User talk:Ramallite/Archive1

Welcome!
""

Here are some open tasks that you may want to help out :

""

If you have any questions or doubts, don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Once again, welcome! =)

- Mailer Diablo 14:50, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

West Bank barrier
The language was highly emotive, and deceptive. Only a very small minority of the barrier, for examples, consists of a "25-foot cement structure". Language like "Warsaw ghetto", etc. is deliberately inflammatory. You state personal feelings as if they are cited facts (e.g. "their international humilation", "placing an entire nation in a series of cages is hardly a prescription for peace", "leaves little doubt among Palestinians and foreign peace activists that the real purpose of the wall is for Israel to grab as much land as possible", "caging them" etc.). As well, your additions to the accusations of apartheid section had nothing to do with accusations of apartheid itself, but rather were a repeat of various grievances found in the rest of the text. Jayjg (talk) 20:26, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

After the accords they became Arafat's headquarters; this is completely accurate and neutral. "Arafat's Compound" is how it has been described in English, not just Western media, and this is English Wikipedia. Temple Mount is both the common English name and the Wikipedia name for the Temple Mount. Israel Defense Forces, short form IDF, is the legal, common, and Wikipedia name, not "Israel Occupation Forces" or whatever other POV names you have been inserting, in an attempt to delete their name. You can call them all whatever you like in Arabic Wikipedia, but in English Wikipedia you have to follow English usage and Wikipedia standards. Finally, the IDF alleged "terrorist" activities, not "resistance" activities, and they were looking for "illegal" weapons, not legal ones; you can't put words in their mouths. Jayjg (talk) 22:08, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your contribution to the West Bank Wall article! As you may have noticed browsing the Israel/Palestine articles, we need contributors with a good knowledge of the sources to provide more background from a non-Israel perspective.  Good on you for braving the revert wars. Tedneeman 08:35, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks, yeah I'm beginning to realize how tedious it is to confront some POVs that write in the name of being NPOVs. I'll do my best! Ramallite (talk) 14:25, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wikiportal Palestine
Check out the new Palestine portal here.Yuber(talk) 22:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

West Bank
Hi. You say "After the 1967 Six-Day War, during which Israel captured the West Bank, Palestinians living there had the right to apply for Jordanian passports". I thought Palestinians living in the West Bank had the right to apply for Jordanian passports before 1967 as well? Or am I forgetting something? - Mustafaa 19:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Oh - they were definitely eligible for passports before 1967 as well, but I considered that a matter of fact since the West Bank was annexed by Jordan and all West Bankers were considered Jordanians between 1948 and 1967. Between 1948 and 1988, in fact. Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to edit. Ramallite (talk) 20:16, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks. And welcome to Wikipedia!  There are all too few editors on Palestine-related topics who really know what they're talking about (and I'm not necessarily claiming to be one of them!) and all too many POV warriors. Keep up the good work. - Mustafaa 20:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

State of Palestine
I thought your edits to the Wikiportal were very neutral and factual. Perhaps you would like to make those same edits to the main article. I tried but Jayjg keeps reverting me. Yuber(talk) 20:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Will try to do so as soon as I finish editing this cancer research paper I'm working on (not for Wikipedia) :) Thanks Ramallite (talk) 20:13, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Uganda (Kenya) project
Zionist projects to bring Jews to Palestine started in the 1880s, long before 1903, when the Uganda (Kenya) idea was proposed by the British. This idea was rejected, but then re-considered as an emergency/temporary measure after the Kishinev progroms. Even then the idea was hugely controversial, and the best the proponents were able to muster support for was that a committee was created to look into the idea. Needless to say, it never went anywhere. As for the focus of the paragraph, I hear what you're saying, but would an "Aliyah" heading be any better? Jayjg (talk) 14:53, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've tried out your third suggestion; let's see if it gets reverted. ;-) Jayjg (talk) 18:05, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Another thing
Just made Notice board for Palestine-related topics; it might come in handy. - Mustafaa 20:31, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Al-Aqsa Intifada
Good addition there about the 13 Israeli Arabs. Important thing that should have been included in the article a long time ago. One of the many facts that need to be added to I-P articles but get obscured by endless POV warring. Not sure what you exactly mean by "his memory was treated as an example of hope for peaceful coexistence," though. Was Azmi Bishara (needs a bio here I noticed) hurt then or is that a hallucination? Oh, and welcome from another newbie.--John Z 05:33, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bodansky and other sources are quite clear that the visit was pre-approved by Internal Security Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami,  Palestinian security chief Jabril Rajoub, and Arafat. Apparently still other sources disagree with that. I think everyone agrees that at least some Palestinian and American officials asked Barak to forbid the visit, and that Barak declined to do so as he saw it as internal politicking by a rival. Jayjg (talk) 28 June 2005 21:49 (UTC)

Ramallah
Are you sure about the "Civil Administration" running things for the next 3 decades? I believe it was only created in the late 70s / early 80s, and the territories were under direct military control (run by e.g. Moshe Dayan) before. I think there are many more readers than editors by the way; perhaps such statistics are compiled. --John Z 4 July 2005 07:09 (UTC)

Palestinian territories
Hey there, I was wondering if you could help me out with this. There was no mention of the road map for peace in this article and I tried to include it but somehow people think it is "biased" and "pov" to mention the road map. I find it very alarming that any mention of working for peace in the region is somehow "biased".Heraclius 7 July 2005 17:19 (UTC)

Gaza Strip
Ramallite, I liked your writing at Gaza Strip. It's good to see editors who care about writing quality. I hope we'll see a lot more of it. ;-) SlimVirgin (talk) 02:33, July 14, 2005 (UTC)


 * I tried. Let's see what people's reaction is.  I'm sure there's still room for improvement (I'm not happy with the very 1st sentence myself), but, with the Israel precedent fresh in mind (1st para: "The population of Israel is predominantly Jewish with a large non-Jewish minority, mostly comprising Muslim, Christian, and Druze Arabs") I'm sure no one will seriously argue against mentioning the population again. - Mustafaa 00:43, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

History of Palestine
I'm planning to gradually get some of User:Mustafaa/Notes on Palestinian history into various articles to fill the more gaping holes; you might be interested. - Mustafaa 01:52, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Iman_Darweesh_Al_Hams
Take a look at this article. I thought Jaygj's version of it was pretty NPOV but here comes a POV warrior doing a total rewrite of it.Heraclius 04:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Good job, your version looks good to me; I added another link with more tape evidence you might use in the first section; was thinking of sending you some links I got from the blog http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2005/02/the_bart_simpso.html#more, as I didn't feel up to doing the edits myself, but see you have got some of them already.--John Z 09:00, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


 * This is a bit late, but I missed your comment about "letting you know what I think". Your edits were good but like you said it's not as truthful as it could be.Heraclius 05:23, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Elwan
Hi! FYI, I responded at WP:IFD. Regards. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 05:35, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Nablus
The combative editor Guy Montag has inserted his POV (which is of course that Nablus is not a Palestinian city) into the article. I need help dealing with this guy because he never uses the talkpage.Heraclius 20:54, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * He's back at it again, except this time he's rewriting the entire article. He's still adamant about maintaining that Nablus is not a "Palestinian city" but rather a "city with a large Palestinian population".  My version contains useful parts of his but he just reverted me a 3rd time.Heraclius 05:22, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This is my version .Heraclius 17:07, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Ramallite, would you mind reviewing and responding somewhere to my comment regarding the naming controversy? Tomer TALK 22:06, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making sure to assuage any doubts I might have had about your intentions. Don't worry about it.  I try my best to make sure I understand what's going on before I impute intent and react to it.  I'm pretty outspoken, and sometimes get a bit pissy, but to truly offend me takes desire, skill and persistence most people lack.  :-)  Kol tov.  Tomer TALK  03:38, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Hello
Hi, Ramallite, I am pleased to meet you. --Eric Forste (Talk) 07:19, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Let me know when you do start an article on Ramallah Friends School. I've found that working on articles about things I'd like to learn more about has always been a real good way to learn stuff. As for that guy whose remarks above I've tried to read charitably, it's amazing how many people who live near Ramallah commit idolatry toward the land itself. You'd think that monotheists would be saved from violent schism by common faith in a single God, who will bring them into unity and peace with one another if heeded. But then, we're human creatures. --Eric Forste (Talk) 08:08, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Nablus
I am afraid I cannot do that, Ramallite, since having edited the article, I am an involved party now. You could put a note at WP:RFP, but which version will be protected will then be a matter of coincidence. It will be better to rely on the WP:3RR to keep the reverting down. regards, dab (ᛏ) 14:12, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for the thanks, Ramallite, and you're welcome. I just hope it ends up being useful. Cheers, SlimVirgin (talk) 05:14, August 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * I've put up a suggested compromise for the intro. Perhaps you could let me know if you have any thoughts. SlimVirgin (talk)  19:29, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Ibrahim the Great
Your user page sentence about Ibrahim the Great totally cracked me up. Do we have an article somewhere about this genius? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:49, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Requesting help in dispute over the article on the Apartheid Wall
Hi Ramallite, could you intercede in a dispute I have with an administrator? Please see the talk page of the article on the Apartheid Wall, near the end of the discussion of "the Wall as Colonial Project" (which has already gone on far too long). Thanks, Jude--142.150.48.163 00:08, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Racism in the interior ministry
The Interior Ministry said it was because there were questions about the Jewishness of many of the people making `aliya from those 3 countries, but since the Rabanuth is a more reliable source of information as to who is and who isn't Jewish, and the Rabanuth says "they're Jews" and the Interior Minister is/was run by Shinui, that rationale is disingenuous at best. As far as I'm aware, nobody outside the Ministry bought the excuse. Tomer TALK 21:28, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind, that while the Interior Ministry said these peoples' Jewishness was dubious, and therefore restricted their immigration, they didn't bother to restrict `aliya from Russia or the rest of the FSU, where a lot of people are making `aliya who the sokhnuth knows full well aren't Jewish at all, and don't even claim to be... From the FSU, tho, they're white.  From Perú, they're mostly Inca Indians, from Ethiopia, they're blacks (Beta Israel), and from India, they're either Cochin Jews, who are black Indians, or the Bnei Menashe, who are orientals.  This makes even more dubious the rationale given by the Interior Ministry.  Tomer TALK  21:41, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

מה לעשות? אין לי מושג :-| ... שבת שלום... תומר Tomer TALK 21:47, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Palestinian Cities
My objection is pressupposing that certain cities belong to Palestinians when the Israeli Palestinian conflict is not even near over and nothing has been decided. There is supposedly some sort of "peace process" happening, and an organization that has been handed over interim and conditional control over certain cities is the Palestinian Authority, which is a quasi governmental body, but not a national body. The erreneous logic that you or others apply that because I object to having Palestinian before cities means de facto that "Jewish" or "Israeli" is there instead, is both ridiculous and bordering on paranoia. Bethlehem is an ancient city, and claiming that it "belongs" to Palestinians is revisionist pov.

Guy Montag 00:00, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Mind weighing in?
Talk:Bethlehem Tomer <sup style="font-size:x-small; color:#129DBC;">TALK  21:58, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Jenin
The Guy / Jayg / Humuus crew are again engaged in a "Gang Revert War" on "soft methods" on the Jenin article - have a look will you? 62.252.0.6 00:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

ليش خجلان هيك؟
Surely it must bve possible to expand the Palestine article from a disambiguation page. I have been thinking about this for a while, but haven't got myself up to doing anything. Nevertheless, it clearly makes sense that this should be the primary article that deals with the considerations treated in detail on articles like Palestine (region), Palestinian culture, etc. Of course Palestinian territories needs work, but it is ludicrous that Palestine should be a dismabiguation page. Ireland provides an example of dealing with something that is widely considered a country but isn't a state. If you feel like trying to work on this article, I'll be more than happy to help as far as I can. Palmiro | Talk 08:46, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Har Homa
You might like to take a look at this. There are a couple of people trying to push a POV here as well, and at the moment I have no time for Wikipedia: I'm due to move to Beirut next week, even though I'd far sooner stay in Damascus! I don't think I'll be around much for the next five or six weeks. Palmiro | Talk 15:37, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

iMac peer review
Hi there, Ramallite I see that you've contributed to the Apple computer article. I've recently edited the iMac article and put it up for peer review; but beyond owning an iMac, and loving it, I have little in-depth knowledge on the topic, historically or technically. I wonder whether you have time to read it and add your critical comments at the peer review page? Tony 08:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Hey Ramallite, nice edits to iMac! Thanks; maybe this will eventually be a featured article. Tony 05:14, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Arabic question - assistance requested
I originally posted this question to Mustafaa, but he hasn't replied yet, think he may still be away...

There's a dispute at the Al-Qaeda article due to the translation of "database." You may have heard of the Robin Cook article in the Guardian, which stated that the name of Al-Qaeda was due to its origin as a CIA database. Some have tried to exclude this from the article on the basis that it's not the right translation for "database," but I have heard that the word "qaeda" can mean "base" in any sence of the English word. So could you weigh in there as to whether or not the word "qaeda" would be used in Arabic to mean "database" (or as a shortened form of the word "database," like the English "base" as a shortening of "database.") Thanks!

Blackcats 22:04, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you are, O son of Ibrahim
He thought you were Guy! :-) John Z 05:00, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Arabic pronounciations
Hi there Ramalite, I'm currently working on recording Hebrew pronounciations of several terms and places related to the Israel/Palestine topic. I already uploaded some media files, for example in Dead Sea, Sea of Galilee, Israel, West Bank Barrier, etc. I thought it would be useful to have an Arabic pronounciation of those terms as well. I speak Arabic, but my accent is terrible and I don't even want to attempt that. So, since you speak Palestinian Arabic, will it be possible for you to record and upload as well? Thanks, Itamar 01:50, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi again. I'd like to thank you for your contribution in that matter so far :-) . How about we focus on more cities, for example Al-Khalil/Hevron, Nablus/Shechem, Beth She'an/Baysan, etc? Itamar 19:15, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Well done. A solution for the problem you mentioned would be to underline the English transcription of the word. Itamar 16:35, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Territories under Israeli control
Ramallite, would you mind taking a look at the Territories under Israeli control article? I'd like to ensure that the Palestinian perspective is properly represented, and, being Palestinian, I thought you'd be a good candidate for doing that. Jayjg <small style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 18:11, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I just looked a minute ago, and the West Bank and Gaza Strip stuff was there, so maybe it was a cache problem. Jayjg <small style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 06:49, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Talk page
No worries. ;-) SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 15:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Aqsa
In Hebrew, there is 'ts' in Aqsa (אקצה). Toya 12:47, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Al Majdal
No apologies needed. I thought maybe I was the one who was missing something. Quale 05:39, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

E-mail
Ramallite, did you get my e-mail? SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 07:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I've sent another one. SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 07:22, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

a suggestion
I want to take this opportunity to great you for Ramadan.

an editor above wrote to you on the subject of the barrier

"The language was highly emotive, and deceptive. Only a very small minority of the barrier, for examples, consists of a "25-foot cement structure". Language like "Warsaw ghetto", etc. is deliberately inflammatory."

You may be too close to this subject. Is the barrier affecting you personaly ?

I have wrote to you when we started that I am not in favor of the current barrier route. I work with human rights groups that object the barrier route. I also work with the UN and this give me direct knowledge on the barrier. I am not using my direct knowledge (since this would be "original research") but I suggest that we both use only crediable sources (like UN, courts etc..) and avoid using propeganda (like NAD). I am sure that if you look at NAD material you see it is a propeganda pamphlet. You seem like a rational and intelgent person (you have better english than mine) so it is not respectfull to use a propeganda material in what supposed to be an unbiased encyclopedia. This is my suggestion but this is up to you.

Alla Yesalmach. Zeq 14:18, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your note.

I think you wrote Qaalandya but you ment Qalqiliya. Anyhow, I happend to be there many times.

It was removed in Jan 2004, but restored for short time in around April 2004 and removed again for good. The reason is that the wall was completed on both sides and thus movment in and out of the city was all on the Palestinian side of the wall without direct access to israel (unlike what it was before the wall was set up)

So Israel did not removed it because of a good heart but because militarly it was not needed any more.

The UN reports clearly sais so. The Aug 2005 report just happaned to use an old map.

I can assure you that current UN maps do not show a checkpoint on the road east from Qalqliya toward Azun.

There are two checkpoints near by on the way from Qalqliya and Azun toward israel. These are gates at the wall. But access from the town toward the east is unrestricted at all.

As you know, al over the west bank there are flying checkpoints so maybe this is what your photo shows.

Honestly, I do not understand how this does not convince you:

"The previous Barrier route had approximately 93,200 West Bank Palestinians living between the Green Line and Barrier. The reduction in population is due to an easing of the closures in Qalqiliya (population 45,800). While the city remains encircled by the Barrier, the checkpoint at the entrance of Qalqiliya is not manned."

Do you have someone in Qalaqliya. call them and ask them.

Now as to the effect on Palestinians.

I think you need to talk to people in Qalqiliya.

Until Sep 2000 they were very happy.

After Sep 2000 and until the wall was finished they were under tight military control.

But now, the commerce is back again, some got permits to work in israel etc... So of course it is not as good as it was in 2000 but it is a lot better than 2003.

On the Israeli side things are the same. 2002, 2003 were the worst but it is now a lot better but not as good as before 2000.

You seem like a n educated person. You really think court decision means nothing on the Israeli side ? You really think court descisions are the same as NAD propeganda (we both know NAD is propeganda)

Look at what the court did in changing the route. Look at how they critisize the Israeli goverment.

NAD was never critical of anything the palestinian side did. NAD was not ale to stop any follish Palestinian act. NAD was not able to change the barrier route.

But the Israeli court did.

So there is great difference and I wish you that one day you will live in a country that have courts that makes a difference.

Zeq 16:18, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Shoter
I saw what you did in shotretening the reason for the barrier by removing all redrences to suicide bombing etc... So if you make something shorter you will need to apply similar tools. You may think that 5k"m detour must be terrible but to mention a "human guided bomb" must be POV......

In Any case, the barrier had different impact on Palestinian, ease of movment on one hand (inside the west bank) and restrictions (going into israel, crossing the barrier in places where it is between Palestinian areas) on the other hand. Over all it brought back the quiet, something both people enjoy and the quiet facilitaed the Gaza exit - Don't you think ?

Zeq 21:28, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Talk:White Paper of 1939
Hi, would you care to take a look at this page? I just don´t understand what they mean. Also, do you know how we can get Edward Said into "Category:Palestinian people" -he is in the Pal. writer category, so he should be in the people category too, should´t he? (I just don´t know how to do it) Thanks, & regards, Huldra 22:30, 6 October 2005 (UTC) Ps; I liked the edit you did under "Israel": "historic" sounds much, much better than "important". Btw: did you note that all Israel/zionist articles referred to the homeland in connection with the Balfour declaration, istead of the correct "national home"? Interesting. ;-)
 * Hi, & thanks for the edit you did in this article, it was definitely an improvement, but as a whole the article is still pretty messy, IMO. I´ll try to work on it later. Also: thanks for your E. Said edit; I´m thinking of starting a "Sabri Geries" article (or stub, more likely) -eventually- and then I´ll just copy your edit :-) Anyway: more work to do: I do not know how to remove/change a "redirect page" -or even if we should do so (I think so) -but take a look at: Talk:Balfour Declaration, 1917 Regards, Huldra 23:56, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, and thanks for your note. Yes, I can see that you are kept busy over at "the Wall", I just wish you the best of luck and hope you don´t become completely worn down by it. As for the redir on the Jewish National Homeland, I changed it, but not to another redir. (If you want to know why, see Talk:Balfour Declaration, 1917.
 * As for the White Paper of 1939: I ended up doing a major rewrite/expanding of the article. If you have time; please take a look. I would appriciate your opinion. There are still things lacking: e.g.: no Arab/Palestinian response are recorded (in the article). And that leads me to my major point in writing to you now: all the articles about the different White Papers/Declarations/Plans pertaining to the Palestinian/Israel-issue (or, more correctly: British Mandate-issue) have two things in common (more or less): they always quote the Jewish/Zionist (often quite detailed) response to the White Papers/Declarations/Plans in question, and never quote the Arab/Palestinian response! (Well, almost never: there is e.g. half a sentence in Balfour Declaration, 1917). I don´t want to speculate on why it has become like this, but one thing is sure: the articles in question most certainly are not NPOV as they stand now. And I just do not have the proper sources available (at the moment) to add the Arab/Palestinian response(s). Any contribution to making the articles more balanced would be appriciated. Regards, Huldra 11:43, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Israeli West Bank barrier
I have noticed the problem you are having over there (and your extreme patience, btw). I realize the water issue (among other things) isn't quite resolved there, but I'd like to try to help on that article if I'm able. I probably won't be on WP again till Saturday night or Sunday, but I intend to make my way over there. I think the new editor has typical new user misunderstanding of NPOV, OR, etc., but hopefully we can gently explain it to him. -- M P er el ( talk 01:17, 8 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I second the observation about Ramallite's patience, which I've been watching from afar with great admiration. The problem I'm having is keeping track of Zeq's changes, so I've asked him to slow down and introduce them individually on the talk page, but I don't know whether that's too much to ask. SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 01:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Don't worry, Ramallite, you're always coherent. I'll do what I can to help when it starts up again, but I've been having trouble following the various changes, and I'm always over-extended with the articles on my watchlist, so I apologize for dipping in and then out again. Perhaps if Mperel and I can take a look at it next week, that will help a little. Cheers, SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 02:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Israeli West Bank barrier
Hi Ramallite,

I got your message. Taking a look at the dispute, I feel a bit lost about what exactly is going on. Some of the changes Zeq wants to make seem dubious to me, but I'm unclear what you want me to do about it. The subject of the wall is not one which I have closely followed, so I'm not sure I have enough knowledge to really intervene. And I'm not sure what you mean about Zeq using questionable sources. Could you maybe explain again what you wanted me to do? john k 02:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know the site - it seems to be a way to surf the internet if you really need to avoid cookies, or something. But I'm not really sure. Maybe it will all become clear tomorrow - it really must be extraordinarily late for you, mustn't it? You should go to sleep before it gets light out. john k 02:37, 8 October 2005 (UTC)


 * In case you're feeling worn down by the wall page saga (as if it wasn't bad enough having to deal with the thing in real life), maybe this case of Web Translator Blight from the Reference Desk will bring a smile to your face. I'm sure Dr. 'Alaa would be pleased by it too. Palmiro | Talk 23:21, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I've tried to create a compromise version which I think is NPOV and far more coherent; please let me know what you think. Jayjg <small style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 19:21, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Sense of Humor
Hi rammallite,

I liked the sense of humor you expressed in:

"That is exactly what the NAD says. You must work for them too!! :) Ramallite (talk) 13:45, 10 October 2005 (UTC)"

Zeq 15:41, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

regaridn the topic "West bank"
Hi. first of all, Its good to know that we can discuss matters like civilised human beings, come to an understanding and thus enrich the topic, instead of just erasing each other's contributions. I wish the matters between our people could have been solved so easily. regarding Atarot: Atarot was (and still is, albeit closed) a civilian airport, and when it was open, Palestinian Arabs (with the proper security clearance) were also allowed to use it, although they needed passports even for domestic flights. I don't know (and never said so) if Arafat used Atarot, but he did use aerial transportation to get to and from Ramallah as well as Gaza. lastly, I do not wish to get a user name, for personal reasons. to the best of my nowledge wikipedia does not require logging in in order to contribute. yours truly, 84.228.42.65

Lubnan, shu hilw
yeah, Lebanon is great, it's like being on holiday after Damascus (they have bars! and cinemas not showing soft porn and martial arts flicks! and beaches!). Mind you, my place of work has now decided to set up two shifts with the obvious intent that if the whole thing gets blown up it will only have to say goodbye to half its staff, and that's not inclined to induce peace of mind. I sympathise re visas, at the moment I am trying to work out how to extend an expired Syrian residence permit while out of the country. As I only have ten free pages left in my passport, I'm not sure it'll work at all, though I probably will end up with a nice collection of multi-coloured fiscal stamps.

Sorry not to have been of any help on the articles on the wall and the West Bank. I feel a bit guilty that you have been struggling with this on your own, but to be honest I find the whole thing just too depressing, never mind the way it ends up being dealt with on Wikipedia. In the meantime, having found a happier corner of the wiki to play around on, I would like to ask you two questions:
 * 1) you don;t have Shanklish in Palestine, sure you don't?
 * 2) regarding shawarma, is "lafa bread" something you have heard of, and do you think it's the same as what is called "khubz arabi" in Syria? Palmiro | Talk 22:10, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

West Bank
Please see west bank talk. If I misunderstood something I applogize. it may have been a case of edit colision. Let's discuss.

btw, I saw somewhere (not even sure where) that your view is that all Israelis think negativly about palestinians.

I'll be honest with you: I think Palestinians are great people stuck with very poor leadership. I have many Palestinians friends and I think I can agree in 5 minutes with them about a peace agreement that both the Palestinians and Israeli people would agree on. The problem is until not long ago there was no leadership on both sides that could lead people to peace. Leadership void. In israel it is much more simple: If the leader does not do what the people want him to do he is replaced. sometimes very quickly. But on your side it seems you were stuck with a non-peace leader for 30 years and now on the rebound the leader is weak. Only the next palestinian leader can get this cart of the mud. Hopefully Israel will not be in leadership crisis of it's own when this happen. Ramadan Karim to you and your family. Zeq 19:50, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I don't believe everything the Israeli government says. But on the other hand I don't believe the other side propaganda. Let me do by way of examples: 1. I know your people are not happy if going through Kalandiya is easier. 2. I know that the best thing for you is that no Israeli soldier will prevent you from going all the way from Qalqilyia to Ramalla to Jordan and back via alneby without anyone stopping you. 3. For the most part I think the checkpoints are not needed in order to protect Israelis inside Israel. They are most likely to protect settlements.

How are we doing so far ?

But you seem to think that the wall is bad as well and I don't. I think the wall have brought, at a price to some of your people, calm into this region. You also think that Araffat wanted peace and I don't. I think he had a plan to take over Israel with the so-called "right of return".

You and I have very different narratives: A different versions of history. Some settlers think that all of Israel is for the Jewish people. Some Palestinians think that all of Palestine is only for the Palestinians people. (or that part of it is for the Palestinians and the other part called Israel is for the jews + the Palestinians refugees who will in 50 years become a majority if allowed to "go back" into Israel)

Now the issue is such: I know many settlers who now understand that although their narrative means that all of the land "belongs" to the Jewish people there is no alternative and for peace it must be divided. Do you know Palestinians who also agree to that ? Do you know Palestinians who understand that dividing the land also means giving up this so-called "Right" to return into Israel? Why can't your Abu Mazen, if he is so strong say that out loud ?

So either he has the same goals Arafat and Hamas have (in time take over israel by force or by means of becoming a Palestinian majority) or that if this is not his goal he is too weak to tell it to his people.

All your leaders, since Haj Amin El Houseni, fooled your people to think eventually you can get rid of the zionists. This is why Israel in 55 years became a superpower and the Palestinian People are in such a state. If Haj Amin el Housenni, would had open his heart and agree to accept Jewish refugees in the 1930s maybe we would not be having this discussion and maybe there would only be Palestine not Israel. And if there are still suicide bombs once in a while, despite the wall, and there are 14 years old kids who go to checkpoints with bomb belt this give an excuse to the Israeli government to keep these checkpoints. BTW, do you really believe that Michael tarazi favors the "two state solution" cause I heared that he is now saying different things but I would not expect less from an Harvard attorney….

I know it is hard for you to think that I wish you and your people an independent state in all or most of the west bank +gaza but trust me that is exactly what I want. It is up to you, the Palestinian people to take your destiny in your hands and get there. Start by knowing that blaming Israel for everything will not solve your problems. It will not work in 2006 more than it did in 1936, except if your people would not pressure the British in 1936 not to let Jewish refugees in (checkoout the white book) more of my family could be alive. Was there any progress toward peace on the palestinian side since 1936 ? Zeq 22:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

No answer Ha ? I guess it is easier for you to deal with jews who support Irgun than with those who want peace and compromise but still insist on the safy and security of civilians from both sides.. Zeq 09:56, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear Ramallite, Thanks for your answer. Sincve there are specific points I will answer them after each one made so the answer will be on my talk page. If you want I can copy it here. best, 85.64.47.119 06:20, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

category for deletion
Hi there, I'd quite like to get into the question of whether Lebanon or Syria contains more elements likely to induce depression, but for the moment I'm running out of time, so it'll have to be another day. I would like to point out to you though the malign precedent set by an anonymous user who has created Category:Irish terrorists (grrrr), which is now on Categories for deletion - if you feel like it, why not call by...

Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_October_13 Slán tamaill, Palmiro | Talk 15:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Reverting on the "Palestinian" page
Yes, I had second thoughts on the current definition of Jew as Palestinian, remembering that there is indeed an occasional Jew that identifies him/herself as 'Palestinian', and some that probably would place themselves under the authority of the PA, or a future Palestinian State. Juanita 01:51, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

An answer
I copied your text and inserted my comments


 * I left this article (above) for you a few days ago, I guess you didn't see it.


 * I looked at it. Thanks. I am sure you would agree with me that not every article is true. In any case we will see about Abu Mazen in the coming few month before the election and I do wish him luck. I think you should look at Altalena to see what a country has to do to establish it's sovereignty over rouge organizations.

And it's not nice to make accusations, it's not easier or harder to talk to you compared to Irgun supporters. I just don't know what to say to you except answer your statements directly:
 * A unilateral wall around my city is nothing I can defend. It may have bought calm as you say, but it a price that will be much heavier in the future. Nobody likes to be stuck behind a wall built by a foreign army.


 * The wall is not "around" you city. It is between your city and Jerusalem. You really seem an intelligent person and I am not sure why we have to go through this again: Yes the route in some places is causing harm to some Palestinians but it is not the monster you make it to be. Have you done what I have asked you: To call your friends in Kalkiliya and ask them if they can exit and enter their town freely (to the direction of Azun to the west bank (not into Israel) ?


 * I think the wall will have many many unintended consequences for both sides. For the Israeli side, read this article (which I included in my edits on Israeli West Bank barrier but you deleted, in fact, that article is still really messy and a lot of my edits were removed for no reason and I am still disappointed about that because you didn't try to work with me like you are doing now in Israeli Arab). Also read the following from Thomas Friedman (who I rarely agree with, but sometimes I love his quotes) here. It was written in 2003, but don't tell me that the checkpoints have been removed according to the UN, they can come and go, and right now, after what happened with the settlers in Gush Etzion, they are back.


 * You are mixing between different things (like any good propaganda person):
 * The Checkpoint that was removed in 2004 in Kalkiliya was removed because there is now a barrier between Klakiliya and Israel. (Prior to the barrier there was no way to prevent terrorists from Kalkiliya to enter Israel so the checkpoint was checking everyone that exit the city and preventing from explosives to be smuggled. This is one thing and indeed this checkpoint is gone. 100%.


 * The Gush Etzion issue is a different thing. For you maybe settlements and Israel are the same but for me it is different. I support protecting Israelis from suicide bombings. I don't support the settlements inside Palestinians areas. As long as you continue with terror the government has an excuse to maintain the settlements in the name of security and in the name of "there is no one to talk to on the other side" . So by continuing terror the Palestinians help the settlers. Extremists on both sides fuel each other. Are you against the extremists in your town ? I have demonstrated many times against the settlers. Have you ever, even once used your PC to write against Hamas ? Or you only write in English to blame Israel. Write something in Arabic against the terrorists.


 * You are comparing settlers with general Palestinians. Most Palestinians that I know also agree to a two-state solution, but there are two things that you don't seem understand about this. First, Israelis can talk from a position of power, whereas Palestinians have to talk from a position of humiliation (not weakness - humiliation). It is easy for Israelis to declare things (like Sharon declaring support for the road map and then building settlements anyway) because they are in a position of power, but Palestinians are not only in a position of weakness, but of humiliation, השפיל, and what Israelis have to understand is that it is almost impossible for Palestinians to do or say what the Israelis want while they are still humiliated daily.


 * Do I have to feel sympathy because you want to play the victim ?
 * At the end of WW-2 the Jewish people was not only humiliated it was devastated. It had millions of refugees to deal with. But in 3 years it established a state. In it's first 5 years that state had no food (There were food rations known as "tzena") People even did not have more than 1-2 eggs per week. 10 years later we were already sending rockets to space and winning a nobel prize. All I hear from many Palestinians (including those that are now rich in foreign countries) is how "humiliated " they are. You are doing it to yourself. Stop blaming others and be your own salvation.

Second, again read the Friedman article above, because it is the Israeli government's policies over the last 20 years that are making the two state solution impossible. More and more Palestinians no longer think that a state on a sliver of disconnected lands is feasible, and what Friedman writes makes more sense to more and more people (including Michael Tarazi).


 * Friedman raised a good point and I am glad you say tarazi is now against the 2-state solution because you have lied when you used his older articles to claim he is. The question is: Do you want one state so there will be a majority Palestinians in it and to end the Jewish people only country. That is Hamas goal as well. So you want to get there by having more Palestinians babies and Hamas wants to get there by killing more jews. What is the difference ?


 * You remind me of Haj Amin - let me tell you something about Haj Amin - I never heard of him until I started reading foreign books and web pages a few years ago. We weren't allowed to study Palestinian history in schools, and I think most people now don't know much about him. From what I understand, he was influential - 80 years ago- within those people who followed him, but not all Palestinians. In fact, there were large rivalries between the Husseini and Nashashibi and other clans in the country. So telling me about Haj Amin is like me telling you about Ovadia Yosef, who has many followers, but is hardly somebody to represent Palestinians in general.


 * Ovadia Yosef is an ass hole. What else do you want me to say. You don't have stupid people on your side who rise to some religious prestige ? Haj amin I just gave him as a simbol of how your people mis opportunties. It was not just him. If your leadership in the late 30s would accept Jewish refugees we would not have a need to establish israel. From haj Amin to Abu8 mazen - all your leaders have failed you.

Zeq 06:46, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

maybe this is intersting for you, this guy and Ovadiya Yosef could team up: []

Zeq 17:06, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I left you a short answer on my talk page. I don't see any point in dialogue with someone who just want to complain, tyhat twist what I say and does not want to explain how the wall even affect your own life. I am sure you know when you tried to argue that Palestinian are pro two state by citing a Trazi article from 2002 or 2003 but I will not even bother finding where you said it. It is not worth my time to show you how you change what you say when proven wrong. Despite this inability to comunicate with you (as an israeli who want a free independent Palestinian state living properly and in peace side by side to israel) I still want to wish you and your people that one day you will have such a state. As an israeli activist in the peace movment I work tirelsly for that goal despite knowing that what you want is to take over my country. Zeq 05:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

an answer on my talk page Zeq 06:20, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Do you read Hebrew ?
If you do, you should read this:

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3159533,00.html

and you will see that you and the settlers are against the fence. Or maybe should I say: On same side of the fence ?

Zeq 10:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Haaretz article
Thanks for the link. I hope this is not correct. I'll check on it. Zeq 14:51, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Adminship
Requests for adminship/Ramallite: you just need to sign and answer the questions, then I can enter it on the main RfA page. Good luck though I doubt you'll need it. ;-) SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 12:39, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Official titles in the Palestinian National Authority
Are President of the Palestinian National Authority and Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority really more correct than President of the Palestinian Authority and Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority? Is there a reason why the two last titles are more correct than the first two? Toya 16:03, 1 November 2005 (UTC) Thank you for answering. Toya 16:40, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Your rfa
Hi Ramallite. About your rfa, I just wanted to inform you that you can reply to any questions raised in your oppose votes right below the vote. This may help you to clarify a few things. Good luck. a.n.o.n.y.m  t 20:40, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your message :). No worries about my rfa though, I am just hoping that your's works out. I have sent you an email so we can keep in contact. Thanks -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 20:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Ramallite, by all means go ahead and respond to criticism that you feel is unfair. (I feel all of it is, incidentally.) SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 21:03, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Happy Eid Mubarak to you Ramallite. Best wishes. -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 16:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

You do not have to answer any questions you do not want to. Only questions that you choose to answer can be added to additional questions on the rfa page. -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 22:46, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay. Well if you want you can report any personal abuse like this to an admin or to an Rfc. This behavior has been disruptive and filled with attacks on other people. Best of luck. -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 22:51, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

your POV as you asked.
your POV is on your user page.

The issue if you support one state (with palestinian majority) or two states (with rturn of regugees into Israel so it will also becoem majority Palestinian ) is not the real issue. You clearly have a problem with Israel and have a problem with accepting some facts that don't fit your POV. You also see yourself as a victim and can not detach that aspect from your edits. See west bank barrier.

I don't like Sharon either. Your "victimhood" comes out clear on every issue you write about. including your answers to me. Zeq 21:09, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Do me a favor ramallite and stop putting words in mu mouth. you call me "dis inginious" you think I try to make you love Sharon (while you know I don't like him my self) Your "victimhood" comes out clear on every issue you write about. Have you ever considered that the palestinian condition is other than of "victims" ? it was very clear from your edits of the effect on palestinians. Zeq 04:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

منظمة التحرير الفلسطينية
Are the Arabs of Palestine pronouncing منظمة التحرير الفلسطينية as "Munazzamat al-Tahrir al-Filastiniyyah" or as "Munazzamat al-Tahrir al-Falastiniyyah"? Are they write that different? Toya 06:12, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Your RFA
I feel the current direction your RFA is heading is quite unjust. If you don't mind, I'm going to try to bring it to the attention of more people, in the hopes that reason will prevail and justice be served. Jayjg <small style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 18:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've contacted number of people. Jayjg <small style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 22:49, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Your RfA is clearly not going well. While you enjoy a majority there is claerly not going to be a consensus in your favor. Have you thought of removing your nomination ? Why don't you edit other subjects (not just palestine related) ? you mention you are a biologist. Surly you can contribute there ? happy Idd. Zeq 10:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC) PS: I hope you will not see me as an enemy. I know that for you everything Israeli is a red flag. but I am not against you or your people. If you have not noticed I support palestinian independence and truth (but not manipulation of truth for propeganda) Zeq 10:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It was my pleasure
I envy this situation, where two sides of a conflict get so well. I have yet to find this for the Turkish-Armenian problem.

BTW, trust the intelligence of the community, your cases is the type, where more time passes, and more people realise how weak opposing sides reasons are. Fadix 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Oh man, you've freaked me. :) How the hell do you know Armenian? :) Fadix 22:02, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Fence?
A fence keeps Kangaroos out. Why do they call the barrier a fence? It's a wall for goodness sake! Care to shed some light on this matter? - Ta bu shi da yu 06:51, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

question
Ramallite, I have a question of a more personal nature (which means that I fully understand if you choose not to answer it). As a molecular biologist working on cancer, how would you find the time to be an admin?

Also, if you had that op/ed piece by Abdulhakeem, about the Leaning Tower of Pisa, available, I would be very interested in reading it. You can post it on my user page if you like. Regards. --saxet 14:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Ramallite, I did realize that your bio was fictional, the reading was fun galore (Arabs on Ladders!!) and I even think I understood some of the subtext. Thing is; 92.4%, or 14.8% (depending on how you count) of all Wikipedians have a persona that is very different from their real life identity. So how does someone like me trust that you're not another Likud supporter; with a perfect background story - a 'cover' which would bring great moral credence to the debates. After all, you haven't been around very long, and you were nominated by SlimVirgin (and supported by Jayjg, et al). And also the strange opposition from that unreal Zeq character. All very suspect for a world-weary, disillusioned person such as myself. I've realized it's not the best substantive arguments that 'wins' the debates, it's the number of 'friends' one has (and their importance) - I can only hope that once you become an admin you will not forget concepts like truth and integrity, no matter how much Champagne and blingbling you get offered. That is if you're not already corrupted, if you are you should of course take as much as you can. ;-) Regards. --saxet 01:34, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I must say that I have wondered about that myself. You are investinga lot in wikipedia (despite the fact that you now "lay low" and even avoid answering questions placed on your nominatiom page. At the same time I wonder what NAD is doing doing with all these millions. Also you seem to know Hebrew including reading it and I must say this give me questions as to why would someone who proclaim to be Molcular bilogist learn to read Hebrew so well. Zeq 20:40, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I must say: this is quite a bizarre statement. I would have thought someone as smart as a molecular biologist working on cancer would actually find it easier to learn another language! Molecular biologists have lives too you know - at least when they aren't performing amazing acts of research into cancer :-) Ta bu shi da yu 00:01, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I am surprized at the amount of time he has for all this. Zeq 09:08, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * That is a very strange assertion. I am a cancer researcher, so it's strange that I have other interests? I also love and play music, does that seem strange to you?
 * 1- What do you mean with NAD? Are you accusing me (again) of being employed by them? Leave them alone; as much as you oppose them, they just do happen to be an official Palestinian agency, not some right wing independent group.
 * 2- אני בעולם לא אמרתי לך שאני קורה או אני מדבר עברית כל כך טוב, אבל נדמה לי שאני מבין מספיק
 * 3- You are (yet again) not exhibiting "good faith" in your accusations (which also make very little sense).
 * 4- I also speak a little bit of other languages too! Holy cow! I must be Indiana Jones! How can I be a cancer researcher?
 * lol! I'm glad I voted for you. A bit of humour goes a long way. - Ta bu shi da yu 00:01, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
 * 5- Obviously I have to be abroad a lot (like I am now) to do much of my research, as long as I can get a visa (which is extremely hard these days since all the consulates are on the other side of the גדר). So I do most of my labwork abroad.
 * 6- Notice how I am still responding to you even though I consider your constant accusations as harassment. I do not believe that you "respect" Palestinians like you say you do, but that is your own opinion and not really important to me.
 * Ramallite <sup style="color:DarkBlue;">(talk) 21:10, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

E-mail
Ramallite, did you get my e-mail? Jayjg <small style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 17:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

PRueda29 RFA
Thank you for your support! I really appreciate it! PRueda29 16:02, 5 November 2005 (UTC)