User talk:RegentsPark/Archive 14

Something weird
I just went on RC patrol and saw a user editing another users sandbox, it looks like this new guy has opened two accounts I doubt he knows about socking or such so could you have a word with him please? Darkness Shines (talk) 02:40, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Opening multiple accounts is not necessarily socking. I'd just drop a welcome message on his/her page and see where it goes. I could be wrong but the signs are that this may be a corporate account or an organization of some sort (which would be a different problem) but let's wait and see. --regentspark (comment) 02:54, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Turns out this is a school project. See User:Michaelh.dick/sandbox. --regentspark (comment) 21:11, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to discuss
I saw your comment on WP:Articles for deletion/Allegations of support system in Pakistan for Osama bin Laden page. I see you have experience. Hence, I humbly request you to provide your feedback here, I hope you don't mind. Your opinion will be much appreciated if you respond. Thank you. Mrt3366  (Talk?)   19:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The article is merely a compendium of allegations that are already in the death of bin laden article. To me, the article appears to be a POV fork designed to highlight an anti-Pakistan point (the fact that the article was created by mukeshkumaryadav does not surprise me). Let's just see how the AfD plays out. --regentspark (comment) 20:10, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to seem persistent here but I am also perplexed. So could you please enlighten me as to exactly which of the notability guidelines does the subject of this article not meet? What qualifies as a "POV fork" or not, is itself based on a POV judgement, don't you think?
 * "compendium of allegations" — well-verified, note-worthy allegations of paramount importance by some very notable political figures, yes.
 * And I would be very obliged if you could explain specifically how the WP:POVFORK applies to the deletion discussion at hand. Don't mind but, IMO, the sole claim of POV is itself a POV. I, for one, do not think that the article is based upon patent nonsense. Plus, of course, there are acceptable forms of forking.
 * As a side note, I don't know, nor do I care, who "mukeshkumaryadav" is. Mrt3366   (Talk?)   07:28, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * From WP:POVFORK. another version of the article (or another article on the same subject) is created to be developed according to a particular point of view. Now, if you don't mind, I've given my opinion in the deletion discussion and have no particular interest in whether the article stays or goes. Let's just leave it at that. --regentspark (comment) 12:21, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 August 2012

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RM close review
Needless to say, I find your close decision quite surprising. I would like to ask you to reconsider. My read of 10 out of 12 !votes for "global financial crisis of 2008" is that it does count as consensus. User:Smallbones and User:Bobrayner, it seems, were under the same impression. In your close you never even referred to that !vote count. Did you miss it? If not, I should let you know that I will be considering to put this administrative action for review and seek your input. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 19:47, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Yaniv256. Yes, I did see the table - kinda hard to miss :). But, do note that consensus is not a matter of vote counting. Reading the discussion, two things were clear: (1) that there was a concern that limiting the title to only 2008 would be too restrictive, and (2) that there was only reluctant support for the 2008 only title. Under such circumstances, I have no choice but to assume that there is no consensus title and, generally, that means that the current title stays. No consensus is not an endorsement of the current title, you need to work at figuring out an alternative or wait for reality to catch up. Meanwhile, of course you can take this to a move review. That process exists to be used. Warm regards. --regentspark (comment) 00:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Would you mind clearifing what you mean by "wait for reality to catch up"? &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 01:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * In this context, what I mean is that reliable sources will tell us what to call the crisis. --regentspark (comment) 02:28, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I am particularly intrigued by, 1) how come my David Romer 4ed Econ PhD macro textbook and the many sources provided by Smallbones were not good enough for you, and 2) why did you not join the discussion to raise such concerns, letting the sources provided go unchallenged and so undefended. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 03:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * And 3) I was under the impression that a no consensus decision is warranted when it adequately describes the positions expressed by the discussion participants, regardless of the merit or fault of the sources they mulled over in their discussion. Am I missing something? &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 03:43, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) It occurred to me that you may not understand that the reason we didn't spend much time discussing sources is that this has been endlessly discussed in previous RfCs and we were all quite familiar with facts that you may not be aware of. Could that be the case? &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 10:28, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Yaniv256. I did scan the prior discussions. My understanding from those discussions is that limiting the crisis to 2008 is, at best, iffy. Your econ textbook, for example, explicitly includes "and beyond" and many of the sources discussed carry the crisis on, at the least through 2009. The chief argument raised against the move in this move discussion (mainly by fred bauder and futuretrillionaire) is the the crisis is still ongoing and that seems better supported than the implication, in the proposed title, that the crisis was limited to 2008. --regentspark (comment) 11:58, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * And your response to points 2-4 is?&rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 13:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * (2) If I participate in the discussion, I cannot close it. (Please read Requested_moves/Closing_instructions). Generally, it is up to the participants in the discussion to present their case and for the uninvolved editor to evaluate the case as presented. Since I have no opinion either way, I can't really contribute to the discussion itself. (3) I'm not sure I understand you there (your wording is a tad convoluted). Generally, consensus is determined by evaluating arguments not by counting votes. In this case, as I've said above, the arguments to move were weak and did not, in particular, address the issues raised by fred bauder and futuretrillionaire. (4) I believe I've already answered this question above. --regentspark (comment) 15:38, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I believe I understand your response to points 1-3. However, I still fail to see where did you address the Google Scholar evidence regarding the use of "finanicial crisis of 2008" as a common name, relative to the current name, preserved by your close by the heavy-handed virtue of the move-protect. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 16:11, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it would help if I post it here: The first four hits on a google scholar search of "financial crisis of 2008" are
 * "Bank lending during the financial crisis of 2008 ...V Ivashina… - Journal of Financial Economics, 2010 ...Cited by 382"


 * "Facts and Myths about the Financial Crisis of 2008 ...VV Chari, L Christiano… - Federal Reserve Bank of …, 2008 ...Cited by 100 ..."


 * "(BOOK) The financial crisis of 2008 and the developing countries ... WA Naudé… - 2009 - econ.tu.ac.th ...Cited by 72"


 * "(BOOK) The new paradigm for financial markets: The credit crisis of 2008 and what it means...G Soros - 2008 - books.google.com ...Cited by 338"


 * These are all authoritative well-cited publications. But there are no exact hits for either "2007-2012 global financial crisis" or "2007-2012 financial crisis". This is because nobody who is anybody calls it that. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 16:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You may be correct that no one else calls it that. But, that may just be because there is no well defined name for this event as yet (i.e., reality has not yet caught up). Also, there are many more sources that appear to not use your preferred title and also refer to the crisis in the present tense. I tried looking but couldn't immediately find it, but someone gave a long list of current references that indicated that the crisis was an ongoing one. The point is that there is no clear indication (actually a lot less) from the sources as to what to call the article. In which case, the default action is pretty much whatever the status quo is. --regentspark (comment) 16:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC) Found it. User Xaliqen's list. --regentspark (comment) 16:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The facts you cite in your response to point 4 are common knowledge. In particular, I believe each of the 12 participants of the debate was completely aware that they are indeed true. Yet 10 out of 12 regraded that the body of evidence suggest we should change the name to Global financial crisis of 2008. You, however considered your personal judgment superior. Could you comment on that, and relate it to the statement you made in the discussion section of your request for adminship? In particular, and I quote:
 * "I believe that the opinions of others, properly cited and referenced, carry as much weight, if not more, than mine (also properly grounded in WP:RS) do."

- Regent's Park (Boating Lake)


 * &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 17:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for bringing that up. I assume you now understand my rationale and that's good. --regentspark (comment) 18:08, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You assume false. Would you care to explain your rationale, as it relates to that quote? &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 18:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yaniv256, in this case there are multiple reliable sources that say different things. And, this is not a question of my opinions, I'm just reading the sources provided by participants in the discussions. I'd love to write a thesis that connects your extract from my RfA to the decision on this particular RM but that is not the point at issue here. I've explained my rationale for the close. I'll try to explain it in simpler words for you: "There is sufficient evidence provided by discussion participants that the crisis went beyond 2008. At least as far as 2009 if not to the present day. There is no consensus in the literature, none evidenced in the discussion that is, as to what to call this particular crisis. Therefore the article stays where it is with a 'no consensus' decision." --regentspark (comment) 18:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

As I consider the primary issue your overstep of the adminship role, and the fate of the "financial crisis" page only a secondary one, I suggest we continue this discussion in dispute resolution. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 18:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That's perfect. Thanks. --regentspark (comment) 21:30, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not familiar with the procedure, just guessing really that it may be appropriate, what is the next step? &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 21:48, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am also kind of exhausted by this and would like a break from dealing with it. Would you mind if I let it sit for a while before taking it there, and perhaps have some time to rethink my position? &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 22:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sitting down and thinking about things is never a bad idea. In my experience (if you don't mind my 'advising' you), getting overly involved with any particular issue on Wikipedia is not good. Things often don't work out the way you think they should and the process can be very frustrating. Best, always, to keep some distance. However, if you do feel that my RM close was improper, the correct venue is WP:RM/R. Before posting there, you need to attempt to resolve the issue with the closing admin which you have already done so that's not a problem at all. Just remember to post a note here as well as on the article talk page stating that you've requested a move review. --regentspark (comment) 23:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and no, I do not mind you advising me one bit. A new editor needs all the help he can get, and information has non-negative value by definition. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 00:27, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Rethinking done. This matter is closed as far as I am concerned. You may take it off your talk page if you prefer. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 22:37, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Just plain gob-smacked by this!
The above looks a bit convoluted, so perhaps it's best just not to step in it.

But I'm just plain gobsmacked by your closing. Just about everybody is against the current title, the couple who are for it have no basis - there are just no facts supporting the idea of a financial crisis after 2009. Any disagreement about the new title is really just about fine-tuning. Would you consider just sending this on to a different closer. There's nothing personal here or anything like that, I just think you got it absolutely wrong - everybody has a bad day. Smallbones (talk) 05:11, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I don't get it. Everyone, including you above and Yani in his latest statement on the article talk page, agrees that the crisis was not confined to 2008. Given that, it makes no sense to use a title that limits the crisis to that year. Am I missing something? --regentspark (comment) 14:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Like many things in life there are no official beginnings or ends to these things. For financial crises you can say that there are "runups," "the main event" and then it "tails off" (my terminology here). Every reliable source would put the "main event" as August through early October 2008, if it chose to divide up the matter.  The runup may have begun as early as October 2007.  The end of the tail, say March 2009.  So I'd be happy with "Financial crisis of October 2007 - March 2009" (except it's too long) "Financial crisis of 2007-2009" (which allows the greatest scope) or "Financial crisis of 2008".  Choosing between them is just a matter of judgement, which should be (and was) decided by consensus. Choice of whether to use "Global" or not is similar - almost all financial crises have been global since at least 1900, so it seems redundant to use it - but it's simply a matter of judgement.  do we want to stress the global aspect or not? A minor point that was decided by consensus.
 * What's not a matter of serious debate is that the financial crisis ended before 2010. There's no source in the article that says that the financial crisis extended after 2009.  As far as I know there's no reliable source anywhere that says this.  I've issued an open challenge on the talk page for a long time now asking people to come up with such a source.  BTW, can you find a reliable source that says the financial crisis extended past 2009?  Of course not!
 * So our title extending the financial crisis to 2012, at this point, is just intentionally misleading our readers. We know that it is not true.  It has to be changed.
 * So please just change the title in line with the consensus, or if you can't bring yourself to do that, just pass it along to a trusted colleague asking for a second opinion. Smallbones (talk) 19:35, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

WP:HOUND
I've been hounded by Darkness Shines at the Haqqani network article, where he reverted me and is adding false information. Please look into it. Thanks,  Mar4d  ( talk ) 00:56, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That article has been on my watchlist for ages, stop accusing me of hounding you all the fucking time. Anyone ca nlook at your recent contribution history Apart from India and SST This is the first article we have interacted on in your last 500 edits. Where is the hounding? Your constant accusations and blockshopping are getting on my tits, so stop it. Facts, not fiction (talk) 08:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I also do not appreciate your telling a blatant lie about my editing, I have added no information to that article at all. Did you learn nothing from you last failed attempt at this very accusation on ANI? Facts, not fiction (talk) 08:23, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we can AGF here and assume that DS is not hounding since this is his area of interest. I looked at the actual edits and I don't think an explicit citation is needed. From the text of the article, it seems reasonably clear that the group is lead by an Afghani family whose leaders have apparently been invited to join the Afghani government. Calling them an Afghan group seems reasonable. --regentspark (comment) 14:52, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. Perhaps you should explain that to the person who seems hell bent on changing the citizenship of the Haqqanis.  Mar4d  ( talk ) 15:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hopefully, he'll read this :) --regentspark (comment) 15:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have read it, and? Facts, not fiction (talk) 16:20, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Also if you are going to get involved in a content dispute you would do well to give a valid reason for removing a tag placed in good faith on an article Were is the rational on this page for that edit? Perhaps yourself and Mar4d would care to use the talk page, try this section which I started to discuss why the article is factually incorrect. Facts, not fiction (talk) 16:31, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Bún chả
Hi RegentsPark, I'm sorry but with the best will in the world, I believe that Talk:Bún chả should be reopened and relisted. This close is contrary to the "best such sources" and the opinions of those who contributed to the RM. It isn't so much the aspect of apparently rewarding one User for an undiscussed move and gamed redirect lock, it is more that this goes against the current practice on en.wp for diacritics and will only lead to the RM being redone anyway. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Your actions on 2007–2012 global financial crisis
You should really take as step back and look at your actions on 2007–2012 global financial crisis. Based on the voting chart, there was a clear consensus that the old article title was not adequate (10 to 2), and a 10 to 2 vote in favor of an alternative title. I know discussions like this are based on consensus and not vote counts, but it takes some cajones to pretend such a lop-sided vote isn't reflective of a consensus. You seem to think the two dissenters had better arguments, but your job is to interpret consensus not evaluate arguments. Most people provided cogent, reasoned arguments for their votes, which should be interpreted as consensus to move the article. Not only did you ignore this consensus, you closed the discussion. If you had any doubts about the clear consensus, you should have engaged in the discussion, not canned it. Several users have already complained about this to you, and your response is to put the discussion on hold. On hold for what? Worst of all you want us to dumb down our arguments and spoon feed them to you (Talk:2007–2012_global_financial_crisis). Apparently, we have to "leave the discussion of economic to academia." Sorry, economic terminology is relevant to this discussion. You can't dismiss it out of hand. The users who oppose the move seem to be confusing terms like "financial crisis" and "recession." Discussion of this is completely relevant and really gets at the disagreement over the article title (and why those in favor of the move have a strong point).

Failing to actually engage in these arguments, you seem to want us to simply provide sourced references using terminology. This is hard to do with recent events when no strong consensus has arisen on defining and naming recent events. Yet, unless we delete the article and wait ten years to cover the topic, we have to use some title. You can't demand that we provide citations that show a clear, RW consensus for a single term when there is no consensus. Moreover, you need to place the same burden on the current title. And, frankly, the "2007-2012 financial crisis" in the title is ridiculous, and no one has provided the kind of support for this title that you are demanding from us. Without other literature to grab article titles from, we are left with looking at things like the definition of the financial crisis, but you won't let the discussion go there.--Bkwillwm (talk) 17:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Bkwillwm and thank you for the rather long comment here. Do note that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It is not for us to debate the meaning of economic terms or interpret economic models, that is why the world has a large body of economists publishing articles in journals and elsewhere, particularly in peer reviewed outlets. None of the debates on our talk pages are whetted for accuracy through a peer review process. What we need to do is to use published sources as a guide for what goes into the encyclopedia. And, that is why I suggested that the discussion focus not on economics but rather on what the scope of the article should be and what published sources say. I hope you understand this because it is very important to do so if you wish to contribute meaningfully to the encyclopedia. I urge you, in particular, to look at our policy article no original research for further information. Warm regards. --regentspark (comment) 18:30, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the cordial tone of your reply, but I consider this an extremely rude response. You addressed none of my questions and responded to nothing I said. You're giving me a "Hi, new editor, you don't understand Wikipedia" response even though I'm a long established editor. It's very rude to refer a fellow established editor to the WP:NOR policy (How is it even relevant here? FWIW, it's own of the anti-move editors making appeals to GDP data).


 * I'll lay out what I think is going on here. You consider yourself a neutral party and judged that one side had a better argument so you shutdown the debate. Now you have a bunch of pissed off editors complaining, so you're going to swat them down by citing Wikipedia policies ("It's a discussion not a vote, so I can ignore the vote," "see WP:OR"). You think we're a bunch of non-neutral editors pushing some POV, but really we were engaged in a careful discussion about terminology and most editors were very open to compromise (I think you interpreted this good editing behavior as "a lack of consensus"). You do not seem to understand the issues here, yet made yourself the arbitrator of the discussion. This is why you have everyone riled up.--Bkwillwm (talk) 20:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Just reviewed the article's talk page. I actually came away from it thinking worse of your decision. The move opposers supply very few sources and the ones they do only support that there are continued economic problems (which no one is arguing against), they have zero supporting citations for a 2007-2012 dating. On the other hand, those who want a move have plenty of good sources for a 2008 or a 2007-2009 dating of the financial crisis. Some how our side gets slapped with an OR claim? Also, your justification was that it's better to have a 2007-2012 title to cover all the bases. This wasn't the argument put forth by other users. You weren't a neutral party. You didn't go with a consensus view. You came in and imposed your own view. You need to give up and move the page or recuse yourself from admin duties on this page.  --Bkwillwm (talk) 21:44, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * With apologies, this is absolute nonsense. The move discussion is on hold and I don't see what you're complaining about. If you're accusing me of bad faith in reopening the discussion, then you need to have more faith in Wikipedia. Now, I suggest you either discuss this on ANI or stop posting lengthy diatribes on my talk page. --regentspark (comment) 01:36, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Now isn't it nice when the opposition goes to the trouble of proving your point? &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 01:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ain't going to happen. Pride seems to be at stake. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 23:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought it would be better to deal with this outside of ANI. If you prefer to sort it out there, fine. I'm still complaining because the RM has not been reopened, you put it on "hold" without any explanation about what that means (please correct me if it's officially reponed somehow). I also don't think you should be involved as an admin on this article because you are not an impartial party (as per above, which you did not address). I think it would be best if you undid the closing of the RM and participated as an editor.--Bkwillwm (talk) 03:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:ANI is thattaway. You can explain your reasons for why you think I'm an involved party there. --regentspark (comment) 03:11, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * One more "diatribe" from me. Do you have any idea why we're upset? We put in our time and effort to make cogent arguments and find sources to sort out this matter. Then an admin comes along and says "It seems this way to me, so you're stuck with it guys." We were going through the official Wikipedia consensus process, then you stepped in and made your own decision.--Bkwillwm (talk) 03:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You are wasting your time, Bkwillwm, this has gone so far by now that it is almost time to ask RK to hand over the bit, not just revert. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 04:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

AN/I
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 18:56, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything? --regentspark (comment) 19:04, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * See it now. Thanks. --regentspark (comment) 19:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I lost connectivity. It's now there. I apologize for this but we really don't need to wait for Fred any longer. You need to move that page. &rarr;Yaniv256talkcontribs 19:23, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Favour
Can you please explain to this editor why that edit cannot stand, he seems quite insistent on reverting it in once a day. It violates WP:RS WP:PRIMARY and WP:UNDUE there is a consensus on the talk page that you cannot equate the actions of the rebels with the Pakistani army, yet he persists in reverting this crap in. I know he will not listen to me, perhaps he will listen to you. Facts, not fiction (talk) 10:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've watchlisted the page. --regentspark (comment) 12:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I forgot, it is also a linkvio. Facts, not fiction (talk) 14:57, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Move review for 2007–2012 global financial crisis
An editor has asked for a Move review of 2007–2012 global financial crisis. Because you closed the move discussion for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review. Bkwillwm (talk) 16:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to address the issue of my assuming "bad faith" that you raised at the above discussion. I think it's better suited here. I never thought you acted in bad faith (Although I understand why it would come across that way). I disagree with how you interpreted your role in determining "consensus." In my understanding, admins are not supposed to sit as judges in whats the "best." On top of that, you seem to have not fully understood the discussion (Still at a loss as to why OR applied to our side, but not the other. I think it is because you did not understand what the issue was, not because you were consciously biased.) Finally, you seemed to be making your own argument when you closed the discussion, which makes you a participant in the discussion and goes beyond your role as an admin interpreting consensus. I realize that the last point is subtle--and a reasonable person could disagree in this case, but I think you fell into the role of participant because you did not limit yourself to interpreting consensus.--Bkwillwm (talk) 06:15, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The reason I reopened the discussion was primarily to see if there was something I had missed or that I had called consensus incorrectly and it should be fairly obvious that when an admin reopens a discussion - ask yourself, how often does that happen :) - that that must be a genuine attempt to figure things out. I'm not a fan of long perennial move discussions and I was hoping that a short cut would work. Unfortunately, we're never going to see how that would have played out. Once again, I apologize again for any testiness on my part in my responses to you and I do believe, now, that your comments were made in good faith and were not meant to be disruptive. --regentspark (comment) 12:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 August 2012

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Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll
This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:57, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Donald Tsang
Can you clarify your stance on the RFC at Donald Tsang?

Specifically, following the RFC, I reworded the following text in the footnote referenced in the lead section:

"Tsang was knighted in June 1997 hours before the handover. As he was a Commonwealth citizen (specifically, British Dependent Territories Citizen) at the time, his membership in the Order of the British Empire is substantive and not honorary. A non-honorary recipient of a KBE is entitled to style himself 'Sir' before his name. However, Tsang does not use the title in official capacity as a preference ,."

to this (lead section text in regular font, footnote is small font):

"Tsang made a Knight of the British Empire in June 1997 hours before the handover and is entitled to be styled 'Sir Donald Tsang' though he does not use either the title 'Sir' or the postnominals 'KBE' in his capacity as a Hong Kong government official. Tsang was a Commonwealth citizen (specifically, British Dependent Territories Citizen) at the time his honour was conferred, so his membership in the Order of the British Empire is substantive and not honorary. Although an ordinary recipient of a KBE is entitled to style himself 'Sir' before his name, Tsang does not use the title in official capacity,."

User:Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington then deleted the words "and is entitled to be styled Sir Donald Tsang though he did not use either the title "Sir" or the postnominals "KBE" in his capacity as a Hong Kong government official." on the basis of your decision.

Unlike the stand-alone mention of the title in the lead sentence and infobox, this is an objective and referenced description of Tsang's status regarding the title, with quotations added for further objectivity, rather than a direct use of it perhaps contrary to his personal preferences. I don't see how this could be a potential BLP violation. I basically moved and reworded information that was previously in the footnote to text that is in front of the footnote. Unlike previous usage, this is clearly not a stand-alone mention as it both uses quotation marks and states in the same sentence that he does not use this title. What do you think? --Jiang (talk) 11:47, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Let me re-read the RfC and get back to you (on the article talk page itself). I have to run some errands in the morning so expect an answer later this afternoon (US east coast time). --regentspark (comment) 12:12, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Responded on that talk page. Short answer, In my opinion the RfC did not address the kind of wording you've proposed above. --regentspark (comment) 19:27, 26 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your prompt follow-up and response! --Jiang (talk) 05:42, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

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I would like to work together
Thank you for this edit on India. Some trimming was needed. However I have made slight changes to make the language clearer so as to avoid confusion. Do they look okay? If not let me know and we can reach some sort of a balance there. I hope it is okay. Cheers! Mrt 3366   (Talk page?)   14:22, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks fine. I've tweaked the language a bit. Do you have the source handy? I'm not sure if "existence" is the right term. If not, I can see if I can get hold of the source.--regentspark (comment) 15:51, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't have any of the four sources with me right now, but I will see I can do. By the way, your edit was fine but,
 * (including Islam, Christianity, andBuddhism)
 * I think you could add a space between ‘and’ & ‘Buddhism’ Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   16:48, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Good idea :) Thanks! --regentspark (comment) 16:53, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   16:56, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi regentspark, I need your opinion on this. As you already know, I added two / three images of mountains, cities, etc in India article. I explained most of the my major edits in my edit summaries. I also had added sourced content (which you pruned according to your best judgement, and I subsequently concurred with you), but now all of that is rashly removed due to an unexplained blanket revert performed by and that too without saying anything meaningful in the edit summary. Then when I asked to explain why in the talk page,  said nothing helpful except for, "that's the way it works here." There was nothing exceedingly controversial among the things I added. I was reverted again by . What is going on?  Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   13:27, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks like CMD reverted your edits because the images were causing a problem. My suggestion is that you propose new images (or replacements) on the talk page and wait for consensus. Images on the India article have been a contentious issue for a while and taking it slow is the only way to go. I briefly took a look at the images you added (hadn't noticed them before) and some of them seem good, so work at it one image at a time. --regentspark (comment) 14:33, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay, will do. But you should know he removed the well-sourced contents too and on top of that, as a corollary to my conversation with CMD, I would say, it was sort of revealed that (s)he didn't even bother to check the textual changes I brought in, before reverting each one of them in one stroke. I don't know what to call it. I will post the images on talk-page and what about the content. It's doubly hard for me to repeat all this. But I will try and please talk to CMD if you could. Mrt 3366   (Talk page?)   15:35, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Request for help
Due to Magogs opinionated last block I now have to put up with this bull All because this guy refuses to use the talk page over a source he does not like, which is an academic one BTW. I brought it to the RSN board here he continues with his attacks I am not the only editor yo have edited the article he is bitching about, and only he has an issue with this one source. Please advise me on how to seal with a guy who point blank refuses to talk? Facts, not fiction (talk) 13:59, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't have the time to look at the edits in detail but have dropped a note at RSN that you're not under a 1RR restriction. --regentspark (comment) 14:30, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I should like to be able to treat Darkness Shines as a good-faith editor following his having behaved like one. Darkness Shines is the one hunting up extreme-valued statistics and misrepresenting them, Mr. "up to 72%".

Talkback
Mrt 3366   (Talk page?)   07:54, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I support your comment there. This fowler guy is not behaving up to the standard. Your active involvement is sorely needed. India's society section is implicitly biased against Hinduism and censors the data about others. Please take an active part in the discussion, even if you happened to disagree with me on certain issues. Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   13:38, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

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The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)
Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page. In this issue: Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->
 * Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
 * Research: The most recent DR data
 * Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
 * Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
 * DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
 * Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
 * Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 19:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Opinion
What are your views on this removal of content? - highly acclaimed illustrated book with text India Unveiled, probably the only book ever published in the Western world to have been officially recognized by a Prime Minister of India, a book written by Robert Arnett categorized as "Hindu nationalist garbage" (without any discussion)? wow? This is by the way backed by another book "The Role of Native Culture and Language" according to which, Will Durant says, "India is the Motherland of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages." So I don't think it's entirely baseless, yet it was reverted.

In the caste in one of his edit summaries (check the edit) he wrote, "I'm sorry India remains "the" paradigmatic example" of caste system presumably.He also writes in Talk:India that "Caste, the social inequality deeply embedded in Hinduism now for over two thousand years, is the burden of Hinduism alone". Is he not the classic definition of anti-Hindu, anti-India or what? Check his contributions and you will hopefully see that there is a disingenuous agenda working here. Mrt 3366   (Talk page?)   14:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't need to check fowler's contributions to see that he is one of the best editors on Wikipedia and that he has a keen nose for what is or is not garbage. You're making a big mistake here. --regentspark (comment) 02:55, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "You're making a big mistake here" - by doing what exactly?
 * Just because he has been there for 4-5 years and has experience, it makes him "one of the best" there is? That may be your belief. But I tend to judge people by their actions not their age. I asked your opinion on the edit that he performed. Please answer me. Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   06:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm. That material looks dubious to me. While Fowler can be acerbic at times, he was right in removing it. Fowler has been here a long time and his actions speak for themselves - as a judger of actions you should be looking for a longer history rather than a shorter one. And, I hope you're not trying to stalk fowler's edits. I notice now that this is an old edit, something that was not added by you, and that you've been posting the same asking for opinion message on many user talk pages. Could be seen as borderline hounding and canvassing. I'm not saying it is but just pointing out how it could be perceived. --regentspark (comment) 15:17, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "dubious to me" - what do you mean? Anyway forget it. Since it's your judgement, it's okay.
 * "I hope you're not trying to stalk fowler's edits" - I am not aware of a policy pertaining to "stalking someone's edits", I am not trying to HOUND him, if that's what you are pointing to. "Could be seen as borderline hounding and canvassing." - You're right. I will refrain from doing so. Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   07:52, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Check out my new proposal (proposing minimal change). Mrt 3366   (Talk page?)   07:54, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment on the new look of the proposed template. Tell me how to make it more aesthetic. Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   15:52, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you watching this? Comment on the new look of the proposed template. Tell me how to make it more aesthetic. Mrt  3366   (Talk page?)   17:29, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Mrt 3366   (Talk page?)   09:36, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Noted. --regentspark (comment) 13:13, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute in which you may have been involved. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we request your participation in the discussion to help find a resolution. The thread is "Talk:India". Thank you! EarwigBot   operator  /  talk 09:35, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment here man. Since you're the one who keeps on reverting me. That will be conducive for both of us. Mrt 3366  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 11:59, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Request for help
Could you please take a look at Talk:Yoga. had added a maintenance templates to the article on Yoga back in June 2012. I have since worked on this article to bring it back to the level where it can justify its GA status. After making improvements the the article I removed the maintenance templates. Among the templates I removed was an inadequate lead template which I removed after expanding the lead. Yoga Mat is now back and is behaving in a strange manner. First they added Essay-like section and Lead section templates in middle of the lead. Then they overwrote their own comment in the talk page. Their comments were vague at best, at which point I asked for clarification and reverted their edits. They reverted me back and continued with a series of vague posts on the article talk page. I am not going to revert them again, but I am out of ideas at this point. Any suggestions and help will be welcome. Thanks. Correct Knowledge «৳alk»  17:05, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Commented. And added to watchlist. --regentspark (comment) 18:47, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking a look at the talk page. 's previous comments on the talk page have been extremely helpful. I've kept some of them in mind while writing the lead. I'll wait for another day or two before removing the lead section tag to see if they want to clarify their comments. Correct Knowledge  «৳alk»  08:36, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries. Giving Yoga Mat the chance to express his concerns is a good idea. --regentspark (comment) 12:41, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Mrt 3366 (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 14:14, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Nominations of images for the cities template
Why did you started this in India article's talk page. This should ideally be done at the template's talk page. -- Anbu121 ( talk me ) 14:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. I started it because people were already proposing images here. But, one reason to keep it here is that the India page is more trafficked. I'll drop a note on the template talk page but do add a note in the discussion section and we can move the entire discussion to the template talk page if that's the consensus. --regentspark (comment) 14:42, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Anbu here, let's move the discussion to template talk page. As it is, the template is a tentative arrangement. Arguing and voting on both cityscapes and images for econonomy section will create a lot of confusion. Correct Knowledge  «৳alk»  18:30, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's just leave it here. The template is for transclusion in the India article and that's where the discussion is the most appropriate. --regentspark (comment) 19:05, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic. Thank you. Shadowjams (talk) 19:06, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 September 2012

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help
sir, i'd like to being to your attention:. the subject of the article has recently been sentenced, and i have appropriately added a criminal infobox. kindlt review the other editor's edits. also please note some other biased edits from that guy. 117.216.155.149 (talk) 13:40, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Dropped a note on the editor's talk page and am watching the article. BTW, there is a discrepancy in the sources relating to the number of years in the sentence (one says 28, the other 18). --regentspark (comment) 14:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * reuters and indian express both agree on 28, so i think that's the right one. thanks. 117.216.155.149 (talk) 14:24, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Rollback
From what I gather he used (TW) to put some quite long edit summaries on the reversion of an article during the course of an edit war. There was no use of rollback. The length of the edit summary just about exceeds the character limit and he used at least one wikilink to relevant policy pages so there was no indirect abuse either. A tendentious editor maybe, but Admins need to be seen to be fair at all times. I respect the Admin. in the case, he recently dealt swiftly with a gratuitous, explicit attack about me. I just think they are wrong in the handling of this particular case. Leaky Caldron  17:23, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If he didn't actually use rollback then I agree that the penalty definitely doesn't fit (even if he had, I'd have warned first). I guess it's resolved adequately anyway. Thanks for the explanation. --regentspark (comment) 17:32, 11 September 2012 (UTC)