User talk:RPflug

 Hi RPflug, and Please excuse this intrusion as you have been around a bit already but if no one has said it before: Welcome to Wikipedia!  Welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you enjoy the encyclopedia and want to stay. As a first step, you may wish to read the Introduction. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me at my talk page — I'm happy to help. Or, you can ask your question at the New contributors' help page.

--- Here are some more resources to help you as you explore and contribute to the world's largest encyclopedia... Finding your way around:


 * Table of Contents


 * Department directory

Need help?


 * Questions — a guide on where to ask questions.
 * Cheatsheet — quick reference on Wikipedia's mark-up codes.


 * Wikipedia's 5 pillars — an overview of Wikipedia's foundations
 * The Simplified Ruleset — a summary of Wikipedia's most important rules.

How you can help:


 * Contributing to Wikipedia — a guide on how you can help.


 * Community Portal — Wikipedia's hub of activity.

Additional tips...


 * Please sign your messages on talk pages with four tildes ( ~ ). This will automatically insert your "signature" (your username and a date stamp). The [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] button, on the tool bar above Wikipedia's text editing window, also does this.


 * If you would like to play around with your new Wiki skills the Sandbox is for you.

 Good luck, and have fun. FWIW, Bzuk (talk) 14:42, 29 December 2011 (UTC).

Hi RPflug, I noted your comments, and if you have some illustrations or other information detailing the BOAC/KLM DC-3s, I would be very interested in changing the illustration, especially if my sources were wrong. I do have a KLM in camouflage photo to use but it is from a different aircraft. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 14:42, 29 December 2011 (UTC).


 * Hi Bzuk, It is a misconception that G-AGBB was a BOAC plane. The planes operated by KLM remained KLM property and were maintained and flown by KLM crews. During WWII KLM flew the planes in charter for BOAC. I read a lot on this subject and seen many pictures of the planes. Unfortunately almost all pictures are black and white. The only colour picture I know of is this one of an other KLM plane: zilverreiger. But this fits descriptions I read of the camouflage used. Here you can find a B/W picture of G-AGBB/PH-ALI after an earlier attack on November 15th 1942: Ibis after attack Cheers RPflug (talk) 17:30, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi RPflug, after looking at my original source, it was apparent that you were correct, and that more digging was needed which resulted in a contemporary colour photograph of a BOAC DC-3 (ex-KLM), the same one you found and an extraordinary view across an airfield that shows what I believe is G-AGBB on the far left. When I blew up the photograph, it revealed some details including the lack of an astrodome, new positions for antennas and the colour scheme which I incorporated in a new illustration of "ISIS". FWiW, Bzuk (talk) 20:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Hi Bzuk, Great photo! I didn't know this one. The plane in the image could also be G-AGBD (PH-ARB) "Buizerd". The KLM planes all had a tall radio mast and originally no astrodome. After two earlier incidents where G-AGBB "Ibis" was attacked, KLM and the Dutch government in exile tried to persuade BOAC and the Britisch Government to switch to night time operations for the flights to Lisbon. After flight 777 was shot down, KLM refused further operations by day light and the British Government gave in. One by one the remaining two DC-3's and one DC-2 were fitted with an astrodome, to allow for astronavigation.
 * The updated image you placed with the article seems to be a good impression of the colour scheme. Some points of interest: The KLM DC-3's were fitted with a right hand side cabin door and 9 cylinder/single row Wright Cyclone engines, with a slightly shorter cowling and without the cooling flaps at the aft edge of the cowling and without the big oil cooler under the engine. In this picture you see the Ibis in 1936 when it was brand new. Later the engine installation was slightly changed as can be seen on this KLM DC-3 in 1939. Well so much for the nerdy details ;-) Best regards RPflug (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * All good points, and as the KLM aircraft had a right-hand side door and a variety of other small details that need changing, these will be corrected in a further revision of the illustration. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:52, 29 December 2011 (UTC).