User talk:Raye Smith

December 2023
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did at Political status of Western Sahara, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use your sandbox for that. Thank you. M.Bitton (talk) 14:44, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I provided a valid reason for the removal in the talk page discussion, though I acknowledge it wasn't included in the edit summary. I've clarified my rationale in the editing summary now.
 * My removal is based on constructive considerations. Disagreement with the edit does not automatically warrant a reversal. The United Nations General Secretariat (UNGS) report in 2002 refers to Morocco as the administrative power in Western Sahara, not as an occupying force. This contrasts with the original source, which appears to draw its own conclusion without referencing any international body. I believe this distinction is important for a comprehensive and neutral presentation of the information.
 * Thank you Raye Smith (talk) 15:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Your opinion doesn't justify the removal of content that is attributed to a scholarly source. If you spent some time reading the source in question says, you'd understand the position of the UN (which describes it as what it is, an occupation). I also suggest you familiarize yourself with the difference between a UN report and a UN resolution, though you don't have to in this instance since the scholars analysed the primary sources. M.Bitton (talk) 15:16, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd appreciate a more respectful tone in our discussion.
 * Unlike you, I don't hold a specific opinion or ideology on this matter, as you pointed out yourself ("describes it as what it is, an occupation"). I suggest following your own advice since none of the 31 United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions addressing the situation in Western Sahara term it as an occupation. Instead, they refer to it as a disputed region, a nuance that seems overlooked by some scholars. It's noteworthy that these scholars base their conclusions on two non-binding United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) resolutions, neglecting the perspectives presented in UNSC resolutions or the insights of the United Nations General Secretariat (UNGS), as exemplified by the personal envoy's report I provided.
 * Choosing to ignore the resolutions of international bodies over a secondary source appears to betray the pursuit of truth for ideological beliefs.
 * I find your accusations rather peculiar; notably, even Morocco itself doesn't claim to be an administrative power.
 * I kindly request that you refrain from making such ideological charges and consider reverting the edits. Persistent editing conflicts won't contribute to the resolution of the matter at hand, and the status of Western Sahara won't be altered tomorrow because of an ongoing editing war Raye Smith (talk) 15:44, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Since you started personalizing the discussion, I suggest you start by explaining how the tone is not respectful and then substantiate the Unlike you, I don't hold a specific opinion or ideology on this matter assertion. M.Bitton (talk) 15:50, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * " I also suggest you familiarize yourself with the difference between a UN report and a UN resolution"
 * "Your opinion doesn't justify the removal of content that is attributed to a scholarly source"
 * You initiated the personalization of the discussion, and I responded by highlighting what appears to be your ideological stance on the matter. I want to emphasize that the accusations you're making don't align with the facts. Even Morocco rejects the notion that it serves as the administrative power and has not argued in favor of such a position. Raye Smith (talk) 15:57, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Unlike you, I don't hold a specific opinion or ideology on this matter I expect a valid explanation for this assertion that you seem to be doubling down on with what appears to be your ideological stance. M.Bitton (talk) 16:00, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i did give valid explanation to that assertion directly quoting from you, but it appears that further discussion may not be productive at this time. In light of the ongoing disagreements, I am referring the matter to user and article sanctions for a more formal resolution. Raye Smith (talk) 16:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i did give valid explanation to that assertion directly quoting from you, but it appears that further discussion may not be productive at this time. In light of the ongoing disagreements, I am referring the matter to user and article sanctions for a more formal resolution. Raye Smith (talk) 16:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Political status of Western Sahara. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. M.Bitton (talk) 15:15, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

I've placed this at the bottom for proper flow, and removed the formatting issues introduced by using the reply feature(which currently does not accommodate unblock requests well, the edit window should be opened directly for unblock requests). 331dot (talk) 10:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Someone else will review your request, but it might help if you agreed to not make edits related to Western Sahara. 331dot (talk) 10:51, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I got banned for pointing out a superior source on minor edits related to Western Sahara. Is there an unwritten rule on this topic on Wikipedia? Raye Smith (talk) 12:18, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Unblock discussion
What should you have done instead of edit warring? -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:04, 13 January 2024 (UTC)


 * You seem to have misrepresented what was written in the sock puppet investigation. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I cannot see unblocking you to edit about Political status of Western Sahara. What topics could you edit about in a non confrontational manner? -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:10, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * So, you jumped into a content dispute and accused another editor of political bias or some such. Hmmmm. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:14, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * And then you follow that with a string of personal attacks and aspersions against other editors. Again, hmmm. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:15, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I find myself currently blocked, and I'd like to address the situation with fairness in mind. The editing conflict began with M. Bitton, who initiated an edit war. I actively participated in both the discussion and editing processes, supporting my edits with sources from UNGS and UNCA. The central point of contention arose from a straightforward statement: 'Your opinion doesn't justify the removal of content that is attributed to a scholarly source.' Unfortunately, my edits were reversed without a thorough consideration of the situation, and it seems that there may be a tendency to jump to conclusions.I want to clarify that I did not misrepresent the details in the sock puppet investigation. The initial judgment was labeled as 'technically unrelated.' It's important to ensure that all perspectives are taken into account to maintain a fair and accurate representation of the situation. Raye Smith (talk) 12:05, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Initiated an edit war. Nonsense. Please describe what you should have done instead of edit warring and instead of making a personal attack. Thanks. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 12:25, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * If you fail to adequately address the reasons for your block instead of blaming others and trying to justify your behavior, and if no one beats me to it, I intend to decline this request tomorrow. Thanks -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 12:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Suggested read: WP:EW, WP:DR, WP:NPA. Please apply this information to your past conduct and what your conduct would be like were you to be unblocked. Thanks. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:18, 14 January 2024 (UTC)