User talk:Renamed user df576567etesddf/Archive 18

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, Cliftonian! I have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on or by typing helpme at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or place helpme on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!  Genius  101 Guestbook  14:02, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
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Thanks for your support

 * no problem at all. Good luck Peacemaker! :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  19:13, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 February 2016

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Michael Hordern
Hello Cliftonian, well it's been a hard slog, but the PR went off with a bang and I finally completed it t'other day. I have listed it at FAC here, should you have any comments. Hope you're well.  Cassianto Talk   17:45, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much Cassinato, a very nice read about a chap I'd known little about. All okay here, hope you're doing well too. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  17:52, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Great to see how satisfied you are and how much you enjoyed it. Hordern was a very underrated actor, although he was hugely popular among Shakespearean circles.  Just one query; which neck of the woods would that be?   Cassianto Talk   17:56, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, I lived and worked just up the road from Hordern's birthplace of Berkhamsted in my teens, and I now work in Stevenage—as did Hordern, I learned today. And there's a mention of him writing a report for a paper just up the road in Welwyn. (One of the consequences of having moved around so much during my formative years is that I can plausibly claim many necks of the woods as my own. I also used to live in west London, as Hordern did, but I don't think that really counts as it's so big.) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  18:09, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * How interesting. Yes, he certainly got about; Brighton was another residence. I took a trip down there as part of my research and had the pleasure of a guided tour of the Hordern Room, as well as the rest of the college.  It also emerged during the draft that he rented flats at Marble Arch, Belgravia, and then Hampstead, something which a jobbing actor today can only dream of.  I used to live in the same village as Holst which was a joy, but now, rather unfortunately, reside in the same village as someone rather less talented.  I'm left wondering where it all went wrong!    Cassianto Talk   18:59, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, I remember Chigwell. We used to play your lot at football at school. Seem to recall that we usually lost... —   Cliftonian   (talk)  19:06, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Naturally, how brave of you to own up to it! Did you play at Chigwell Hall? That's where I spent most of my sporting youth. I was to go back there years later (per work reasons) and the old place hasn't changed much.    Cassianto Talk   19:15, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Is that where Chigwell School play? If so, then probably. I think so. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  19:23, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's right. It's up the road to The King's Head, a public house which can count Dickens among it's former patrons.  In terms of playing football there, all I can remember are the ghastly showers which had weeds growing up through the floor tiles and exposed wires in the changing rooms.  Mr Fincham, the groundsman, was also a cousin to Len Clark, and boy didn't he tell us!   Cassianto Talk   20:38, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it was at Chigwell where after the game they gave us a meal and they had written up on a board "chipped potatoes" rather than chips. While we were queueing up I kept on repeating "chipped potatoes" in a plummy voice and laughing, and eventually the chap serving the food yelled at me: "Here, you got a problem? You'll eat what you're given." I think he'd rather misunderstood what I was getting at. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  21:11, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 February 2016
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Help sought
Hi Cliftonian. Thanks, once again, for your sterling GA review on the Royal Question. It's much appreciated as always! My next project is (and has been for some time now) to re-write the nasty stub on Atrocities in the Congo Free State which currently has neither balance nor context and contains some major factual inaccuracies. Anyway, my attempts so far can be found in my sandbox though I stress, again, that it is not finished yet.

Given the difficult nature of such a topic, I was wondering if I could get your feedback before it's launched onto the main-space? I'd be very grateful for any comments. I am hoping that it will be put up for GA nomination in due course. All best, —Brigade Piron (talk) 23:50, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'm rather busy this weekend but I'll try to find the time. Looking forward to it. Incidentally I have a couple articles up at GAN myself: I don't know if either of them looks interesting to you, but just thought I'd mention it. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  06:40, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Time for a PR?
Hi Cliftonian, I hope all is well with you. Could I ask for a favour, if you have time or inclination? I have the Siege of Sidney Street at PR. If you are able to take a look over and pass comments, I'd be very grateful, but no problem if you are otherwise engaged. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:17, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks very interesting—I'll try to find the time. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  13:47, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Cliftonian, I hope all is well. I have closed the PR for the Siege of Sidney Street as I've now moved this on to FAC. Should you have the time and inclination to comment on this I'd be much obliged, but there's no problem if you're too snowed under with other commitments. Cheers. – SchroCat (talk) 16:52, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll try. Sorry to have let you down so far. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  17:21, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * oh no, you've not let me down at all! I was just being impatient in going to FAC - mea culpa entirely. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 11:54, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 February 2016

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Cecil Rhodes
Hi Cliftonian. As you know, I'm trying to correct citations with missing page numbers in the Cecil Rhodes article. Are you able to provide the page numbers for citations you used for your edits? For example, on 17 January 2016? Thanks. Mitchumch (talk) 11:09, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi ]Mitchumch, thanks for the note. That's a will, not a book, so I'm not sure page numbers are needed. But if they are, I'm afraid I don't have a copy of it to hand in any case, I'm on my mobile and about to go on a plane, so I'm not really in a position to look it up online at the minute. I'm sure if you looked on archive.org or something you could easily find a scanned version of Rhodes's will there. Hope this helps, cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  11:49, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Rhodesian mission in Lisbon
Hello Cliftonian. Recently I've taken a look on Rhodesian mission in Lisbon, one of your FAs, and I have something to ask about it. After all, thanks for your efforts on this featured article.--Howard61313 (talk) 10:32, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There's a section called "Portugal's role in Rhodesian sanction-busting", I wonder if there is any resources talking about the Rhodesian Mission's role in the event?
 * Some of the notes and references have become dead links (such as ). Is it possible to reach the original contents? I can't find their web archives.
 * Hi Howard, thanks for the note—I wasn't able to find much on the mission's specific role in sanction-busting at the time but I'll have another look. Re: the dead links it seems Tribune has been dead for a year or so, I'll redraw things with a different ref. Cheers and hope you're well, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  10:47, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Mortara case
Pray ignore that bot message. I came, I saw, I promoted. Job done. A fascinating article. Ping me pre-FAC please.  Tim riley  talk    15:12, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much Tim. I have implemented the additional comments you made. Indeed the Spectator article says "cruelest" (have just checked again to be sure...). I'm glad you liked the article and will be nominating for FAC in a few minutes—I'll drop you a note to let you know. Thanks and hope you're well, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  19:24, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

George Bernard Shaw
Can we, I wonder, interest you in GBS? Brianboulton and I have been working on his article over the past weeks (it feels like decades!) and have now got it up for peer review. If you have time and disposition to wade in, we shall be very glad of your comments.  Tim riley  talk    15:47, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note Tim—I shall try to find a few minutes to look in. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:49, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Gregor MacGregor
Could I interest you in Gregor MacGregor as an April 1 TFAR? - Dank (push to talk) 16:32, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes, I saw Nick's post about that. Yes, I think that would be great. I'll write up an April 1-style blurb this evening. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  16:32, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not a funny article, so I think a funny blurb would be out of place ... but a blurb that focuses on the hoax would be great. - Dank (push to talk) 16:42, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Today's featured article/requests/Gregor MacGregor —  Cliftonian   (talk)  16:47, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Patrick McGoohan
The proper idiomatic expressiom here is "American by birth"; no one says "American by birthplace". BMK (talk) 17:07, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * That may be, but "American by birth" could mean one was born a citizen by virtue of having at least one American parent. I don't really care about it that much, let's just take the wording in question out and have it explained in the body of the article. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  17:15, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 February 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016
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Mortara
Hi, John, I'm sorry I have been unable to get to the Mortara FAC, but I am rather overwhelmed at present. Mortara has, it seems, been received with considerable enthusiasm and I'm sure it's on its way to a well-deserved promotion without my input. If it's still there later in the week, and I can find an hour or two, I'll try to read it and leave a few comments. Brianboulton (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Brian, thanks for the note. Of course I understand as I am in a similar boat myself. This is going to sound terribly arrogant but the candidacy does seem well on the way, so please don't worry about taking your time. Thanks and I hope you're well and having a nice weekend. All the best, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  17:27, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Congratulations on the FA Cliftonian! Aymatth2 kindly created the article I requested on Michele Viale-Prelà to clear a red link.♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:40, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much good doctor! Yes, I saw that, and very good the Viale-Prelà article looks too, a good complement to the Mortara one. I'm glad you enjoyed the article so much and thank you again for your support and extremely kind words at the FAC. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  11:48, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 March 2016
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שונאים אותך בכל העולם קליפטוניאן ההומו
אין לך חיים הא? תתאבד כבר תעשה טובה להורים שלך ותהרוג את עצמך כל היום 24/7 על ויקיפדיה עורך ערכים מה קרה ישראלים הביאו לך כאפות יא ילד מסכן יא מושפל חחחחחחחחח תתאבד תהרוג את עצמך אין לך חברים כולם שונאים אותך המשפחה שלך שונאת אותך תשים קץ לחיים שלך קח אקדח ותירה לעצמך בראש אף אחד לא אוהב אותך אף אחד לא אהב אות כולם צוחקים עלייך אל תחזור לישראל אף אחד לא רוצה שתהיה פה יא חתיכת יצור אובססיבי מסריח כל מי שרואה אותך נגעל ילדים קטנים מפחדים ממך וכל הבנות גם בישראל וגם מהמדינה שלך חושבות שאתה יצור מכוער ילד כאפות מסריח אמן מחבל ידקור יזיין את אמא שלך ויכניס אותה להריון ויצא לך אח מחבל ערבי שכל היום ירביץ לך יא קוקסינל מסריח איך אתה 24/7 שעות על ויקיפדיה איך? אין לך חיים? חחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחחח 109.64.100.131 (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2016 (UTC)


 * מה זה השטויות האלה לעזאזל? אני נתתי שנתיים מהחיים שלי לעזור למדינה שלך ולהגן עליך ועל משפחתך. אני מקווה שאתה לא תשכח את מה שכתבת עלי פה. יום טוב לך אדוני. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  22:20, 12 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Postscript: when blocked for the above personal attacks, which also extended to putting pictures of Hitler at the top of this page, the IP posted repeated iterations of my photograph on his talk page with a obscene caption about my wife that I won't repeat here. He was promptly blocked from editing his own talk page. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  22:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Post-postscript: the IP 2606:6000:FD07:E900:F9D7:9122:6FBC:5154 vandalised my user page about a day later, calling me "leftist Kapo vermin" in an edit summary. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  14:09, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 March 2016

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Another PR request
Hi Cliftonian, I have another article up at PR, should you have the time and inclination. This is the Senghenydd colliery disaster, a sad episode of some corporate mismanagement which led to the deaths of 339 miners and one rescue worker. All shocking stuff, and the event is still the worst mining disaster in the UK. If you could pop in to the PR at some point to comment, I'd be delighted to hear from you. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 14:10, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Gavin, great to hear from you. Looks extremely interesting, if a little shocking as you say. I'll try to find the time to look in. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  14:11, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 March 2016
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 * I am taking one last run at getting Emily Ratajkowski promoted to WP:FA in time for a 25th birthday WP:TFA on June 7th. Featured article candidates/Emily Ratajkowski/archive3 needs discussants. Since you have made at least 10 edits to the article, I am hoping you might give some comments.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:58, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/Emily Ratajkowski/archive3
I am taking one last run at getting Emily Ratajkowski promoted to WP:FA in time for a 25th birthday WP:TFA on June 7th. Featured article candidates/Emily Ratajkowski/archive3 needs discussants. Since you have made at least a half dozen edits to the article's talk page, I am hoping you might give some comments.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:02, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXX, March 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:15, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 March 2016
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Phoenix club
Just because you want to believe something doesn't make it true, especially considering that what was known as Wimbledon FC clearly still exists. This means there were no ashes from which to rise. The same general thinking applies to the rather self-indulgent FC United of Manchester. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.205.182.199 (talk) 19:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi there, please see Verifiability, not truth for an explanation of Wikipedia's inclusion criteria. I await your explanation as to how I am a "'vested interest' contributor" as you allege in your edit summary here. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  19:14, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The source specifically describes the club as a phoenix club, therefore it is right that it is included in a list of phoenix clubs. I really don't see how there can be discussion around this. Fenix down (talk) 20:16, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

BBC -- Cazique of Poyais
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160127-the-conman-who-pulled-off-historys-most-audacious-scam

Maybe you should delete that anti-Israel stuff above. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to remove spam / crap from your talk page.

Singora (talk) 07:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Singora, hope you're well. I have had a few people link me to that article, which rather transparently used the one I wrote as a base, but I suppose imitation is a form of flattery. The crap in Hebrew above was not posted by me but by someone else (an Israeli who has a few issues with me, it seems). I'd rather leave it there for people to see. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  07:30, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Senghenydd
Hi Cliftonian, Thank you once again for all your comments on the Senghenydd colliery disaster. This is now at FAC, should you wish to comment further. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 12:12, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gavin, I will try to find the time. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  12:21, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Cheers!
Cheers for the featured article today. It must have been a challenge!--DThomsen8 (talk) 13:36, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Cheers! It wasn't easy. I'm happy to see you are a Lafayette alum—my own brother is as well. Cheers and have a great weekend :) —   Cliftonian   (talk)  14:28, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Four months of work. It's an epic. Staggering. Well done. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:30, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much Tagishsimon, very much appreciated. :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  07:59, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 April 2016
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Your GA nomination of William Harper (Rhodesian politician)
The article William Harper (Rhodesian politician) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:William Harper (Rhodesian politician) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Coemgenus -- Coemgenus (talk) 21:01, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Today's featured article/April 28, 2016
Brian and JP, Chris has scheduled this one for the 28th. I really enjoyed this one at FAC, btw. - Dank (push to talk) 02:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note Dan; I'll be over when I have some time. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  05:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This is really hard ... I'm very tempted to ask for a longer TFA column than usual to do it justice. - Dank (push to talk) 09:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you guys mind if I do that? This is the first TFA I've had in a long time where I just don't think I can write a coherent summary in less than 1200 characters. - Dank (push to talk) 09:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Amazing, I'm down to 1303. That's over the limit, but not so much that I need to ask permission, I think. Thoughts on my progress? - Dank (push to talk) 10:22, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I kept squeezing, down to 1196. Does that work? - Dank (push to talk) 10:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks good to me on first glance, I'll tweak it if I spot anything. Cheers and I hope you're well, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  18:52, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure, feel free. My stomach still needs to heal up from an H. pylori infection, but as far as I can tell, everything's back to normal. - Dank (push to talk) 19:28, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Harper
Forgive me for sitting this one out. I've just embarked on a Wikibreak for a month or two. Good luck with the FAC: knowing your record at FAC I don't think my clutch of comments will be much missed. Best wishes, as ever,  Tim riley  talk    19:49, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Tim, no problem at all—thank you for sending me a note to explain, I don't mind at all. Enjoy the break and I look forward to seeing you back. All the very best, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  18:51, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 April 2016
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South African English
Howzit Clift,

As you're well aware the relevant style guide places the Rhodesia article in the sphere of South African English, and for a while now we've been having to correct people who mistake the predominantly UK spellings for errors. However, there's now a contributor who claims to have been a writer in RSA for "30 years" that would beg to differ, suggesting that South Africa favours the American "ze" (organize, colonize, civilize, recognize) instead.

This seems rather dubious, as to my knowledge the Saffies follow Commonwealth rules, and when I grew up in Malaysia we were taught the "se" spellings same as the other Commonwealth states. Surely I'm not mistaken? -- Katan gais (talk) 18:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Katangais, certainly in Zim so far as I know -ise is favoured, but I have never worked in South Africa so I feel unqualified to make a sweeping judgement about usage there based on my own personal experience.


 * Anyway: a look through sources on Google Books brings up this South African style guide from 1996, which is only available to me on snippet view but on this topic seems to conclude on page 160 that "as most -ize words can also be spelt -ise, the use of the suffix -ise is possibly the safest option". It also says on page 324 that there is no general agreement on this "as even the major publishers differ". I also found this, from 1982, which says "Indian, South African and Australian usage favors -ise". The website Grammarist says here (in a response to a comment) that "We get our data mainly from news publications that publish online (and some blogs), and based on these sources, 'organise' is favored over 'organize' by a huge margin in the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa." Hope this helps. Cheers, —   Cliftonian   (talk)  06:54, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Time for the toons...
Hi Cliftonian, I have recently been working on Walt Disney, which is now up for PR. Any thoughts or comments on his huge figure would be much appreciated. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 11:41, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Gavin, great, will try to find the time to look in. Watched The Sword in the Stone with my son and daughter this morning, which we all enjoyed. Hope you're well —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:11, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 April 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016
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The Signpost: 2 May 2016
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The Signpost: 17 May 2016
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Ramsey
Hey dude, can we reinvigorate the Ramsey push? I have a few days to spare while I'm on paternity leave so I might well be able to help a bit more than I have. Even taking it to FAC for review and criticism may be helpful? The Rambling Man (talk) 08:48, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Urgh, sorry matey, I really have been meaning to, I actually bought about half a dozen books for it and have them by my desk at home, but I've just been so so busy recently I haven't been able to really get my teeth into it. We have the bank holiday weekend coming up so I will make an especial effort to crack on with it then—depending on how that goes perhaps we could look at going straight to FAC afterwards. (Oh, and congratulations on the new little Rambling Man!) Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  08:55, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Cheers, and no worries. Let me know when you're back in the game!  The Rambling Man (talk) 09:03, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll leave you to it; sorry, I had no idea you and TRM were in the middle of a revamp until I looked at the history.  Cassianto <sup style="font-family:Papyrus;">Talk   20:10, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * No problem, cheers for lending a hand :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  07:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 May 2016
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Today's featured article/June 21, 2016
Hi JP, this one is coming up later this month. The TFA text mostly follows the lead section; how does it look? - Dank (push to talk) 01:39, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, looks good on first glance - good job. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  06:21, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:16, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 June 2016
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Air Rhodesia flight 825
Hello New to wikipedia so wasn't sure how to 'correct' something in an article. Wanted to correct your statement that BBC TV broke the news of the plane's shooting down. It was BBC radio (the Today Programme) which went out the same morning. I was one of the BBC staff working on Today that night.

The details of what happened re. the interview and the 'laugh' are below.

The facts are that the story broke with a radio interview - not television - with Nkomo on the BBC’s Today programme. The interview was obtained by a reporter, Tony Wilkinson who put it to Nkomo that his forces had shot down the plane.To his surprise, Nkomo – still upset by being left out of the “peace” talks in London by Mugabe - admitted this. Wilkinson, surprised by his 3am (London time) scoop, then tried to play back the tape to his editor, Alan Ashton. There was nothing on it – the sound recordist had had finger trouble! So the programme then rang Nkomo again and with some difficulty got through to him, Wilkinson explained what had happened so could they do the interview again. They did and when the got to the important point of did his men shoot down the plane, Nkomo chuckled because he had earlier admitted this. The interview went on air and Julian Amery, a Conservative MP, raised the matter in the Commons pointing out  Nkomo’s laugh showing  his callousness at the loss of life. The real reason for his laughter has been a secret  known to only  a few BBC staff  although the story is recounted in the preface to the paper back version of Paul Donovan’s book – All Our Todays.

Many thanks Badger AAABadgerAA (talk) 07:17, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi BadgerAA, Thanks for writing. My intention was not to stop you from being credited, as it were. It is just that Wikipedia needs to have these things confirmed in reliable sources, and as it stood I couldn't see that confirmation. I don't have the book All Our Todays. I'm presuming the version I looked up online was the hardback version and that this is why the anecdote doesn’t appear there.


 * Do you think you could let me know the ISBN number of the paperback version this appears in, and the page number(s) on which the relevant information appears in the preface? Then I can put the proper citation together and put the right information in.


 * All the best, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  08:38, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:05, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Adolf Eichmann - Time and date of death
Hi Cliftonian! Today I visited the Adolf Eichmann to look up some information and stumbled over a problem concerning the date of his death. Looking at the discussion I realized that the problem exists for some more time and since you were the last one in the discussion who tried to solve the problem I decided to write here and not on the discussion page. Right now relevant part of the article reads: English is, as you've probably already guessed, not my native language. But from my point of view the quote lacks logic. Somebody who was hanged "shortly after midnight on 31 May" couldn't have possibly be informed of anything at "8:00 PM on 31 May". The edit you did ("The execution, prepared to take place at midnight at the end of 31 May, was slightly delayed; Eichmann thus died a few minutes into 1 June") tried to make things better but apparently somebody didn't liked it 'cause it was removed later. My choice would be something along the lines of I think it would be a good idea if somebody would resolve the problem. If you - for whatever reason want to talk, I'll revisit this page in the next days.

Kind regards, Jan 46.113.1.1 (talk) 21:25, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Jan, sorry to have taken a few days. I'll review this soon. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  22:05, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed now, cheers. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  18:31, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 June 2016
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Daniel Kawczynski
Your reference doesn't support "Kawczynski came to England as a six-year-old with his Polish mother and his stepfather". Xx236 (talk) 10:23, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, fixed, he was actually seven. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  11:14, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 July 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016
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The Signpost: 21 July 2016
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The Signpost: 04 August 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016
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Code for Navbar.
Hey I was wondering if you could give me the code for your navbar, as I would like to have one like it. Iazyges (talk) 04:13, 11 August 2016 (UTC)


 * No problem - it's at User:Cliftonian/navbar. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  12:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

The Great Betrayal
Howzit Clift,

If you still own a copy of Ian Smith's memoirs, The Great Betrayal, would you be good enough to confirm which page contains the following quote? It reads, word for word:

"As our prime minister after the last world war, Sir Godfrey Huggins (later Lord Malvern) had told us 'We have proved ourselves, and our record is such that the British government has told me that Rhodesia can have its independence whenever they wish - it is there for the asking'.

Well - we had certainly asked for it time and time again, not only the Rhodesian Front, but previous governments as well."

My copy had it located under Chapter 18: The Interim Government of 1978-79. It should appear before Smith mentions Dupont's state funeral. Any assistance you could lend me in this regard would be much appreciated, as I cannot recollect the exact page number and the book in question has been inexplicably missing from my shelf for over a year.

Thanks! -- Katan gais (talk) 07:30, 14 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Katangais, yes I still have my copy of The Great Betrayal. It's on pages 255 and 256 of the 1997 first edition. Hope this helps, cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  12:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Today's featured article/September 3, 2016
Hi JP, here's another one of yours at TFA, I'm working on the TFA text now. - Dank (push to talk) 19:27, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, cheers Dan —  Cliftonian   (talk)  16:49, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for "One of the ugliest episodes of the Rhodesian Bush War"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:34, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 August 2016
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FAC mentoring scheme
You may have noticed discussions on the WP:FAC talkpage relating to various  FAC issues, including the question of mentoring for first-time FAC nominators. At present only a very small percentage of the first-time noms get promoted; this can be very discouraging, and might well be turning editors away from FAC. In discussion with the FAC coordinators, Mike Christie and I have devised a simple, voluntary mentoring scheme for first-time nominators, the details of which can be found here (it hasn't gone live yet).

We hope that, as they become aware of the scheme, first-time nominators will take advantage of it. A link to the mentoring page will be included in the FAC instructions once we go live. But of course, we need mentors. We would like the scheme to kick off with a dozen or so names listed, hoping that many more will sign up eventually. Would you be prepared to act as a mentor? You incur no obligation by adding your name to the list; the extent to which you participate in the scheme is entirely a matter for you, and can vary from regular involvement to just once in a while. The objective of the scheme is to help first-time nominators who seek assistance. So please add your name here if you feel you can, or if you have queries or reservations about the scheme, please drop me a line. Brianboulton (talk) 12:38, 21 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Brian, thanks for this: not sure I have the time but I'll add my name if that changes. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  18:59, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Paul Kruger
In Paul Kruger there is the phrase "and an adept in". Not sure if this has to be "and adept in" or "and an adept __ in" as I don't have access to the source. JMK (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * On my phone now: I'm fairly sure from memory that is correct and just an example of old-fashioned English, but I'll check when I have the chance. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  20:18, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Not even old-fashioned (M-W definition) - just not frequently used. Robevans123 (talk) 13:11, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Will add a note in the source page clarifying that it is a noun, in case someone else is also confused by it. JMK (talk) 21:09, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Two low life bastards now at PR
No, not me and, but Burke and Hare, an article that will no doubt be our last for the project. Any comments, greatly received.  Cassianto <sup style="font-family:Papyrus;">Talk   12:23, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 September 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXV, September 2016
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Qasr al Yahud
I added the Tourism in Israel category because it fits into that category, same as how it fits into Tourism in State of Palestine. If you include the latter, it would be NPOV to not include the former. The Israelis administer the site, therefore it belongs in that category, moreso than it belongs in the Palestine category. Sir Joseph <sup style="color:green;">(talk) 15:09, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Israelis administer the site, yes, but that doesn't make it in Israel, now, does it? —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think for category reasons, it is fine. If you're looking at a category of Tourism in Israel, that should show up. And what about the Palestine category? It's not in the State of Palestine, so why is it in the cat for it? Sir Joseph <sup style="color:green;">(talk) 15:24, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a real tricky area to straddle in NPOV terms, but more to the point not even Israel claims this is within its territory, so I think even for categorisation we can't really put it into an "in Israel" category. A better solution might be for it to go into a category called "Tourism in the West Bank" or whatever, since while it is within the borders claimed by the State of Palestine, the State of Palestine doesn't really have much practical control over it. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * That might be an option, or how about Israeli Tourism? Regardless, I think the WB Tourism might work as well.
 * That would not imply that it's in Israel, but that it is administered or run by Israelis. I didn't remove the Palestine cat, but as you say, it doesn't make sense to have that in there.
 * In any event, feel free to comment at AE if you agree with me that the AE request should be closed now that there is a neutral wording. I don't need to have people blocked or banned, that's not why I'm here, that is other people's job. Sir Joseph <sup style="color:green;">(talk) 16:12, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree the wording in the article itself is the main thing really. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  16:33, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, I added it to Tourism in the WB. Sir Joseph <sup style="color:green;">(talk) 17:37, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Your revert at Israel
Your last edit to Israel violated the one revert restriction that applies to the article. Please self-revert (undo your last edit) to avoid the possibility of sanctions. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 10:39, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
 * OK. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  10:58, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Fred Allen
Hello, and thanks for the note. Hope all is well with you too. I do remember the exchange: I still have a gift, for want of a better word, for an unintended sarcastic tone of writing... I'm afraid I don't have any images of Mr Allen or any team photos from that era. Best I can offer is a book description of him as a rather fragile forward. The chap in your pictures does look a bit thin and delicate, but that might just be the blonde hair and clean-shaven face. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. That description does seem to me to chime well with the chap in the photos, but I think on reflection it might be best if I reword in such a way that it isn't stated with absolute definition that this is the same player, as I recall you pointed out at the time it is a very common name. If we do come across something down the line when we can sort it out then. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  13:14, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Your preferences
Hi. I find your theorizing that "Wallachian-born" and/or "Moldavian-born" cannot be used to mean "born as a Wallachian/Moldavian national", but only "born in the region of etc." remarkably frail, and your constant preference that we should use "Wallachian, later Romanian" or such very pretentious and not very productive. Now, of course, they're not improvements, but neither are they a big deal to anyone but yourself -- so have it your way if that's what gets us moving on. Though please note: I do not enjoy being stalked, not having to find that a sequence of my edits was changed systematically without so much as asking me why I edited them that way; it wastes my time, and it's time I would rather use to create meaningful content. Dahn (talk) 13:37, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, for instance reducing "Moldavian-born Romanian" to "Romanian" in reference to Ion Creangă is cutting out about half of his life, particularly in an article that deals specifically with his birth -- since he was born when Romania did not exist at all. This is more or less like calling Shakespeare British; appropriate on some level, perhaps, but inexact when it would cost us nothing to be exact. Dahn (talk) 13:43, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Dahn, thanks for writing. I take your point, but "Moldavian-born Romanian" or "Wallachian-born Romanian" to me seems equivalent to calling people whose lives straddle the Acts of Union "Scottish-born British" or "English-born British"—it just looks strange to me. I agree with you it's better to be exact rather than inexact, and that's precisely why I think it is better to be clearer what we mean—it is very common on Wikipedia and elsewhere to see "Russian-born" or "Hungarian-born" used incorrectly in a personal description to refer to the birthplace, rather than to the birth nationality as you mean it.
 * I'm sorry, but I am totally mystified by your accusation of "stalking". I can only think you are referring to the changes made along these lines using WP:AutoWikiBrowser. These were made using a tool to find the particular wording I was looking to change across a large number of articles, not by somehow raking through edits you have made in particular or "stalking" you in any way I can think of. I apologise if anything I have done has come across that way, but equally I really am not very happy to have an accusation like this made against me—I don't think either of us wants to waste time with this but at the same time I really don't think I can just let the accusation stand, sorry. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  14:38, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, I am looking through my recent edits and it seems like you happened to fall on my recent and somewhat recent additions to several articles. Which would be okay, all in all, but if you planned on making systematic changes that (happen to) go after my additions, you could at least have approached me and asked me I wrote them that way. I am more than responsive, though as a rule I dislike quibbling over such details.
 * Technically, there would be nothing wrong with doing just that for people born on the Acts of Union saddle, though it would perhaps be more confusing: both England and Scotland continue(d) to exist as such, whether Moldavia and Wallachia, at least from 1866, where entirely absorbed into a centralized state, and divided into counties that remained the only relevant forms of local government (some such county straddle old regional borders, and this was done on purpose). So while it does it resemble your analogy, it actually refers two very distinct sets of political entities. So, if I were to insist on the point, I would have to say that I still believe the "X-born" version is significantly better. Whether that changes your mind or not. Dahn (talk) 14:53, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Dahn, I did click on one of these articles which appeared on DYK on the main page yesterday—I did not look at who had edited it—and my chain of edits came after that. So I think this must be where my edits and yours coincide; that and the fact that you edit a lot of articles in this field, so naturally a lot of the ones I edited here were ones you had edited previously. That was not something that occurred to me, though, for me this was purely a content issue rather than one between editors.
 * I regret that you don't see fit to withdraw the "stalking" accusation, which is unjustified and could be perceived as a personal attack. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:16, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Fine, I withdraw it. Now, for my other point? Dahn (talk) 15:19, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I appreciate that.
 * Moving on: Per WP:OPENPARA, "previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability". The point should be whether the previous nationality of "Wallachian" or "Moldavian" or "Transylvanian" or whatever is actually relevant to the subject's notability in each case, as opposed to something simply noted in the opening sentence because the person in question happened to be born before those places merged into Romania. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:31, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * And my contention is that they are. Yet you seem to suggest the same, when you go for "Wallachian, later Romanian". So the relevancy of that tidbit should not be something under dispute, or else you would have removed altogether (and you should not: certainly not for those who spent half their lives in a country that was not Romania -- Ion Creangă was a Moldavian separatist, Vasile Pogor actually worked for the Moldavian state etc.). But then you inconsistently remove that part from, say, 1906 in literature, where you suggest it is not important. I struggle with that, because it seems capricious; and, yes, there is a problem with capricious, when we could simply be consistent and objective. Dahn (talk) 15:44, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Transylvanian, btw, is not a nationality under any definition, or at least was not in the 19th century. Transylvanian Romanians were Austrian subjects and carried Austrian documents; then Hungarian subjects, with Austro-Hungarian documents. Dahn (talk) 15:48, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not so well versed on the individual cases, I must admit. Indeed you are better placed to say which should have "Wallachian, later Romanian" and which should just have "Romanian" (or, indeed, just "Wallachian" or "Moldavian"). The point is that for some article subjects both nationalities are relevant to notability—for example Creangă and Pogor for the reasons you give—while for others only one is, for example if they were born just a couple of years before the union, or if they only became notable people after it, when they were already Romanians; or if they were only notable before it, as Wallachians or Moldavians. So it isn't a matter of simply "being consistent" across the board based on birth nationality or whatever.
 * The edit at 1906 in literature was inconsistent with the one at Pogor's own article, you are correct—I've changed it.
 * On Transylvania: I don't dispute that. I mentioned it above because I did see articles with "Transylvanian-born Romanian" in the opening sentence, which I took to refer to birth in Transylvania as opposed to a nationality for the reasons you have just given. See for example here, here, here. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  16:02, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

War on Israel
Please see my warning and suggestion here. Debresser (talk) 09:23, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Debresser, thanks for this. (The header 'War on Israel' did shock me more than a little bit! Haha.) Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  09:32, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway, and as a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 23 September. For the Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 September 2016
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Semi-retired
Hi, John, I'm sorry to see the "semi-retirement" banner on your user page. It seems that nearly all the editors I've enjoyed good working relationships recently have left, are leaving, or are cutting back – it rather tends to make Wikipedia a joyless place to work in. I enjoyed our collaboration on the Bounty article, and your help and encouragement on several others. Brianboulton (talk) 20:35, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Brian, thanks for the note—I'm rather sorry as well, particularly as I have seen a number of fine editors leave recently. If it's any consolation, it's not so much because of any disenchantment or disillusionment that I've put the banner up; it's just because between work and family I simply no longer have the spare time I used to have to do serious editing. As you may have seen I had hoped to get the article on Sir Alf Ramsey up to FA in time for the 50th anniversary of the World Cup win two months ago, but in the end I just didn't have the time to do it. It's a shame, and I share your sentiments about the Bounty collaboration, which I did enjoy very much. I hope to be able to make a bit of a comeback at some point in the future, but for the foreseeable future I think my activity will have to remain rather modest; I'm sorry. I'm always nipping in almost daily, though, and still see messages—so if there's ever anything you think I might be able to lend a hand with don't hesitate to give me a shout. Hope you're well and have a nice weekend. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  20:51, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVI, October 2016
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The Signpost: 14 October 2016
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Rhodesian mission in Lisbon (pt. 2)
Are you sure that the old lead without bolding isn't better? I think this first paragraph is a clearer overview than the current article has. But that might just be me. :-) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 20:16, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll leave it to your discretion in the first instance, a second pair of eyes is often better. I'll have a look tomorrow. Cheers :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  20:42, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * No hurry. I just stumbled on the article and was poking around for no good reason when I found the old lead. :-) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 13:45, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Props
Luton, eh? Went there once with AFCB. The chip shop we went to isn't there any more. Britmax (talk) 18:32, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds about right. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  19:13, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 November 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXVII, November 2016
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P. K. van der Byl
Given you'd written about Ian Smith, I figured you'd be more familiar with this person than I am - just wondering if you could cast your eye over P. K. van der Byl as it is listed at User:Dweller/Featured Articles that haven't been on Main Page - if it is all in order then it could go on the main page some time and if in a bad state might need a note to fix or failing that WP:FARC. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Cas, I do know PK and his story quite well but don't have much time right now. I will look it over when I get a chance and will ping you when I have done. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  10:09, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Cool. Look there is no hurry at all as it has been listed at that page for years....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:16, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll let you know when I've finished looking it over. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  11:06, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Haven't had time to have a proper look yet but a cursory glance throws up concerns about sourcing (several paragraphs end without inline citations), and there are issues with NPOV—editorial claims thrown in as fact such as a poem being "poorly written", and several similar unqualified judgements about Van der Byl and Rhodesia in Wikipedia's voice ("somewhat unsuccessfully to foreign observers", "This was a curious omission given his position", "The propaganda circulated by his Ministry ... was considered laughable"). There are statements exhibiting this problem in addition to being uncited, such as "Within the somewhat claustrophobic confines of white Rhodesian society outside the RF, Van der Byl was achieving some degree of respect". Needs some work. Cheers, hope this helps, Merry Christmas —  Cliftonian   (talk)  20:22, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That's a start. I will link the discussion here and raise it as a concern on the talk page. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:36, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * OK ta. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  20:38, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 November 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXVIII, December 2016
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The Signpost: 22 December 2016
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Seasons Greetings
Happy Christmas, Hogmanay and New Years from OzFoofbun (talk) 07:08, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And to you sir! :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  08:22, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Joe Warbrick
Hey Cliftonian. I came here to ask your opinion on the article Joe Warbrick and whether you think it'd up to snub to have a chance at FAC, but I see that you are semi-retired! I have not been very active myself this year, and understand why there may not be much time for wikipedia anymore. Anyway have a good Christmas and New Year! All the best. -- Shudde  talk 13:13, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Shudde, just had a quick look through on the phone and I think it'd be worth nominating. Can't make promises about how much time I could dedicate but I do see these messages, feel free to drop me a line if you think I could be of assistance. All the best to you, a very happy Christmas and a joyous New Year from all of us here. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  13:23, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Great. Thanks for having a brief look. I've initiated a peer review here if you do have any feedback. Thanks again and enjoy the holiday season. -- Shudde  talk 14:35, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry, merry!
From the icy Canajian north; to you and yours! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 02:03, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And to you! Cheers matey —  Cliftonian   (talk)  09:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon!
Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:01, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.

The Bugle: Issue CXXIX, January 2017
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

WOPA
I extented WOPA because it is not at all obvious why it should be a subsection of a section giving notable former AFCW players (rather than a separate section). Your reversion edit note doesn't explain why you disagree? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:17, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi John, it is still a separate section is it not, just level 3 rather than level 2? It is an organisation for former AFCW players and WFC players, so I agree it doesn't belong within the 'former players' bit of the AFCW page—but I think having it adjacent, under the 'players' header, is reasonable. Bumping up to level 2 in my view seems to imply a lack of connection to the subject of AFC Wimbledon players, which would raise the question of why it's in the AFC Wimbledon article at all. It was your own proposed compromise I think and I think it's a good solution. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  18:32, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 January 2017
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Precious anniversary!
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:08, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Today, thank you for Military service of Ian Smith, "This article is about the time Ian Smith, the Rhodesian Prime Minister who declared independence from Britain in 1965, spent as a fighter pilot in the Royal Air Force during WW2. He suffered partial facial paralysis in one crash, then following another behind enemy lines he crossed the Alps to find Allied troops, finishing the journey barefoot. All this helps to give a fuller picture of the kind of mindset Smith had by the time the independence issue came to a head in the 1960s." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:29, 28 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Cheers Gerda! :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  08:24, 28 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Today, for Paul Kruger who "never read any book apart from the Bible and thought the Earth was flat, but nevertheless rose to be the four-time president of a republic that defied the British Empire"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:47, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gerda! :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  06:09, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Five years! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:04, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Today, thank you for Ian Smith, the Rhodesian Prime Minister whose 15-year tenure played out like a Greek tragedy, stepped down in 1979 with two parallel reputations, each largely corresponding to opinions on his country in general. To some he was a visionary who understood problems outside observers did not, a hero whose Unilateral Declaration of Independence had saved Rhodesia from disaster. To most, however, he was an almost cartoonish figure of derision, a deluded, bigoted racist who had tried to stop the tide of history. The truth, as I hope this article shows, is somewhere between these two extremes."!

If you have a bit of time, look and listen ;) - She also performed in Israel. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:33, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 February 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXX, February 2017
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 04:45, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Rhodesian Presidents
Hello, Cliftonian! I must ask your help over a certain problem. As you may see, every single image of officeholders at President of Rhodesia is non-free. Strictly speaking, all of them should be removed from that article, but so far I avoided to do that. On the other hand, every single image of officeholders at Prime Minister of Rhodesia is free (uploaded at Commons), and thereby desirable to be used in that article (and in other related articles as well). Of course, the problem here is this - are there some images of Rhodesian Presidents which can be categorized as free and uploaded at Commons, as it should be? As you know, there were just two regular Presidents (Clifford Dupont and John Wrathall), other officeholders in the list were just acting Presidents. Can you help with uploading some free images of Dupont and Wrathall? We basically need only free images of these two, since only they were regular Presidents. As for acting Presidents, we can remove their images and put File:Coat of arms of Rhodesia.svg instead (as is already done at Prime Minister of Rhodesia, in cases where free images are missing). I'm looking forward to hear your thoughts on this. Cheers! --Sundostund (talk) 00:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

March Madness 2017
G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:


 * tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
 * updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
 * creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 February 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXI, March 2017
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 23:20, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Military service of Ian Smith for TFA
Hi Clif. This is just a friendly note to let you know that the Military service of Ian Smith article, which you nominated at FAC, has been scheduled as today's featured article for March 28, 2017. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Today's featured article/March 28, 2017. Thanks! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 03:14, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Chris, that blurb looks fine to me—I would suggest protecting the page during March 28 to prevent drive-by POV pushers, though, as they are wont to assault this sort of article when it appears on the main page. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  09:29, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I and the other TFA coordinators'll keep an eye on it. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:24, 13 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Cheers, thanks Chris —  Cliftonian   (talk)  12:52, 13 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Although you could make arguments about it, and people have, most sources regard Southern Rhodesia as a colony rather than a protectorate like NR or Bechuanaland, including the source I posted. Are you mixing up your Rhodesias? Great article by the way. --John (talk) 21:16, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * That sentence refers to Northern Rhodesia, not Southern, and always has done—I know the topic well and would not knowingly make an error like calling SR a protectorate. Cheers for the kind words, glad you think so —  Cliftonian   (talk)  21:20, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry if that came over a bit crusty, I am on my phone so brevity is order of the day. Cheers for your help and kind words, very much appreciated —  Cliftonian   (talk)  21:23, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Gosh I'm sorry, it's my mistake. Long day and my eyes are tired. It is I who am mixing up my Rhodesias. --John (talk) 21:42, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem, no harm done. Thanks for your help, it's appreciated. :) —  Cliftonian   (talk)  21:44, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXII, April 2017
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unlawful = illegal?
Are you sure that illegal and unlawful mean the same thing? (ref your edit to Wimbledon F.C. recently). I've certainly seen 'unlawful' used frequent;y. I have a vague idea that 'unlawful' is a "Civil wrong"" (tort) whereas 'illegal' is a criminal offence. But far from sure enough to revert! Is there a lawyer in the house? :-) --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I have a bit of grounding in criminal and civil law from work and so far as I know unlawful and illegal are the same, but my main concern here was to take away what could have been perceived as scare quotes—happy to go back to unlawful without quotes on it if you like. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  20:01, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to take your word for the legalities. I agree about the scare quotes either way. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Alf Ramsey
Mifter (talk) 02:13, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXIII, May 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIV, June 2017
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The Signpost: 9 June 2017
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The Signpost: 23 June 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXV, July 2017
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The Signpost: 15 July 2017
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Back for a while, and with a new PR
Hi Cliftonian, I hope all is well with you. After something of a break, I have recently been working on the militant suffragette Emily Davison—she of the 1913 Epsom Derby fame; the article is now at PR. Should you have the time and inclination, I would be absolutely delighted to hear any thoughts and comments you may have about its suitability for a push to FAC. Obviously there is no problem if you are otherwise engaged or don't find the subject of interest. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 06:48, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Gavin, I'm crazy busy but will try to find the time. All well thanks, hope same with you. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  12:16, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 5 August 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVI, August 2017
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The Signpost: 6 September 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVII, September 2017
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Balfour Declaration
Hi Cliftonian, I know you don't have much time for wiki nowadays, but I wanted to ask if you could find the time for a quick read of Balfour Declaration. I've been working hard to get it to FA status ahead of its upcoming centennial, and it is currently being peer reviewed for the second time. Since you've got such a glittering list of FA achievements, any input you can give would be very valuable. I also noticed from your userpage that you are English and have been to both Israel and Palestine, so I hoped you might find it an interesting subject. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:27, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll try to find some time. Thanks for thinking of me and for your very kind words above. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  21:49, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Hope to see you back on-wiki more frequently once time allows. Onceinawhile (talk) 05:16, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

2017 Military history WikiProject Coordinator election
Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Aberfan
Hi Cliftonian, I hope all is well with you. I have recently been working on the rather shocking Aberfan disaster; the article is now at PR. I appreciate that your time on WP is much more limited than it used to be, but should you have the time and inclination, I would be absolutely delighted to hear any thoughts and comments you may have about its suitability for a push to FAC. Obviously there is no problem if you are otherwise engaged or don't have the time. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 14:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll try to find the time. I read this article a while ago and remember it as particularly harrowing. Thanks for thinking of me and I'll try to find a few minutes. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  15:55, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 September 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVIII, October 2017
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Paul Kruger
What a splendid article on Oom paul. A fascinating read, for which many thanks. KJP1 (talk) 06:07, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Pleasure! Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  16:12, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 October 2017
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Category:Rhodesian physicians has been nominated for discussion
Category:Rhodesian physicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 07:52, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXIX, November 2017
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The Signpost: 24 November 2017
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Women in Red World Contest
Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting
As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXL, December 2017
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Category:Wikipedians who like NationStates
Hey! Based on your edits to NationStates, I thought maybe you would be interested that I started a series of userboxes for the game. Feel free to add any or add your own!- 🐦Do☭torWho42 ( ⭐ ) 06:22, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 December 2017
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User group for Military Historians
Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:29, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Seasons' Greetings
...to you and yours, from the Great White North! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 17:04, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLI, January 2018
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The Signpost: 16 January 2018
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The Signpost: 5 February 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLII, February 2018
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The Signpost: 20 February 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIII, March 2018
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April 2018 Milhist Backlog Drive
G'day all, please be advised that throughout April 2018 the Military history Wikiproject is running its annual backlog elimination drive. This will focus on several key areas:


 * tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
 * adding or improving listed resources on Milhist's task force pages
 * updating the open tasks template on Milhist's task force pages
 * creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the scope of military history will be considered eligible. This year, the Military history project would like to extend a specific welcome to members of WikiProject Women in Red, and we would like to encourage all participants to consider working on helping to improve our coverage of women in the military. This is not the sole focus of the edit-a-thon, though, and there are aspects that hopefully will appeal to pretty much everyone.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 April and runs until 23:59 UTC on 30 April 2018. Those interested in participating can sign up here.

For the Milhist co-ordinators, AustralianRupert and MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:53, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Signpost issue 4 – 29 March 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIIV, April 2018
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Gregor Macgregor
Hi Cliftonian, do you by any chance have access to the Sinclair book? I have a likely candidate for the ship Ocean that took the survivors back to England, but I need a little evidence before I add a footnote. The candidate is a vessel of 263 tons (bm), launched at Whitby in 1797, possibly with Whittle, master, and sailing between London and Yucatan in 1823. If you have any info, positive or negative, please answer here and ping me. Also, if you know anything about the vessels the Royal Navy turned back, that would be useful too. I am thinking of creating a List page of vessels associated with the Poyais scheme. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:59, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Acad, I have the book but I’m afraid can’t help with further info about the ship, there isn’t any in there. Sorry. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  14:34, 14 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for looking. That's often the trouble with popular books - lack of sources. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:14, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIV, May 2018
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The Signpost: 24 May 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLVI, June 2018
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 10:35, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 June 2018
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:29, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLVII, July 2018
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:12, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Ian Smith scheduled for TFA
This is to let you know that I've scheduled Ian Smith to appear on the main page as today's featured article on 2 August 2018. If you need to make tweaks to the blurb, it is at Today's featured article/August 2, 2018. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:45, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, looks basically good to me. Cheers —  Cliftonian   (talk)  12:47, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 July 2018
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The Bugle: Issue CXLVIII, August 2018
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:35, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 August 2018
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:03, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open
Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. Cheers, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:53, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLIX, September 2018
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 22:19, 10 September 2018 (UTC)