User talk:RadioBroadcast/Archives/2009/October

Springfield, Missouri
Thanks for your help keeping the Springfield, Missouri, page updated! SpringfieldMoCVB (talk) 16:39, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Good Stuff!
Hey, thanks for your input on the Perkins article! I've spent many an hour on it and am glad to see someone else making high quality contributions. Steve Pastor (talk) 19:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: RfC
Hi, I recently ran across your request for comment and thought I'd share my opinion with you. Although I don't know the name of the comedy team to which you're referring, I scanned my brain and thought of a few other notable duos, just to see what is common on here. The ones I thought of aren't necessarily comedy, but I don't think that part is particularly relevant - it's more along the lines of "are they notable enough independently for their own article?" Not to get too wordy, but I think your best bet would be just to create an article about the duo, particularly if they are/were best known for their work together. If necessary, you could always create an offshoot page for one or both of them later, if there is enough independent information to justify it. Good luck. Zephyrnthesky (talk) 00:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Both Penn & Teller and Hall & Oates have articles on both the individuals, in addition to the joint article
 * Both Siegfried & Roy and Shields and Yarnell (man, I'm dating myself with that one!) just have articles about the duo


 * I guess I wasn't dating myself too much after all with Shields and Yarnell, if this article is the comedy team in question. Nicely done. One thing that crossed my mind: should the quotes be around their names in the article name? I honestly don't know. I noticed you created some redirects, which will get people to the page. Calling it (Uncle Cyp and Aunt Sap) or (Uncle Cyp and Aunt Sap Brasfield) might suffice, though, because the lead paragraph provides their full names. Just a thought. Zephyrnthesky (talk) 19:44, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not too radical, although I remember being a bit nervous the first time I tried it. I've moved a few pages before: one was called Fimrc, which I moved to Foundation for International Medical Relief of Children; another move I made was a Loretta Lynn album (from Singin' With Feelin' to Singin' with Feelin'). Both times, and others I've done, it was just to follow the standard article naming procedures (spell out abbreviations and don't capitalize words like "with"). The only thing you have to watch out for is if a move will create any double redirects, which it mentions during the process. If so, those have to be fixed manually. I'd be happy to do it for you if you want it done. Are you thinking (Uncle Cyp and Aunt Sap) or including their last name as well? Not knowing as much about them as you obviously do, my first thought would be the former, since I'd imagine that's how they were usually billed. Zephyrnthesky (talk) 00:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Done. I fixed the double redirects and created one more, for (Uncle Cyp and Aunt Sap). I'm going to have to ask my grandmother if she remembers them; since she grew up in eastern Kentucky, I'd be willing to bet she does. Zephyrnthesky (talk) 01:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) I read the article, and my first thought was that I can tell you're a good writer. I won't comment about the writing style of some of the articles I've encountered elsewhere on wikipedia, I'm waaaaay too nice to do that ;) But you've done him justice by crafting an interesting story about an interesting man. I've tried to do that myself, but it's always hardest for me to judge my own writing. I also think there aren't nearly enough articles about anything before 1980 on here, and I guess I'm as guilty as most editors in that regard. I did create the page for the radio show Rocky Fortune a while back, which I think turned out well.

As far as the name of the article, the couple of similar examples I thought of were Louis "Satchmo" Armstrong and Lisa "Left-Eye" Lopes, but neither of those include the nickname in the article title. It might be more encyclopedic, or formal, to just call the article (Kenneth Carllile) and have redirects from the nickname. Also, the Allmusic links in the references just go to the main Allmusic page, you might want to have them go |CARLLILE&sql=11:d9fpxqt5ldke~T1 here instead. Take it easy. Zephyrnthesky (talk) 02:19, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

People from Springfield, Missouri
Since you are a frequent contributor to the List of people from Springfield, Missouri article, I wanted to let you know about a question I have raised regarding the "Criminals" section of that article. Please see Talk:List of people from Springfield, Missouri for further details. --TommyBoy (talk) 04:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Eddy Arnold Revert
Whoa, I rewrote the entire thing and you revert me because I am unstable? That's not a reason. I may not have great grammar, but I worked my head off on that. Please revert it back.Mitch/HC32 21:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If you notice grammatical errors, please either initiate a discussion on the article's talk page or fix them. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 21:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Mitch:

Please see my response below to JenUK. Your re-write of the article contained numerous spelling and grammar errors. But your changes went far beyond that. You also removed many of the article's subtleties and unknowingly introduced errors. While all editors appreciate useful contributions, your re-writing of the entire article was unnecessary and did not show any understanding of the combined efforts of other Wikipedians. You then nominated it as a Good Article, which was inappropriate given the mistakes.

I would respectfully ask you to start from the article the way it is, then add in new biographical information to expand it. Wikipedia is about collaboration, not running roughshod over others' efforts. I welcome new information, and hope we can work together to improve it. I again apologize, but I hope you can appreciate my viewpoint.RadioBroadcast (talk) 04:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I went to the damn trouble of writing the article, giving it total expansion, and over 19 citations which were necessary. I don't agree with that second section that was in there. And I have grammar issues, so what, I've been here almost 4 years, I know what I am doing.Mitch/HC32 16:17, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Mitch:

While I can appreciate the effort you made, effort alone does not equal accurate, well-written content. And "I have grammar issues, so what?" is hardly the correct attitude to bring to en encyclopedic project, which casts doubt on your claim, "I know what I am doing," which also seems surprising for someone who has been on Wikipedia for four years.

Additionally, I have been a professional writer for 30 years, and I am quite familiar with Eddy Arnold. You may find it of interest that I knew Eddy Arnold. Your writing style, I repeat, lost many of the article's subtleties and introduced errors. Finally, I suggest reading the Wikipedia Editing Policy, Be cautious with major changes.

I again express the hope that we can find common ground for the good of the article. Why would you object to simply adding missing information (with citations, thank you for that), and then discussing any factual errors for correction? As Juliancolton notes, such decisions are properly made on the article's talk page.RadioBroadcast (talk) 22:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I know its the wrong attitude, but its not hard not to say. I work hard, but I know what I am doing. Just add info and fix errors. The reason I got ticked is you removed EVERYTHING. This could easily be solved if we just fixed the errors and added more. Mitch/HC32 22:27, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Mitch:

Thanks, I am open to what you suggest and I appreciate your collaborative attitude. Why don't you give your article a good going-over and spell-check and post it; and I'll propose changes to you if I believe the way you have put something needs some fine-tuning. RadioBroadcast (talk) 04:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry RadioBroadcast but you have completely the wrong attitude to edit on Wikipedia. You are no better than anyone else, no matter how many years experience of writing you have.. to be honest, nobody cares! Get off your high horse and take a long look at yourself and your reasons for being here before you continue editing. Anyone is welcome to contribute, regardless of writing skills. Jeni  ( talk )(Jenuk1985) 00:41, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear JenUK,

I thank you for your sharing your views. I agree that no one should care about anyone's expertise; my comments were only in response to Mitch's claims about his and in retrospect were not necessary. But I must take great issue with your implication I believe some contributors are not welcome to contribute! In fact, to quote my message above, "I welcome new information." My efforts clearly have been directed toward accommodating Mitch's input.

More importantly, however, with regard to your most recent message, I would urge you to review Wikipedia's Etiquette policy, with which you may not be familiar. I would remind you of your initial message to me: "Please do not attack other editors...Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users," which would seem to be at some variance with your last message. Thank you for your interest! RadioBroadcast (talk) 04:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing you weren't familiar with that policy with your original reverts? Jeni  ( talk )(Jenuk1985) 18:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear JenUK:

Thank you for your question. I'm hoping it has been an educational experience for all involved! My best wishes to you. RadioBroadcast (talk) 19:09, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

July 2009
Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Jeni ( talk )(Jenuk1985) 21:31, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Jenuk:

Thank you for your comment, which I can appreciate. I would take some exception, however, to the suggestion of a personal attack. The only negative word used was "unstable," based on the contributor's statements:

"As long as I stay on this medication, I don't think I will be making the suicidal or horribly drastic comments I've shown in the last 96 hours. Third, I am looking for a psychiatrist and am in the works of doing so, so please understand that if I am upset, don't try to make it worse, or I'll get worse. A lot of this has come to decision making for what I do in life. With the emergency desysop in April, I've gone ahead and made the decision that I don't want my adminship back, being I am just not mature enough. Secondly, I know I have attitude problems, so if you wish to help me or calm me down in a situation, be my guest. I am not mentally perfect, or running on 8 cylinders at the moment."

Far from attacking the contributor, my assessment was instead in agreement with his. Nevertheless, I fully agree it was a violation of Wikipedia policy Avoid personal remarks. I also note from Wikipedia's privacy policy "It is critical for editors to understand that, once they have added personal information about themselves to Wikipedia, there is no way to prevent its use or keep it from being seen," and I would suggest it is not unreasonable to at minimum review contributions made under such circumstances. I apologize to the contributor and regret any misunderstanding.RadioBroadcast (talk) 04:03, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * This was meant so I wouldn't be crucified for some remarks I made in June. I don't wanna be reviewed for actually putting up true information that it would make it easier to work with me.Mitch/HC32 16:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Your Comments at Talk:Springfield, Missouri
I just noticed your note to me at Talk:Springfield, Missouri regarding the "Criminals" section of the List of people from Springfield, Missouri. I apologize for the delay in responding as I do not have that page Watchlisted. On the question of whether the names should be removed from the List, which should really be posted on the List's Talk page, I re-state my original opinion that they should be removed. On a related note, I have posted a note regarding the ongoing discussion on the Talk page of User:SpringfieldMoCVB, a frequent contributor to articles relating to Springfield, Missouri. --TommyBoy (talk) 02:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image (File:Minnie Pearl.jpg)
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Reasons for failed GA
I forgot to put this down yesterday, so the error is mine.

The reason that Ozark Jubilee was quick failed is for the following reasons: Chris (talk) 15:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Use WP:CITET for marking your sources on a consistent basis.
 * 2) All of the images shown seem like they are forced. If they are in thumb, the size shown will take care of itself.
 * 3) On "Was the Jubilee "first"" section, where are the inline citations?
 * 4) On the "ABC-TV schedules" section, where on the inline citations on this any why is the early ABC-TV logo in this section?
 * 5) On the "Red Foley and the rise of Springfield", more inline citations are needed.
 * 6) On the "Cast" section, more inline citations are needed for all of the subsections, including "Cast" and "Guest stars". Change the $ to USD.
 * 7) In the "Patsy Cline" subsection, when in January 1956 did she debut on Ozark Jubilee?
 * 8) In the "Audience" section, premier misspelled. It should be premiere. Also list when the final Jubilee USA ticket date took place.
 * 9) For the "Production" section, the image of Foley, Disney, and Allison did not show up when printed. Why is that? Also, list the locations of the trio in the image caption shown. The University of Missouri does not need to be italicized per WP:MOS. An article for Bob Tubert needs to be created.
 * 10) Inline citations are needed for the "Kinescopes" section.
 * 11) Move the portals in the "See also" section to the "External links".
 * 12) The Don Baker link in the "External links" is a dead link. Please find another link for this if possible.
 * Let's hope these suggestions can help this article make it to GA status the next time around. Chris (talk) 03:13, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Re:Currency question
I see your point on the American currency. I guess I am thinking too much outside of Europe, the US, and the UK. If MOS states the use of the currency, go with that. Sorry about that. Chris (talk) 14:57, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

OK thank you! RadioBroadcast (talk) 15:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Multiple consecutive edits, edit summaries
Hi RB, welcome to Wikipedia, and thanks for all your contributions! I was glad to see I'm not the only one fighting the tidal wave of inappropriate capitalization in the U.S. I'd like to make a couple suggestions, if you don't mind. It will be easier for you and your co-editors to collaborate on articles if, instead of making multiple consecutive edits in rapid succession on an article, you use the "Show preview" button to view your changes incrementally before finally saving the page once you're satisfied with your edits. It also helps others watching those pages if you provide an edit summary. Thanks in advance for considering this. ps, you might get a kick out of this site: The "Blog" of "Unnecessary" Quotation MarksEric talk 20:02, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Help:Edit_summary promotes providing an edit summary when you make changes.
 * Help:Show_preview promotes minimizing the number of saves per edit session.

Eric, thank you very much for the reminder, you are right. I will be more careful.RadioBroadcast (talk) 22:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

List of People from Springfield, Missouri
I have posted follow up comments to our June, 2009 discussion regarding the "Criminals" section of the List of people from Springfield, Missouri. Please see the article's Talk page for further details. --TommyBoy (talk) 00:53, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

David "Stringbean" Akeman
Why did you change the color of the infobox? I believe Stringbean was more of a singer than a non vocal instrumentalist. Almost all of his recordings were vocal so the correct color would be a solo singer. --Popiloll (talk) 16:46, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Apologies; you likely know better than I do. I was not sure.  I have reverted.  Thank you. RadioBroadcast (talk) 17:59, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

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Re:Ozark Jubilee
On your questions from last night. For #11, I was not aware that the Portals were supposed to be at the "See also" section instead of the "External links" so the error is mine on this. For #2, I found this out on image size when I was having the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships 2009 undergo a GA Review itself back in March of this year when an editor told me that the images I had on the article looked forced. This user told me to leave the image in a thumbnail type size (See WP:IMAGE for details on this.). The image sizes can be adjusted by changing the picture size (px), but this reviewer from Norway told me to have images in without regard to the image. If you click on the edit button of the sections that have images for the article mentioned above, you should be able to see it. For #8, I see what you are talking about, so you can disregard that question. Sorry about that.

I hope this helps. Chris (talk) 13:01, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Chris: Very helpful, thank you! RadioBroadcast (talk) 02:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

RadioBroadcast, I rarely have time to use Wikipedia for personal gratification, so I am sorry that you have been so bothered by this. In response to "The suggestion is to move the parenthetical comment in the lead section regarding Nashville's business and revenues to the section, Red Foley and the Rise of Springfield", it would appear that someone has taken care of that already...perhaps yourself?

In response to: "The question concerns adding "arguably.": There's no proof that Ralph Foster was ever trying to supplant Nashville, and as a 35-year veteran of the entertainment and broadcast industry (and a former resident of southwest Missouri), I can tell you that it is absolutely ludicrous to make a claim that Springfield was, or ever has been, poised to take over Nashville. The billions of dollars routinely generated by the conglomerate music industry around Nashville make the millions produced in Springfield's most productive year(s) look pretty insignificant.

Let's be honest: Springfield is a nice place. At one time, it produced a number of talented people, nearly all of whom found their way to Nashville, New York, L.A., London, etc. It drew attention for semi-national and national radio, back when radio programming was live and difficult to produce. It even gave a home to a couple of nationally-aired TV series...which drew their audiences, largely, from Nashville-based talent. Mr. Foster was a good businessman, but he couldn't, if he were in his right mind, ever have dreamed of "taking over Nashville" with just the aforescribed resume. Whatever his dreams may have been, it certainly didn't happen, and Nashville hardly even noticed.

Go to Nashville, spend several weeks looking at the entire music machine that covers three counties, and you'll agree. User:moproducer (User talk:moproducer) 21:31, 27 October 2009