User talk:Reddrryder

Welcome!
Hello, Reddrryder, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as World&, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type help me on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! JHU bal  27  21:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
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Proposed deletion of World's First Nuclear Power Generated Electricity Used A Jensen 50 Steam Engine


The article World's First Nuclear Power Generated Electricity Used A Jensen 50 Steam Engine has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Reads too much like an essay and perhaps does not meet notability guidelines for this project.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. JHU bal  27  21:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

First, thank you, JHUbal27. I appreciate your suggestions and I would like to bring this into compliance and get it on the right page. The X-10 page you mentioned is likely the right place. I will need some help. Can I get a phone number so I can reach out for guidance? I can't even figure out how to send someone a message. Regards, Gil (reddrryder)

Reactor article
Hello, I'm replying here to your message on the article's talk page, as it may not be around long unfortunately. The reason it was tagged for deletion as an Essay was that, well, it frankly does read like one. The title, for example, should be the name of what is being discussed, not a sentence such as is there now. I would read This Link which goes over all the various things looked for in a new article.

That said, I think as far as this issue goes, the best thing would be to start a discussion on the Talk Page of one of the 2 articles we have on the reactors you mentioned: Talk:Experimental Breeder Reactor I or Talk:X-10 Graphite Reactor (but not on both, to keep things centralized). Propose your edits there, and present the sources you have, to back them up. (Handy link: WP:RS for what we look for in a reliable source.) A discussion should ensue about whether those edits are supportable and whether it warrants changing the 2 articles to reflect what you say.

Feel free to ask me any questions, and welcome! Crow  Caw 00:51, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Crow, for your response and suggestions. I clearly need help and I have no idea how to even send a message. Can I possibly get a phone number to call for help and a good time to call (not tonight, It's late here and I rise early for work. Regards, Gil Garceau (reddrryder)
 * Hi, Wikipedia is run by volunteers, so there won't be a phone number to call. If you want more help, stop by the Teahouse, the IRC channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. I think the IRC channel would be best if you want real time help. &mdash; kikichugirl  speak up! 03:51, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of World's First Nuclear Power Generated Electricity Used A Jensen 50 Steam Engine for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article World's First Nuclear Power Generated Electricity Used A Jensen 50 Steam Engine is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/World's First Nuclear Power Generated Electricity Used A Jensen 50 Steam Engine until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. JHU bal  27  00:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If someone wants to change the title by dropping the words "Used A Jensen 50 Steam Engine" so it simply reads "World's First Nuclear Power Generated Electricity", I would be grateful.
 * Or if necessary, Remove the whole article and re-enter it with a corrected title and the changes that gave it much more usable links. Thank you, Reddrryder (talk) 22:33, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Your email
Hello Gil,

I received your email. I suggest that you start by reading Your first article. Then, read every Wikipedia article that you can find about the early days of generation of electricity by nuclear power. Then, take a look at some of our Good articles about science and technology. Emulate them.

The article title is terrible, if you will excuse my frankness. The sources are sketchy. A YouTube video that you produced is not a reliable source. You cannot include any of your own research on Wikipedia, because we do not publish original research. We only summarize what reliable sources say about a topic. The fact that you drove thousands of miles to investigate this experiment says a lot about your enthusiasm for the story of this early nuclear power research, but your long road trip is of no relevance to this encyclopedia, I am afraid.

Personally, I find it interesting that somebody in 1948 used a nuclear source to boil some water to power a hobbyist model steam engine to drive a generator to produce enough electricity to power a flashlight bulb. Did I get that right? But I am uncertain that such a rudimentary experiment deserves its own encyclopedia article. It depends on the depth of coverage in reliable sources. I am unsure that the newsletter you linked to is enough.

You should be looking at the highest quality, most in-depth academic histories of the development of electrical generation by nuclear power. Do those reliable sources discuss this experiment? If so, perhaps an article is justified. Otherwise, a sentence or two in a broader article about nuclear power may be more appropriate. I find the topic interesting and thank you for your inquiry. Jim Heaphy Cullen328   Let's discuss it  05:43, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Jim, Thank you kindly for your review and assessment. First I had no idea how important it is that original research does not end up here. First about sources of info: while the news article has some info in it, all of this info is available to the public at the Oak Ridge National Labs and on their website as well.
 * Your description of the experiment is pretty accurate and I will add that, as rudimentary as it seems, it was designed by engineers and it was a complete working fully functional nuclear power plant in miniature and powered by steam just as they are today. The main difference is they are all steam turbines for larger scale operations. Piston driven steam engines work just as well in miniature as do their larger brethren. Turbines do not scale down well. All of this info can be seen in the link to pictures at the ORNL. We also know there was work on nuclear power plant design at Oak Ridge a year earlier. A design drawing of a nuclear power plant from 1947 that came from Oak Ridge (then called Clinton Laboratories) was published by Clark Goodman, MIT, 1947.


 * All said I suspect that it still may fit better as an add on to an existing article such as the one about the wiki piece about the X-10 Graphite Reactor.
 * Can information obtained directly from the Oak Ridge National labs be used? Or would that, once again, be considered original research?
 * There is more. It seems that it was somehow agreed back then that when the Arco, Idaho facility was built and brought on line that they would take credit for developing the world's first ever nuclear power plant. That is likely because The Idaho project, EBR-I, was the officially funded project even though they made use of the principles that were engineered, developed, and tested, 3 years earlier in Oak Ridge.
 * This story ought to be told. Am I opening a can of worms here?
 * And am I in the wrong place to tell it?
 * Thank you, Gil Reddrryder (talk) 13:01, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There is no can of worms, but you are in the wrong place to tell this story from archived material. The archived materials, if they are published anywhere, can be used to create an article. A big starting place would be to title it like an encyclopedia article. Have you ever read Britannica? Can you find a single article with a title that is any way similar to the title you chose for this article? No. That becomes a red flag to Wikipedia writers that the article does not belong here. If the information is published somewhere, then be guided by the titles of the articles where the information is published. If the information is only an archive of pictures and internal reports, then it must be published elsewhere and noticed by others before it is appropriate for Wikipedia. MicroPaLeo (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Here are reference pictures and the text with them from ORNL.gov website. (likely wrong format could someone please fix?
 * First atomic power plant at X-10 Graphite Reactor, September 3, 1948.
 * http://web.ornl.gov/ornlhome/history/Graphite_Reactor/Full/529289.jpg
 * First Atomic Power Plant at X-10 Graphite Reactor, September 3, 1948.
 * http://web.ornl.gov/ornlhome/history/Graphite_Reactor/Full/529293.jpg


 * Toy engine that used heat from the Graphite Reactor to demonstrate that nuclear power could generate electricity, September 3, 1948.
 * http://web.ornl.gov/ornlhome/history/Graphite_Reactor/Full/529291.jpg
 * ORNL HISTORY PHOTO - Logan Emlet of the Laboratory Operations Division inspects the toy engine that used heat from the Graphite Reactor to demonstrate that nuclear power could generate electricity, September 3, 1948.
 * http://web.ornl.gov/ornlhome/history/Graphite_Reactor/Full/529292.jpg