I didn't block him was because as far as I can tell he did try to have a discussion with you about why archives shouldn't be changed, and you just responded with an insult (again, people don't need to be admins to talk to you) and insisted on continuing the edit war. Once someone asks to discuss an edit, that's the time to stop reverting over it until a consensus is reached. Once your block expires I hope neither one of you will have a need to revert one another anymore. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 10:29, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

better examples: his profanity during the edit warring (and another example, earlier ) as well as his childish insults (and removing my words from my own talk page.
 * the diff you selected is not representative of the exchange.


 * in hindsight, of course, I agree that I should not have engaged in an edit war. at the time, i was frustrated by the lack of admin support    for removing his comment "Incorrect..." from the archive, and as I said I did not see any notice or policy about editing the ANI archive (other archive pages have the heading notice, why doesnt ANI?).


 * furthermore, a warning from NRen2k5 is not the same as one coming from an admin or other user, because NRen is in the middle of the conflict. his POV on this dispute is biased. as i've shown here and elsewhere  &, he has a history of verbal abuse and wiki-bullying. Fhue (talk) 20:21, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's an archive, anything more shouldn't have to be said, you aren't allowed to remove things from an archive. Archives don't change, they are recorded history of that event.  If you wish to take up the issue again, start a new topic about it.  Furthermore, you are not allowed to refactor/remove another editor's comments, improper or not.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs  20:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Secondly, we are within our full rights to warn you and lecture you about the rules. Or maybe I'm wrong.  If so, do demonstrate where is says users are now allowed to warn others when they are violating the rules.  To the contrary, it is suggested we do so.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs  20:39, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * You're repeating what others have already said, in general, and not addressing my specific points. I understand now about not editing all archives. Also, I understand that a warning from a 3rd party, whether admin or not, is fine. But given that NRen is a party to the dispute, his warnings are not objective. And if you notice, too, I heeded the first & only warning I've received from a 3rd party (Terrillja), at the top of the page. Fhue (talk) 21:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

This account, , has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia, because your username does not meet our username policy.


 * This is often not a reflection on the user, and you are encouraged to choose a new account name which does meet our guidelines and are invited to contribute to Wikipedia under an appropriate username. If you feel this block was made in error, you may quickly and easily appeal it&mdash;see below.

Our username policy provides guidance on selecting your username. In brief, usernames should not be offensive, disruptive, promotional, misleading, or related to a 'real-world' group or organization. Also, usernames may not end with the string "bot" unless the account is an approved bot account.

If you have already made edits and wish to keep your existing contributions under a new name you may request a change in username. To do so, please follow these directions:
 * Add  This is possible because even when you are blocked, you can usually still edit your own talk page.
 * At an administrator's discretion, you may be unblocked for 24 hours to file a request.
 * Please note, you may only request a name that is not already in use. The account is created upon acceptance – do not try to create the new account before making the request for a name change since we can far more easily allocate your new name to you, if it is not yet used. Usernames that have already been taken are listed here. For more information, please visit Changing username.
 * Alternatively, you can "abandon" the contributions under this username and create a new account, which is much faster and easier, especially if you have few or no edits.

Last, the automated software systems that prevent vandalism may have been activated, which can cause new account creation to be blocked also. If you have not acted in a deliberately inappropriate manner, please let us know if this happens, and we will deactivate the block as soon as possible. You may also appeal this username block by adding the text  or emailing the administrator who blocked you.
 * Another edit like this and you'll lose the privilege of editing this page to appeal your block (hint: change user name). Toddst1 (talk) 00:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I would recommend against unblocking unless this user promises to leave archives alone.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs  20:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've already done so in my original request to be unblocked. "Agreed, I understand what I was blocked for and I will stop modifying the ANI archive."    Now I would include all archives in the promise. Fhue (talk) 21:08, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know the term has offensive connotations since there are quite a few other users with the name. Yet you call me 'cholo' in the same breath. hmmm. ('Juancho' is a nickname in Mexico and i heard 'cholo' used jovially there as nomad, vagabond, trainhopper.) Fhue (talk) 03:25, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually I believe that 'cholo' is used as a racial pejorative. Crafty (talk) 03:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Cholo is one of those words that no English translation can adequately capture.  It may not be the equivalent of the "n-word", but it is also almost universily used derogatively... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * for the record, i still disagree with your characterization of it. i maintain it can be used without derogatory connotation. PrBeacon (talk) 21:07, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Name change
Thanks. Fhue (talk)

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. I don't understand what you have against me. I've applied for the name change but the process takes a week. Am I supposed to wait that long before I can start contributing again? Fhue (talk) 19:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You were expected to change your username before continuing editing. Now, you are required to do so. Toddst1 (talk) 19:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's clear. However, you didn't answer my question. Should I modify my name/sig to reflect the impending change? Perhaps something like this.. Fh..->Prbeacon (talk)
 * You should sign your posts with your username - the only one you have at the moment.   I'll unblock you if it would make you feel better, but you need to agree to wait until your name change comes through before you edit anything other than this page, your sandbox and pages related to your name change. Toddst1 (talk) 20:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you both, much appreciated. Fhue (talk) 01:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I still cannot edit: "currently unable to edit pages on Wikipedia due to an autoblock affecting your IP address" (my emphasis) Fhue (talk) 01:16, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. Fhue (talk) 02:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Just to let you know, this latest block and unblock is up for discussion; I acted rather hastily in unblocking you and consensus might develop against it, in which case you might again restricted from editing until your rename is complete. If you were to pick a different username that didn't require WP:USURP, it might help moot the issue more quickly: I note, for instance, that user:PrBeacon is available.  Mango juice talk 04:20, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed, I'd thought of that after getting the 2nd block from Toddst1 but I had already put in the usurp request so i wasnt sure if i could cancel that. Now I will see if i can. WP:Changing_username request "Original name deemed inappropriate, 2nd choice Prbeacon taken but not active -- usurp request submitted, now advised to try this variation."   Cheers. Fhue (talk) 04:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)