User talk:Red King/Archive 1

Irish topics
Hi there,

I noticed your edits to Aran Islands. If you are interested in Irish topics, you may wish to visit the Irish Wikipedians' notice board that some of us use for collaboration, notices and information.

Hope you are enjoying your wiki-ing!

zoney &#09827; talk 19:10, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Book of Kells
Hi, I reverted your edit to the Book of Kells. When the title of an article is used in the first sentence and is in bold, we don't put links in it (See Manual of Style). Kells is linked from the article the first time it is mentioned when not part of the phrase "Book of Kells". Dsmdgold 01:18, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, that's fair. Thanks for explaining.

Good work on the act of settlement article Jdorney


 * Thanks - I'm impressed that you like it given than it is your field.  I only wanted to do something on the Plantations of Queen's County (neé Leix, now Laois) and it turned into a total can of worms. I still need to find facts on the Act of Settlement and Explanation to write that.  Actually, I think a major article needs to be written on the Plantations of Ireland (not just the Plantation of Ulster as at present.) --Red King 10:20, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, good point, its a daunting prospect though. During the 16th century, the Elizabethans had litterally hundreds of small plantations around Ireland, by which they hoped to anglicise the country. To my knowledge, the the plantation of Laois and Offally (Queens county, Kings county) were done in the 1540s to displace the O'Moore and O'Connor clans from around the pale, because they'd made a habit of attacking it. Its famous because it was the first plantation, but it wasn't a great success, because the O'Moores and O'Connors spent the next 30 years attacking the settlers. Where this gets confusing though is that there would have been more British or Protestant settlement in this area in the early 17th century when Ireland was far more pacified. And this is just one example. I might do a short article trying to list the more important plantations though. All the best, Jdorney
 * I'd like to be reminded of where does "More Irish than the Irish themselves" fit in.

Well, this term is usually applied to the "Old English" - the medieval anglo-norman settlers in Ireland. Most of them became integrated into Irish society over the years, and after the 16th century, they tended to be lumped in together with the Gaelic Irish as "Irish Papists" ie Roman Catholics - especially by the English. The "New English" settlers (from the 16c onwards) on were perceived as a new and hostile group in Ireland -they werre Protestants and more importantly, they were ambitious and tried to aquire the land and political power in the country. Richard Boyle, 1st Earl of Cork is the classic example of the ambitious New English settler. "More Irish than the Irish" didn't usually apply to this group - who came to rule Irieland in the 17th 18th and most of the 19th century. Having said that, English settlers who followed the Catholic religion usually became part of the "native Irish" community by default, and after the 17th century, a lot of Irish Protestants did come to see themselves as Irish -eg the United Irishmen. Hope this helps, Jdorney

Rockall
The text "the designation (U.K.) is in dispute." is not stating that the ownership of the island is dispute but that the use of UK on the "caption" is in dispute. The island is actually part of the UK by Act of Parliament and no other country has officially incorporated the island into their nation. Just like the Isle of Wight or Gibraltar the place is de facto and de jure administered from the United Kingdom. Yes several nations claim the isle as thier own, but only one nation has it in law. Just like Jersey and Guernsey on the same map, Rockall is part of the UK at the moment. Whether France or Ireland or the man on the moon choose to not recognise that the Isle of Wight is part is of the UK is irrelevant to its status and the same is true of Rockall. No other nation is in active possession or has taken any steps to lay claim either through legal means or by threat of occupation. Argentina claims the Falkland Islands but UK appears on the map. The designation of UK on the isle for the map is correct. Jooler 12:00, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, the use of UK on the caption is in dispute. The UK Parliament could make an Act claiming that Alpha Centauri is part of the UK, but that wouldn't make it so.  No other nation has incorporated it because rocks have no status.  The place is 'not de facto part of the UK because it is uninhabitable (unlike island off the coast of Scotland that have been abandoned, and no Act of the UK Parliament (to feed the British tabloids) is capable of overturning international law.

Ireland town Infobox
Actually, I used the yellow to differentiate between cities (red) and towns--plus it's a smaller graphic (in size). But me see what I can come up with. -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 00:40, 15 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Changed color and added Irish Grid Reference: it's field  .  There will still be a bunch of cities to update that already have the infobox!  But that's for another day....-- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 01:31, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Appropriate map for Irish towns and cities
I did it this way because that's the way the Irish cities had already been done by Zoney. And smaller towns are much more likely than cities to be viewed in the context of the counties rather than the entire country (i.e., my logic was, if the cities like Dublin and Limerick were done that way, then certainly we should expect it of towns).

Maybe make Ireland bigger in the county graphics, so we can see better where the county is located?

Re: Dundalk, I looked at the map at Map of County Louth, and I'm not sure what the issue is with Dundalk.  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 15:34, 16 May 2005 (UTC)


 * it is such a tiny county that it will probably show as one pixel on the map of Ireland :) But let's see. --Red King 17:19, 16 May 2005 (UTC)


 * What about something like this?:  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 18:24, 16 May 2005 (UTC) [[Image:Ireland map County Louth.png|frame|Map of Ireland with County Louth extruded]]


 * Yes, that looks a lot better. I noticed something similar with Bristol.  You might need to try it with County Cork and County Galway to see how it will fit in the info box.  Also, an inland county like County Westmeath --Red King 08:55, 17 May 2005 (UTC)


 * DUBLIN: : I'm thinking I'm beginning to see the problem...what browser are you using? It shouldn't matter, of course, but I'm now showing Dublin in the suburb of Palmerstown, all the way to the west!  -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 16:21, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * IE 6.0.2900 WinXP SP2. Like about 95% of the internet.  Btw, Galway has lost its splat completely.


 * Actually, Internet Explorer as a whole is down to 80% and falling--and likely to continue to fall until IE becomes CSS 2.1 compliant. Working on that Galway splat... The Dublin issue was more because the graphic was of a different size than the rest.  I've adjusted it.  Now I think I need to adjust the citybox again... -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 17:45, 17 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I've made some updated maps, and carried the conversation forward to Wikipedia talk:Irish Wikipedians' notice board .  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 01:28, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Portuguese keyboard
My keyboard is Portuguese it has the [çÇ] [ºª] [´`] [^~] etc. in the wright place (near the ENTER)
 * example (the last one is the Alt Gr)
 * [1!] [2"@] [3#£] [4$§] [5%€] [6&] [7/{] etc...
 * the € sign is not written in key 5. it is written on the key [E €]
 * In my old keyboard only the AltGr +5 worked (but I think with WinXp the E worked), it is an old keyboard that I bought in 1998, but it is a bit older (for windows 95), cause I like it, I used one similar in school. This one is wireless but it is Portuguese! I wouldnt buy an US keyboard, it would be useless. -Pedro 13:53, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I dont remember well, but there were distributed new fonts. Portuguese computer keyboards are all QWERTY, the real Portuguese keyboards (HCESAR) were only used in old typewriters, _I studied administration when I was 14. The configuration of the keyboard says (in portuguese): standard keyboard of 101 or 102 keys or Microsoft Natural PS/2 - the keys are in the same place as in my old keyboard.
 * In Opções regionais e idioma (Regional and Language options) I have (in Portuguese): Português (Portugal). I'm using pt-PT. And when I install windows appers en-US. When I use it, the keys are completly changed, sometimes in old DOS, only en-US is supported, you cant imagine the headache that I had! Cause all (except main letters) changes: the commas, accents, the ç \ ! < > etc... for example writing:  c:\ is/was a hard task.
 * I didnt use the € when I had the windows 95, the euro name didnt exist at the time, it was called ECU (During a Madrid meeting Portugal -and Spain- wanted the name changed to Euro or Real, because there were an hit Pimba song in Portugal about the ECU (pronunced "é cu"), it is also a Portuguese slang for "it's an ass" this was in late 1990s). but I used my win 95 keyboard with Windows 98 SE, and it worked, using ALT GR+5. By then the euro existed. Today I can use ALT GR+5 or ALTGR+E, both work well. -Pedro 15:08, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Conas atá tú?
The Irish wikipedia is in desperate need of contributors. At the moment there is around 5 active wikipedians(or vicipéideoirí in Irish). If you can, come and help us at ga, it doesn't matter your standard of Irish, there are people there to correct it for you. We're at 778 articles at the moment and pushing for 1,000 but it's slow work with so few contributors. So come and help us please. Bí ann! - Dalta 22:09, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Arra, Don't worry about that, it doesn't matter your level of Irish, whatever you can add, add it. There's plenty of people around to correct it for you. If you need a dictionary I know an online one(I can't remember if I sent it to you or not). Just go on to ga: and start writing. We need people on it. - Dalta 16:27, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Italian-English Ireland...
Hey Red,

Could you take a look at towns to translate and see if we've gotten what we need from Wikipedia Italiana?  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 22:31, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Revert of case for UK euroscepticism
Whilst I strongly disagree with what the eurosceptic contributor had to say in Euro, I do think you ought to have managed his contribution into some kind of context, rather than simply delete it. That is the lazy way out and implies that there is no reasoned response to his view. --Red King 23:47, 28 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I largely agree with your comments. My first attempt was to try to find a way to edit the contribution.  The missue of terminology in the contribution made it difficult for me to edit, let alone trying to tackle it from a more substantive perspective.  Deleting it was a shortcut that perhaps I shouldn't have taken.  Do you have any suggestions on a text that can incorporate his comments in a balanced way?  Parmaestro 00:04, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Image:Alghero2004May.jpg
There exists no licence in the description of the picture. de:User:FEXX

Code at Dublin
Thanks for fixing those images at Dublin. I did a poor job, and I didn't know how to keep trying :) Sarg 17:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Seiges of Galway
Thanks for adding the map! Fergananim

One question; was it yourself that put in the likes of the following ( Ó Brían, Ó Ruairc, De Burgh) on the seiges page? Why so? Cheers. Fergananim

Belfast Blitz

 * The BBC has a time line:
 * 4.15: John McDermott phones Sir Basil Brooke to ask permission to request fire engines from Eire
 * 4.35am: De Valera agrees to send fire tenders to North
 * 6.45: 70 men + 13 fire engines from Dublin, Dun Laoghaire, Drogheda and Dundalk speed Northwards
 * A retired fire-fighter, who was there, told me that it was at the Cardinal’s request!!
 * The article should note the efforts of Irish mariners. The kept Ireland functioning.  If it was not for Irish food exports, Britain would have starved.--ClemMcGann 13:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll ckeck for other sources (when I get a minute). As for the food exports, thats just facts, and if we were not neutral then the Irish sea would again become 'U-boat Alley'.  ps if you have an idle moment do visit the Old Mariners' Church 1-5 this Sat, Sun or Mon. --ClemMcGann 13:32, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Page move
I just checked through the history of the WP:RM page along with your contribution history and there isn't anything that indicates that the page was listed there. This is probably down to an edit conflict or server error, leading to your submission not being added. I've commented on the talk page of that article and moved it too. violet/riga (t) 14:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ó Brían
Yes, it was I who put in the "nbsp" between the "Ó" and the "Brían".

The reason is that it looks really ugly to separate the "Ó" (or "de" or "fitz" or "mac" or even "von") from the main part of the name, across a line break. ("nbsp" is a "non-breaking space"). I expect that user:Everson can give you the theoretical/typographical basis.

I'm on less solid ground in preferring "Ó" and "Brían" to "O" and "Brian" in an article in English. If you really don't like it, well you wrote the article so it's your call if you want to revert it. --Red King 23:05, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hello Red King, Fergananim here. Thanks for giveing me your reasons, but I have to confess I still don't understand them. The likes of this - Toirdhealbhach Ó Brían - looks terrible on the page, and thus I don't follow your reasoning for putting in at all.

These prefixes were written as such even in the original source materials. In the case of O, it was derived from hua (or Hua), and denoted so-and-so was the grandson/and-or/descendant-of a certain person, so its valid to seperate them. Same for de, fitz, and mac. For example, McDermot is really Mac Dermot; FitzGerald is now in this form, but Maurice fitz Gerald was written as you see it, because he had no surname. Same thing when I refer to the likes of Aedh mac Cathal, instead of calling him Aedh O Conchobhair.

As to the O vs. Ó contraversey, most learned people I know of go with the former and despense with the latter (as well as O' and such like) altogether.

I'm not angry with your reverts, just puzzled. And before I do anything further to the article in question, I would very much like to hear you explain your poilnt of view to my (very muddled these days) mind. That's what wikipedia is all about. Cheers! Fergananim
 * Oh dear. I intended to use & nbsp ;, not . I have apologised to Fergananim and reverted. --Red King 13:35, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh NOW I see wha you meant. Cheers! Feel free to drop a line and/or revision anytime. Fergananim

Late Night Edits
''By the way, a round of applause to the user at 83.70.154.81 for an excellent set of late night edits on 3 June! I really enjoyed "not worth the vellum it was enscribed upon" :) '' Thank you, King. Flattery will get you most places! Fergananim

pigs and the euro

 * Boa noite! Good evening. I saw that it wasnt you, but you should remove it. Calling "pig" to someone or a country isnt very nice, at least in here... -Pedro
 * You know enough. Yes, I think we need that category. :D LOL You forgot to learn how to say thank you: "obrigado". hugs ;) -Pedro 11:33, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

KInvara
I wouldn't worry so much about the "edit war" at Kinvara. Mac seems to think everything gets an Irish name no matter what Wikipedia policy says about English and "Native" languages (just follow his contributions). One of us travels over and undoes his changes. If it gets too bad we'll take it up with Request for Comment, but for now he's actually making some headway. I let his move of Costelloe to Casla stand based on Kiand's acceptance of it. &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 30 June 2005 12:48 (UTC)

Casla
I think we all know about that... In which case we treat Irish as a foreign language (it is) and defer to the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). As some towns' Irish names have gained wide accpetance in English, some names are going to still be in Irish. I've written the first few bits for the Manual of Style (Irish articles). And I have a feeling this is going to be a long and involved process. &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 30 June 2005 17:27 (UTC)