User talk:Random user 8384993/Archive 4

Date formats after autoformatting
With the recent deprecation of date autoformatting, "raw" dates are becoming increasingly visible on Wikipedia. Strong views are being expressed, and even some edit-warring here and there. A poll has been initiated to gauge community support to help us develop wording in the Manual of Style that reflects a workable consensus. As you have recently commented on date formats, your input would be helpful in getting this right. Four options have been put forward, summarised as:
 * 1) Use whatever format matches the variety of English used in the article
 * 2) For English-speaking countries, use the format used in the country, for non-English-speaking countries, use the format chosen by the first editor that added a date to the article
 * 3) Use International format, except for U.S.-related articles
 * 4) Use the format used in the country

The poll may be foundhere, as a table where you may indicate your level of support for each option above. --Pete (talk) 18:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Redesign draft, redux

 * Ok, I think that I am pretty much finished with another (hopefully better) draft. It'shere still. Let me know if you like it, and we can get to work importing it into the project. After that, we can also start cleaning up the members' list, sending out a newsletter, and generally increasing organisation (you should see some of the other Wikiprojects' organisation!!!). Leave a note about what you think on the Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_France. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:58, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Date format poll confirmation
You recently contributed to a poll on date formats. The option you supported won the poll but is now an option in a final poll to test support against the current version. The poll gives full instructions, but briefly the choices are: If you wish to participate or review the progress of this poll, you may followthis link. --Pete (talk) 01:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * C = Option C, the winner of the initial poll and run-off. (US articles have US format dates, international format otherwise)
 * R = Retain existing wording. (National format for English-speaking countries, no guidance otherwise).

TER maps
Chris,

I already massivily modified the TER map off Nord pas de Calais. The result is Image:TER map Nord-Pas-de-Calais II.png. It took a lot more work than I anticipated, but I wanted to finish it. It was originaly a fotograph off the map in the TER guidebook. There are sufficient style and map changes to prefend any copyrigth problems.

The copyrigth issue is confusing. It is a public document issued by a public authority. On some TER maps there is the SNCF logo and some such as the one off Picardie, there is a copyrigth marking. The SNCF logo doesnt necessarily imply ownerschip, because the SNCF runs most off the train services on the map. If the map is made by a professional design office, they wil take care to protect it with a copyrigth marking. I find the discussion in the common on copyrigths farfetched. Only handmade maps would be tolerated.

I have looked at the rff maps, but they are off limited use as they do not show the trainservice patterns. And I am not certain that copyrigth problems are avoided. Derivatives are also forbidden. The next TER map I would need to work on is the Rhone Alpes map, because I have written a dutch article wich needs it. (The other maps dont have an article yet, so there is no urgency)

Greetings,

Smiley.toerist (talk) 15:00, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

AAU reminder notice

 * Notice delivery by xenobot 14:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject France newsletter
{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px" width="100%" {| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:#f5fffa" ! WikiProject France News
 * class="MainPageBG" style="width: 55%; border:1px solid #cef2e0; background-color:#f5fffa; vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
 * style="color:#000"|
 * style="color:#000"|

What's new?

 * [[Image:Crystal_128_desktop.png|22px]] The project has recently experienced a complete redesign. TheOutreach department has also undergone a major expansion, and this newsletter is the result of that.
 * The review department is currently under development, with several new proposals underway. Internal peer review had begun on the page of the project's Review Department. The department currently provides a centralized platform off all currently open reviews throughout the project (Featured Articles, Peer Reviews, Good Articles, Articles for Deletion, Categories for Discussion, etc.)
 * A new task force has been introduced: the Paris task force. Any users interested in contributing to the taskforce can join on the project page.
 * There is a current discussion aboutmerging the French Communes WikiProject into ours. This communes project will be organised as a task force.

! User-related news
 * style="color:#000"|
 * style="color:#000"|

Notifications
! Complete project tasks Complete To Do List
 * Several new user has joined the project this last month: Jordan Timothy James Busson, Djwilms and Mcewan. Welcome! Please come stop by thetalk page to join in our discussions.
 * Lazulilasher has been awarded the French Barnstar of National Merit for his contributions to this project. Congratulations!
 * style="color:#000"|
 * style="color:#000"|

The following is a list of all the current tasks for the project, as well as several project goals:


 * }
 * class="MainPageBG" style="width: 45%; border:1px solid #cedff2; background-color:#f5faff; vertical-align:top"|
 * }
 * }

Thanks for your contributions to the project, Jor dan Contribs 17:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Your report on AIV
Thank you for your report. However,WP:AIV is for reporting current vandalism. The IP you reported has not edited in over 24 hours, so does not require urgent administrator intervention. Please remember to check the user's contributions to ensure they are a persistent, ongoing problem before submitting your report. All the best, EyeSerene talk 20:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Image Gallery
Template:Image Gallery has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Neelix (talk) 16:23, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

No content in Category:Station diagram template
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Category:Station diagram template, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it bespeedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Category:Station diagram template has been empty for at least four days, and its only content has been links to parent categories. (CSD C1). To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Category:Station diagram template, please affix the template to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that '''this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here''' CSDWarnBot (talk) 01:11, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

formation du territoire français sur Formation territoriale de la France métropolitaine
Bonjour Merci de participer à l’amélioration da le carte animée de la formation du territoire français sur Formation territoriale de la France métropolitaine. Toutefois quelques-unes de vos suggestions ne me semblent pas appropriées à cette carte. Car même si la France et la corse ont été occupé par les armées allemandes, en aucun ca elles n’ont été annexé comme le fut l’Alsace-Loraine. Je retiens néanmoins les propositions suivantes :


 * 1794 : mise en place du Royaume Anglo-Corse
 * 1796 : les troupes françaises reprennent l'île
 * Peut-être ce sera intéressant que la dernière image (celui de la France actuelle) montre aussi toutes les territoires qui ont appartenu à la France au cours de l'histoire?

--Obscurs 17 decembre 2008 à 20:30

New message
. G.A.S talk 07:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Removed reference
You removed a reference and the refsection from Template:Infobox France station/doc. But you removed it from inside a  example, leaving the actual reference. I fixed it. Debresser(talk) 13:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Re:New Bilateral Relations map
Thanks. It's perfect.Deavenger (talk) 20:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Map size
Chris, I am concerned about the size of the maps, and ask for suggestions for improvement - however, simply reducing the size is not the complete answer.

First, it messed up the rendering of the page (which I can fix, but did you look at the mess you left?)

Second, the numbers of the schools and the pog now overlap, making the map look very unprofessional. [edit - I've changed the background color to partially fix this]

I tried to make the map as small as I could without overlap - that size was roughly 700, once I got to that size, it seemed better to go to a full width. Again, I look for advice if there's a better way.

I will look into making the pog clickable - so I can remove the numbers, but as these are my first maps, I'm still learning. Sphilbrick (talk) 18:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

What's all this pointless removing of redirects?
If you really object to Dauphiné Libéré redirecting to Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, then replace it with a piped link Dauphiné Libéré rather than removing useful links. This is tantamount to vandalism. Kevin McE(talk) 13:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I notice that although you have done several edits since, you have not sought to defend your actions. Kevin McE (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Bot problem
Chrisbot appears currently to be replacing 'uCONTI' with 'CHRISBOT'.

I presume this isn't what was intended. Jheald (talk) 16:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, sorry for the false alarm. The half-done change just looked a bit strange when I saw it on my watchlist. Jheald (talk) 16:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Ipswich to Line
Well I think you or your bot should havea look at this, cos I want it exiting LEFT not RIGHT. and if your bot can't mange that in one edit, it shoiuld leave it alone. I edit very incrementally-- I have made 18 edits on this article this morning-- and don't need a stupid bot jumping in half way through. If it can't get it right then it shouldn't be let loose on Wersikipedia. I shot pageould NOT have to read your bot page-- I did not even know your bot exist until it made a bad edit. If a human editor made that edit it would be rightly undone.

Yours not in particularlt good mood

SimonTrew (talk) 12:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't care what the technicalities are, the fact is that a bot trambled a human editor's work, WHILE THEY WERE ACTIVELY EDITING IT. That is just bad manners.

Why does it "need" to be changed (and I don't want any theoretical reasons about what is left and right)? Can you point me to an AfD or RfC or ssome other discussion that agrees the change? Admittedly I have not been very active but I would have thought something could have been posted on the project talk pages etc.SimonTrew (talk) 12:28, 29 June 2009 (UTC)e

Now I have calmed down a bit let me put this a little more constructively. I wanted to revise this diagram and it came to the top of my watchlist because of your bot's action yesterday so I decided to have a go this morning (I am on BST) assuming whatever the bot had done it was finished doing. I edit incrementally so to get from where it was to where I wanted it to be I do a LOT of previews and a LOT of incremental saves, however AT EACH STAGE the diagram was topologically correct even if not as lovely as I wanted it to be, i.e. at NO TIME would a reader access that page and find incorrect information. Your bot, on the other hand, INJECTS INCORRECT INFORMATION i.e. the CHRISBOT tags. You can therefore understand my frustration when I have taken great care *not* to break the article at any time and your botimmediately I've finished goes andbreaks it-- with no explanation. SimonTrew(talk) 12:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't ask where it was approved. I asked where it was discussed. Since I am obviously not the only one (see below) it seems pretty obvious to me if you have a bot nobody has heard of, and when you go to the bot page the only comment is STOP, you start wondering what the thing is up to. These diagrams take a long long time to get right. It's not personal as such, any more than when your computer dies after you've spent hours editing a document then the backup doesn't load or whatever, but is frustrating nonetheless. I think necessarily a good editor has pride in his work and though nobody "owns" anything on wikipedia that doesn't mean a bot should TRASH it. If you can't think of a better migration route than a three-point turn during which the article is trashed, I suggest that it would have been better left as it was.ot. The fact is NO bot should go editing articles actively being edited-- they should stand off until the a conrticle has not been edited for a while. Like SmackBot does, for example (and it only ADDS info anyway). SimonTrew (talk) 12:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good, yeah, if there had been something in the edit summary, even justa pointer to the bot's page, that would have savesd my confusion and frustration. I appreciate this sort of maintenance does need doing sometimes, and either it was just coincidence or because it happened to re-enter my consciousness that I started editing it this morning, which is kinda in a sense rather perverse since it hadn't been touched for ages and your bot kinda made me get round to editing it! So, thanks for the bot (I don't pretend to understand why they need changing since its a straight left continuation that it changed i.e. nothing to do with up/down lines as far as I can see (f/g in german). These diagrams can be so fiddly that any unwonted change to them is bound to be looked on rather more seriously than a bot just, say, removing whitespace.

You're right that I should have marked nobot or inuse but by the token that every edit I make stands on its own feet as an incremental improvement I don't really need to. That is why I encourage incrememental editing and that each change must stand on its own feet (it also allows other editors to pick the bones out of a large change much easier when it is broken into small parts each of which stands good on its own) and I was more annoyed about the bot breaking it AT ALL than the actual break itself, which was not huge. SimonTrew (talk) 13:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Chrisbot
Hi - I came here to query why this bot was replacing good icons with a blank one. I was about to shut it down as apparently faulty, but found this response you left for another user earlier. As others may also query this, I think you need to leave a note, either on the bot's user page or in the appropriate summary, e.g. temporarily changing cont icons (my italics). —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 12:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
Go ahead old bean, restart it SimonTrew (talk) 13:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries I am sorry I was rather grumbly earlier on but yep it is all for the best, that's what it's all about.

AN
Please see WP:AN and comment. –xenotalk 21:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

CONT icons in other projects
Chris, have you taken into account that the CONT icons on Commons are used by other projects as well as en-wiki? You will need to update these as well. See for example (used over 100 times just in the Catalan wikipedia). These all need to be corrected, or sooner or later someone from that project will turn up at Commons wondering why the images have been reversed. —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 11:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Same for the Portuguese Wikipedia rail diagrams, looking very messy right now. :-( Tuvalkin (talk) 00:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

WP::OWNFEET
Chris, thanks for that, I maybe should have done it myself (there is a short essay on my user page but I presume you saw that). ut Your bot is doing good work and thanks very much for it. The railway diagrams that are under my eye I have changed to use the CONTu and CONTg symbols etc too so I think that's a bit of progress! I am not particularly a railway nut but using them a lot in my local area I know where they are wrong, of course others can look up their books etc but I know how it actually is (for example Railway stations in Newmarket came about between me and mjroots cos we found far more stations in Newmarket than we knew existed, and actually there are some lovely photos and aquatints of them in the Cambridgeshire Collection but I do not have permission to use them yet, though think I will probably get it).

So keep up the good work and do not be discouraged! Yes it was a bit annoying but I think it was probably best to start at the smallest end and work up. You can imagine how many complaints you get for the main change of the CONT icons that aren't ex.

I will go read OWNFEET and may make some small changes if I feel it is worthwhile but from your tone and the title I presume it expresses my own sentiment pretty much. Slightly an odd title eh but I think it puts it plainly enough.

Very best wishes SimonTrew (talk) 16:45, 3 July 209 (UTC)


 * Chris I have edited and expanded this a bit though I am not 100% happy with my changes, it seems a bit clumsy in places (my edits not yours). It is quite a good article I think but I have been somewhat clumsy. I keep repeating the mantra MUST STAND ON ITS OWN FEET and I deliberately want that to be repeated in the article, but may have overdone it. Xeno had a look over it for some simple subbing, then I subbed it and started to expand it a bit. Of course nobody "owns" anything on Wikipedia but I would like you to be happy with it too, so have a look over it maybe and make changes if you think it is too wordy or says the same thing twice etc.


 * Thanks for all your good work here, yes CHRISBOT did get my nerves but wow you took that, and I admit the criticism was not entirely constructive, added the edit summaries and the talk page and stuff so that people know what is going on, you took that as improvement, I can only admire that. AND then you even wrote an essay at WP:OWNFEET how good is that. You are obviously a very good Wikipedian.


 * Thank you once again SimonTrew (talk) 10:01, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Icon swapping
Please note the comments I have made about icon-swapping at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways.--Dr Greg (talk) 17:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

cf. Wikipedia_talk:Route_diagram_template/Catalog_of_pictograms re why *not* to change the prefixes. --AlisonW (talk) 22:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
About WP:OWNFEET SimonTrew (talk) 14:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Rail Icon Directions
You are into the L/R/U/D/G/F kerfuffle. I don't think what the engine driver sees is how "directions" should be described, but if some self-annointed purists squabble about the matter, let them. User:SilasW/Sandbox2 shows how the same icon can be given contradictory names in that system once the original concept of a single straight line has been superseded.

But CONTs in Template:Stratford stations (edit summary "fixed" is neither helpful nor true) have mixed meanings for l and r.--SilasW (talk) 19:44, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
How about making it a case study as a sub-article? SimonTrew (talk) 21:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * OK if I have a chance I will start it, although I think it would be more interesting with some of your own comments and from a first-person (your) perspective. SimonTrew (talk) 13:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't started this yet, but I have added stuff to WP:OWNFEET (basically revised from my user page) about short edits, as suggested at the talk page. I've rearranged it to try to make it a bit more manaegable and readable, and added a few semi-humorous quotes. While you're away I think I will at least try to gather all the various snippets of talk etc and make them into one great big conversation (me and you and the others involved too) and then we can pick through that. SimonTrew (talk) 16:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

midperson
surely that would be midspouse? SimonTrew (talk) 21:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

good job
Congratulation for your template for Lyon transport, I'm really bad at template :( I will put the correct links to the railway stations, do you think you can create the same templates of tramways (T1, T2...) and express buses (C1, C2...) of the french wikipedia ? Regards Lulu97417 (talk) 19:36, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Commons rail icons aren't just for English Wikipedia
I just happened to find this: hu:Shrewsbury–Chester-vasútvonal. The exCONT icons are all wrong, and I'm afraid it's your fault! --Dr Greg (talk) 21:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC)