User talk:Ran/2005 (1)

consensus
indeed. but you were invited to voice your objections on the Talk page. I don't know a better way to get people to comment on it than trying it out for some time. btw, it has already been translated into German during the short time it was online. I would ask you to either state why you think it should be scrapped, or put it back so other people can comment on it. dab (&#5839;) 19:41, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I see. have you seen the 'math' on Talk:Main? Maybe you could answer with a short comment that you think it is wrong. I do not argue word count is 'correct', obviously, just that the margin of error is overall smaller than for article count. What does it tell you that Chinese comes up as 4.1% of en: (or in the tier 8th-21st) in article count, and as 3.1% of en: (or 12th) in word count? total inaccuracy? dab (&#5839;) 19:57, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * ah, sorry, I had not noticed you had put it back on the Main Page, otherwise I would have waited for you to react before reverting. Shall I revert to your footnote? dab (&#5839;) 20:08, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hello Ran

Thanks for the comprehensive message justifying your pride in the Northern China. I find all your articles on China very selective and BIASED and your block people whose opinions and facts of China confirm otherwise. I won't block you because I am better than that. This is the EXACT SAME KIND OF MANDARIN CHAUVINISM that has MASSACRED many intellectuals on the Mainland through brute force. I must say that it is disgusting. You do not represent Chinese people and the facts that you substantiate are paramount to propaganda. Stop posting messages on your site and I won't do the same to you. I am not interested in your pages. Thank you very much.

(-- unknown anon at unknown time... guys, if you want to insult me, at least sign your name, and tell me when you're saying what you're saying, and what exactly it's about. It's rather pointless otherwise. =) )

Wikistats
Hi Ran, answer on my talk page. Erik Zachte 00:58, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism on Japanese language
Hey Ran, thanks for reverting. I'd noticed the vandalism, but you beat me to the actual reversion. Thanks again! --Marnen Laibow-Koser (talk) 21:29, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Re: Brussels as the "capital" of the European Union
I was under the impression that Brussels is actually the capital rather than just "regarded as", since it is the seat of the executive body (the European Commission). I think it's just that the capital is only a smaller part of the larger "headquarters" of the EU. &mdash; Saxifrage | &#9742; 22:49, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)

Ran Would you consider removing "ideograph" from your post? Sorry if this is not an appropriate way to ask, but I have no other way of contacting you. Kevin McCready mccready@brisnet.org.au www.geocities.com/kevin_mccready_au

Beijing / Peking
Re transliteration of Chinese names:

Who is in charge of the naming committee? Are you suggesting that the pinyin transcription be used for all languages with latin alphabets or only English? This raises the issue of Chinese transliterations of non-Han names. There are some very bad examples, such as "old gold mountain" for San Francisco, Haishenwai for Vladivostok, etc. If you want to enforce this policy then you should insist that non Han names be transliterated faithfully with the popular mistranlations in parentheses if necessary.

Dimitry

Hi Dimitry

I agree with you. I am a Chinese contributor to this site and I speak 3 Chinese vernaculars and 3 European languages and through some of the unreasonable Mandarinization imposed here, I feel how repressed non-native Mandarin speakers are by those apparently native speakers. Traditionally, foreign names are transliterated into Chinese ideographs by whichever vernacular group that first settled there. In USA and Europe, it is mostly by the Cantonese, then subsequently The Minnan-Taiwanese and recently the people for Fuzhou, Wenzhou etc. As such, they will use Han ideographs to represent the sounds they transliterate from the foreign language like English. There is no standardised version until the Northerners came into power and imposed Mandarin on all the other Chinese groups for the noble mission of reuniting the motherland against foreign invaders through bettering communication. I think the best way to transliterate and reflect the diversity of Chinese culture is to put the actual foreign name first, i.e. the ORIGINAL, followed by the oldest transliteration (in chronology) and finally the Mandarin version. That will make it easy for everyone cos then the eyes will zoom right to the end for the contemporary Mandarin pronunciation and zoom right to the first line for the original and if readers have time, they can trace the colorful history of transliteration and migration by reading the chronology of changes. Thank you for being so interested in Chinese culture. We need more friends like you. Have a nice day.


 * I've replied at User talk:24.250.113.200. -- ran (talk) 01:29, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)

Egyptian Arabic
You are absolutely right. There's no relation between the writing system and the existance of phonemes. The use of the word "alphabet" was improper.

However, the sentence you removed did not suggest a relation of this kind.

It was referring to the phonemes g and &#658; regardless of their representaion in writing. In the case of Arabic, there's only one letter &#1580; that represents either one of them, depending on the speakers accent.

While the phoneme &#658; did not exist in the Egyptian language, g existed, so maybe replacing &#658; with g was the way Egyptians learned to pronounce Arabic, since it would not cause confusion anyway.

Maybe the new phrasing will be more accurate.

--Alif 20:49, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

&#20013;&#33775;&#27665;&#22283;&#20840;&#22294;
Hi Ran, thanks for uploading the most recent version of Image:&-20013;&-33775;&-27665;&-22283;&-20840;&-22294;.jpg. It's currently the focus of an ongoing image sleuthing effort, whose goal is to determine the source and copyright status of images lacking such information. Do you have a source URL for this map, or any other information about it? If so, could you post it on the image description page or on Image talk:&-20013;&-33775;&-27665;&-22283;&-20840;&-22294;.jpg? Thank you very much. --MarkSweep 06:45, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Whoa, speedy reply! The original uploader has been contacted. Thanks again, --MarkSweep 06:50, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

On romanisation
Thank you. I did enjoy discussing and exploring the issue with you. And that's the real meaning of the art of dicussions over Wikipedia. -- 22:22, January 26, 2005, UTC

Hi Ran:

Here is my input on the Cantonese Romanization issue:

The system that the anon used was a valid one. It is usually attributed to S. L. Wong, A Chinese Syllabary Pronounced according to the Dialect of Canton. There is an online version. In that publication, he followed the practice introduced by Y. R. Chao, which is to use /b/ /d/ /g/ to mark the unaspirated initials and /p/ /t/ /k/ to mark the aspirated initials. One dictionary, popular in Hong Kong, uses Pinyin and that system to mark the sound of Chinese characters in Mandarin and Cantonese: &#12298;&#20013;&#33775;&#26032;&#23383;&#20856;&#12299;&#20013;&#33775;&#26360;&#23616; ISBN: 962-231-001-X. It uses tone numbers 1-9 in superscript, not tone contours. Some people, including that dictionary, do call the system "Cantonese IPA". Just like IPA for any language, the IPA transcription is not phonetic but phonemic. So it is acceptable to use /b/ /d/ /g/ to mark unvoiced unaspirated initials.

I did not follow that dictionary but use aspiration marks in the Standard Cantonese article because my purpose was to introduce the sounds. I followed the symbols used in describing other Chinese dialects so as not to cause confusion. For transcription of Chinese characters in other articles, using those symbols may not be optimal, and we may discuss on that.

-- Felix Wan 23:13, 2005 Jan 26 (UTC)

Sorry Ran, you are correct, the site is using Jyutping although it mentions the book. I should have checked it more carefully. Let me find a better link. I have read your arguments and have to agree with you that sticking with the symbols in Standard Cantonese provides the best pronunciation key. Although I am not a fan of Jyutping, I also find it preferable over IPA because we do not need to deal with those special characters. -- Felix Wan 02:28, 2005 Jan 27 (UTC)

Signing messages
Dear Ran: I noticed that when you sign your messages, you include a link to your talk page. I was taught that 3 tildes will insert one's name, and 4 tildes will insert a name and time stamp. How do you get it to insert a link to your talk page as well? Does it have to be done manually? --Wang123 08:22, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thank you ran. It worked. ~Wang123 (Talk) 11:38, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Map of India
Hi Ran,

Thanks a lot for the message about Indian map. The Map of China that you have made is excellent. Thanks a lot for pointing it out to me. About the Arunachal Pradesh part of Indian Map: Well, I have just about finished a new version of Indian Map, and the depiction of Arunachal Pradesh as dispute area already there. Thanks again -Ankur 07:02, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

China as a country
Hello Ran, I have recently raised my question on the title of the two articles below:

Province of China & Political divisions of China

I wonder if you have happened to come across my discussion in the talk page of Political divisions of China. I am a bit frustrated that no one reponsed my question. Please kindly give me some opinion if you have some thoughts. I hope someone can convince me that the question I raised is trivial.Mababa 05:10, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I have proposed a solution to reach pratical NPOV in the talk page of the Political divisions of China. I am wondering if you can comment on this proposal or give us an alternative proposal. Looking forward to your response.Mababa 03:35, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

China
Apparently, someone has proposed to mass move all pages with "People's Republic of China" to "China". The proposal also calls for change in Naming conventions (Chinese). Please take a look at Requested_moves. --Jiang 05:35, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Expressways of China
Hi there,

Ruxiang suisu. (Practice whatever is practiced locally.) I know that pinyin without the accents mean a potential mess and the possibility of "renamed" expressways. However, I would like to suggest that the naming is kept Jingshen, Shitai etc... as per the official name in China. In the rare case expressways are "of the same name", refer to them with a bracket; e.g. Jingshen (Beijing-Shenzhen) Expressway and Jingshen (Beijing-Shenyang) Expressway.

How does this look?

Best,

--DF08 15:16, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Taiwan/China/Hong Kong/ naming wars
Hello Ran, it occurs to me that maybe you would like to comment in the RfC of Instantnood. He is the one behind a series of rename efforts dealing with the asian regional countries that interact with China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Instantnood SchmuckyTheCat 00:22, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

RfC
Hello there. I am recently being listed on RfC. Feel free to comment as you wish to. I regard it as a way out and to have the matter settled. Thanks. &mdash; Instantnood 00:36 Mar 2 2005 (UTC)

Map of India
Hi Ran,

we talked loooooong ago about map of India and China, maybe you will like to look at the new map I uploaded here. I will complete it once minor issues are discussed. --Ankur 19:29, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I wonder if you could tell me specifically how you want me to represent Arunachal Pradesh - the disputed area and the disputed border. If you want to please leave suggestions here. Thanks, --Ankur 00:40, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Provinces/Prefectures of Mongolia
Talk:Prefectures of Mongolia

China vs Mainland China
Would you be interested to join the discussion and say something at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)? -- Felix Wan 02:16, 2005 Mar 12 (UTC)

Aymags
Hi Ran - looks like you're busily editing the Mongolian Aymag pages at the moment... could I ask you, when you do, to change any stub messages to Template:CAsia-geo-stub? It'll save someone having to go back later to do it. Thanks! Grutness|hello? 07:55, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject_Subnational_entities/Naming
Thanks a lot for the input on chinese units!! :-) Tobias Conradi 21:24, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

In line with new way of doing things on WP:RM I moved you oppose on to Talk:Autonomous region of China. Please check and make sure that I did not make a mistake. -- Philip Baird Shearer 18:58, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Autonomous region of China
In line with new way of doing things on WP:RM I moved you oppose on to Talk:Autonomous region of China. Please check and make sure that I did not make a mistake. -- Philip Baird Shearer 19:00, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Japan regions
have the been administrative at some time? I think about uppercasing them, but all I did until now where administrave regions. Tobias Conradi 05:46, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * what they are now is not all, because we could have article about hist. entities. Tobias Conradi 10:24, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Re : Mandarin, Japanese, and fustration
Hi Ran,

The dispute on Mandarin (linguistics) (Mandarin, Japanese, and fustration) has been moved from my user talkpage to the article talkpage in question. I have never edited this article before, but I'll be more than happy in helping to ressolving this dispute if you request so. - Mailer Diablo 08:25, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Your vote is needed!
Hello Ran. Despite the ongoing discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) over the use of the terms "mainland China" and "People's Republic of China", SchmuckyTheCat and Huaiwei have listed category:Cities in mainland China, category:Companies of mainland China and category:Laws of mainland China onto Categories for deletion.

Your vote is now essential and vital for the survival of these categories, and to avoid attempts to bar the Naming conventions (Chinese) from truly enforced. &mdash; Instantnood 20:40, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :-) &mdash; Instantnood 23:26, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

List of countries by population / Mainland China
I guess it will look better and will be more convenience to readers to say People's Republic of China (Mainland). What do you think? &mdash; Instantnood 03:06, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

PRC vs ROC
No, man, leave it alone, okay. I've inserted a flag to the move; check it out. Duke it out in there, not all over WP. My settlement will be disliked equally by every user with a dog in the fight. That's the point. &mdash; Xiong (talk) 05:14, 2005 Mar 25 (UTC)

&mdash; Xiong (talk)

There is great merit in discussing China, and perhaps some merit in discussing how to discuss China. I find no merit whatsoever in discussing how to discuss how to discuss China. But you are welcome to do so on User:Xiong/Chinatalk.

And if you feel absolutely compelled to discuss how to discuss how to discuss how to discuss China, there is a place for that, too: User talk:Xiong/Chinatalk. Thank you for respecting that. &mdash; Xiong (talk) 02:51, 2005 Mar 29 (UTC)

Mumbai
Hi, I was working on adding interwiki links to Mumbai. Does &#38463;&#21340;&#26460;&#23572;•&#21345;&#25289;&#22982; stand for Mumbai? I'm trying to translate the page into as many languages as possible. However since I can't read Chinese, and that's the only major one missing, I was hoping that you could add a stub in Chinese. BTW the city has just become a FA. Thanks. Nichalp 20:37, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks. :) Nichalp 20:49, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration
Hello Ran. I've got listed onto requests for arbitration by SchmuckyTheCat. Could you have a look? Thanks. &mdash; Instantnood 04:29, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

WP:RM
Talk:Région in France can you maybe vote on the proposed move from Région in France to Regions of France (english,plural,of = common practice) thx. Tobias Conradi 03:44, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Chinese pronunciation
I've put up Chinese language for PR and I'd appreciate comments on it. There's been a request for pronunciation files, which seems quite reasonable to me. I recorded one file pronouncing the four tones of Mandarin with the syllable "ma", but I think we could use a few recordings of simple sentences as well. Preferably in more than just Mandarin and Cantonese. Can you offer any assistance? Peter Isotalo 20:04, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)