User talk:Premeditated Chaos/Archive 24

Regarding User:Chidgk1 and GAR closure
Hi, thanks a lot for closing Starship's GAR, it is very appreciated. However, you said that reasons that mirror those brought up at the GAR, again making it very clear that the GA criteria are not met, which are POV and prose issues. I can take care of making the text more clear and interesting, but what bugs me is the POV issue, which I could not figure how to solve it. What are your thoughts? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 07:01, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't close the GAR, Compassionate727 did. I disputed the original close and asked for it to be reopened. Here's the thing - and you're not going to like me very much for saying this - I think the article's issues are going to persist as long as you're the primary contributor. I just don't see a way around it. It's not just that you've struggled to acknowledge that valid criticism of him and his projects should be worked into the article. It's also continually been an issue for you to write the prose neutrally - your bias towards Musk and Starship colors the text positively in a way that is unencyclopedic. On top of that, I think you are less capable of writing clear and grammatically correct prose than you think you are. At all 3 FACs, basic correctness of the prose was a major concern, and it remains so. Even your short message here is awkwardly written, which tells me this is not an issue limited to article writing. I think you need to take a step back and honestly assess whether you have the capability to bring this article to GA/FA standards in English. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 14:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Honestly, even though I know that you are right it still hurts to read your comment. I don't know what to do here now... CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:49, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I think if you want to keep contributing, you should try doing so for topics you don't feel strongly about. It is possible to write about things you're a fan of (I've done it), but you have to be able to take a step back and include the criticism, and not everyone has an easy time doing so. You may also want to think about focusing on contributing in your native language - it's going to be a lot easier to write clean, crisp prose in a language you're natively fluent in.
 * If you want to continue contributing in English, I would suggest trying to seek out off-wiki resources for improving grammar and prose before trying to take anything back to GA/FA. If you do return to GA/FA, try doing so with a smaller, more stable article first; these are a lot easier to cover comprehensively and usually are easier to get through. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:28, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright, I will try to gather a team of editors so that we can compensate each other's weaknesses. This would include people who have never heard of Starship before, as well as those from GAR (like you!) I would also read great FA articles to build up my writing skill, particularly from SandyGeorgia's and Buidhe's. I hope that this "plan" would work out in the end... CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 17:03, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think you understand. I'm not suggesting ways for you to continue with this right now. I'm talking about you, specifically, stepping away from this article for a long time. Like, months.
 * You flat-out do not have the ability to do the job at this time given your devotion to Musk and limited capability with the English language. Your insistence on getting StarshipX to GA/FA is becoming a timesink to reviewers, who have tried to explain to you again and again that there are serious issues with the article. You haven't even acknowledged the serious sourcing issues pointed out at the GAR. How is a hypothetical team going to help when you don't acknowledge or understand the good faith criticism that's already been given to you in abundance? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 17:19, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Tornasi people article
Hello,

this is a current PROD set by you. Since, I have written this article anew. On Talk:Tornasi people, I have suggested a move as well as added information possibyl suitable for the article.Sarcelles (talk) 10:31, 24 March 2022 (UTC)


 * The problem is the sourcing for these assertions. Joshua Project is IMO not a reliable source since it's a missionary organization attempting to collate stats on people it hasn't converted yet. And Quora is definitely not reliable, given that it's a user-generated Q&A site. You need actual reliable sourcing if you want this article to remain on Wikipedia - think sources by academic scholars, or books sourced to those kinds of sources. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 14:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Requesting undeletion/access to article
Hi there! I noticed that you were the closing admin on Paddy Pimblett's AfD. Since the deletion, he's participated in 2 UFC fights and will definitely be in a 3rd, meeting WP:MMABIO. Would it be possible to have the contents of that page moved to somewhere accessible? I'd like to restore the page upon completion of his 3rd fight. Thanks! Thirty4 (talk) 16:44, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * there's already a fairly in-depth draft (more complete than the version I deleted) at Draft:Paddy Pimblett, you may want to pitch in on that. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:24, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Argie 15
Hi I see you have "proposed that this article be deleted" with respects to the article []. I realize it all comes down to a matter of opinion. I would like to object. My reasons are: From a sales add for one of his boats https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2016-dudley-dix-dh-550-catamaran-7864594/ "Revered design" yes it depends on your perspective. It was designed as a simple versatile DIY boat and not a race class boat; though its versatility is gaining it attention as a               RAID boat. After a typhoon destroyed a fleet of small fishing boats in Malaysia? Dudley donated the design to a relief group. This was done so they could quickly and simply rebuild their fleet. I would add this to the article but need more fact checking. The Argie 15 is a design that just keeps getting built, and really has replaced the original Wayfarer in design philosophy which has lost much of its utility in becoming a racing boat. Again does this merit an article on Wikipedia?
 * 1)   Designer Dudley Dix is notable in having won serval awards, i.e. "Paper Jet" and is often cited in trade journals.
 * 1)   The Argie 15 is a tabloid boat of the "Mirror" variety. A design published in a news paper to drive paper sale.

I raise these points for your consideration, I am building one right now so yes there is a bias. Wikipedia did help me find the boat, the article is small so I don't see the harm in keeping it. There is a lot of activity around the boat in the wooden boat building forums.

Have a great day. Simply a gecko on the wall — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wallgecko (talk • contribs) 18:26, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't find this compelling. I've taken it to articles for deletion. I mentioned this comment, but I invite you to comment there as well. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:35, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

RevDel of Max (cigarette)
Hi, thanks for pointing that out. I've adjusted the range to start from ; past there, it becomes unclear who's copying from who, so I think WP:PDEL is a safe assumption. Sunmist (talk) 09:26, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * That makes no sense, we can't revdel on a presumptive deletion. I'm fine with RD'ing to Matteo's 1200 byte diff, but going all the way back to 2009 on a pdel is a no-go for me. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 09:41, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't realize that. I've nominated it for deletion instead. Thank you! Sunmist (talk) 10:47, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably for the best, those refs are terrible (a not-uncommon situation for cigarette brands apparently - I took 3 to PROD already while going through tonight.) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

You've got mail
Hey PMC, I sent you an email - it's a bit of an urgent IRL situation, so would appreciate you getting back to me :) --SuperJew (talk) 05:02, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Mass proposed redirecting of The Wire character articles
Hi, you objected to my proposed deletion of Kima Greggs. I have now opened a thread to discuss redirecting this and a few dozen other articles I have also tagged: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fictional characters. I hope you can weigh in there if you are able. Long story short, I am saying there that I think most of the in-universe content of all these articles (which we agree are currently crappy articles&mdash;the question is whether the topics of them are potentially article-worthy) needs to go, but I think it's worth seeking input about whether that should be done by wholesale blanking and redirecting these articles, or by keeping them but deleting most of their content and turning them into stubs with a bunch of cleanup tags on the top. 61.18.156.43 (talk) 03:30, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not invested in keeping any of the articles on minor characters; I agree those probably ought to be RD'd to a character list. However, a great deal of critical analysis has been written about The Wire, and I wouldn't be surprised if all the major characters came out with a clear GNG pass. Kima in particular has a lot of critical commentary related to her identity as a black lesbian cop that goes well beyond trivial mentions. Cracking the Wire (2022) discusses her importance and ongoing importance 15+ years after the show ended, this is a decent amount of coverage, here we have discussion of her queer identity, here are several pages that argue she's the only female character in the show with any significant development,, , , , and that's just GBooks, not even GScholar, JSTOR, Project Muse, or the rest of the WMF Library. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:48, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Marika Sila
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Kima Greggs
Regarding your revert here: I am not disputing notability (in fact I already acknowledged elsewhere that I accept your argument that the subject is notable). I am putting a tag because the article needs sources and a claim of notability added – as already established in our previous discussion, we both agree that, even if the subject is notable, the article is crappy and needs to be improved. And that's what the cleanup tag is for. As the cleanup tag says, it's a notice informing editors and readers that someone needs to add sources to demonstrate the notability of the topic.

Do you have a more appropriate cleanup tag to suggest? 61.18.156.43 (talk) 01:37, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The notability tag is for articles that don't appear to meet the GNG. We both agree that the article meets the GNG. Rather than fighting over maintenance tags, maybe you should consider contributing some content to the article, since the sources clearly exist. It's fine if you don't want to, but aggressively trying to strip content and add tags seems like a waste of time when improvement is clearly possible. In all fairness, I'm guilty of not improving it immediately either - but I'm dealing with some other projects at the moment and don't split my focus well. I'll get around to it. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 05:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to "fight over maintenance tags", I'm trying to improve the encyclopedia. I have no interest in doing the work to rewrite and condense the plot summary (partly because it's been so long that I watched the show that I can't really remember Kima's arc and thus I'm not qualified to directly fix the article, at least not without doing research of my own first which I am not currently willing to do), but putting on a tag that alerts others to what needs to be done is an easy first step and it's not unconstructuve.
 * Look, we both agree that the article needs improvement and that its current state is not good, so that means there is nothing wrong with putting a tag on it. Your only objection to that is that you don't like the specific tag that I used to indicate that.
 * Your criticizing me for "fighting over maintenance tags" is, as you've already noted, patently hypocritical. I could just as well criticize you for "fighting over maintenance tags" (if you didn't like my tag you could have improved the article rather than just removing the tag! see, that's almost exactly the same criticism you just made of me). But my point is that criticisms like that would not be productive, so it would be great if neither of us waste time making those kinds of criticisms anymore.
 * I don't know where that kind of condescending behaviour and calling me "aggressive" comes from, because at every step of the way I have been open to your suggestions and trying to implement them. When I suggested prod and you disagreed, I listened to your point and agreed that the article should be improved rather than redirected. When I removed the whole plot synopsis and you disagreed, I listened to your point and put a tag there instead of just removing everything. So as far as I can tell, I'm the one who's been trying to improve the encyclopedia (note that, contrary to what you imply in your message, stripping content sometimes is a way of improving an article, when that content is content that does not belong in the article) whereas you're the one who's just tendentiously reverting almost everything I do and then leaving me an insulting message about it.
 * So how about instead of that bullshit, we actually try to do something productively, which is what I thought we had been doing before? I'm going to put another cleanup tag on the article [different from the one I used before] because we both agree that the article needs to be cleaned up. If you don't like the cleanup tag I put there, you are welcome to suggest a better one, or suggest a reason why you think the article shouldn't have any cleanup tag. 61.18.156.43 (talk) 06:41, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Continuing to jam notability maintenance tags into an article that clearly meets GNG is aggressive. Jamming a second plot summary maintenance tag into the article is aggressive. Stripping the entire plot summary instead of trimming it to comply with the MOS is aggressive, and not at all an improvement. If you don't feel able to trim the plot summary down to a reasonable state, you could be adding content from the numerous sources I linked on the talk page, or adding to the source dump. Instead, you write this enormous talk page message and put zero work into the article. I have a track record of content, and I'll get to Kima when my focus swings that way. I'd be happy to see you working on improving the article in the meantime, should you wish to do so. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 07:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems like you are being deliberately obtuse in obsessing over one little tag. We both agreed that the article needs work to show why its subject is notable, and you are nitpicking over the fact that I accidentally chose the wrong tag out of this gigantic morass of hundreds of tags? Any reasonable person can see how two of us ended up interpreting the tags in different ways (I focused on the second sentence, "please help to demonstrate the notability of the topic", whereas you focused on the first sentence, "the topic of this article may not meet the GNG"&mdash;perhaps your interpretation is the right one, but I think you can easily see how someone in my shoes might have accidentally arrived the other interpretation), so fussing about the fact that I chose a slightly less appropriate tag than the better tag seems stupid.
 * It's also not just about the plot summary. I pointed out two problems with the article: (1) the plot summary is overly long and detailed, and (2) the article needs to explain why the subject is notable. I'm pretty sure we don't disagree on either of these points. I'm also 100% sure there is nothing wrong with adding tags to indicate that an article has a problem. (WP:TC has some guidelines on how to add or not add tags, and I have not violated any of them other than arguably adding two tags for one problem&mdash;but as I said above, I think the overly long plot summary and the lack of content explaining notability are two separate problems.) So I don't know why you're being a jerk about it. And by the way, saying essentially "I have a good record of creating content and I have plans to clean up this article at some unspecified future time so you are not allowed to mess around with my article in the meantime" (which is how I understand the second-to-last sentence of your above message) is stonewalling and unconstructive. Anyway I am done arguing with you about this; feel free to say or do whatever you want but I am not going to reply here anymore and I am not going to edit that argument anymore. 61.18.156.43 (talk) 07:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds great. Looking forward to seeing your constructive contributions on the page in the future. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 07:48, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter
Nice work. Should be a featured picture. BusterD (talk) 16:25, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I wish it could be, but it's fair use :( I'm stoked I managed to find an image though, most red carpet fashion pics are Getty or some other picture agency and can't be used under fair use. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * That sucks; I missed that. Means another image will have to be on the mainpage next to the DYK. What a tragedy. Nice coverage, terrific story. I can't be the only editor who feels that way. Glad to see the work at DYK. Where was Shankbone when we needed him? BusterD (talk) 20:30, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Aah, I know, right? I would die to be able to put a proper photo of the dress on the front page. Felt the same about eight-ball jacket when it hit DYK. It's just not the same without a big bold picture. (As to your edit summary - I feel that! I am not myself a fashion plate, I just like looking at them :P) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 21:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

File:Inside Higher Ed logo.png
Hello! You deleted a revision of File:Inside Higher Ed logo.png under WP:F5. However, I believe that this image qualifies for PD-textlogo, and as such is in the public domain. Would you be able to undelete the revision? Thanks! HouseBlastertalk 19:15, 23 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the delay - all done! &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 06:24, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries - WP:NODEADLINES, right? Thanks you so much! HouseBlastertalk 11:44, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Guerillero -- Guerillero (talk) 11:21, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter
The article Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Guerillero -- Guerillero (talk) 11:21, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter
The article Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Guerillero -- Guerillero (talk) 09:01, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Beer!
Ms. Chaos, can you please take a look at this FAC if you have the time -- Guerillero  Parlez Moi 22:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Paddy Pimlett
Hi PMC, you were closer of the AfD for Paddy Pimblett, one of the reasons given was that it did not meet GNG. Since then the fighter has received considerable attention in the national press, including an in depth interview in the Guardian (some examples listed below)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/20/paddy-pimblett-and-molly-mccann-light-up-london-on-thrilling-night https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/19/fighting-for-liverpool-paddy-the-baddy-and-meatball-mollys-ufc-takeover https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/ufc/paddy-pimblett-baddy-ufc-interview-b2042934.html https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/mma/paddy-pimblett-weight-loss-ufc-26818542 https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/mma/paddy-pimblett-ufc-conor-mcgregor-26490956 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/mixed-martial-arts/58429273 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/mixed-martial-arts/60852236

What would be the procedure to get this reversed?

Boynamedsue (talk) 06:54, 2 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey, I read Cassiopeia's response to the same question at their talk page and I generally agree with their assessment of the sources. Might be best to just wait until he passes NMMA off that UFC fight in July. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 14:43, 2 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the response, I think Cassiopeia's answer was pretty flawed. The Guardian and Independent articles all provide significant coverage and are impeccably reliable sources. The BBC one too. GNG is clear that sources do not have to be solely about the topic of the article if they provide significant coverage. What are the appeal procedures in this case? Boynamedsue (talk) 20:47, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Per GNG under the bold point "Sources," "Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability." The two Guardian sources by the same author are regarded as one source for notability purposes. The Independent article is mostly an interview, which I don't weigh too heavily when it comes to notability. That being said, I'm not the be-all end-all and neither is Cass; you're free to add those sources to the draft and submit it through AfC for assessment as a normal process. (Actually on reflection, you're experienced enough as an editor that I'm comfortable telling saying that you can add the sources and move it to main from draft on your own recognizance - AfC is not actually mandatory. You run the risk of someone taking it to AfD again, of course, but that's a risk we all run with.) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 22:01, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Brilliant, thanks a lot for the advice. I will look at the article when I have some time over the weekend and take it from there. Boynamedsue (talk) 05:45, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter
— Maile (talk) 00:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Requesting Undeletion of AGSB University
The AGSB University page that was recently deleted was wrongly deleted. The university page is not intended for any promotional means but purely for informative use. Different third-party sources were mentioned in the article of AGSB University and more have been found online. Furthermore as was mentioned in the article, the American Graduate School of Business rebranded as the "American University in Switzerland" Would it be possible to restore the page and change the name to "American University in Switzerland"? Other references linking to external sources include:
 * https://avdep.ch/ecole/american-university-in-switzerland/
 * https://www.masterstudies.com/Master-Degree-in-International-Business-Administration/Switzerland/American-University-in-Switzerland/
 * https://www.tiffin.edu/news/tu-collaborates-american-university-switzerland/
 * https://www.swiss-schools.ch/en/vsp-mitglieder
 * https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/american-university-switzerland
 * https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/american-university-switzerland
 * https://www.iata.org/en/training/courses/partner-network/american-university-in-switzerland/146052 — Preceding unsigned comment added by SwissTraveller (talk • contribs) 13:55, 16 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The page was not wrongly deleted, it was deleted in accordance with consensus. It was obviously promotional and created by a user with a conflict of interest - unless you are really trying to tell me User:Austeam didn't stand for "American University in Switzerland Team"? Those sources are either not reliable or not independent, so they do not constitute significant coverage for the purpose of establishing notability. I will not be undeleting the page. Finally, since you almost certainly have a conflict of interest yourself, if you intend to continue editing this topic, please go read the COI policy I linked earlier in this comment and make the appropriate declaration on your user page. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:56, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Armadillo shoe
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Armadillo shoe you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Trainsandotherthings -- Trainsandotherthings (talk) 22:01, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Armadillo shoe
—Kusma (talk) 00:02, 22 May 2022 (UTC) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 04:53, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Armadillo shoe
The article Armadillo shoe you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Armadillo shoe for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Trainsandotherthings -- Trainsandotherthings (talk) 11:21, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:05, 28 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reminder Gerda! Cheers! :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 22:04, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you today for Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter (below), introduced: "Actor Billy Porter's star had been rising since his 2018 breakout role in Pose. He spent the 2018/2019 awards season tearing up the red carpet, culminating in the two fashion moments that stamped his name on fashion history for good: the silver suit with fuchsia-lined cape worn at the 2019 Golden Globes, followed up by the black velvet tuxedo ball gown he wore to the 2019 Oscars. The tuxedo gown is widely regarded as a groundbreaking moment in Oscars history – he is the first man to have worn a gown on the red carpet – and it remains one of Porter's most memorable looks."! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:46, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks ! I had a lot of fun writing this one. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 06:48, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Del.
It was not closed and someone removed the edit. The discussion is now closed. It is improper to removed edits from talk pages as you know.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 03:44, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * , the history of the page clearly indicates that the closure was made on May 28 and your edit was dated May 30. This is the state of the page prior to your edit: . Please explain to me how that discussion does not look closed to you. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 05:29, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Didn't mean to edit it after it closed. Is three days usually how long a discussion lasts?Pictureperfect2 (talk) 07:32, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If you didn't mean to edit it after it was closed, fine, but don't accuse people of censorship and improper behavior when they correct your error. As for the length of the discussion, it's a bit atypical, but the consensus was overwhelming. Discussions can be closed early if they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of going another way - see WP:SNOW. If you have an issue with Sdkb's close, you are free to discuss it with them, or to take it to deletion review to ask for it to be reopened, but given how clear the consensus was, I don't think it will be. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 07:41, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Indian census
I see that you have noticed the the page that used to work is no longer there. I was pointed to this page instead, but I'm afraid I forget by whom. It doesn't seem to have as much information as the old page, but is still useful as it's part of the official census site. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hm, that is useful in terms of checking the existence of places, but as those results can't be individually cited the way the original census site could, it's not of that much help for our referencing articles. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 22:44, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Eucalyptus × tinghaensis
Hello Premeditated Chaos,

Thanks for your work on this. Afraid we have an edit conflict, and I am going to overwrite your change to the article. I've added a bit more to the article, and can't find any mention of the hybrid at the "WetlandInfo" new website. Hammer me if you think I'm wrong about this. (Agree with your add to the Eucalyptus caliginosa article.) Gderrin (talk) 22:25, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Nah, I'm no expert, I just toddle around de-orphaning taxonomy articles because they're usually easy targets :) Your edits are much more thorough than mine. Cheers! &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 22:39, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

removal of episode list
Hi there, I'm still fairly new here (although this account is a sockpuppet for safety/privacy reasons). You removed a section I added here: as WP:NOTDIRECTORY. (I re-added without realizing, when I couldn't figure out why my simultaneous edit wasn't saving, and haven't had time to respond until now, sorry.)

I don't understand the issue with the (tidy and organized, I think) list of related podcast episodes. All episodes listed are directly related to the disappearance of this girl (20 years ago, next week). Wikipedia has plenty of lists of episodes of things. The list is non-exhaustive; only some of the more notable, relevant contributions to public information about the case. Each one included provides further useful information to the reader. I could rewrite it in paragraph form listing the points of view and information from each episode but it would be more difficult to read.

Podcasts are especially relevant to this girl's disappearance since popularity of podcasts have driven the police to take action on the case after 18 years, leading to more ground searches, and the worldwide popularity of these podcasts are likely to lead to further action and/or expose a lack of investigative response. Podcasts also led to a large reward being offered on the case. Inclusion of an episode list on Wikipedia will surely further increase the attention to the case... maybe leading to the case being solved and a murderer being convicted... this is especially important right now at this 20 year milestone as the case is about to get a lot more attention.

Also, maybe you could give me a break? Maybe I'm pushing the standards a bit on formatting and such but it's for a good cause and the article is likely to have an impact, and hurts nobody except, potentially, those responsible for the girl's disappearance (which could also lead to positive publicity for Wikipedia). I'll assume I'm okay to re-add the section now, especially since it's time-sensitive due to upcoming events and attention to the case. Any advice or edits you have on how to make the article easier to read while still including all important information) would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time in keeping Wikipedia tidy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArielMais (talk • contribs)
 * Going to copy this to the talk page of the article where I started the discussion so any other article watchers will be able to see it. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:43, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Naomi de Ruiter
Hi, was wondering if you would consider restoring Articles for deletion/Naomi de Ruiter to draftspace? The author has a book coming out later this month and I think there's a good chance will meet gng following the book's release. I don't want to lose all the citations I found previously. Thank you for your consideration! GreenVolvox (talk) 21:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Done, see Draft:Naomi_de_Ruiter. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 22:09, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! GreenVolvox (talk) 00:04, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Air Force Integrated Residential Housing, Mazandaran
It appears that this housing may have been associated with Iran Air Force heaquarters or Mehrabad International Airport/air base, which is very much joint civil-military (there are fighter squadrons operating out of that airport). Tehran Province is square against Mazandaran Province. It may be a candidate for merger to the Mehrabad article if there were sources provided. Were there sources provided? Buckshot06 (talk) 03:03, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Just this, and it doesn't tell you much more than what's in the article: . I don't think it's safe to assume without better sourcing. (You'll have to search for "مجتمع مكانهائ مسكوني نيروئ هوائي") &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:18, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter scheduled for TFA
This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 8 August 2022. Please check that the article needs no amendments. Feel free to amend the draft blurb, which can be found at Today's featured article/August 8, 2022, or to make comments on other matters concerning the scheduling of this article at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/August 2022. I suggest that you watchlist Main Page/Errors from the day before this appears on Main Page. Thanks and congratulations on your work. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:39, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism on Blue Gucci dress of Harry Styles
Hello! sorry, I am still inexperienced so I thought I'd put this here. Lily32241 who is editing on Blue Gucci dress of Harry Styles has a long history of following me around and deleting content related to politically charged or ambiguous issues surrounding Harry Styles, particularly queerness but also in this example all references to race. It's like the only substantial edits she makes outside of charts. Is there a way I can find an admin who has knowledge of Styles and the conversation around him? I have had the experience before of an admin not understanding a lot of conversations around him are very charged. H-influenzae (talk) 12:47, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Student Organization of Nairobi University
Hey, PMC,

I was looking over today's AFD discussion log and noticed that this article has already been recreated since the time you deleted it this morning. I've tagged it CSD G4 but sometimes G4s can sit around for a long time before they are reviewed so I thought I'd tell you. Hope you are beating the heat these days! Liz Read! Talk! 23:10, 20 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Soman's attitude towards deletion pisses me off - "unfounded discussion" indeed. They could have commented there if they liked, pushed for a HEYMANN, but instead they pull a snarky stunt like that. However, it's not eligible for G4 - the material in the new version is substantively different from the deleted version. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:17, 20 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I'll untag the article then. Liz Read! Talk! 01:14, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Log/2022 July 17
Hey, PMC,

I'm surprised to see you close AFD discussions that haven't been relisted and don't hit their 7 day mark until tomorrow. I know there are some admins who close discussions an hour or two early but I usually only see a whole day early when I wander over to TFD where they seem to close deletion discussions whenever the mood strikes them, 7 day waiting period be damned. Just a little surprised. But considering that I was almost alone checking the AFD log for July 16th, I'm glad to see other admins closing discussions. Project space on Wikipedia seems to empty out on the weekends.

Hope you are staying cool this weekend, wherever you are at. It's been okay here but it supposed to get over 100F next week. Liz Read! Talk! 04:59, 24 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh oops, my timestamps were showing nomination 7 days ago, and usually XfDcloser kicks up a fuss if it thinks you're closing something early. Well, consensus for the ones I closed was pretty clear so hopefully that's not a problem for anyone.
 * We had a little rain the other day but it's supposed to be hotter this week (blegh). Cheers! &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 05:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

GANs
Hi. Would you GA review Federico Gatti and Fabio Miretti? I had nominated them in April but they haven't been seen yet. Dr Salvus 16:18, 27 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I have very little interest in football and footballers. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Floe Edge
Gatoclass (talk) 12:03, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Undeletion Request For Jeremy Konner
Hi in 2017 you deleted Jeremy Konner for notability concerns Articles for deletion/Jeremy Konner. I believe it should now be reinstated because "significant new information has come to light." He's been nominated for seven primetime Emmys, six for producing and one for directing the show he co-created and directed, Drunk History which ran for 6 seasons. He recently created and directed the Netflix children's TV show Waffles + Mochi produced by the Barack and Michelle Obama and starring former first lady Michelle Obama. Here is Konner's IMDB (which I know is not a good enough source, will link to better sources below)

Full disclosure, yes I know Konner which would mean a COI, however, I am just trying to reinstate the page now that many years have passed and significant new information has come to light.

Drunk History:
 * https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/press-play-with-madeleine-brand/drunk-history-and-one-prisoners-story-of-solitary-confinement/the-funny-world-of-drunk-history
 * https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/07/23/the-healing-buzz-of-drunk-history
 * https://ew.com/tv/all-the-shows-unrenewed-covid-19/
 * https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/drunk-history-canceled-at-comedy-central-4048407/

Waffles + Mochi:
 * https://www.indiewire.com/2021/03/waffles-mochi-review-michelle-obama-new-netflix-show-1234623642/
 * https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/04/05/michelle-obamas-lesson-to-kids-you-are-what-you-watch
 * https://www.newsweek.com/waffles-mochi-netflix-michelle-obama-show-1576365
 * https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/03/waffles-and-mochi-michelle-obama-netflix

Emmys:
 * https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/emmys-2020-nominations-complete-list-1234715939/
 * https://www.emmys.com/bios/jeremy-konner

[List of linked Wiki pages removed as they are meaningless clutter when assessing notability] LimabeanJK (talk) 17:35, 6 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Not a single one of those sources goes into any depth about Konner as a person, so I will not be undeleting at this time. (I have removed the list of wiki pages as it is meaningless when assessing notability, and cluttered the page pointlessly). &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 19:10, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Undeletion of Jonathan Henick
Hi there, I saw that you deleted the page for Jonathan Henick, an American diplomat. Considering that he is now the Senate-confirmed ambassador to Uzbekistan, I thought that it would be a good time to bring it back. Obviously, more sources can be added as time goes on, so if you can bring the page back that would be great. If not, I can just make a new one if its easier. Thank you in advance for your response. Losipov (talk) 20:35, 6 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Ambassadors are not default notable under WP:NPOL. I'm not overturning a clear and recent delete consensus without significant coverage. If you think significant coverage is likely to be forthcoming, feel free to work on the page in draftspace at Draft:Jonathan Henick. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:42, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Eight-ball jacket
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Eight-ball jacket you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Most Comfortable Chair -- The Most Comfortable Chair (talk) 04:41, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

TFA
Congratulations on having the Black Christian Siriano gown of Billy Porter article on the front page! Aoba47 (talk) 16:55, 8 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks Aoba! Next stop, Cher at the 1986 Oscars, if I can get back around to it :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:17, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Eight-ball jacket
The article Eight-ball jacket you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Eight-ball jacket for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Most Comfortable Chair -- The Most Comfortable Chair (talk) 04:20, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Eight-ball jacket
The article Eight-ball jacket you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Eight-ball jacket for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Most Comfortable Chair -- The Most Comfortable Chair (talk) 11:22, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks most kindly for the review and the barnstar! &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 04:23, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

"Village Green" FAC
Hey PMC. It didn't take me too long – "Village Green" is now up as a FAC, so I thought I'd ping you like you requested at the GA review. I've made some changes, mostly by adding sources to analyze the lyrics. Cheers.  Tkbrett  (✉) 15:15, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Commented! Cheers :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 18:15, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Board of Trustees election
Thank you for supporting the NPP initiative to improve WMF support of the Page Curation tools. Another way you can help is by voting in the Board of Trustees election. The next Board composition might be giving attention to software development. The election closes on 6 September at 23:59 UTC. View candidate statement videos and Vote Here. MB 04:00, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

User:MauriceHoward
Hi, on 11 June you went on the talk page of User:MauriceHoward to ask them to stop adding and removing spaces to no apparent purpose. They’re still doing it and almost their entire edit history seems to consist of this. They just did it again on an article on my watchlist. Thanks Mccapra (talk) 06:51, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * PBlocked from main until they get the message. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:55, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Per earlier Teahouse-discussion
I guess I should mention Draft_talk:Skeeter_Reece to you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Hossein Kamalabadi
Hello, please convert Hossein Kamalabadi's draft into an article. Thanks Ostad10 (talk) 18:22, 10 September 2022 (UTC)


 * No &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:02, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * See WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Samansadeghy. S0091 (talk) 19:23, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, I for one am shocked - shocked, I say. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 21:40, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I know, unbelievable! Ha! S0091 (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 13
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited The Tale of Ginger and Pickles, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Tomcat and Hen.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:04, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

FAC review
Hi PMC, hope you're doing well. If you've got an opportunity, would you be able to take a look at the FAC for Monaco: What's Yours Is Mine? I'm struggling to find reviewers at the moment, so it would be greatly appreciated. Anarchyte ( talk ) 14:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey @Anarchyte, I would really like to but I'm dealing with some IRL stuff right now and I don't know when I can commit to on-wiki stuff. I'll try to take a look when I can. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * There's no worries. I hope whatever you're dealing with goes well. Don't feel obliged to take a look if you can't. Regards, Anarchyte  ( talk ) 03:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Anarchyte, good news, it was not actually as bad as it appeared. I'll take a look within the next few days :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 02:32, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm telling you to run again
I'm basically not around anymore, but you should run for ArbCom again. Content editor who isn't particularly involved with any of the cliques, even while active on Discord/IRC. Would be a firm positive. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:37, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I appreciate the vote of confidence, but alas, I'm still not tired of being inconsequential :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 07:34, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Hello PMC
Hello PMC! I hope you’re doing well!

Names of Georgia is being vandalized by unknown IPs for couple of days now. Can you kindly semi-protect for a while? Best regards, An emperor /// Ave 00:25, 20 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey Emperor, I've semi'd it for a week, let me know it it resumes once that expires. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 01:39, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Many thanks PMC! Regards, An emperor /// Ave 11:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

October 23
Hi Ma/Sir, how are you doing? I’m contacting you in regards to Draft:Snazzy the Optimist that was deleted via AFD. Being that i am the subject of this article, i figured I might throw in my opinion-- though I have no editing history and a sock. i taught that i have enough nearly-famous projects and have participated in famous events, such as wining a rap battle, catching the attention of a president, have written songs for some notable artists, have charted on iTunes chart, have been recognized by some of the famous people, such as Davido’s manager, Asa Asika mentioned me as an artist to watch out for in an interview with MTV Base Africa e.t.c. which added up, do warrant an article. However, i made the draft a stub because as i grow in my career more things would be added but I’m not the one to make the decision, only admins can now. i will really appreciate restoration of the draft so it can be worked on and be submitted for a review, for other editors or page reviewers to decide if it would be included in mainspace or not. I would provide some sources below. Thank you so much Sir/Ma and do have a great day.


 * 1) https://pmnewsnigeria.com/2022/07/17/meet-snazzy-the-optimist-musical-optimist-pushing-afropop-beyond/?amp=1
 * 2) https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/08/my-mothers-dream-for-me-was-to-study-medicine-snazzy-the-optimist/amp/
 * 3) https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/nigerian-star-on-the-rise-snazzy-the-optimist-has-released-his-single-off-his-debut/62bx995
 * 4) https://lamboxtra.com/meet-snazzy-the-optimist/
 * 5) https://www.rareflavr.com/rareflavr/interview/snazzytheoptimist
 * 6) https://ra.co/dj/snazzytheoptimist/biography
 * 7) https://theregularnews.com.ng/snazzy-the-optimist-meet-nigerian-born-artiste-who-caught-the-attention-of-south-african-president-jacob-zuma/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=heylink.me
 * 8) https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Snazzy-the-Optimist/147733/
 * 9) https://www.jambase.com/show/snazzy-the-optimist-hard-rock-cafe-lagos-20220423?utm_medium=social&utm_source=heylink.me
 * 10) https://drummrafrica.com/snazzy-the-optimist-releases-seluna/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=heylink.me

Tehazb (talk) 04:40, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * If you're important, someone else will write about you. And won't that feel better than paying people to write it, and begging and fighting with us to keep it? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 06:02, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Premeditated Chaos I’m sorry that I had to write it my self which I didn’t know about then and later found out that is highly prohibited in the Wiki community. And Sir/ma, i have never paid anyone to include me on here sir/ma, i did it myself thinking it would work out. I’m here to request the undeletion of the draft so that any editor who would be interested or who has come across me would work on it since it’s extended confirmed access. I promise you that i will never write it myself again or pay anyone to write it for me. I will really appreciate if you could please undelete the draft since reliable sources have covered the subject since deleted. Thank you so much sir/ma. Tehazb (talk) 10:30, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * If someone is interested, it will be better for them to write their own draft from scratch rather than try to salvage the version that was deleted. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 11:14, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you so much Sir/ma. I really appreciate Tehazb (talk) 16:38, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Montecristo No. 4
I mean, if you think merge is the way forward then why start a potentially divisive AFD? There is a process for proposing merges you could have used, which is much less likely to be divisive. Or you could have just been BOLD and done it yourself. SpinningSpark 09:20, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I assumed you would have reverted me. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 09:59, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have if it was a genuine merge rather than deletion by redirect. My aim is always to preserve information, not pages per se.  Or if you had evidence that the existing page was lies and nonsense. SpinningSpark</b> 10:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There is nothing worth preserving in the article's poorly-sourced present form, and I don't see you adding any reliable sources. As I said - I assumed you would have reverted me, and I was right. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 11:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Complete list of digital CCG
Hello!

I'm planning to produce a youtube video series about the history of digital CCGs. I'll cover them chronologically and intend to go through as many of them as possible.

On that light, the only list I was able to find was this one List of digital collectible card games and you were a colloaborator.

Do you, by any chance, have a more compreensive list or some titles that are missing there? I ask this because only entries with a wikipedia page can go in there. I imagina that there are lots of them that are missing.

If you by any chance have it, I would really appreciate that you would send it to me.

Thanks in advance,

Tobimaro TobimaroGames (talk) 16:58, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't, I'm sorry. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:23, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Hello
Hello, PMC.

Could please give me a copy of this article?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Comparison_of_proxifiers

Thank you 150.129.140.78 (talk) 23:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I can, but I need somewhere to send it. If you create an account I can email it to you via the "email this user" feature; you won't have to publicly give me your email address in that case. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:27, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Apologies
Sorry I made you feel uncomfortable (and possibly TNT). I should have sent a private message instead. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:46, 1 November 2022 (UTC)


 * No need to apologize, I know it was in good faith. I just think it was worded a little awkwardly in a way that I think would have made it uncomfortable for TNT to answer publicly. A friendly DM would probably have been better. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:53, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Deletion of 1911-12 FC Barcelona season
Hi! I believe that you incorrectly closed the deletion discussion for this article as delete. While all participants supported deletion, they did so in opposition to policies linked in the discussion. The proposer explicitly mentioned Fails WP:NSEASONS [...], but WP:NSEASONS says Individual season articles for top-level professional teams are highly likely to meet Wikipedia notability requirements. Considering that year FC Barcelona won the national cup competition and went third in their regional league, it is highly likely that the season would be especially notable for a top level professional team. — Ixtal ( T / C ) &#8258; Non nobis solum. 15:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Like everything else in NSPORTS, NSEASONS is subordinate to GNG. "Likely" does not mean "certain". Is there significant prose coverage of the season available? If you can show some, I'm happy to undelete. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 21:12, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm currently in exam seasons, but I'll find some sources once I'm done (in like a week or two). Hope you enjoy your weekend and that it brings you rest ^u^ — Ixtal ( T / C ) &#8258; Non nobis solum. 12:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply, no rush. Hope your weekend was good as well :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 01:26, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi! PMC
If you remember, I once requested you for deletion of the article Su Li-yang. The subject seems to have enough notability now to have a standalone article, so I kindly request you to please restore it. I will be working on that page. Thankyou. <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 14:44, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * As a heads-up before I do the undelete, all sports players are required to meet WP:GNG now in addition to any WP:NSPORTS criteria. Are you confident that Su Li-yang meets the GNG? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 19:13, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

I am pretty sure it does, and I will be working on it. <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 19:37, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Is there something wrong? I mean, why would I even request if it doesn't pass the notability standards. Am I missing something here? <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 04:47, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I misunderstood your message to mean that you would be working on confirming that and was waiting for you to post sources. I prefer not to undelete things without sources indicating notability. If Li-yang meets the GNG, it should be easy for you to post a couple of sources to confirm that. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 15:03, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

No worries, I felt it was taking a long time so I requested elsewhere and got my job done. Thankyou. <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 16:14, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Undeletion Request For One Young World
Hi, I would like to have the opportunity to edit the wikipedia page of One Young World. The summit is globally important, many global leaders attend the summit annually. Please let me edit it properly. I am working in the wikipedia pages of charities, activists, humanitarians, some people in the entertainment industry, etc. Unproper citations were added, but the charity has proper recognition to have a wikipedia page. Librarian887 (talk) 16:50, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Per the big blue banner at the top of the page, when requesting undeletion, please provide sources. Significant coverage in reliable sources only. No press releases, trivial mentions, or interviews. I will not be doing the research for you and I will not be responding unless sources are posted. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 19:15, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Some articles about the summit in general. There are countless articles talking about famous people giving speeches an advocating for humanitarian causes at the summit, but I wanted to bring something about the basic. I can continue searching but I promise that I will do a fair job writing the page, just the vanity fair ones are strong enough to describe the summit, and there are good press to describe the annual venues.... Librarian887 (talk) 06:27, 10 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Vogue. Title: Inside One Young World, London’s Game-Changing Summit For The Next Generation Of Activists https://www.vogue.co.uk/news/bc/one-young-world-summit-2019
 * Not independent - right at the top it says "IN PARTNERSHIP WITH One Young World"
 * VANITY FAIR. TITLE:One Young World's Sphere of Influence - Vanity Fair https://www.vanityfair.com/london/2021/07/one-young-world-summit-2021
 * At the top it says "VANITY FAIR SUPPORTS ONE YOUNG WORLD", and later on it reads "For the third time, Vanity Fair presents the Global Goals List in association with One Young World." so I do not feel this is an independent source
 * A World of Good - Vanity Fair https://www.vanityfair.com/london/2020/02/one-young-world-summit-2019
 * Same as above - "Now, for the second time, Vanity Fair is launching the Global Goals List in association with One Young World."
 * Elle Magazine. Title: The Young World Summit 2022: What To Expect From The Event, Including Speech From Meghan Markle https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/culture/a41079518/one-young-world-summit-2022/
 * Actually independent coverage
 * Loreal. Title: 10th Edition Of One Young World, The Global Forum For Young Leaders https://www.loreal.com/en/articles/science-and-technology/10th-edition-of-one-young-world-the-global-forum-for-young-leaders/
 * Not independent - L'Oreal is sponsoring delegates to the conference, and this is a corporate press release on it
 * Olympics. Title:IOC Young Leaders spread the Olympic message at One Young World Summit https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-young-leaders-spread-the-olympic-message-at-one-young-world-summit
 * Same as L'Oreal - press release from a delegate sender
 * The sun Title: SUMMIT GOING ON What is the One Young World summit and how is Meghan Markle involved? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10190718/meghan-markle-one-young-world-summit-ceremony/
 * The Sun is a tabloid whose use was deprecated in 2019 - please click that link for details on why
 * https://blueandgreentomorrow.com/economy/exclusive-interview-ella-robertson-one-young-world-international/
 * I specifically said "no interviews"

So far you have one suitable source, the Elle magazine coverage. Everything else is not independent coverage. Please read our definition of independent sourcing before posting any further sources. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 15:32, 10 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I think the one who needs to read OUR definition of independent sourcing is you and also rethink about the context I am going to respect your opinion but the Vanity Fair article is not promotion, and these are not press releases sent by participants you don't understand how it works, big companies send their young employees to the summit so they can improve their leadership skills, when they are back this companies allow them to talk about it and they share their opinion, but they are corporate based so I understand that. Where does wikipedia says that an interview from a reliable source is not accepted ?? --Librarian887 (talk) 03:30, 11 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I took my time reading everything before proposing to you the Undeletion Request, I will continue searching from more sources but some can be used as a complement.--Librarian887 (talk) 04:16, 11 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Vanity fair is a reliable source and is supporting this organization, what can we do about it ? "VANITY FAIR SUPPORTS ONE YOUNG WORLD" well vanity fair also want to create Sustainable Development that's all that I see here, read the article, at lest this one it does not say in partnership or sponsored so. --Librarian887 (talk) 04:16, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't say Vanity Fair was promotion. I said it was not independent coverage, and it isn't - it's created "in association with One Young World". That's blatantly not independent coverage. I'm not interested in arguing with you about this any further. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 04:23, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Article Luke Patel
Requesting un redirecting of this page, it was requested for deletion by a personal vendetta. The page was redirected to the professional team this individual represented List of Durham UCCE & MCCU players you will see on that page every other player has a link to their page. Re directing/ deletion of this account is damaging to the individual involved for no reason other than jealousy. I tried to undo the redirect request but it was over rided by yourself thank you. Lukeyzero (talk) 15:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Accusing the AfD nominator of jealousy and having a personal vendetta is a strong thing to say - do you have any proof of that? From what I can see, the nominator sent a number of articles about cricketers to AfD around that time, which suggests this is not personal, but related to the subject matter.
 * I have to ask - do you have a personal stake in this, given the wonderful coincidence of your account name with the first name of the cricketer in question and the fact that your edits focus almost solely on him and his family? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 15:27, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi thanks for your reply

I apologise with opening with that, there was a more prudent way to go about this based on the facts that I should have mentioned. I am happy to be honest with you also, I am the article in questions brother and we have been told by the person that they tried to have the account deleted, it was in the early hours of the morning when they had been drinking. If you look at the revision history, there has been several times were other users have had to modify the page after several derogatory comments were posted, the person/ team in question were also responsible at this time. I don't want to accuse yourself of the other people involved in the deletion review as I understand you were just doing your job. I also don't want to focus on that as even though its true it could also be hearsay.

Firstly the page this redirects to List of Durham UCCE & MCCU players has 147 other players on, of these only 1 other has a redirect, the article in discussion here has played more games than 107 of the other players. So only 40 have played more, when there is a list this long of players and only 1 has been removed and that person is in the top percentages of games played it seems inconsistent with other peer accounts for it to be the only 1 deleted. Especially having played more than 80% of the other players.

The page was originally created after the article name made their professional debut. The main website/domain/database for cricket players and games around the world is ESPN CRICINFO. Obviously you will be aware of the world sports brand ESPN and I have attached a link to the players page on that website here https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/luke-patel-455522, validating that this is a genuine account. Upon making your debut, the teams scorer/ admin staff upload the player to Cricinfo and Wikipedia. Initial edits as seen on revision history were done by User:AssociateAffiliate & User:Waacstats who are two prominent professional editors.

The player also has sites on Wisden, Skysports and bbc sport, amongst others, and can be found all over the internet in articles and pictures further validating who this person is, links found here https://www.skysports.com/cricket/player/19147/luke-patel https://wisden.com/players/luke-patel https://www.cricketworld.com/cricket/players/luke-patel/61593

Further to this our grandad played for Great Britain at Rugby League, on his page Keith Holliday there was a link to Luke on there and a mention of him playing cricket.

I have tried to list the facts why this account been deleted seems inconsistent with the other peer accounts the re direct takes you to, when it is more prominent than over 80% of those pages which all remain intact. We have also proven through various well established sport websites that this person is who they say they are. I think asking why do all the peer accounts on the redirect exist and this one doesn't would be a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

Thus getting back to initially where we've been told by the person they did it. And we also know they've done editing in a nasty derogatory way before. Whilst I understand that could be hearsay, what is also clear is that there is evidence to back this up in the revision history, you will see in there several instances of malicious content been posted on this page and non related users acknowledging this and removing it. There has been instances of racial comments due to our last name also.

On a personal note, of late this has led to issues for my Brother at work and in other scenarios where the validity of what was here (and as Weve proven is factually true happened in relation to his playing career) has been questioned. This is not simply for personal use, He has used this to help at his place of work which is with the NHS and also with charity raising several thousands for Alzheimer's research the illness that took our grandfather.

He also represented and captained the Civil Service sports cricket team the past 2 years, in games against the RAF, Royal Navy, MCC and Royal Air Force. We are hoping to have a cricket admin add these and further missing pieces of information to the page if reinstated. He is and still remains the only person ever to go to our school and play cricket professionally and he is noted in the notable pupils section on the schools wikipedia outwood grange academy

In the future he also hopes to use this account for political, local government and charitable reasons. This is for the benefit of others and not personal.

We hope with this the page can be reinstated in line with all his peers as where the redirect takes you to.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukeyzero (talk • contribs) 21:59, 18 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Okay, this is a lot, but let me see if I can respond to the points in summary.
 * Regardless of whether you are Mr. Patel or his brother, you should not be editing the pages of yourself or family members; it is a conflict of interest. It is very difficult to remain neutral about one's family. Additionally, I notice that you seem to be using "we". Please note that Wikipedia does not allow shared accounts, so whoever is editing must have their own account.
 * Unfortunately the reality is that sometimes pages on Wikipedia are subject to vandalism. We do our best to remove it as soon as possible. Insofar as I can tell from the history of the Luke Patel page, this seems to have been done reasonably quickly in every instance. The person or persons inserting the vandalism does not appear to have been the same editor who created the deletion discussion.
 * The AfD discussion (Articles for deletion/Luke Patel) was started by Störm. Again, he nominated quite a large number of cricketers for deletion at the same time, so I do not believe his conduct was personally targeted in any way. Prior to his retirement last year, Störm was an editor in good standing insofar as I know, so I have no reason to believe that he was the same editor/editors who vandalised the article.
 * Our concern is not whether Mr. Patel exists or plays cricket. I have no doubt that he does both. The question is whether or not he is notable at the level of a general-interest encyclopedia.
 * In order to meet the general notability guideline (GNG), our baseline for what constitutes a notable topic, a subject needs to have garnered significant prose coverage in multiple independent sources. Sports databases are explicitly not considered sufficient as they are not prose. Sources that support a claim to notability include things like profiles in magazines or news articles that focus on Mr. Patel.
 * The fact that other other similar articles exist does not imply that every article in a given topic area must be kept. Our notability guidelines for sports figures have undergone significant revision over the last year and a half or so. Cricketers were once presumed to be notable on the basis of a single professional appearance, but that is no longer the case - they must now meet the GNG for inclusion like anything else. If there are cricketers on that list who don't meet the GNG, that is an indication that those articles should also deleted or redirected, not that the article about Mr. Patel should be reinstated.
 * The link to Luke at the Keith Holliday page was inserted by you! In any case, simply being linked from elsewhere on Wikipedia is not an indication of notability.
 * I'm sorry that the redirection of the article has led to personal issues for Mr. Patel, but that is not our responsibility. We do not function as a personal website or CV, we are an encyclopedia.
 * "In the future he also hopes to use this account for political, local government and charitable reasons." - I'm sorry, do you mean his Wikipedia account? That is absolutely forbidden. We do not exist to enable people to engage in promotion of any kind. (And see also my comment above about sharing accounts - both of you cannot be editing on this one account).
 * To sum that all up, the deletion was in line with policy, does not appear to have been personally targeted, and will not be reversed in the absence of significant coverage. Hopefully this is reasonably clear for you and your family. I wish Mr. Patel the best with his charitable endeavours. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:12, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello, thank you again for your reply.

It still makes no sense to me why this account was deleted when the others weren't and are still active but appreciated your time and feedback. There are also examples of 100's of Sports persons accounts on Wikipedia who haven't even ever played a professionally game Having played across 4 years again I find this odd as in many sports a lesser time frame span is classed as a 'career'.

However, rather than focusing on that I've taken the time to try focus on some facts, in an hour I have been able to uncover the following: Note there is a lot which I apologise for but this could easily be multiplied by 10 if I spent the day doing this, hoping this shows the volume of coverage that can be uncovered.

With major news outlets across the UK and Australia been displayed here again I would fail to understand how this wouldn't be seen as significant coverage?

Sporting databases/ websites/ domains:

ESPN Cricinfo https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/luke-patel-455522 Wisden https://wisden.com/players/luke-patel Sky Sports https://www.skysports.com/cricket/player/19147/luke-patel Cricket World https://www.cricketworld.com/cricket/players/luke-patel/61593 Cricket Times https://crickettimes.com/player/61593/luke-patel/ Cricket Archive https://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/347/347729/347729.html you need a subscription to this website as its used for cricket statistics however it used to be accessible to all and their was details of Luke having played for Durham, Yorkshire, Worcestershire and Leicestershire all professional clubs. Cric HQ https://www.crichq.com/players/894018/statistics/career This page actually lists Luke as ‘professional player’

National UK media:

Durham 1st class fixture - https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/cricket/ben-stokes-starts-durham-cccs-2522899 Michael Vaughan (former England captain testimonial game) https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8082068.vaughan-fans-left-soaked-by-storm/ Luke also played in Andrew Flintoff (former England captain) testimonial game that we can show you pictures of https://www.cricketworld.com/county-cricket-round-up-7th-june-2013/34428.htm Luke was interviewed last year about this game by Nick Friend a cricket Journalist for ‘ The Cricketer’ magazine. The interview is due to be published in April 2023 we are happy you to contact Nick to confirm this if you want https://wisden.com/matches/players/129716/durham-v-durham-mccu-at-chester-le-street https://wisden.com/matches/players/106913/durham-mccu-v-warwickshire-at-durham https://www.trentbridge.co.uk/news/2013/april/mullaney-cashes-in.html https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/cricket/9001091.randhawa-double-puts-yorkshire-in-sight-of-victory/ https://www.trentbridge.co.uk/news/2013/april/patel-constructs-career-best-innings.html https://www.espn.in/cricket/series/8798/game/593330/derbyshire-vs-durham-mccu-marylebone-cricket-club-university-matches-2013 https://www.espn.co.uk/cricket/series/8798/game/492082/durham-mccu-vs-yorkshire-marylebone-cricket-club-university-matches-2011 This was just a quick search for this, would be happy to provide more if needed Yorkshire CCC Racism row (all over recent national and global news) – Luke contacted by Ben Rumsby a Journalist from the Daily Telegraph to discuss this as Luke was playing at Yorkshire CCC at the time. Have WhatsApp, phone and twitter records of this. We also have videos from Sky sports News, BBC sport where games Luke is playing in are on TV or across the bottom scanner bar on sky sports News. Luke is followed on his social media accounts by National Journalists, current and former professionals, clubs, and teams. Luke is sponsored by Kookaburra cricket, one of the larger brands in the world and he has been sponsored by them since 2010. We are happy to provide evidence of this if required.

Local/ regional media coverage:(cricket)

https://www.ilkleygazette.co.uk/sport/16683145.wrenthorpe-promoted/ https://www.dewsburyreporter.co.uk/sport/cricket/super-patel-inspires-batley-to-fine-win-over-gomersal-263380 https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/ben-raven-hill-smashes-a-mighty-seasons-best-170-from-127-balls-as-thongsbridge-beat-barkisland/ https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/other-sport/top-two-toppled-huddersfield-league-saturday-league-cricket-review-479683 https://cricketyorkshire.com/11-to-watch-2022/ https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/news/16585251.amp/ https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/cricket/around-yorkshire-cricket-leagues-reports-august-8-9-1814735 https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/cricket/13368483.buttershaw-must-fight-the-good-fight/ https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/cricket/yorkshireleague/9119749.yorkshire-cricket-league-title-rivals-in-a-spin/ https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/cricket/yorkshireleague/4539392.york-cricket-club-in-thrilling-three-way-fight-for-oxbridge-yorkshire-ecb-county-premier-league-title/ https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/eight-wicket-hurrah-for-muhammad-azharrullah-as-hoylandswaine-power-on-at-the-top/ https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/cricket/yorkshire-leagues-round-weekend-july-4-5-1817090 There are literally hundreds of these dating from 2003-2023 Luke has done several interviews with BBC Yorkshire, Radio Leeds, and Yorkshire regional media outlets that we can links or show you evidence of him being in the studio etc Luke also featured in North East News outlets, newspapers and Durham university reports and reviews during his time up in Durham that we can provide you with if needed.

Australia Media:

Luke has spent 3 winters playing in Victoria, Australia as an overseas professional for clubs.

https://www.numurkahleader.net.au/katandra-wins-one-day-final https://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-cobram-courier/20140326/282041915086049 https://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/20191007/281986084302367 https://www.sheppnews.com.au/news/haisman-shield-katandra-outrights-karramomus/ https://www.sheppnews.com.au/news/haisman-shield-round-12-report-katandra-flexes-bowling-muscle/ https://www.cobramcourier.com.au/news/gvbbl-round-two-hounds-and-crushers-split-the-points/ https://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-cobram-courier/20131225/281775626984112 https://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/20140122/282041914994601 Countless more of these articles that can be found Luke appeared on WIN news (TV) in Victoria, Australia after several performances when over there that we can provide you the videos of.

Team/ league/ organisation sites:

https://pudseystlawrencecc.co.uk/1st-xi https://www.bradfordcl.com/blog/holders-hanging-heaton-suffer-second-round-knockout https://www.bradfordcl.com/pages/wrenthorpe

Further Media related items:

NHS Blog https://www.necsu.nhs.uk/news/work-life-balance-comes-in-many-forms-why-managing-employee-interests-enables-necs-consultancy-to-deliver-high-quality-consultancy-expertise/ https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/this-years-marathon-was-hottest-ever-833852 https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/trinity-stars-grandson-luke-born-run-300967 Wakefield Trinity the professional rugby league club listed articles & photos of this ( the marathon and charity work) on their social media, website, and match programmes which we would be happy to share links and photos of. https://web.archive.org/web/20120323042822/http://www.mccuniversities.org/durham/player-profiles/luke-patel,237,PP.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukeyzero (talk • contribs) 21:23, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * It's absolutely ridiculous to ask someone to look through a massive dump of links like this. Pick the best three of them. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:27, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, TAOT, I have to agree.
 * Lukeyzero, I did my best to explain the situation in my lengthy and detailed response, and yet I feel like you hardly read read a single thing I wrote. As far as I can tell, having picked half a dozen basically at random, none of these links constitute significant coverage of Mr. Patel. Databases and match stats are explicitly excluded, as I already mentioned. Trivial mentions in match reports ("Luke Patel did X, some other guy did Y") are not significant coverage. Please confine your next post to three links which you feel have the greatest degree of coverage of Mr. Patel. (I notice also you are still using "we" - who is "we")? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 21:33, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

So the 'We' has no significance when used, as a profession I am a Lawyer an when representing someone if I am producing evidence/information that is just the term I'm using to how it will be produced.

This is a link to the Daily Telegraph coverage of Qatar Vs Ecuador game yesterday, just including this as you noted 'trivial mentions' isnt that what sports reporting is for players on games? This article covering the match does exactly that for the players involved. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2022/11/20/qatar-vs-ecuador-live-score-world-cup-2022-football-latest/

Tried to provide variety in these Links:

1) Work published article related to cricket on Luke's time as an overseas professional in Australia https://www.necsu.nhs.uk/news/work-life-balance-comes-in-many-forms-why-managing-employee-interests-enables-necs-consultancy-to-deliver-high-quality-consultancy-expertise/ For this Luke was interviewed by the NHS NECS comms team an this article was the published on their national website, LinkedIn, Facebook and twitter accounts.

2) Charity worked liked to Wakefield Trinity rugby league team linked to cricket https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/trinity-stars-grandson-luke-born-run-300967 Again Luke was interviewed by The Wakefield Express and Yorkshire Post various times for this article. I have just attached the final one as you didn't want too many links there are several of these. Luke was also invited down to Belle Vue, Wakefield Trinity's home ground to speak at a past players event, following this he received several bouts of media coverage. From Wakefield trinity this included posting on their club website and club Facebook and Twitter accounts. Luke was also in the next 4 Home game Match day programmes. Following this an influx of donations was made to Luke's Marathon Alzheimer's appeal.

3) Cricket Have tried not to include anything match report or player involvement related as you said its trivial

On both the Pudsey ST Lawrence and Civil Service cricket sites there is a player profile page for Luke when he signed/ started playing, the link doesn't open/attach due to it bee interactive with pictures etc (will keep working on this) The article reads as below:

Luke represented Yorkshire CCC from Under 12 through to the Academy until his release in 2009, one month before he attended Durham University where he played In the Centre of Excellence (MCCU) for 4 years (2009-2013) making his First class debut against Nottinghamshire CCC in April 2010 and becoming the 40th capped player in Durham history in 2013. His ex-clubs include Wrenthorpe CC (2007, 2010-2013, 2016-2019), Castleford CC (2008-2009), Methley CC (2014-2015) & Shepley CC (2020-2021). Through working with the NHS he has also represented the Civil Service in games against the Armed Forces. He captained the Civil Service in August 2021 against the MCC in the 100 year memorial game of Civil Service Sports at High Wycombe CC and At Grace Road in August 2022 against the RAF in the centenary game. He has also done 3 overseas stints in Victoria, Australia with Strathmerton CC (2013/4 & 2014/5) and Katandra CC (2019/2020) representing the Murray Valley Cricket Association (League XI) and Jarvis Delahey Crushers (Franchise T20) whilst he was out in Australia.

The other dedicated article I can think of whilst discussing a cricket game but actually is an interview with Luke is one I mentioned earlier that has been Written by Nick Friend a cricket journalist for The Cricketer magazine, he was due to publish this April but is with holding until April 2023, we would be happy for you to contact him to confirm this interview and article took place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukeyzero (talk • contribs) 11:06, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Jesus, man, less is more. I'm not reading all that. I clicked on the sources and I am not impressed.
 * Sources must be independent of the subject to support a claim to notability. An interview with his place of work, the NHS, is not independent coverage, so it can't be used to support a claim to notability.
 * The Wakefield Express piece is basically a human-interest local-news fluff piece about him running a marathon.
 * I am not undeleting the article, and I'm done arguing with you about this. If these are your best sources, you're proving my point that he isn't notable. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 11:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Ive noticed you say 'I'm done arguing on a lot of your chat's on here' why is that? I'm not trying to argue I'm trying to provide information for you to overturn a process. Could you please tell me specifically what you require as everything I provide seems to be dismissed immediately by you? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukeyzero (talk • contribs)
 * Frankly I say that a lot because I'm a volunteer and I have limited patience and energy for editors with conflicts of interest dumping massive piles of links and walls of text on my talk page, expecting me to take time out of my day to read and assess them in detail, only to be argued with and told I don't know anything about our own policies and expectations - by people who have no stake in this project and zero knowledge of our policies. Even when I take the time to clearly point to these policies in links or explain them by summarizing in my own words, there's minimal engagement. Why should I take the time when editors like you don't? This project doesn't exist so that you or anyone else can promote themselves. I've explained to you extremely clearly what we require - multiple reliable sources that cover your brother in significant detail, which are independent of him. As far as I can tell, these sources don't exist, because if they did, we wouldn't have redirected the page in the first place. I'm not interested in repeating myself about this again, and as a side note, it is considered extremely deceptive to edit one's own comments well after the fact, especially to remove pertinent information as you did - do not fucking do that again. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 13:40, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!
<div class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color:#E6E6FA; border: 1px solid #7D00B3; margin: 0.5em auto; padding: 0.5em; width:90%; text-align: center"> Happy First Edit Day! Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee,  interstate five   00:03, 23 November 2022 (UTC)