User talk:Prioryman/Volubilis

Translation
Here's my attempt at a translation of the words on the arch, in response to the message on the talk page for the Latin article. I don't really understand the syntax of the thing (like what the subject of the verb at the very end is, or what the series of numbers and nouns is), but perhaps someone will be able to fix it.

IMPERATORI CAESARI MARCO AVRELLIO ANTONINO PIO FELICI AVGVSTO PARTHICO MAXIMO BRITTANICO MAXIMO GERMANICO MAXIMO To the emperor Caesar, Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, the pious, fortunate, majestic, greatest victor in Parthia, greatest victor in Britain, greatest victor in Germany,

PONTIFICI MAXIMO TRIBVNITIA POTESTATE XX IMPERATORI IIII CONSVLI IIII PATRI PATRIAE PROCONSVLI ET IVLIAE AVGVSTAE PIAE FELICI MATRI Pontifex Maximus, holding tribunician power for the twentieth time, Emperor for the fourth time, Consul for the fourth time, Father of the Country, and to Julia Augusta, pious, fortunate mother,

AVGVSTI ET CASTRORVM ET SENATVS ET PATRIAE RESPVBLICA VOLVBILITANORVM OB SINGVLAREM EIVS to the camps and the Senate and the country, to the Republic of the Volubilitans, because of his exceptional

ERGA VNIVERSOS ET NOVAM SVPRA OMNES RETRO PRINCIPES INDVLGENTIAM ARCVM and new kindness towards all, which is above all that of the principes that came before,

CVM SEIVGIBVS ET ORNAMENTIS OMNIBVS INCOHANTE ET DEDICANTE MARCO AVRELLIO this arch, with chariots drawn by six horses and all the ornaments, was begun and dedicated by Marcus Aurelius

SEBASTENO PROCVRATORE AVGVSTI DEVOTISSIMO NVMINI EIVS A SOLO FACIENDVM CVRAVIT Sebastenus, procurator, who had it made from the ground up with deepest devotion to his august divinity. — Eru·tuon 19:36, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I think:
 * et iuliae augustae ... matri augusti et castrorum et senatus et patriae:
 * and to Julia Augusta, ... mother of the August one, of the camp, of the senate and of the fatherland
 * respublica uolubilitanorum ... arcum ... a solo faciendum curavit:
 * the republic of the Volubilitans ... took care to build an arch from the ground up
 * incohante et dedicante marco aurellio sebasteno procuratore augusti deuotissimo numini eius:
 * begun and dedicated by Marcus Aurelius Sebastenus, procurator of the August and most devoted to his numen

Iblardi (talk) 12:57, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, both of you. From what I've read, "deuotissimo numini eius" has the meaning of "with [greatest/most/deepest] devotion to his divinity" (which I guess is an approximation of numen) - see e.g. . The final bit is also standard ("faciendum curat" - "he had it made"). Erutuon, the numbers relate to the number of times that the Senate conferred those status on the emperor; they're a standard formula in imperial dedications. We still need more clarity on lines 3-5 though. Prioryman (talk) 13:11, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Which part?
 * ob singularem eius erga uniuersos et nouam supra omnes retro principes indulgentiam I would translate as "because of his exceptional and new kindness towards all, which is above (that of) all the princes that were before" (i.e. by granting citizen rights, I guess). Iblardi (talk) 13:25, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I take matri ... castrorum etc., "mother ... of the camp" etc., as a title for the mother and respublica V. as the subject of the sentence. Iblardi (talk) 13:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as the structure goes, I think it should be read:
 * imperatori caesari marco aurellio antonino...
 * to the emperor ... Marcus Aurelius Antoninus... etc.
 * et iuliae augustae piae felici matri augusti et castrorum et senatus et patriae
 * and to Julia Augusta, mother of...etc.
 * respublica uolubilitanorum
 * the republic of those of Volubilis [has]
 * ob singularem eius erga uniuersos et nouam supra omnes retro principes indulgentiam
 * because of... etc.
 * [a solo faciendum curauit] arcum cum seiugibus et ornamentis omnibus
 * [taken care that there should be built, from the ground up (=a solo)] an/the arch, with a/the six-span and all the ornaments,
 * incohante et dedicante marco aurellio sebasteno procuratore augusti deuotissimo numini eius
 * [the building having been] iniated and dedicated by M. Aurelius Sebastenus... etc. Iblardi (talk) 13:54, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Take a look at it now (I've taken the liberty of reusing the text at the top) - what do you think of it? Seiugibus means a six-horse chariot, by the way, not six arches (which this monument definitely doesn't have). Prioryman (talk) 21:12, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Now that's a dumb mistake. I was thinking of Dutch "zesspan", which means exactly that, a six-horse chariot. Please excuse my Dunglish! Iblardi (talk) 21:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * My comments on the current translation:
 * 1. Don’t forget to translate proconsuli.
 * 2. Piae felici matri Augusti, said of the mother, parallels the pio felici Augusto said of the emperor.
 * 3. Again, mater castrorum, here in the dative matri castrorum, is an honorific title (“mother of the camp” – castra, camp, is a plurale tantum), as are mater senatus and mater patriae.
 * 4. The respublica is the one that had the monument made (faciendum curavit).
 * 5. Marco Aurelio Sebasteno ... numini eius is a circumstantial clause (M. Aurelius Sebastenus, procurator of Augustus, who is extremely devoted to the latter's numen, performing the actions of laying the first stone and dedicating the monument).
 * Iblardi (talk) 23:01, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, so should we consider the second half - from the middle of line three to the end - as a standalone sentence? i.e. "Because of his exceptional and new kindness towards all, which is above all that of the principes that came before him, the Republic of the Volubilitans had this arch made from the ground up with deepest devotion to his august divinity, with chariots drawn by six horses and all the ornaments, begun and dedicated by Marcus Aurelius Sebastenus, procurator." Or something like that? Prioryman (talk) 23:33, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Not quite. As I read it, it goes: "For (to, in honour of) the emperor (etc.) and his mother (etc.), because of his exceptional indulgence (etc.), the republic of the Volubilitans took care to have this arch made, including the chariot and the ornaments -- with M.A.S., Augustus' procurator, who is deeply devoted (devotissimo) to the divinity of Augustus, initiating and dedicating it." Iblardi (talk) 00:00, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but dont use google translate. Daylipper — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.161.203.93 (talk) 21:57, 31 December 2012 (UTC)