User talk:Ranumspa

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I see you are interested in seventeenth-century France and its musicians; I'm quite happy to see you here. (From your website I see that you've worked with William Christie -- love his recordings of this period!) I'm the guy who wrote most of the Wikipedia material on music in France and adjacent areas in the sixteenth century (Josquin, Mouton, Claude Le Jeune, musique mesurée à l'antique, Janequin, etc. etc.) and I'm elated to see that someone is tackling the seventeenth century. Some of our articles in this area are quite weak and could use some expert attention. (There may be a couple of other editors active in this area, but it's been quiet for a while.) Once again, glad to have you here; drop me a note on my talk page if you need any help with anything. All the best, Antandrus (talk) 15:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Dear Antadrus: I'm generally busy these days: just happened to have a break for a few days and discovered the really bad Lorraine articles. But I don't have time to figure out the intricacies of communicating with Wiki... Maybe this IS (!!!) the way to communicate with you? But it probably isn't? It's the only "at the bottom of the page" that I could get into! Anyway, thanks for your nice words about my site. When I have free time I'll sit down and figure how to do things correctly. My main concern is this: Someone used French accents on the Lorraine/Guise names, and it's devilishly hard to find those entries in the Wiki search slots. For example, if you search "Sebastien de Brossard" instead of "Sébastien de Brossard" you may or may not find him at the bottom. Any advice? Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 18:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi again! You are correct:  the search on "Sebastien de Brossard" is a problem.  The way to solve that is to make a redirect.  I just made one for him:  .  Now when you type his name without the acute accent in the search box, it should go right to the correct place.  (I wish the software were smart enough to redirect automatically from our lazy-English typing to French titles, but it's not.)  Regarding leaving messages on my talk page, if you go to the bottom and click "edit" on the last section on the page, you can leave a new section at the bottom.  I hope Wikipedia editing is not too intimidating; it took me a while to get used to it as well.  Best regards, Antandrus  (talk) 18:23, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

SO: I don't know which works best, so I Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Antandrus"

the following message I left there: "This seems wierd, but I'm following your instructions literally, Antandrus. Maybe the clue is putting message in Edit summary? Thanks for the Redirect info: will try it... Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 18:29, 21 March 2009 (UTC)" And no, I don't think the editing is much worse than formatting books with WordPerfect or producing something at least acceptable with FrontPage (though I've never done HTML markup before...Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 18:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That works! A lot of people (including me) prefer keeping a conversation together on one page, so answering here is fine.  :-)  Most of us put a person's talk page on our watch list (click "watch this page") when we are interacting with them, so we can see when they have responded.
 * By the way, I made a minor correction to your post above: if you begin a line with a space, the software sends the line shooting off the right margin.  That's another minor thing to get used to.  Paragraphs on Wikipedia are best left-aligned.  You can, however, indent an entire paragraph by preceding it with a colon ":".  Cheers!  Antandrus  (talk) 18:35, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * so I've created a Watch list and am trying the indent... and now, off to see some friends! Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 18:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Marie de Guise
Ranumspa: Just dropping by to tell you that I have seen a few of your edits because we happen to work on some of the same pages. I hope you will see nothing wrong with minor changes I brought to Marie de Guise, such as French surnames with *de* not to be translated by *of*, *of* being used only after title in English, and also the delinking of names already blue-linked. It is nice to see someone with real knowledge of the subject being edited. Bienvenue et bonne chance! Frania W. (talk) 01:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I "inherited" from Anon those "of"s and odd nomenclature such as "Marie de Guise" (which no one to my knowledge ever did or does call her! Am studying how to do Redirects...Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Regarding the odd nomenclature, I made a hash of it by (mis?)copying parts of what the French wikipedia article had -- http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_de_Guise_(1615-1688) . I'm happy that my amateurish starting of the English article has been appropriately amended by your professional touch, which pleasantly amazed me when I saw who it was.  (I've enjoyed/benefited from your site/work for some time -- I think I got there initially for the "tu-ru" pronunciation material.)  So, thank you both generally for sharing your work and specifically for these Wikipedia corrections.  Also thanks for changing the bit about Lauzun on the Grande Mademoiselle page.  I wasn't sure enough about it so I didn't touch it before.  There's a section at the end of the mid-19th century English translation/edition of her memoirs that doubts whether the marriage happened too (starting from p. 256 of vol. 3 -- http://books.google.com/books?id=XU0vAAAAMAAJ ).  Many thanks for the ref. to the Vincent Pitts book!  Grandhautbois (talk) 17:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Redirect So, Antandrus, did I do it correctly for "Etienne Loulie"? No sense in doing more unless I have it right! Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * And is there some way to turn the new Google Book citation for Loulié into something more palatable?

And how did "Frania" make a new section to this chat? Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:39, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Greetings again! You've got mail; let me know if you no not get an e-mail, since I've found that the "e-mail this user" mechanism is occasionally unreliable (or maybe no one ever answers my messages ... heh.)  One way to make a new section is to click "edit this page" (the whole page, not a section), scroll to the bottom of the edit window, and add a new section using the section-break syntax ==Put your new section title between the equals signs== .  Another way is to edit the last section on the page, and put the ==Put your new section title between the equals signs== at the very end.  (If you look at what I just wrote in the edit window, you can ignore those little "nowiki" tags -- I have to use them to prevent the new section example from actually making a new section!)
 * Looks like your redirects are well done! Antandrus  (talk) 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Ranumspa, Antandrus was sending the above as I was trying to send what's below:

In order to create a new section, please follow these steps:


 * go up the page where it says *user page* * discussion* *edit this page* ...;
 * click on *edit this page*;
 * you get the part where you can write as you have already done;
 * scroll all the way down until you cannot go any further;
 * type this: ==title of section== and you have a new section.

Now look below and you will see a new section created. Frania W. (talk) 15:51, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Welcome Ranumspa
Dear Patricia, I hope you got it! Frania W. (talk) 15:51, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, and I am of course pleased. I put my comment somewhere else, but I haven't figured out the maze yet, so I would have to track it down! Meanwhile, I'm trying REDIRECTS...Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 16:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Eureka!
Dear all: I think I have it now!

And for all concerned: I plan to fix that Isabelle/Elisabeth stuff... just haven't figured out what is best: at least I've redirected Isabelle to Elisabeth....Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 16:30, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Foreign Prince ; foreign prince ; foreign prince
Bonjour Patricia: RE your battle with foreign prince, look at title of this new section & how foreign prince appears in blue and can be linked to its article. When you do not agree with the way a name or whatever appears in the title of the article you get it from,, copy & paste the title, then write it the way you want it to appear, being sure to separate the two with the vertical wiki mark up.  Cordialement, Frania W. (talk) 14:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That was most helpful, Frania! Shall use it in the future.Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 15:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Marie de Lorraine, Duchess of Guise
Ranumspa: I do not want to correct what you wrote because you know more about the subject than I do;  however, in the following there is something I do not agree with & I'll leave it up to you to change it:
 * "Marie, Duchess of Guise (15 August 1615 – 3 March 1688) was the daughter of Charles, Duke of Guise and Henriette Catherine de Joyeuse and the last member of the House of Guise, a branch of the House of Lorraine."
 * Marie, Duchess of Guise: don't you believe that it should be changed to Marie de Lorraine, Duchess of Guise.

Next, in the Biography section:
 * "Her Highness Marie de Lorraine de Guise was a "foreign princess naturalized in France" (that is, the daughter of a Foreign Prince of the House of Lorraine). After the death of the last male of..."


 * Her Highness Marie de Lorraine de Guise: The title does not belong in this part of the article.  Titles are usually given somewhere else, and once they have been given, it's enough.  So, Her Highness should be removed.
 * Frania W. (talk) 14:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I understand your objections and comments. But over the years I have had a terrible time getting people to realize that Mlle de Guise was just below the royal family in rank, and above duchesses (who did _not_ have the right to be called "Her Highness"). So I hoped I could stick it in, to make people realize how elevated and powerful she was. I'll think and let you know soon.
 * And yes, I absolutely _hate_ the way she is called "Marie, Duchess of Guise," but I don't want to pain the original author. I've already turned the article upside-down. Advice will be appreciated, and I'll think and let you know.
 * That, of course, is why I went into the detail (I hope interesting?) of the way she signed letters....


 * Look at it this way, the beginning of an article on a king does not start with His Majesty Louis XVI but Louis XVI or Louis-Auguste de France. The title or address His Majesty is given somewhere else, usually in infobox.  Frania W. (talk) 18:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I just read the article over again, and it looks right to me.
 * When you know what to delete & replace in an article in order to improve it, you go ahead and do it; that's what Wikipedia is all about, and do not worry about causing "pain to the original author", you can always contact him/her & explain;  in this case, Grandhautbois.  Frania W. (talk) 17:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * No pain at all to me, I'd rather see it corrected than my mistakes perpetuated. :) I'm just happy that the subject is being done justice.  Thanks again.  Grandhautbois (talk) 00:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

To both Grandhautbois and Frania and Antandrus... I have finally figured out why the Guise pages are so wierd. They are based on the French pages, and the person who did them must have been copying from a genealogy where there was a heading "Lorraine" and all the people under it, a bit like an outline. SO: he/she simply omitted the family name all down the outline! It's as if one wrote (under the heading Presidential Candidates) "George H.W., head of CIA" and "George W., owner of football team," and didn't supply the family name! But to find those Guises in any index, be it in English or in French book, 90% of the time you would look under "Lorraine", not under "Guise,": "Lorraine, Marie de, duchesse de Guise" /Lorraine, Marie de, DUchess of Guise," etc. I also figured out how I did the silly redirect for Loulié: I had created the page, got a telephone call, used Explorer to a bookmarked site, and when I returned to Wiki, I arrowed right until I found this sort of screen... and apparently the one I began had gone away and so I published the redirect in the wrong place. I'll be very careful in the future of _that_ trap! Thanks, all, for your patience!Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 13:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Mlle de Guise.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Mlle de Guise.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. Even if you created the image yourself, you still need to release it so Wikipedia can use it. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you made this image yourself, you can use copyright tags like PD-self (to release all rights), (to require that you be credited), or any tag here - just go to the image, click edit, and add one of those. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by STBotI. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 14:22, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I own the engraving, and I scanned a photo of it for this page. I have owned the engraving for 20 years. Please do the necessary so that it can be in Wikipedia --- if Wikipedia wants it. Otherwise, you may delete it and remove it from your system. It's all the same to me. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Messages
I just now replied to "Grande Haubois" (Big Oboe), whose message suddenly was (re)visible to me. But now I can't find the person again under "discussion" or "my talk". And when I click "user page" I get Loulié... is that normal (it's the only page I've created, so probably so?) I feel sometimes like Alice in Wonderland... Down which rabbit hole does one go? ;-)


 * Alice in Wonderland: Oh, la la!!! It takes time to find your way out of the maze.


 * RE Loulié, I am trying to figure out how you got it on your user page. It should not be difficult to redirect it, or redirect your user page, but I am another Alice in Wonderland...


 * RE your msg to Grandhautbois the Oboe, you answered him or her on his/her user page instead of discussion. So, you should copy it from user page & paste it on discussion which has not had anything yet.  Bonne chance,  Frania, the other Alice in Wonderland.
 * Frania W. (talk) 17:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * and I found Grandhaubois!Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 19:21, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Etienne Loulié→→→Étienne Loulié
This is what I believe should be done in order to redirect article on Etienne Loulié to its rightful page:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MovePage/Etienne_Louli%C3%A9

And while you're at it, when you redirect, replace *Etienne* by *Étienne* with accent aigu on capital *E* *É*, which you will find by clicking on *Latin* in box below this screen where you find wiki markup & other goodies.

I hesitate doing this because I do not want your whole page with discussion to be relocated.

Frania W. (talk) 18:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I will do the Capital E... but I hesitated to because so few people, even with European keyboards, can type it directly and who knows the ASCII code for such a rarity? But I'll do it, with a REDIRECT right away.


 * I'll try the redirecting later because, although I am becoming guilty of "dendrocide" (killing trees) owing to all the directions I am printing out, I haven't figured out how to start a new page (which is what I think one does to make a redirect? Actually, that's how I got into trouble on my User Page (Ranumspa): I created Loulié there, and then I created a redirect there somehow... and I am sort of bound up now! I've asked Antandrus for advice, so I'll wait a bit for more advice. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 19:20, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Go ahead with the accent aigu for Étienne Loulié, as orthography of names should be respected. We do it constantly with Elisabeth/Élisabeth and others.  Frania W. (talk) 20:45, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Now, we have to figure out how to get your user page away from article on Étienne Loulié because when we click on Patricia M. Ranum, we still land at Étienne Loulié. You two are stuck together like conjoined twins.  We need surgery experts...
 * Frania W. (talk) 21:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Patricia (and Frania!) Let me see if I can help.  The best way to remove the redirect -- and while I am tempted to fix it myself, I'll be a good teacher and let you drive.  :)  1) click on the "Patriciam M. Ranum" link.  Notice that it goes to the Étienne Loulié page.  Notice that at the top of the page it says "Redirected from User:Ranumspa".  2) Now click on the "User:Ranumspa" link.  Voilà!  You have reached your user page.  3) Now edit it to remove the redirect text; put something else there (either leave it blank, or write something about yourself, or do anything you want:  it's your user page).  When you save it, your user page is restored.  Antandrus  (talk) 00:36, 24 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I've done one other thing for you -- I put the appropriate licensing information on your image of File:Mlle_de_Guise.jpg. Since it is a reproduction of an out-of-copyright work, the  tag applies.  This should be available from a pull-down menu when you first upload the image (go to the image upload page:  the "licensing" section:  see where it says "public domain, copyright expired, photo of a two-dimensional work whose author died more than 100 years ago" -- that's the one to pick).  Once again, I've already fixed that one for you.  Hope this helps!  Antandrus  (talk) 00:44, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Just in case
... you haven't figured it out by now, people are truly happy you are here on Wikipedia, helping make it a better resource! All the best, Antandrus (talk) 00:57, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

In response to "Touchups of Guises, etc"
Dear Frania, I _think_ I have added all the REDIRECTS I can think of to the Guises and Orleanses... and I have tightened a few articles, adjusted the chronologies (it's always hard to see chronologies unless you have worked with the sources, so I'm certainly not being critical of the Anon who did the articles!), and I also corrected some details here and there in the different articles. Sorry that I forgot a few times to show what they were. So now I will stop for a bit and prepare for houseguests --- 2 adults, 2 children, 7 days starting next week. Happy spring to you. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 19:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Dear Patricia: Please note that I brought your note to me on your talk page for you to have a record of it.
 * Just went down the list of what you did today: !  .  As soon as I have a day to myself (or a sleepless night), I will read it all, but not right now as I also have a life waiting for me on the other side of Wikipedia.
 * I am planning on doing some relocation (move) for the Orléans tribe, changing the *of* to *de* in the titles as it is a real mess, some being *of Orléans*, some *d'Orléans*, same with the Bourbons & a few others. I have been working on them starting with Gaston d'Orléans & going down the line to Louis-Philippe roi des Français, trying not to skip any of the daughters of the duc who had so many...  It's going to take a whole day.  For months, one after the other, I have been changing the *of* to *de* (and deleting a lot of trivia) inside each article. I left a comment on the talk page of one of them to be sure no one would be against it, but there was never any answer, which leads me to believe that no one really cares - of course, until I go ahead with the change!
 * What you brought to Marie de Lorraine will enrich all the articles that touch upon her, either family or Baroque music.
 * At the risk of repeating myself: it's nice to have you here. I sincerely hope you are coming back.
 * ''Meilleurs vœux en ce début de printemps et à bientôt! FW
 * Frania W. (talk) 23:35, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

...And rest assured that I will _not_ go in and tamper with any of those files, now that I have added the most important evidence on my shelves. There's one thing: Charles, Duke of Guise (Mlle de G's father) had a son named ROGER. He appears in the list, but without a page. I'm not sure he merits one! So when correcting the info in the article "Jean Baptiste Lully", near the beginning, I retained his _father's_ name and simply identified Roger without creating a page for him. If that's not a good solution, you are welcome to modify it.Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 15:41, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Dear Patricia, here is what I propose before you go spend the summer in your French village (you, poor thing!): we go together through the de Lorraine/de Guise articles you want to work on (= you do the work, I read over your shoulder), add *de Lorraine* wherever you deem necessary, then we redirect the article whenever we change the name of the subject.  By *redirect* I mean that when we bring a change in the title of the article, we must redirect it, same as you did with Étienne Loulié.  For instance, the title of the article Marie, Duchess of Guise is incorrect.  It should be, I believe, Marie de Lorraine, Duchess of Guise, giving her full name in French, but title in English.  As you see, the name of the title as it is now in blue-linked to wikipedia article, while the title as it should be is red-linked.  We want it blue.  When redirected correctly, it will be blue.  If you want, I can put the articles you are editing on my watch list & keep an eye on them while you are slaving the summer away in your French village.  Cordialement,  (Where did you take the photograph of wild crocuses?)  Frania W. (talk) 01:29, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Bonjour Madame! To make sure we do it correctly, I will try redirecting some articles I have been working on, so that there are no problems.  Entre temps, je vous souhaite une bonne fin de carême.  Frania W. (talk) 16:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

DE Lorraine
Dear Frania, for the moment that editing chore has not yet descended upon me, to overwhelm me. I'll be glad to do the "de" Lorraine thing, but I am not sure exactly what you want and where to start and which pages to do. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 17:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Patricia, I did not mean for you to do it but was proposing changing the title of the article on Marie, Duchess of Guise to "Marie de Lorraine, Duchess of Guise" when you'd be around so that you could tell me if it looked correct to you.  Then if you wanted to work on other "de Lorraine" articles, you would know how to do the change.  Cordialement,  Frania W. (talk) 00:23, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Frania, Agreed! Have you made the changes to Mlle de Guise yet? I don't think so? Go ahead and make them and I will read and comment (and not further touch the Mlle de Guise page in the meantime). It will be nice to learn Wikipedia style that way. There are so many ways of doing noble titles, and translating them is such a nightmare! I'll be happy to try to conform as best I can, once I have a model. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 13:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Patricia, I just added here the comment you left on my talk page so that you can follow our exchange directly on yours. FW
 * Dear Patricia: Done & a very simple thing to do when you want to change the title of an article:  go to the commands that are above title of article; click on move; you are brought at a special page; it has 12 lines of blabla under which you can read: Move page/ To new title/ Reason; type the new title & below, give the reason of the move.  For our dear Marie sans nom, Duchess of Guise, I wrote:
 * With surname, she is *Marie de Lorraine* (not only *Marie*), *Duchess of Guise*.
 * Title of article must appear as follows: *Marie de Lorraine, Duchess of Guise*
 * Cordialement, Frania W. (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Patricia, Yes, there is a big clean up to do in order to have some sense of sameness in the titles of articles of most French nobility. I plan on doing it, hoping no one will come behind me & change my changes.  My main objection is that surnames with *de* should remain *de* and not be translated in *of*; for instance:  Philippe dOrléans, Duke of Orléans, instead of Philippe of Orléans, Duke of Orléans'.  You can imagine the project when you know the size of the Orléans tribe!!!  My main argument is no translation of surnames.
 * I will not be at my computer for the most part of the day, just passing by once in a while - busy with other projects. Bonne continuation!  Frania W. (talk) 14:37, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

C'est sûr, vous avez du courage! Je suis tout à fait d'accord: Philippe of Orleans, Duke of Orleans, cela n'a pas de sens. Une promesse: Je n'y toucherai point, ni pendant vos retouches, ni après. J'ai tenté d'expliquer le titre "Bourbon du Maine, chez vous; je ne suis pas sûr d'y être parvenue. 'Tis a can of worms.... Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Bourbon du Maine est sur ma liste de titres à corriger. Il me faudra toute une journée pour tous ces articles.  J'attendrai d'être coincée à la maison pendant une tempête de neige!!!  FW

And how does one change a "stub" to "just about all one can say about a very brief life"? I'm thinking of Louis Joseph Duke of Guise and his son, Francis Joseph (or Francois Joseph, I forget which). Short of going into details about deaths, ... which doesn't belong in an encyclopedia, there isn't much to add to those poor little "stubs."Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I do not know how to answer this one, will have to look into it. FW
 * Frania W. (talk) 15:11, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Patricia, You did figure out what to do to/with the "poor little stubs".  I just read the Louis Joseph Duke of Guise article & added a couple of accents : ma marotte!.  Now, if you want, we could move (= change) the title to Louis Joseph de Lorraine, Duke of Guise. I am back at my computer & do check wiki once in a while in order to take a break.  Aurevoir!  Frania W. (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to your previous explanation, this pupil changed the title to desired one! Will do the stubs next. It's a lovely day here... til thunderstorms later in day. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's like learning how to ride a bicycle: now you're on your own!  Bon Tour de France!  Frania W. (talk) 14:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Explaining copyrights
You said: "I don't know if the automated message will read my comment. I have owned the engraving for over 20 years so it is not subject to copyright. I'll be pleased to share it with Wikipedia but am not interested in doing lots of formalities. I have a lot of other pictures from my collection, but I won't upload them until I am sure I'm not wasting my time"

Firstly, just so you know: the automatic systems do not read replies. We humans do, but the automatic systems post so many messages...

Next, you've gotten some details confused about the principles of copyright.

Just because you personally own the engraving, that does not mean you own the copyright. It means you own that one copy. If I own a copy of a novel, it does not mean I own its copyright. Copyright typically belongs to the person who created the image (or to the person who paid for the image to be created).

That said, the engraving of Mlle de Guise is perfectly acceptable on Wikipedia, because it is old enough to be public-domain artwork. And we are certainly willing to credit you as the source -- "engraving of Mignard, from the personal collection of Patricia M. Ranum" is what it says now.

As for the other images in your collection, we would be pleased to accept them; make sure to specify the age of the images, and that they are public-domain. DS (talk) 04:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply. To someone new to Wikipedia, one does feel that there must be a big brother out there somewhere, but will he be listening? Yes, I know my old pictures are in the "public domain." But I also know that the Bibliothèque nationale de France (which owns copies of some of my engravings) is very sticky about rights and royalties for works in their collection. Even if I owned one of their rarer portraits, I'd think and rethink before putting it on Wikipedia. Hence my doubts: don't want to have trouble with the BN.... But in the future I will put that sort of label on anything I use that comes from my collection. Thanks again. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 13:25, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If you have one copy of an old engraving, and Bibliothèque nationale de France has another copy, they have no claim over any copies you make of the engravings that you own. Occasionally museums will hold some of their works in private and try to prevent copies from being made; but if you already have a copy independent of them, and the copyright over the original has expired (as will be true for essentially anything pre-20th century), it is perfectly legal to reproduce your copy. If you do decide to upload scans of any of your engravings to Wikipedia, I am sure they will be appreciated, but of course it is your decision. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Hotel or Hôtel
Bonjour Patricia!  Absolument! In my opinion, if your "hotel" is followed by "de Guise" =ing French, then I'd put the accent circonflexe to read "Hôtel de Guise". As I travel with a pocketful of accents, I'll bring a few to your texts. Frania W. (talk) 15:18, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Patricia, I just read through Marie de Lorraine, Duchess of Guise and put accents on "hôtel" & "Étienne" and also changed the link of the Orléans mentioned because yesterday I started to rename some of these articles from Whoever of Orléans to Whoever d 'Orléans.  Frania W. (talk) 15:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Élisabeth Marguerite d'Orléans
As for the Duchess of Angoulême, simply go ahead and remove *in her own right* since you have the best argument/proof that it is not correct. Aurevoir! Frania W. (talk) 16:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Hey, welcome back! By the way, thank you for the book; I've been enjoying it! I'll have a look at your article shortly (i.e. when I'm not at work). All the best, Antandrus (talk) 19:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Chronometre assembled.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Chronometre assembled.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Musamies (talk) 18:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. DS (talk) 19:38, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of File:Chronometer assembled.jpg
A tag has been placed on File:Chronometer assembled.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image is an unused redundant copy (all pixels the same or scaled down) of an image in the same file format, which is on Wikipedia (not on Commons), and all inward links have been updated.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Radiant chains (talk) 04:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Small sonometer colored.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Small sonometer colored.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information; to add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia.

For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 18:06, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Helpful hint
You go here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Small_sonometer_colored.jpg - and you click the 'edit' link.

Then you enter the tag, along with a brief explanation of where the image came from.

And when you want to mention the templates by name without actually using them in a page (like I did in the previous paragraph), you use the text  tag. DS (talk) 18:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you! That helped quite a bit! Yes indeed, I was able to "edit" one of the images and I saw that the tag is there. BUT: for the other 2, there was no option to "edit"... simply to "create page". But I apparently did correctly the "license" slots... and those 2 illustrations are marked "in Public Domain."  SO I'm getting a bit closer to doing it right. The main concern is that I don't have to re-load things because it's been zapped because I don't have the right tags, etc. Would it be possible for you check and see if I have done everything correctly? Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 19:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm an administrator, so I have undeletion privileges. Once I finish with my current little project, I'll restore those images for you (shouldn't be more than 15 minutes or so). DS (talk) 19:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Have a good summer everyone!
We set off for our "lost upland" in France in a few days and won't be back til early September. We look forward to the summer and wish a pleasant one to everyone. I will be blissfully computer-less and will have only minimal e-mail: Heaven! Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 13:10, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Bonnes vacances! Frania W. (talk) 20:06, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Images
Hello, thank you for your fine pictures, including that of Marie de Lorraine, Duchess of Guise. If you plan to upload other pictures, please consider uploading them on Wikimedia Commons rather than on the English Wikipedia : the process is the same, but the benefit is huge, since it enables to use the pictures on Wikipedia in other languages than English too, whereas pictures uploaded on the English Wikipedia are restricted to this location only... Bonnes vacances en France. Baronnet (talk) 09:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I have returned from our "Lost Uplands"
I'm back at my computer after 3 blissful months during which all I could do was access my email through a neighbor's computer. I'm currently confronted by doing final tweaks on a manuscript I am editing in collaboration with the Jesuits. But the day will eventually come when I can add new materials on the Guise world and Charpentier. ~

My additions about Manuscript "XLI"
I am rusty because I have been away from Wikipedia for a long time, in large part because I have been devoting most of my time to making sense of this discovery. I'll welcome any cleanup you people want to make. And if you think my added material should go elsewhere in the Charpentier article, or should be rounded out, I can easily do that. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 21:11, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

"Verification"
After many months' absence, I decided to look at the Marc-Antoine Charpentier page and am not sure how to respond the the need for "verification" expressed by Wikipedia at the top of the page. The citations listed at the bottom of the article are all extremely reliable. (I wrote most of them, and each article is full, full, full of archival citations.) So how would one go about providing the "verification" they feel they need? If I could insert footnotes after every sentence, I could prove that the information in the article has been "verified" adequately. But that is pointless! Is this too much of a good thing? I personally think so. Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 18:40, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

More or less finished with re-write of Lully
I've removed redundant materials, references to books so old that they are full of mistakes, naive remarks, factual errors, etc. I have tried to present an overview of Lully, from Bio to genres and pieces in each genre, with dates and places of first performance, and names of poets-authors. I've added lots of footnotes (can add more, of course!) and some further reading.

One problem remains: the "Media" section, which clearly requires one to be Java-enabled; but since reliable computer people have suggested disabling Java until security leaks are plugged (mine is currently disabled), the section is useless for many people. Also, it looks terrible, visually. In addition, the musical group cited doesn't seem to have anything by LULLY online, so I don't know where the links are supposed to lead. There are so many fine recordings to cite and wonderful YouTube videos. I would vote to have the entire contents of the Media section removed and replaced by whatever Wiki allows: YouTube links, or else links to performances by Wm Christie, Herve Niquet, Emmanuelle Haim, who have done performances of Lully's theater, opera and religious music, with wonderfully awesome results.

I pass the torch to someone who will do it ... or who will tell me how to do it.Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 20:45, 6 February 2013 (UTC)Ranumspa

Philippe Goibaut
I think I've just about finished with this article. I have one worry, the REDIRECTS: Initially I wasn't sure how I should handle the spelling options and I tried to use "Goibaud-Dubois" as the skimpy existing page did. But after I had made some redirects, I realized I must move the page to "Philippe Goibaut" without Du Bois... So there probably are some useless redirects out there -- and even worse, that link to "Goibaud Du Bois." But when I try various permutations, they all seem to take me to "Philippe Goibaut." So let's hope.... Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Ranumspa

welcome back
Hi there, I was looking at the article about Joseph Sauveur and saw that it was largely your work, and then I noticed that you'd recently come back to editing here. Just wanted to say welcome back, and let me know if I can help! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 19:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the welcome! I do this sporadically, when I run out of more pressing projects. Goibaud is an interesting character: he deserves his due and I have done my best. I may take you up on the offer, because when one doesn't do something often, minor things become major... like struggling to download an image and insert it ;-) Patricia M. Ranum (talk) 14:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)Ranumspa

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:03, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)