User talk:RandySpears

Signing comments
Hi, RandySpears. It seems no-one ever told you about a useful feature of the software here for "signing" comments on talk pages. Here's a summary; please see the link for more info.

Simply type in four "~" characters (~&#126;) at the end of your comment. When you save or preview the edit, the software will replace the "~"s by your username and the current date and time. The software also lets people customize these signatures. For example, I changed mine to contain "CWC" instead of "Chris Chittleborough (talk)" because the default is just too long.

While I'm here, this is the recommended reading list we give to new editors: I know you've already read at least some of these, but there might be some pages in there you find useful or interesting.
 * Introduction
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

BTW, when you say "elitist culture" on your user page, do you mean "high culture"? Just curious ...

Cheers, CWC 03:56, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey Chris,


 * Thanks for the tips, I'll put them to good use!


 * Well, it was in part a bit of a throwaway comment to fill space I have to admit :)


 * But, yes high culture is part of it, but in a broader sense I think I also meant the aspect of elitism that you might find in many subcultures - whether we're talking about hanging out at the opera, being a wine buff, a slashdot geek, etc. So it's meant both from the perspective of a participant and from that of an "anthropologist"... I guess there's something about the combination of elitism and "nerdery" (in lack of a better word) that I find interesting!


 * RandySpears (talk) 17:14, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * And it works great! RandySpears (talk) 17:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Jspx-bay is not a commercial product
Mr RandySpears, Jspx-bay is not a commercial product and is not a product at all, hence it needs no marketing. If you had checked the page you can see that the framework is under Apache License which means that it is absolutely free of charge for any kind of use. There are not any kind of payment required for any thing related to the project. Even donating money for the project is not allowed. People can use the Framework or the source code or even parts of the source codes for any propose. There are no fees for technical support.

Have seen any link to my name or the name of the people behind such work?

If you Google for Jspx you can see what are the top results, and how they are related to Jspx-bay framework. Further more, The JSP page has no single word about jspx. Before making such change, why did not you use the Discussion page of Jspx-Bay to put such matter under people opinions?

Since Jspx-bay page was created and for almost 2 years, Jspx always directed to the Page till you decided otherwise. So again it is about your single personal opinion...

Despite my very much love to Wikipedia, You (not the only one in the world, however among few) make me feel Wikipedia does not run under the free well of the community but under personal opinions.

I am not sure that reverting back the linking of Jspx to Jspx-Bay would be the proper answer for your act, however I will be using my very humble knowledge of Wikipedia to create a disambiguation page for Jspx that is link to both pages, so it would be clear to everyone hit Wikipedia with Jspx word that there are more than one result and he can select the correct page.

Appreciate talk before taking action as I think that conflicts should be resolved by talking first (specially in a place such as Wikipedia). Amr.eladawy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:38, 23 March 2011 (UTC).

Amr,

While I applaud your decision to offer your efforts under the Apache License, that doesn't change the fact that a product - in this case your product - may be free of charge and still be a product. More relevant though is that the fact that you don't charge money for your product does not entail that you don't have a vested interest in the success of your product.

Do I understand you correctly, you are then asking me from where I got the idea that Jspx-bay is made by you?

The answer to that is that I googled your name: Amr ElAdawi. The first hit is an interview with you from Javalobby where it says that you are a member of a small community developing Jspx-bay. The second hit, however, is to your LinkedIn profile, where it says that you are in fact the "creator and the founder of [the Jspx-bay] framework". That should settle it?

If I do as you suggested and google (on Google EN) for "jspx", the top two hits (not counting wikipedia pages, for obvious reasons) are [|a Stack Overflow question about (Oracles web technology) jspx] and [|a question on Spring's forum about (Oracles web technology) jspx]. Your projects home page claims the number 3 spot, though.

Now, you are right in that I should have gone through the trouble of posting here before editing, and for that I am sorry. See, I came here because I am myself a Java developer with 12 years in the server side java business. I was reading a Spring tutorial where Jspx was mentioned (not your framework) and since I am not big on front end i needed to look that up. I do have a descent grasp on web frameworks though, and having never heard about your framework I was pretty confident that it was not what the Spring guys were referring to. Having done some more research, I found out that Jspx is the name that Sun (and now Oracle) use for designating XML compliant Jsp pages.

Now I let my frustration at having to do additional work get the better of me. I thought it should be self-evident to anyone not heavily invested in his own piece of work that a core addition to a technology used by tens of thousands of developers around the world is more noteable than yet another web framework with a very small market share. Furthermore, I read the previous comments on this talk page where other users pointed out to you that they didn't expect jspx to redirect to the page about your web framework. That, together with the fact that I knew you were the creator of Jspx-bay, gave me the impression of someone trying to use Wikipedia to plug their own work. In that I erred, because assuming bad faith is both poor form, and against Wikipedia policy.

Furthermore, I get the impression that you may have named your framework Jspx before Sun/Oracle choose that name for their technology, and then renamed it Jspx-bay, rather than trying to persist in claiming that name for yourself?

Anyway, a friendly suggestion: you have now choosen the formal name Jspx-bay for your product. My suggestion is that you use only that name for your product. Your project homepage also only uses the name "Jspx" everywhere, and it is confusing. It is not common practice to trade in pet names for software product unless the formal name is very long and hard to say, and the product is very widely used. When that happens, it happens naturaly because the users of the product find it convenient.

That you, as the creator of the product, tries to persist in using two different names for it is rather strange, and personally as a software engineer and potential user, it makes me skeptical towards the product as it seems a tad bit unprofessional. Either you keep the old name, or you change it, you don't do both?

However, I think your edit introducing the disambiguation page is a good one. I'd suggest adding that "Jspx" is and informal name for JSP Documents as per the JSP spec, and that Jspx is the "old" name for what is now the Jspx-bay framework (if you have decided on going through with the name change).

Br, RandySpears (talk) 19:46, 23 March 2011 (UTC)