User talk:Raj.Tiwari

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Mahitgar 17:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Invitation and Recommendations for writing articles on Hindi Wikipedia
 Hindi wikipedia invites and welcomes Wikipedians to contribute for the cause of spreading knowledge and the Hindi language. This page contains guidelines for writing a wiki-article on any topic at the Hindi Wikipedia, with special recommendations for writing in Hindi (Note: The script/font-family for Hindi is Devanāgari; the script/font-system for English is Roman script, also, the Hindi spelling system is not completely standardized). This article is yet in English language (mostly), in order to encourage even non-native/foreign people who have learnt/are learning Hindi to contribute to the Hindi wikipedia, and native Hindi speakers who normally write in English. The examples given below are only for explanation.

Recommendations:
 * 1) Firstly for proper viewing, it is recommended to keep all links NOT-UNDERLINED. Otherwise the मात्रा below the Hindi alphabets might get partly hidden behind the underlines. For this, please go to My Preferences (मेरी पसंद) at the top of the page, then click Misc., and then choose "underline links -> Never". Save your settings. Also, do not click yes for "justify paragraphs", otherwise on some browsers, the devanagari script will appear highly distorted.
 * 2) All users are requested and encouraged to contribute articles here, especially, to create new articles on general topics. They are also encouraged to expand the existing articles, and improve upon them. A non-user can also do the same; it is recommended but not required to register yourself as a wikipedian user at the Hindi wikipedia. As far as possible, each article should be written with a Neutral Point of View (NPOV)—no nationalistic or partiality or hatred based articles are welcome. The articles should be based on facts—and appropriate references should be provided as and where needed. See the English wiki's help page for editing in general. Almost all the general wiki-features are available for editing on Hindi wiki too. Guidelines for the content matter is mostly the same as given in English wiki.
 * 3) Since the Hindi wiki is at its initial stages, users are welcome to take introduction and basic points from the English (or another) wikipedia's corresponding article and translate them for small articles. An in-page link to the English wiki's article will be deemed sufficient for references (a template might be created stating this). For longer articles, it is recommended to mention the references separately.
 * 4) Since most computer users in India and elsewhere have the standard Western-type keyboard, it is best recommended (but not necessarily required) to use the virtual (software) keyboard like the one of Hindimozhi or of ISIS (Tavultesoft Keyman)—which are freewares. These are advantageous because the contemporary Hindi-speakers in India often write messages/chat using Hindi words but written in Roman (English) script, and the layout of these keyboards is quite the same that such people use. For example, using the "normal" keyboard with this software, typing ga would give ग and ghaa would give घा.
 * 5) Create the article with its name written in Hindi (devanagari script). Always take care to include the nukta (dot below) for foreign / Urdu loanwords wherever it occurs in the standard spelling. For non-Indian names, use that spelling (for article name and other words) which is commonly encountered in Hindi newspapers, G.K.-books, Hindi-dubbed TV documentaries and Hollywood films and magazines. e.g., America-अमरीका (या अमेरिका), China-चीन, French-फ़्रांसिसी. For English acronyms/short-forms, use the initials in Roman script, and again create a full form in Hindi and redirect it to the short form. e.g. IPA (अन्तर्राष्ट्रीय ध्वनि वर्णाक्षर); UNO (संयुक्त राष्ट्र संघ). Doing the opposite is also fine. But creating the article with the Hindi short form, as सं०रा०सं०, is not recommended. Also, the article proper must be written with the proper nukta, as फ़ारसी, and then, a non-nukta (mis-)spelt version फारसी should preferably be created to redirect to the correct spelling.
 * 6) Hindi wikipedia strongly recommends the users to write articles in everyday common Hindi in the खड़ीबोली dialect (Hindustani or Hindi-Urdu, i.e., बोलचाल वाली हिन्दी, which may include many loanwords from Persian and Arabic). The use of शुद्ध संस्कृतनिष्ठ हिन्दी is in general neither required nor recommended. E.g., use: वजह instead of कारण, ख़ास instead of विशेष, वगैरह instead of इत्यादि, लेकिन instead of परन्तु etc. However, for technical and specialized vocabulary, the use of शुद्ध संस्कृतनिष्ठ हिन्दी  is recommended and usually mandatory. Thus: upper House of Parliament—संसद का उच्च सदन, but not Urdu—मजिलिस का ऐवान-ए-बाला ; Foreign Minister—विदेशमन्त्री, but not Urdu—वज़ीर-ए-ख़ारिजा ; knowledge/science—ज्ञान/विज्ञान, but not इल्म. Use spoken Hindi's ये and वो instead of यह and वह / वे. Do not use the title of respect जी after names, it is unencyclopedic. Thus: कृष्ण / श्री कृष्ण but not कृष्ण जी. Use the आप form and its corresponding 3rd person verbal conjugation for writing about respectable persons. Thus: श्री वाजपेयी मध्य प्रदेश में जन्मे थे. But not: वाजपेयी मध्य प्रदेश में जन्मा था. But do not use the pronoun "आप" itself in-text in biographies.
 * 7) English should be used sparingly, only when required; i.e., if the corresponding शुद्ध हिन्दी word is too "difficult and not generally encountered", or if it is a proper name of non-Indian person/place/terminology/title, or if the user is highly unsure of the proper translation. It is recommended (but not required) for English-to-Hindi translation while writing articles, the Shabdkosh online dictionary should be used. For each English word, that alternative should be used which is generally encountered in everyday spoken Hindi, and also fits well into the context. Use of intelligent guesses for newly encountered words is also allowed, and so are translations encountered in Hindi-dubbed TV documentaries, Hollywood films, Hindi-translated books, etc. e.g., दमपिशाच for en:Dementor (used in dubbed HP films).
 * 8) If used, it is recommended to use the English words within the articles using the English (Roman) alphabets rather than devanagari (or better, the devanagari transliteration should be used in the sentence, followed by the English word in Roman alphabet in parentheses). Such words should be italicized and not put in quotation marks. Preferably, there should be an in-page interwiki link (like :en:) on the word to the English wikipedia. If the word comes as an integral part of a sentence, so as not to break the continuity, the en: prefix should be hidden by writing the word again after the pipe sign (piped link). Thus, recommended:  Whence,
 * 9) *हैरी पॉटर ने Pensieve के अन्दर Little Hangleton गाँव में लॉर्ड वोल्डेमॉर्ट की माँ Merope Gaunt को देखा
 * 10) *Resplendent Quetzal पक्षी के ऊपर एक मेक्सिकन पादरी डा० Pablo de la Llave ने काफ़ी शोध किया था
 * 11) Always start the first 1 or 2 lines of the article giving its definition (from any standard dictionary/other wiki) or suitable introduction. Thus, recommended: ललिता सहस्रनामन हिन्दू धर्मसुधारक आदि शंकराचार्य द्वारा रचित देवी दुर्गा को समर्पित एक पूजा-मन्त्र है, जिसे कई हिन्दू रोज़ श्रद्धा से जपते हैं । But not: ललिता सहस्रनामन मन्त्र जपने के लिये लड्डू-पेड़ा, ताम्बुल, सिन्दूर, लाल चुनरी के साथ नित्य इस मन्त्र का पाठ करें, तो जल्द ही गड़ा हुआ ख़जाना मिलेगा । Recommended: वैमानिक अभियान्त्रिकी (en:Aeronautical engineering) विमानों (en:Aircrafts) की अभिकल्पना, निर्माण और प्रचालन करने का विज्ञान, कला और कार्य है । (translated from Eng. Webster's New World Dictionary). But not: आजकल वैमानिक अभियान्त्रिकी के लिये देशभर में कई कॉलेज खुल गये हैं, जिनमें अग्रणी स्थान यूटोपिया स्थित लालू-यादव टेक्लिनक कॉलेज का है ।
 * 12) For names of countries, cities, places, languages, people, books, films, technical vocabulary, mythology, etc, start the article like this:
 * 13) * 1.
 * 14) * 2.
 * 15) * 3. phonological transcription
 * 16) * 4.  For country names, only the standard short form of the name is needed in the first line. If there is a common name for a difficult word in Hindustani, also mention it. Whence: अपोलो (अंग्रेज़ी : en:Apollo; यूनानी : Aπollων अपोल्लोन) प्राचीन यूनानी धर्म (ग्रीक धर्म) और प्राचीन रोमन धर्म के सर्वोच्च देवता थे । If you don't give the interwiki English/another language link (which would be deemed to be the default reference), then you MUST provide an appropriate reference.
 * 17) Please leave no article without an appropriate category. See the list of created categories here; you can also make a new category (pref. in Hindi). Please leave no article without at least ONE off page (like en:) interwiki link. E.g., the user can check the article name (say Apollo) on the finally redirected English page and append to the Hindi article . These interlanguage links will help a bot to update all interwiki links for that article in all wikipedias. The category and the aforementioned link should be typed at the end of the article. If the article is very small, mention it as a stub/substub.
 * 18) Use of templates is welcome. See the list of templates here. If creating a template, name it pref. in Hindi.
 * 19) Use पूर्णविराम ( । ) instead of a period (.) for ending statements. The पूर्णविराम, semicolon, colon and dash (but not comma) must come after one space after the word to prevent ambiguity. Use the international form of the Hindu-Arabic numerals (1,2,3 instead of १,२,३), as used by the Constitution and the Government of India (even for Hindi). There is no need to use the हलन्त at the end of Sanskrit words wherever it occurs. Hence, prefer: संसद over संसद्; अथर्वन over अथर्वन्. Use the proper quotation marks “” from the Insert toolbox, not "". Write dates as 2 मई 2006 (ईसवी or ईसापूर्व). Write time as 3:45 pm. Separate common suffix-words like शास्त्र, विज्ञान, ज्ञान with a hyphen. Thus: रसायन-शास्त्र. For most others, leave both the words of the noun-cluster free. Combine them into one word only if it is very common to do so. Thus: सामवेद.
 * 20) The use of ज़ for the en:voiced alveolar fricative (/z/, as in zoo, rose) is fundamentally wrong. Its nearest counterpart is the en:voiceless alveolar fricative /s/ (as in sea), and not Hindi ज (en:voiced palatal plosive). Hence, it is suggested and recommended that for the sound /z/, whether it comes in English (etc.) spellings (z) for while pronunciation otherwise, should be transcribed as स़ (स with a dot below, available in the Insert toolbox). Hence: Reason रीस़न, not रीज़न ; Roses रोस़ेस़, not रोज़ेज़. But common Hindi words borrowed from Persian/Arabic (so-called Urdu words) are allowed to continue with ज़ spelling. Thus: ज़रा, नज़र, तर्ज़. The en:voiced postalveolar fricative (/ʒ/ as in treasure), inexistent in Hindi, can similarly be transcribed with श़. Thus: treasure ट्रॅश़र. The nukta (dot) available in the Insert toolbox can be combined with various consonants to suggest a more exact phonetic devanagari rendering of foreign sounds. E.g., since phonetically, English Think and this are not equal to थिंक and दिस, a better transcription could be थ़िंक and द़िस. Please take care of the dot below in so-called Urdu words, otherwise the Hindi spelling is deemed incorrect.
 * 21) For the following English vowels met, mate, mat, transcribe as मॅट (short vowel), मेट (not मेइट), मैट (not मॅट, as popular in Marathi). However in contemporary Hindi and here, it is acceptable to use ए instead of ऍ. Thus: अमेरिका is more popular than अमॅरिका. For cot, coat, caught, transcribe as कॉट, कोट, कॉट (not कौट). Transcribe English /t/ and /d/ as ट and ड.
 * 22) Use half-न before त, थ, द, ध, न, instead of anuswaar अं. Use half-म before प, फ, ब, भ, म. Use the anuswaar before all the rest of the consonants (not half-ङ, ञ, ण). If the मात्रा is not above the alphabet, use chandra-bindu, but only for nasalization. Thus: अन्दर, not अंदर ; अन्त, not अंत ; हिन्दी, not हिंदी ; सम्भव, not संभव ; पंचमी, not पञ्चमी ; अंडा, not अण्डा ; कंठ, not कण्ठ ; लैंड, not लैण्ड ; आँख, not आंख. However, both forms are acceptable in contemporary Hindi as well as here; the prec. are just recommendations.
 * 23) When proceded by another vowel, use the pure vowels instead of य (unless the य is clearly articulated while pronouncing). Thus : जाएँ, not जायें (not जावें) ; आएगा, not आयेगा . However, both forms are acceptable in contemporary Hindi as well as here.
 * 24) Please pay careful attention to the masculine/feminine gender (and singular/plural) in adjectives and verbs, else the sentence becomes ungrammatical.

For more information/suggestions/criticisms, please contact any one of the administrators of Hindi wiki here, preferably en:User:Magicalsaumy.

This page can also be found here. Thank you,

Cygnus_hansa 02:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

1857
Well said on the war of independence of 1857. +10 000 thundering typhoons 18:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC)+
 * Thanks. --Raj 21:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Mangal Pandey edits
Hi, Raj--

Thanks for letting me know your concerns about my recent edit to the Mangal Pandey entry. I have now now explained my motivation for the edit on the talk page for that article. (As you note, this is something I should have done in the first place. Sorry about any misunderstanding that caused.)

Best, Jacobw 16:06, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Indian Rebellion of 1857
Dear Raj, thanks for preserving my edits. I should have noticed myself that User:Christchurch had removed important and relevant material. I hope you don't think that all Englishmen behave in this way. Sikandarji 22:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Dear Sikandarji, I have just taken a look at the discussion page of this gentleman and at one of the pages where he carried a discussion. I suppose one could also call it a verbal amok-run. It is actually unbelievable how the gentleman in question conducts himself and what language, a lecturer in History at some respected institutions as per his own statement, uses to discuss with people. It seems to be his favourite pastime to accuse people of other nationalities of being "nationalists", see e.g. Talk:World War II evacuation and expulsion. Nonetheless, I indeed was a bit surprised that you did not react to his changes. But I must admit, I also did not notice the changes at first glance. It would be nice, if you could also keep an eye on such uncalled-for, biased edits. I think, we have done a pretty good work in previous weeks and should not allow disruptive people to damage it. And no, I surely don't think that all Englishmen behave like this. I know many of them personally too well to get such an idea. Bye. --Raj 00:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry that you do not approve of my forthright comments. Sometimes what I read on the Wikipedia makes me furious that history can be turned on its head so publicly. Nevertheless my remarks on nationalists using the Wikipedia in order to present a biased or slanted version of history remain my yardstick. Your personal comments are just very rude. Christchurch 10:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I suppose one needs to understand and accept that history of the one is not necessarily the history of the other. Histories are often written by the victorious so that ceratin favourable aspects are highlighted, the uncomfortable ones relegated. Therefore, one ought to remain broad-minded enough to allow the presentation of the other point of view, even if one may or may not share that opinion. And that's what we have been trying to do on the issue of the 1857 rebellion. If the history of this great revolt would begin and end with the narration of the contemporary British view, then we may as well stop doing any further research. For the ultimate truth on the matter would have already been spoken. But then we will have to exclude the opinions of even contemporary moderate writers such as Malleson who acknowledged a social/national angle of the mutiny and in fact dwelled greatly on this aspect. To this day, historians and scholars have been unable to reach a conclusive agreement on the so-called "facts" of the then events. Indisputable and unchallenged facts about the course of the 1857 mutiny are not many. It is therefore but imperative that on a neutral platform like Wikipedia diverging views on "supposed facts" with conflicting views are presented. Putting these views together in an impartial, unbiased manner, we have been trying to give the reader a chance to build his or her own opinion based on a large collection of thoughts/facts. But when you selectively delete portions of an article that could be thought unfavourable to your idea of the things, you are probably betraying your own inclinations. Who would be a "nationalist" in this case? PS: I did not intend to be personally offensive to you. I only wished to reject that one-sided, arrogant deletion of information which was put together in an interesting yet painstaking discussion/process. Your comments posted were also not exactly overflowing with humbleness. However, I say sorry in case I have hurt your feelings on a personal level. --Raj 18:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I am 50 years old. I have been a historian since entering college. The 1857 Mutiny has been chronicled by countless people ever since it happened. It is fatuous to suggest that all these individuals were writing from the position of a victor or were nationalists. In fact a great many of the British writers were very pro-Indian. It is an Indian nationalist stance that all British are somehow ghastly and that all British history of India is somehow totally biased. A great many of our families spent time, even generations in india, and are very fond of India and the Indians. The article pages are not meant for discussion or personal opinions, and this is a standard Wikipedia guideline. That is what the Talk Pages are for. You cite my comments on another page, but I stand by them. Those pages are a travesty of the well-documented facts. I am sorry that we must agree to disagree. Christchurch 07:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a cite for Ishwari Panday rather than Ishwari Prasad? Most if not all the sources I have suggest it was Ishwari Prasad srs 02:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Almost all the literature that I know refers to "Ishwari Pandey" and to the fact that the mutineers were for that reason collectively referred to as "Pandies". You can read e.g. "The Great Mutiny" by Malleson (Rupa, 2005, Delhi), who was stationed at that time at Calcutta. You can also have a look at:

http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/univercity/the_trial_of_mangal_pandey_i.html http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050911/asp/calcutta/story_5223117.asp If I am not seriously mistaken, you can also consult Tapti Roy's "Politics of a popular uprising: Bundelkhand in 1857". Anyway, I request you not to delete information just arbitrarily. If you go through the Talk page you will see that I have done a lot of neutral, editing work on that page. So please treat others also as if they can be neutral. If you have any doubts, you could surely put them on the Talk page, especially after my reverting the name back to Pandey. --Raj 17:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)