User talk:Reargunner

In your edit summary comment you say "I am still waiting for a reason why this word is added," presumably referring to the word "apparently". As I've said to you several times before, you can read the discussion of this issue here. As I explain in that discussion, the article does not say that "Gordievsky apparently identifies Hiss." The word "apparently" is not applied to Gordievsky at all. The article describes the only point in Gordievsky's book where Gordievsky is described as witnessing something with his own eyes. This point is where he attends a lecture. The only thing that is said about Hiss with regards to that lecture is that "Akhmerov mentioned Hiss only briefly." Therefor the article says "Akhmerov identified Hiss, apparently as an agent."

I know that there is a lot of other material about Hiss in the Gordievsky book. However, according to Allen Weinstein, the only notable piece of material is the Akhmerov lecture. The other material about Hiss apparently came from other sources, not from Gordievsky's own experience.

Hopefully this clarifies the issue to you. If you have anything to contribute to this discussion, please do so at the discussion page linked above. Please do not edit an article while refusing to discuss your edits. Please do not leave edit summary comments saying that something hasn't been explained and discussed when it has been explained and discussed.

Thank you, RedSpruce 13:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is Allen Weinstein in his own words
 * http://www.nybooks.com/articles/983
 * I would also like to clarify another, unrelated brief episode described in Perjury. One of those who identified Alger Hiss as a Soviet agent, claiming that he had heard of Hiss's involvement during World War II, was Oleg Gordievsky, a key Soviet intelligence official who defected in Great Britain during the 1980s. In a 1990 book on the KGB—written with the British academic Christopher Andrew—Gordievsky described a lecture to a KGB audience by Akhmerov, who mentioned Hiss among Soviet agents in the United States.
 * There is nothing apparent about it even in Allen Weinstein view.
 * Of course Oleg Gordievsky thinks that Hiss was a spy goes without saying.
 * I ask that you let me remove that word
 * Reargunner 14:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your response. As I said, the word "apparently" is appropriate because of the way Gordievsky describes his own experience with hearing about Hiss: "Akhmerov mentioned Hiss only briefly." That is the text from Gordievsky's book. That's all; just that 5-word sentence. It's being generous to people who believe in Hiss's guilt to say that "Akhmerov identified Hiss, apparently as an agent." It would be more accurate to simply say "Gordievsky attended a lecture in which Akhmerov mentioned Hiss's name." what Gordievsky thinks isn't at issue. The question is what did he witness with his own eyes.
 * By the way, I'm aware of the letter to the editor that you gave me link to. That's one of the sources I've used to justify my version of the Oleg Gordievsky section.
 * You can reply here. RedSpruce 14:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

If you knew of the letter then why bring up Allen Weinstein?

We have a section titled Gordievsky, as such in this section what he thinks is important. Gordievsky believes that Hiss was a spy.

Why don't we say something like this.

Gordievsky in his book on the KGB described a lecture to a KGB audience by Akhmerov, who mentioned Hiss briefly among Soviet agents in the United States as a result Oleg Antonovich Gordievsky is convinced of Hiss guilt. Reargunner 13:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, the entire text "among Soviet agents in the United States as a result Oleg Antonovich Gordievsky is convinced of Hiss guilt." is made up. There's no evidence to support any of it. We don't know that Hiss was mentioned "among Soviet agents in the United States". That seems likely, and that's why I used the word "apparently." We certainly don't know whether Gordievsky is convinced of Hiss's guilt because of this lecture or because of reading Weinstein's book Perjury, or because of something else. That's why what Gordievsky thinks isn't important. Sure, he's convinced that Hiss was a spy, but he doesn't indicate why he believes this. Gordievsky is worth mentioning only because of the evidence he provides. This evidence consists only of the 5-word sentence: "Akhmerov mentioned Hiss only briefly." RedSpruce 13:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

????????

The context of the lecture was discussing wartime Soviet agents in the U.S.

Okay so we have a section titled with Gordievsky in a page for Hiss. I think we should say that Gordievsky thinks that Hiss is guilty. Let the reader make his own mind. Reargunner 14:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The article should say what someone thinks if there's some reason why that person's opinion is especially notable. Gordievsky's opinion isn't especially notable. The only thing that's notable about Gordievsky is what he witnessed. And "apparently" is still called for. The quoted text doesn't say that Hiss was identified as an agent, but it's reasonable to assume that he was identified as an agent. That's what "apparently" means. RedSpruce 17:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree completely with your latest edit. Thanks! RedSpruce 11:26, 2 August 2007 (UTC)