User talk:RHaworth/Archive to 2008 March

SimWhiteHouseDeletion
Why are you going around deleteing peoples articles like you own wikipedia. The Simwhitehouse is a very interesting article to read about it maybe you should read it before deleteing. I think your page should be deleted its no relevence to anyone where I live and simwhitehouse is none to the people where you live but that dosent mean you should delete it.I think I should put a request in to delete your page but no I wont do that because that page is nothing to do with me.Please dont go around deleting peoples articles in future without their concent your not the owner of wikipedia its FREEE.! -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hennyxlb (talk • contribs)
 * True I am not the owner of Wikipedia. If anybody "owns" Wikipedia it is the community of all its editors and in this case the discussion at Articles for deletion/SimWhiteHouse came out with a clear six to zero motion to delete. Why could you not be bothered to contribute to the AfD discussion? As someone in the AfD pointed out, Wikipedia is not a free webspace provider. Why don't you go and post your article here on EditThis you will, I am sure, get a lot less trouble. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 14:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Automobile Red Book deletion
I really am trying to do this in a manner that is acceptable on here, but I do not understand what the problem is. That page was neutral. It was similar in content and scope with other pages on Wikipedia. I asked--no, I BEGGED someone to tell me what I needed to do with it before it was deleted for a second time after I rewrote it to be even more neutral. I didn't just throw that together in two minutes. I spent a lot of time on that page. Please tell me what the problem is exactly. Please let me know. Because if I try and do this again, I want to know it is going to be there when I get done. Thank you.--Auto Red Book (talk) 18:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You do have a right to raise the matter at Deletion review but it would much better if you were to do nothing . Let someone else write the article for you. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 18:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Retna Delete
My entry just got deleted. It's a bio entry...and I explained in my talk section why this was significant. So not sure what I'm doing wrong. How can I go about correcting this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Digitalretna (talk • contribs) 04:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:AUTO and WP:SPAM. You should wait until someone else writes your bio. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Deletion Question
You've just deleted the "Rideau Recognition Solutions" page because you said it was "reposted spam." Could you explain what I could do to change this? I do feel it was neutral and simply informative... Rideau Recognition is a historical Canadian company, producing Canada's top reward - the Order of Canada. Please let me know! - LMSR (talk)
 * Declare honestly on your user page what your connection is with Rideau. Then wait until someone with no COI writes about the company for you. I share Orange Mike's suspicion that you are Lorraine Sonier. (I think of those initials as meaning London, Midland and Scottish Railway but I assume not in your case! Also - tell your webmaster that the mugshots do not work in this page.) -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 20:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I am not Lorraine Sonier. However, I am a Rideau employee. Though I assumed I didn't have conflict of interest since this was not connected to my duties. I just took this up on my own initiative since the company has this kind of history... —Preceding unsigned comment added by LMSR (talk • contribs) 21:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that honesty. So probably better for you to leave it to someone else. Incidentally it is grossly misleading and somewhat arrogant to claim that the company "produces the Order of Canada". I assume you mean that you make the badges presented to recipients of the order. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

JOPA
I put some comments in the discussion section of the 'Junior officer's protection association' page. I am a Naval officer with 3.5 years as Navigator of a Frigate, now working in a new field within the Navy. I started this page at the request of some of the fellows I served with onboard ship. Although I can't find any official publications on the organization to reference, it is an active part of US Military officer culture, which is ultimately why I feel this page should remain on Wikipedia. It is a huge organization with thousands of members, some more active than others. Many people don't understand what JOPA is, which is why I attempt to explain it on the page. Please let me know how I can improve the page to bring it up to wiki-standards. Thanks. Ffg37navigator (talk) 03:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

OS grid key Ireland.gif
Thanks for uploading Image:OS_grid_key_Ireland.gif. -- Rettetast (talk) 13:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

How Television Works
You meant content fork, I assume. I think strangling the entire article at birth is a little harsh; it's impossible for others to edit or discuss the content if they can't find it. I've reinstated it, with a merge-multiple tag and a discussion starter on Talk:Technology of television. Can you let others read it and have a say before deleting it again, please? IanHarvey (talk) 14:43, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Where is my article?
RHaworth, I just recovered from a flu and wanted to edit my article as you suggested,but now I can't even find it now! I don't know who is responsible. I can't even log-in! Any info would be appreciated, lordarchitect —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordarchitect (talk • contribs) 22:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Which article are you talking about? None of your edits on Wikipedia have been deleted. You can log in to Wikipedia - you left this message didn't you? I am very worried that EditThis seems to be down because I have stuff of my own there. Let us hope it is only temporary. When it comes back you will be able to edit your bagoong article without any need to log in. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see this user talk page. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:39, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Rupert Kathner - early deletion
You deleted the Rupert Kathner page before we had a chance to expand on it. Maybe in future you should give pages 24 hours before you remove them. -- SME (talk) 06:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You will never stop people deleting "empty" articles. You should develop an article in User:SME/sandbox (or similar title) until it reaches a viable size. Even now the article is perilously short. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

List of botanical codices and florilegia
I'm well aware of the meaning of Codex. Florilegia is a selection of flowers - strictly botanical. Rotational (talk) 18:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you going to create any incoming links or just leave it as an orphan? -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 18:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, there is a lot of work remaining - help would be useful! Are you a distant relative of the botanical Haworth? Rotational (talk) 18:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Ashfield
My usage of 'cool dude' attempted to indicate that I am a cool dudette... but it clearly didn't work. Sigh. Thank you for the Ashfield addition. I did look it up, but found the same ambiguity, so left it alone, because I'm too tied up Wikifying the Glossary. I am biased, but I think the emerging article is filling an immense gap in public knowledge about the institutional 'care' of children. I really hope it doesn't get wiped out. I can't begin to imagine what was the position before the YJB came into being. But then I can; having read some of Lord Ramsbotham's reports when he was Chief Inspector of prisons.

--SJB (talk) 21:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It seems that Ashfield is "Split site" See Lord Ramsbotham's first speech http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2008-02-06a.1133.2&s=speaker%3A13218#g1137.0

--SJB (talk) 09:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not Ashfield. The HMP page says clearly "between 15 and under 18 years". My query was, why does that HMP page not use the term YOI - see for example Feltham? Incidentally the official term is Young Offender Institution - no "s" on offender and definitely not 'apostrophe s'! -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Ashfield is privately run (by Serco); that is probably the point of differentiation, since they (Secure Training Centres) operate under a different regime to that operated by the prison service YOIs. Again, a serious bone of contention for many in the YJ field. Why can't I add any more information to the Glossary ? --SJB (talk) 21:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

You may be interested in details of the other STCs. For the record, I am in the process of retiring with grace having had the YOT Glossary unceremoniously booted off. If you can help with transferring my painstaking efforts to Wikfy the entries to the Wikia counterpart, I should be very grateful indeed.--SJB (talk) 11:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I will be happy to. So why not provide me with the link to Wikia? -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 16:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much, you've been a real gent ! (Or should that be a cool dude?) http://referralorders.wikia.com/wiki/Glossary  I made the same request on the deletion review - it was ignored. Sigh --SJB (talk) 18:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of the time I try to pretend that "cool" has no meaning except in respect of physical temperature. When I condescend to admit that it may have another usage, then I am quite clear that personally I strive to be the absolute opposite of cool. One reason your request at deletion review was ignored was because you gave no link. Are we supposed to be psychic and know that you had selected "referralorders" as the name? I have copied over. I leave you to fix the other wikilinks. I suggest splitting it before it gets to 32k bytes long.
 * Carry on the good work. You will find life a lot quieter on Wikia! -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 18:43, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

'Cool' means 'mensch' to me, if that strikes a chord.

It cost you-and-I £270m to consign a monthly head-count of some 3,000 of our kids into the 'custody and care' of clink last year, so it is a VERY lucrative Industry for some people -but I don't say so TOO loudly.

Apart from the subversive aspect of my project (ie making information accessible to Joe and Jane Public), another reason I am keen to make it happen, is that swathes of people (apart from Wiki Admins/Editors :rolleyes) are waiting to hack it around. Sigh.

Apologies for blanket attribution of Hostility on the Deletion review - it's the safest assumption on Net-related interaction.

Another desperate plea for help, pleeeease. I don't seem to have a 'down-stroke' key on my (cheap) laptop, to make links to the main Wiki; so how do I link my Wikia to Wikipedia ? And how the feck do I know if it gets to 32k bytes long?

Don't laugh; this is the website for our embryonic 'movement'. http://www.aopm.co.uk/ --SJB (talk) 21:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have a little German so "mensch" just means "person" to me. What is a 'down-stroke' key and why do you need it anyway. (Try looking for a blue "Fn" key.)
 * How to link from Wikia to Wikipedia? I suggest you ask the person who did this perfectly correct edit! Actually it is better if interwikilinks are "piped", eg. . You also have an autopiping feature, eg. I keyed   and it was automatically expanded to   when I saved the article.
 * Size? Look at the history! Do you see (25,407 bytes) against my edit? -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 07:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Mensch means 'a real human being' as opposed to the other sort. Bless your little cotton socks !--SJB (talk) 15:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC) The 'downstroke' key is that little sucker AFTER the second bracket of 'legal concept' and BEFORE the first square bracket. It isn't 'I' or 'l'; there is a 'down stroke' but it isn't activated by the blue Fn key.--SJB (talk) 16:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If mensch means 'a real human being', then I am dubious about whether I am a mensch! The char is usually called a "pipe" symbol: '|'. I have it on shifted-backslash '\'. One guaranteed way of getting it is to copy and paste from somewhere else! Or, as they say, if all else fails, read the manual for your laptop. (You can enter it as "Alt-124" if you find the Alt... trick.) -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Gosh! If you get a chance, do take a look... http://referralorders.wikia.com/wiki/Glossary --SJB (talk) 10:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Conurbations
My apologies and thanks respectively regarding the points left at my page. I did have every intention of having England/Conurbations speedily deleted following a small refuel. The material just seemed to be a target for civic pride way too often. Hopefully this will help futureproof the material for a longer period. Thanks again, -- Jza84 · (talk) 19:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Anthony Mason
If you're going to turn a page into a disambiguation page, you need to go through and fix all the incoming links to the page so they point to the correct target. --bainer (talk) 07:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't tell me, tell MichaelProcton. I was just tidying up his amazing creation of the learned judge's bio on a title of Larry Brown (law) and using copy&paste not move! -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 07:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Alec Austin
What would I have to do to keep the Alec Austin article on the web? It's for one of our prospects for our hockey team and he needs to be see from other scouts on the web. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wed12 (talk • contribs)
 * You must:
 * not vandalise - why did you delete the message about OS grid key Ireland.gif?
 * learn to sign comments with ~
 * not use Wikipedia as your personal message board. If all you want is to put Alec on the web, then well create a Myspace page! If he ever becomes notable then you may create a bio about him - assuming that you are not Alec yourself.
 * -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 06:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Advert
Just need your comments as whether the following articles should have an advert tag: And if not, why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feelfunky (talk • contribs)
 * Skagen Designs, Ltd.
 * Armani
 * FLO-CERT
 * Bulgari
 * Heidelberg Cement
 * Hanson plc
 * You must be living on a different planet (or in a monastery) to have not heard of Armani or Bulgari! Of course none of them are adverts. I told you not to worry about the advert tag on voided biaxial slab but clearly you are still fussing about it. So I have voided that tag and replaced it with COI. Again, don't worry, don't remove it. Think on this: the maintenance tags create incoming links to the article (via categories) and thus announce the article's existence. Instead of worrying about the tags, I suggest that you create a few more incoming links. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Gabriel Oyibo
Hi, you've prodded Gabriel Oyibo but I was wondering if it should be AfD'd - it has been deleted under an expired prod previously and has been restored by Kraus77, with substantially the same material. Last time the article existed, blocked user User_talk:HaroldKraus7, probably same person, kept putting back in the hoax material and eventually it was deleted for non-notability (IIRC). If it gets AfD'd it can be speedied in future. Just wanted to check with you this is the right way to go, I've not AfD'd anything previously --Bazzargh (talk) 12:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

BTW another question about this - should I mention the user switch somewhere? Doesn't seem to fit the definition of sockpuppetry (only one active account); I don't know what the procedure is here. --Bazzargh (talk) 12:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like pure sockpuppetry to me. I have not blocked Kraus77 because they will just create another account. But I agree, straight to AfD. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:13, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Playscape
Hi You deleted an article on Playscapes. Playscapes and Natural Playgrounds are completely different then the work 'playground'. I am a landscape architect I run a landscape company I build playscapes and natural playgrounds. This is definatly a true term and it is different then a standard playground. Please tell me what I need to do to get this page up. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gardens for Living (talk • contribs) 20:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * From your description, a playscape is merely a certain type of playground. I would disagree that it is "completely different" from a playground. Since neither article is very long, in the first instance, just add your text to the playground article. I was inclined to tag "playscape" for deletion as a neologism but it does seem to get a reasonable number of Google hits. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 20:34, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I have more information on this topic, what do you think it would take to have it stand on its own? Or am I fighting a losing battle to have it stand alone and is my only option to add it to Playground? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gardens for Living (talk • contribs) 03:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC) Thanks, any advice would be welcome. I understand your reasoning for deletion. I will continue to add to it and try to seperate it completely from playground, because it really does deserve to be alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gardens for Living (talk • contribs) 03:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is strange - several of my recent AfD nominations have attracted very little interest. Yours is one of them. Improve the article if you want or simply wait until the AfD is closed. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 03:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Whoops
My bad...I was doing some NBA article formatting and got distracted. I was trying to create the disambig page for Anthony Mason, since I doubt few US users would recognize the Aussie political figure before the NBA player. Thanks for fixing my slip-up. MichaelProcton (talk) 08:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Non-notable articles
Hi RHaworth. I'm still very new to the Wikipedia environment and am learning more every day, so I'm not sure whether or not you received notification that I responded to your petition to delete my most recent entry. Since I posted it yesterday, you are the third person who has criticized it, but the first to recommend it for deletion. The other two critics were very helpful and provided feedback for how I can improve the entry. I appreciate any constructive criticism and hope you will reconsider your stance once you educate yourself further on the company and what is and what is not notable in the insurance lead industry. I look forward to your suggestions for how I can edit and improve this entry. Thank you. Best, --Kristahtq (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I was very slow and did not notice the HTQ at the end of your name. If I had seen it, I would have stuck to my initial decision to speedily delete the article. Cut your waffle and admit openly on your user page what your connection is with HTQ. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 21:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Possibly obscene, anyway
Yo, R. I'm thinking this guy is asking to "grab your socks." In other words, bend over. I may be wrong, but given this guy's edit history to date, I wouldn't be surprised. Looks to me as if he knows just enought to skirt the rules without getting caught right away. Just my two cents'. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 00:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

You Gave Me Some Advice
Thank you! TaylorMinor (talk) 16:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Prod on Farmers' Science Congress
I have removed the prod tag from Farmers' Science Congress, which you proposed for deletion, because I think that this article should not be deleted from Wikipedia. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the prod template back to the article. Instead, feel free to list it at Articles for deletion. Thanks! --  At am a chat 23:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Vadalur Vallal Peruman
Hi. The article வாழ வழிகாட்டும் வள்ளலார் Vadalur Vallal Peruman has been speedily deleted by you. It had been listed at AfD, moved, userfied, all in a matter of minutes, and now it is nowhere to be found, and the people at WP:PNT are looking for it. Can you help please? --Blanchardb- Me • MyEars • MyMouth -timed 13:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, even I am a bit confused - the problem seems to be Kubek15 who moved User:Thamizan/sandbox to Vadalur Vallal Peruman over redirect: with the amazing claim that "normal users can't move to someone's sandbox without permission"! I promptly deleted Vadalur Vallal Peruman, meaning to delete the redirect.
 * I have restored User:Thamizan/sandbox for you translate, if you wish. But first check whether Thamizan's work was not actually a translation into Tamil from Jothi Ramalinga Swamigal. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 14:10, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No its not translation from jothi ramalinga...., this is totalty a new work, i am wondering why this was deleted, i am still constructing this article, pls restore it thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thamizan (talk • contribs) 15:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Did you read my comment above? Deletion was a mistake. Your article has been restored to User:Thamizan/sandbox. If you are writing in Tamil, please transfer your activities to the Tamil Wikipedia immediately. If you think the guy is notable, you can confirm your request for translation into English here. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 15:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Royal progress
An article that you have been involved in editing, Royal progress, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Royal progress. Thank you. Caerwine Caer’s whines 02:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of zombo.com
I wanted to read the artilce on Zombo.com. I believe that this really is an internet phenomenon. Could you please re-create it? Would there be a problem if I recreated it from a page I found on an Internet Archive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Syphon1337 (talk • contribs) 05:09, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see this moan. Don't link to the Wikipedia article about the Internet Archive: link to the article in question in the archive! You can try to re-create it. It has been well argued over - see Special:Whatlinkshere/Zombo.com. I would suggest that the best treatment is one sentence (it does not deserve any more) in List of Internet phenomena and a redirect from Zombo.com. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Sir Degarè
For some reason, there's a Sir Degarè re-direct to Sir Degarè: I'm not sure why it does this, rather than going straight to the article. Any idea how I can fix this? golden bells, pomegranates, prunes &amp; prisms (talk) 14:53, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've just realised one's an acute the other's a grave. There's a re-direct from Sir Degare too, so I think that's all bases covered. golden bells, pomegranates, prunes &amp; prisms (talk) 14:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Joel Smernoff
Hi. You marked Joel Smernoff's page as unsourced or poorly sourced controversial claims. I am wondering what specifically was either. -- MikeBush79 (talk) 22:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I did not - this was my edit. Learn to read edit histories. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
I deleted a link at the bottom of Self replicating machines. I would call it an unfortunate accident rather than vandalism, as I couldn't figure out what it was, and it was not rendering. Either way you have my applogies. Bobprime (talk) 05:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

BobPrime
re: User:Bobprime. Please don't bite the newcomers and assume good faith. (John User:Jwy talk) 05:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Bobprime has been contributing for 18 months. How long do I have to wait before he ceases to be a newbie? But on reflection my comment was a tad to strong. I should have said "looked like vandalism". -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 05:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I was going by number of edits: 107.  He'll survive.  (John User:Jwy talk) 05:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

F-Unit page
I removed RfD from F-Unit(Self Replicator). I know its a horrible page that is very very POV if nothing else. I was moving the full article out of self-replicating machine as part of a dispute with its author/inventor there simply to improve a more important article first by removing all of that text. The whole thing is pending a rewrite once I get time and at least this way the text is not visible to anyone who does not search for it directly. I could not think of any way to resolve the dispute between Fraberj (the inventor) and a large number of wikipedia editors. It seemed better than the perpetual revert war that was happening.

If you have suggestions on how to deal with this whole mess I would love to hear them. Bobprime (talk) 06:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (Please try and put links, into talk page comments - it does help. And it was not an RfD tag it was a prod!) I did wonder why you had created the article with maintenance tags in place. You should have put your comments above on the talk page. (However unencyclopedic it may be, Fraberj still deserves credit for it - and would save me criticising you for it!)
 * You have seen my suggestion on how to deal with this whole mess: delete it as non-notable! If you do a re-write, start at the bottom with references which show that the idea has received serious consideration by independent sources - if you can find any! I will give you a day or two but AfD seems the appropriate treatment. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 06:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * First, sorry about everything I do. I really am new to this.  Until this whole mess all I did was revert vandalism and fix language mistakes.


 * Unfortunately the main part of the mess is the articles inclusion in self-replicating machine. I figured it was better to clean it out of there first, then the problem can be seperately treated on its own page.  I will add more comments to the talk page, I thought I had mentioned what I was doingt here.  The F-Unit is actually worthy of some small mention on the self-replicating machine article as several experts have actually dedicated a large part of one of their books to ridiculing the F-Unit pattent and are currently in a legal dispute with Fraberj.


 * I agree that the best way to deal with the full article is WP:AFD for the same reasons you do, but I think that has to wait until self-replicating machine is cleaned up. Fortunately nothing links to it at the moment.


 * If you could wait until the mess is cleaned up in self-replicating machine before marking it as prod I would really appreciate it. I don't have the energy to go through a major fight with the inventor.  I don't think anything can be done about him until he gets banned from wikipedia and I don't even know where to start with that.  Read Fraberj's userpage if you want to get a feel for him.  He also does not believe in verifiability.


 * As alwasy suggestions would be more than welcome. Bobprime (talk) 06:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate your opinion of my and Bobprime's actions toward Fraberj. It is nice having an outside opinion. Throughout our exchange I made it a point to be overly civil in the face of incivility, since this is the advice I've gotten from poking around Wikipedia (WP:DR and WP:EQ for example). At the same time, I think you're right that we were "far too kind" to the editor in question. Since you've been around a long while, let me ask you for some advice: how could I have approached the situation more firmly, while adhering to WP:CIVIL and other such guidelines? Personally I think your actions were a bit harsh, though I do not think you were off-base at all. I'm trying to reconcile my overly accommodating sense of wikiquette with the fact that I know I should be more firm at times. Thanks a lot for your time: I do appreciate it. -FrankTobia (talk) 14:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not the right person to ask about being civil - I am constantly being told not to bite the newbies! The fact is that with someone like Fraberj you have to move at least one, and probably several, steps away from gentle wordings. I take my standards for addressing other editors from what Nancy Pelosi or Michael Martin would allow when seated in their respective chairs. Personal attacks are forbidden but more robust language is allowed than might be allowed in casual conversation. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I'm going to work on being civil yet firm in the future. One more thing: can you take a look at my comment on Articles for deletion/F-Unit (self-replicator)? I don't expect you to withdraw the nomination, but I believe there's still a chance to work with Fraberj to come to a mutually beneficial result. If you do end the AFD and give me and Bobprime more time (one month, at most), I'll personally see to it that either the article becomes suitable for Wikipedia, and if not I'll renominate it. -FrankTobia (talk) 18:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As Edison says, if you cannot fix it in five days then too bad. For goodness sake, you have had since October already. But what puzzles me is why are you even trying when you, yourself admit that "the notability of the subject is highly suspect"? -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 19:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I am keeping my hands off of this now. Whoever deletes this article is going to get a lot of trouble from Fraberj.  He will most likely start a revert war against "evil hackers" and has repeatedly threatened to start deleting other content in the self replicating machines article.  I was trying to be nice to him because I didn't want to deal with all of that crap.  Good luck with the delete, its the right thing to do (though he does deserve minor mention in the main article), but its more trouble then I think it is worth. Bobprime (talk) 05:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I see you were right in being too nice to Fraberj. Thanks for dealing with the article in the correct way.  It is a definite improvement.  Will the AfD article get deleted soon automatically or can I delete it immediately by hand since I am its creator and the only one who objected initially to its prod status? Bobprime (talk) 07:35, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You are not an admin so you cannot delete it nor should you blank it. It is not your text so it would be wrong to tag it db-author. No, just let the AfD run its course. The damage has been done long ago in as much as Google has seen the page. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Babylon
Calling the Babylon fire department article nonsense. Please be careful not to bite the newbies. In this case, you said that a page is nonsense because Babylon is nowhere near a beach. Please be aware, however, that Babylon (town), New York does have some beaches. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Style Guidance
Could you express an opinion ? Not intended as vandalism. My opinion: Why is "Style Guide" more appropriate than "Style Guidance"? ThisMunkey (talk) 10:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Style Guidance is the subject, opposed to "Style Guide" being the most prominent feature.
 * As much in categorising/suiting title as altering the content (sometimes)

WikiProject Ancient European History
I am not entirely sure what you mean Tom.mevlie (talk) 12:06, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Dialect test
The test is certainly notable. In the history of linguistics, it stands as one of the earliest methods of identifyin vowel sounds and features of speech. Its creator, Joseph Wright, was also an early user of the International Phonetic Alphabet.

Perhaps, you would rather if the article was integrated into another. I had considered this, but thought that the test was long enough to warrant a page of its own. Would you rather that it went into another page? There is a problem in that there are no pages for A.J. Ellis or On Early English Pronuncation at present, although there is a page for Joseph Wright. Epa101 (talk) 14:05, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Dialect Test. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 19:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

CRAM model
I have a feeling you may have jumped the gun on the CSD, I see no advertising at all. Why do you think this is advertising? αѕєηιηє t/c 20:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The article clearly qualifies for speedy deletion as self-promotion and OR. But OR is not a speedy criterion, so I hoped an admin would agree with me and speedy it as spam. If you insist we can drag it through prod and AfD. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 20:19, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Prefab Nostalgia
On the Boot house page.. its a pity the prefabs (*fixed*) link(s) has no substantial article or pictures (*still required*). I was a very small boy in those houses but have no pictures/reference. ThisMunkey (talk) 21:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC) Nice pic. I am led to believe our ones were metallic and bolted together (actually am sure, perhaps with Harland and Wolff (Taughmonagh, Belfast) down the road metal panels were the easiest?) dont know. The primary school there taught even ancient history of the place but books? None found.) There was a bit of culture in the tin houses, the estate still being called "Tin Town" (Tin Town Hood(lums) especially, unfortunately). We were moved into houses either 1983 or start of 1984. The estate has no online history beyond any recent news but it has an interesting name ie something will show up. ThisMunkey (talk) 10:33, 2 March 2008 (UTC).
 * Did you see the red links above? Is it really too difficult for you to create links that work: Boot house and prefab? At last you are talking something sensible instead of your endless, pointless ramblings about style guides. Did you live in a Boot house or a prefab? As it happens I have on my photo agenda a note to photograph some of the last surviving prefabs. When you see names such as Baudwin, Ector, Meliot, Mordred, Persant and Pellinore Road [all Knights of the Round Table] you might expect to see castles. But as they say, an Englishman's home is his castle and in Hither Green, south east London are all prefabs but equally they are all some Englishman's castle. I will try and get you some photos. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Would ye?
This is completely accurate. Maybe its not notable? -- ThisMunkey (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC) The link you left was to a link of a 'pic' of a prefab!! And "ye", I was the one who added the singular suggestion to the disambiguation of "Ye". The mention of singular on the article is a bit obscure but I can assure you that is the word. Not obscure on any part of the island but single and plural in different directions. Just as is used in south as plural, is used in north as singular. "Hear ye, hear ye!" (plural) is the familiar one elsewhere but as a "Hiberno-Anglo" definition, Northern Hibernia is completely overlooked. I've no citation for that but neither has the article. Can assure you first hand. ThisMunkey (talk) 14:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You have the most amazing ability to talk in riddles. You say above "nice pic". What pic? I have not mentioned any pics. But this pic is the ones in Hither Green / Downham. They are made of concrete rather than tin. As to "would ye" - what on earth are ye talking about? -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * More riddles! What link to a 'pic' did I leave and where? The link above to "" was only very indirectly to a pic. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Well if you werent intending to show me the prefab pic I'll just have to wonder!
 * 2) "ye" - the page on "ye" says it is a "hiberno-anglo" word (Irish-English), The only way the word is common outside of Ireland these days to my knowledge is "Hear ye, Hear ye!" the town cryers cry. This means "Hear you!" as plural, but if its an Irish word, (and "ye" is regular speech in Ireland today in any part of the island) but north it is seen as a single "you" and south as a plural. Did ye understand me? Where in England you might say "yuh". "Did yuh?" ThisMunkey (talk) 15:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Frog and A Pair of Geese
I'm already stated the reason why Frog and A Pair of Geese article should not be deleted. Please take a time to see and consider it. Thank you. Ivan Akira (talk) 13:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Frog and a pair of geese. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Hose Pumps article
Hello - i have just noticed you have removed the hose pumps page i created. I am new to wikipedia and am by no means a spammer. Please can you re-submitt the hose pump page? this is not the same as peristaltic pumps. All reference links can be removed although the reason for adding these was simply as a reference point. I look forward to your reply —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hose pumps (talk • contribs) 14:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the difference is adequately covered in this section. In the first instance, improve the peristaltic pump article. If you really think there is justification for a separate article, raise the matter at talk:Peristaltic pump. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I notice that someone is adding advertising links to this page again (peristaltic pumps page) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hose pumps (talk • contribs) 15:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

oops indeed
I didn't even realize I'd created that - I wondered where it went to and ended up starting over at Template:Days elapsed times factor/doc. —Random832 22:00, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Frog and A Pair of Geese Edited
I already edited almost every section of this article, please review it and give comments, are there any mistake or there are still not fulfill the Wikipedia article requirements. Thanks. Ivan Akira (talk) 22:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Frog and A Pair of Geese moved
Frog and A Pair of Geese moved to The Tortoise and The Geese edited in the Second Period. I, once again already edited almost every section of this article, please review it and give comments, are there any mistake or there are still not fulfill the Wikipedia article requirements. Thanks, again. Ivan Akira (talk) 08:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * First, Second, Third or whatever Period, it does not matter: you should be paying attention to your lessons and not editing Wikipedia in class! -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Delete of Acksen Timesheet Xpress
The content is no different from those other companies linked off the page comparison of time tracking software. Why delete Acksen and not the others? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acksen (talk • contribs) 11:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC) You mean it is not notable now ;-) Please be fair and delete all others with similar COI, otherwise it will smack of corruption!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acksen (talk • contribs) 12:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC) Why do you feel you can 'speak' in this way to someone you have never met and who has simply made a joke "You mean it is not notable now ;-)", you feel it is appropriate to interact like this? I do not have the need to insult other people, I have good relationships with others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acksen (talk • contribs) 12:56, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Because the article was clearly created by someone with a COI and contained absolutely no evidence that the product is notable. Don't worry - when your product becomes notable, someone will surely write it up for you. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 12:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Cannot you read? Did I write above "contained absolutely no evidence that the product is notable"? So why do you ask "you mean it is not notable now"? Don't acks stupid questions. Now work through the articles linked to in comparison of time tracking software and tell me which ones display evidence of COI. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 12:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, it was a joke. A joke so weak that I did not recognise it as such - also I am not trained to recognise ;-) as a joke signal. As to tone, see my reference to Nancy Pelosi in this section above. I think she would have allowed a comment such as mine. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 13:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, I get it. "A joke so weak that..." ....is it all just explicit criticisms? It is NOT OK to act like this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.250.51 (talk) 14:52, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Equally, it is NOT OK to post adverts to Wikipedia. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 15:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

20DC
The db template says quite clearly "do not remove this notice from pages that you have created yourself". What makes you think it does not apply to you? -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC) What is rude about my message and surely it is perfectly clear? I applied a db-web tag to the article. That tag includes a "do not remove &hellip;" message. Five minutes later you removed the tag. It is possible you removed it by way of uploading a new version from an edit box on your computer. But in that case you should have received an "edit conflict" message which you did not investigate. You do not need to be unsure of the extent to which I have messed messed up your contributions: my contributions history is available to see. The only edits of yours which have been deleted are those to 20DC. Happy editing. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No need to be rude. However, I'm not sure what you're talking about having removed or to what extent you've messed with my contributions ... I can see this page page that you're a rather incorrigible type, so I don't care to press the matter. My apologies if I putzed up a template or the like. Happy hunting. abbajabanana (talk) 05:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Your passive aggressive bravado is cute :) abbajabanana (talk) 18:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Nikola Dragaš
Why did you write 'Do they play cricket in Croatia?' on the site of Nikola Dragaš, the Croatian bowler? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janisterzaj (talk • contribs) 19:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC) They are both 10-pin bowler. 10-pin bowling is different from 9-pin bowling in that fact that the 10-pin bowling balls have no holes for the fingers.--Janisterzaj (talk) 20:25, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, isn't he a cricketer? If not, don't you think it might be an idea to tell us what sort of bowling he does - by making the word "bowler" into a piped link to the article about the sport that he does? Same goes for Miro Steržaj. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 08:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I made a mistake. They are both 9-pin bowler. And 9-pin bowling balls haven't got holes for the fingers.--Janisterzaj (talk) 13:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds better! I think there is scope for a nine-pin bowling article or at least make it a redirect to ten-pin bowling and deal with the subject there. Ten-pin bowling contains a link to nine-pin skittles but I think that is slightly different. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 13:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Longmont Potion Castle
Why did you delete the Longmont Potion Castle page? He is a real comedian who has produced actual recordings and has a devoted fanbase. It says I failed to indicate his importance or significance but I did explain who he is and what he does, and I provided a list of his recordings. There really isn't much information out there about him as he prefers to remain anonymous. What else should I have done? And was it necessary to delete the entire article? I noticed that this article has been deleted every time someone has written it. Is there a particular reason why LPC shouldn't have a wiki? -- Sayitaintjoe (talk) 22:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I deleted it because five different admins before me have deleted it and Articles for deletion/Longmont Potion Castle had a delete decision. But I have to admit that: a) it is more than a year since the AfD, b) there were very few votes in the AfD and c) he has a discography longer than many of the half-notable bands that manage to scrape in here. If you take the article to deletion review, I will abstain. If you have not kept a copy of your text, set up an e-mail address and I will let you have it. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 08:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, I would appreciate a copy of the text. -- Sayitaintjoe (talk) 08:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Deletion Review
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Longmont Potion Castle. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article, speedy-deleted it, or were otherwise interested in the article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sayitaintjoe (talk • contribs)

Excuse me
I brought up in an article about toning down sex and violence on the main page and this administrator replied that books are boring and he would prefer this book about child abuse. I want to have a go at getting him de-admin-ed. Where would I bring that up? (go see Talk:Main page comment by J Milburn) ThisMunkey (talk) 19:16, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * How get admin rights withdrawn? Find out for yourself - start at Administrators' noticeboard. But I would warn you: you are far more likely to find yourslef blocked for trolling than to get J Milburn de-adminned. I agree: Lolita probably is more interesting than The Sea. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 19:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I was too late! You had been blocked 2 mins before I posted the above! -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Self-replicating machine
Roger:

As much as the various rules of Wikipedia suggest that you remove discussion of F-Units, I caution against such an act. For me, the mention in KSRM by Frietas et al., and the existence of the patent is sufficient reason to include discussion within the article. Some of the complaints of Mr. Collins regarding the work of others, with respect to the propriety of calling other systems self-replicating, are supportable by evidence. The impatience with Mr. Collins' antics is well appreciated but, deletion of F-Unit discussion within Wikipedia is not in the interest of Wikipedia readers. William R. Buckley (talk) 01:41, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank You. William R. Buckley (talk) 19:08, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for what? I ain't done nothing! And in case you had not noticed, my last few edits to self-replicating machine were putting stuff back in . -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 19:23, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I anticipated that you would remove material, and when I found it had not been removed, found reason to thank you. That you had taken no action (save restoration of material) is all the better reason to thank you.  William R. Buckley (talk) 15:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Edgar Calabia Samar
You must consider the sources used in the article to address your concern on subject notability. The external links alone point to a number of various sources that prove the subject's relevance in his field. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.243.108 (talk) 16:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Kalisha Buckhanon
An article that you have been involved in editing, Kalisha Buckhanon, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Kalisha Buckhanon. Thank you. --MCB (talk) 04:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

CIBT Education Group
You just deleted the "CIBT Education Group" page. I just want to write an article talking about the company. I don't know why it sounds like its advertising when there wasn't any intent in the first place. Please unprotect the page and advise as to which parts of the article have triggered you to deem it advertising. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cibt0123 (talk • contribs) 18:51, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What triggered? Your user name and your contribution history. Patent COI. As I have just told another spammer (see this above), do nothing . If your company is notable, someone will write it up for you soon enough. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 19:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Michaelene Fredenburg
Hello, thanks for all you do. Do you have any suggestions to correct the flags you put on the article? It's neither spam nor self-promotion, but I don't know how to make it acceptable. -- Drapheus (talk) 18:55, 12 March 2008 (UTC) Understood on the COI. She's a role model figure for myself and my group, as we are pro-life advocates like Mrs. Fredenburg. However, I will expand on the references that you stated. Thanks again.Drapheus (talk) 19:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, you are a bloke so it is not direct self-promotion. But one is still suspicious of some sort of COI since we have no contributions history for you. Chop out four of the existing refs and replace them with links to independent sources that talk about her and demonstrate that she is notable. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 19:20, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

ShamanDhia quick decision
Please reverse your delete vote as per revisions and discussions. Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. —the Hitochi Princess (talk) 14:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)ShamanDhia Agreed, I was responding in-line to the comments because I was late getting the welcome message, and this is my first experience editing on wiki. Others have neutralised their opinion based on my edits. Thanks for the feedback, and I will try not to be so crude in the future.161.38.223.246 (talk) 18:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)ShamanDhia
 * It is still shameless self-promotion. Have some modesty, woman. As I have already said more than once on this page: wait . When you become notable someone will write your bio for you . You have also done very crude edits to the AfD discussion, moving my signature to the end of stuff I did not write. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 16:42, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

deletion of Gridwars citations
If those are included in the main article, it will become too long. How does your action contribute to a better article? Andy Monakov (talk) 17:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC) They come from the Gridwars forum (of course) which no longer exists, so there's no way to link to it. There would be no need for the citations unless some of the content I had contributed was removed on the grounds of untrue statements and personal opinion (please see history page). I had provided some of quotations on the talk page, but the editor who removed the content did not add it back. Hence the decision to provide explicit quotations, but since they are relatively long, I decided to make a new article. So unless it violates some specific rule, would you please move it back? The origin (Gridwars forum) will be included, of course; I agree it was an oversight. Andy Monakov (talk) 18:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC) OK, this solution is perfectly fine with me, for all I wanted is to include standard references to the citations. Had I figured how to simulate a wiki page on the talk page, I'd surely done that without creating another article. So, thanks for taking time to show how to do that, now I'll know. Andy Monakov (talk) 18:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * They simply are not article material. They appear to quotations from some forum thread but since you have not stated where they come from they do not even count as citations. I repeat, add them to the talk page, explain their significance and state their origin . And state what changes you feel should be made to the article. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK I have done it for you. I repeat: a set of quotations from a forum thread simply are not article material. Do not copy them into the article namespace. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 18:25, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

"Ugly Title"
Medicine is not all about beauty. The title may be ugly but the article is necessary till it can be merged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarindam7 (talk • contribs) 19:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See talk:Aberrations of normal development and involution of breast. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 20:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)