User talk:Rfc1394/2011

All of 2011

WikiXDC: Wikipedia 10th Birthday!
You are invited to WikiXDC, a special meetup event and celebration on Saturday, January 22 hosted by the National Archives and Records Administration in downtown Washington, D.C. Please RSVP soon as possible, as there likely will be a cap on number of attendees that NARA can accommodate.
 * Date: January 22, 2011 (tentatively 9:30 AM - 5 PM)
 * Location: National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), downtown building, Pennsylvania Avenue & 7th St NW.
 * Description: There will be a behind-the-scenes tour of the National Archives and you will learn more about what NARA does. We will also have a mini-film screening featuring FedFlix videos along with a special message from Jimmy Wales. In the afternoon, there will be lightning talks by Wikimedians (signup to speak), wiki-trivia, and cupcakes to celebrate!
 * Details & RSVP:  Details about the event are on our Washington, DC tenwiki page.

Note: You can unsubscribe from DC meetup notices by removing your name at Meetup/DC/Invite/List. BrownBot (talk) 02:07, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Delimiterless input for deletion
The article Delimiterless input is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Delimiterless input until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. —EncMstr (talk) 22:54, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

License tagging for File:First Interstate Bank logo.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:First Interstate Bank logo.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information; to add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia.

For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 21:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Section template list
Template:Section template list has been nominated for merging with Template:Hatnote templates documentation. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. -DePiep (talk) 21:27, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:CavTel
Template:CavTel has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. WOSlinker (talk) 18:42, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikimania 2012 bid, DC chapter & next meetup!

 * 1) At WikiXDC in January, User:Harej proposed that DC submit a bid to host Wikimania 2012. A bid and organizing committee is being formed and seeks additional volunteers to help. Please look at our bid page and sign up if you want to help out.  You can also signup for the bid team's email list.
 * 2) To support the Wikimania bid, more events like WikiXDC, and outreach activities like collaborations with the Smithsonian (ongoing) and National Archives, there also has been discussion of forming Wikimedia DC, as an official Wikimedia chapter.  You can express interest and contribute to chapter discussions on the Wikimedia DC Meta-Wiki pages.
 * 3) To discuss all this and meet up with special guest, Dutch Wikipedian User:Kim Bruning, there will be a meetup, Meetup/DC 16 this Tuesday at 7pm, at Capitol City Brewery, Metro Center. There will be a pre-meetup Wikimania team meeting at 6pm at the same location.

Apologies for the short notice for this meetup, but let's discuss when, where & what for DC Meetup #17. Also, if you haven't yet, please join wikimedia-dc mailing list to stay informed. Cheers, User:Aude (talk)

Note: You can unsubscribe from DC meetup notices by removing your name at Meetup/DC/Invite/List. -- Message delivered by AudeBot, on behalf of User:Aude

DC Meetup: May 7 @ Tenleytown Library
The next DC Wikimedia meetup is scheduled for Saturday, May 7, 3:30-5:30 pm at the Tenleytown Library (adjacent to the Tenleytown Metro Station, Red Line), followed by dinner & socializing at some nearby place.

This is the first official meeting of our proposed Wikimedia DC chapter, with discussion of bylaws and next steps. Other agenda items include, update everyone on our successful Wikimania bid and next steps in the planning process, discuss upcoming activities that we want to do over the summer and fall, and more.

Please RSVP here and see a list of additional tentatively planned meetups & activities for late May & June on the Meetup/DC page.

Note: You can unsubscribe from DC meetup notices by removing your name at Meetup/DC/Invite/List. -- Message delivered by AudeBot, on behalf of User:Aude

May 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
. --Kumioko (talk) 17:02, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:In use
Template:In use has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ryan Vesey (talk) 01:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

June 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
--Kumioko (talk) 22:38, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Ndash
Template:Ndash has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

GLAM-Wiki Baltimore meetup
 You are invited to the first Wikipedia Baltimore meetup on Saturday, July 23, 10:00am-12:30pm at the Walters Art Museum. Come meet Wikimedians, learn about GLAM-Wiki partnerships, get involved, and discuss future wiki outreach and activities in the Baltimore area!

There also is a Wikipedia & Cultural Heritage at the Young Preservationist Happy Hour on Friday, July 22, 6:30pm at the Midtown Yacht Club, an unpretentious neighborhood pub.

Note: You can remove your name from the Baltimore meetup invite list here. -- Message delivered by AudeBot, on behalf of User:Aude

The WikiProject National Archives Newsletter
The first ever WikiProject National Archives newsletter has been published. Please read on to find out what we're up to and how to help out! There are many opportunities for getting more involved. Dominic·t 21:38, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

July 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
--Kumioko (talk) 13:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

California Area Codes
While editing Area codes 760 and 442, I noticed the pink-boxed list of California area codes in the External links section is missing the 442 area code. Since the editable section that seems to deals with the state list has your user name attach to it. I hope you can fix he omission. — Glenn L (talk) 05:13, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Mile marker
Template:Mile marker has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page.  Imzadi 1979  →   21:37, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Donovan Leich.png listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Donovan Leich.png, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.  S ven M anguard  Wha?  12:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Copyright Treaty Countries
Template:Copyright Treaty Countries has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. — This, that, and the other (talk) 00:57, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

List of California area codes
I just updated the above article, and have noticed that the area code map, as well as the maps of virtually every California area code, do not show the area codes 541 and 458 and area codes 760 and 442 dual overlays, showing instead only 541 and 760 respectively on the maps. My guess is that only somebody with experience editing the maps such as you would be able to update the maps to reflect the overlays. I'm working on fixing the external links to all area codes surrounding 760/442, none of which showed the overlay before I started fixing things up. — Glenn L (talk) 05:59, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

(Posted on Glenn L's user page) I note your comment on my user page about the lack of additional overlays on the California area code maps. This is a problem with me because I live in Maryland and unless someone - like you - points it out to me I'm not aware of it (see earlier A/C 442 comment on your user page). One of the problems has been switching to an SVG-based editable map instead of image maps. Then each map must be edited to change the format to include the new area codes and to color code them for that area code. I am thinking one of two things. Use a single map for all of California, edit it to include the new A/C each time they add an overlay, and save that as the master map. Now here is where the choice comes in (1) use the same map for every single area code, which would then require only one change each time California adds a new area code; (2) use that map as a start, then for each map, change the one area code to make its color red.

The disadvantages are: (1) you don't get a unique map for each area code showing itself in red; (2) every time a new area code is added in California all 20+ area code maps have to be updated. If A/Cs are being added like once a year or so that's not a lot of work, but it is still a bit tedious.

I want to move exclusively to SVG format maps in place of images, because SVG maps can be edited (they're just text files) whereas images have to be redrawn or material added. For example, changing the area code in an image requires erasing the old area codes then painting the new numbers in place. Changing an area code in an SVG map simply means editing the number to add the new numbers.

I am thinking, even if it is a bit more work to go with the multi-map format where each area code has its own map derived from the state map. I've also got a partially completed North America map, the intention is to have a single map for all of Canada, the US and the Caribbean countries, from which the individual state maps can be extracted. I also prefer having a state map show the area codes for the border states that touch it, e.g. showing the 775 and 702 area codes where they touch California. (Some area code maps for other states have only that state and don't show border states.)

In any case, I'll see about getting an updated California map to include the new area codes you mentioned. For the reasons I stated it will be an SVG map. I'd also like to hear any comments you have. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 05:46, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I'd say SVG may be the best way to simplify editing. I wonder if it means that I could personally edit such a file - with your help of course at first. :) — Glenn L (talk) 05:57, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, the California map has been updated to reflect the changes to Oregon and the 760 area code overlay.


 * As per your comments about editing SVG images, the open-source Inkscape program does a marvelous job, but, you could edit an SVG image using Notepad if you wanted. Like HTML files, SVG images are actually text files. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 06:39, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I saved "Area codes CA.svg" on my computer. Looks good, but for some reason on my List of California area codes the main map has a Black Box instead of "442/760". Also, I'm proceeding to change all 541/458 and 760/442 refs to 458/541 and 442/760 to avoid unnecessary redirects. Good thing I get a rare paid holiday so I don't have to worry about sleep... 8-|  — Glenn L (talk) 07:02, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The black box problem was one I'm aware of; I could not figure out what was causing it. I reverted to the earlier image, added the Oregon and 442/760 images and it no longer has a black box.  But I have a 'gotcha'  You missed the 747/818 overlay!  Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 07:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Indeed I did miss that! I too have a 'gotcha'. I don't mind you calling North Orange county 657/714, but I think you should keep the list of communities in 714 since that was the original split from 213, not 657. I hope that makes sense! — Glenn L (talk) 07:23, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I went ahead and put the 657 communities back in 714 in the List of California area codes, and noted that 714 split from 213 back in 1951. And thanks for the Purge tip! I think California is finally up-to-date for now. — Glenn L (talk) 17:59, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

PS: Thanks for fixing my talk page. I'm gonna move your remark to the tail end of the topic in which our discussion took place. — Glenn L (talk) 07:30, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

September 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
--Kumioko (talk) 03:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Area codes
Hi. I noticed you moved Area codes 905 and 289 to Area codes 289 and 905. I understand the motivation to put them in numerical order, but in this case I'm not sure that's the best. Area code 905 is the original and primary area code, while 289 is a later addition, brought into effect because they needed more numbers. I think that might be more significant than numerical order. Does that make sense? -GTBacchus(talk) 17:30, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

(Reply)
You asked me a question regarding moving the page Area codes 905 and 289 to Area codes 289 and 905 because I wanted to change it to numerical order. I also changed all the links on other pages that reference the original page to eliminate the possibility of a double redirect (which does not go through). I'll explain my thought process and you tell me what you think. But first, a little history to explain why I do this that way.

Originally all area codes were of the format N0X N1X where, in telephone technical code, N means 2-9 and X means any digit. Prefixes were always NNX so that the primitive computers of the 1950s and 1960s could determine what the number was. You dialed a NNX-XXXX local number as 7 digits, a long-distance one as 1+area code+7d, N0X/N1X-NNX-XXXX. Now, in some places a number in the same area code was long distance, so they allowed you to be warned by dialing 1+7d, 1+NNX-XXXX but that meant that a prefix couldn't be the same as an area code. There were some special settings so 411 or 1-411 would also work.

In the late 1970s that scheme of NNX prefixes came up against a brick wall when they started running out of prefixes in some areas but didn't want to go to the trouble and expense of starting new area codes. The computers were also smarter, and so the idea of allowing prefixes to be NXX adds about 20% more phone numbers. But you could no longer have 1+ for 7 digit dialing if there were NXX prefixes unless you implemented a time out so if you dialed 1+7d and waited a long time for it to realize you're not dialing an area code.

Then there was the AT&T breakup and the deregulation of phone service allowing any reasonable competitor to either resell phone service from the phone company or put in their own switch. Plus cell phones. The floodgates opened, and now even adding NXX prefixes weren't enough to cover demand, plus they couldn't allocate a telephone company a partial prefix, the technology wasn't there to allow a partial prefix assignment with multiple companies sharing one prefix, so if you got an assignment it didn't matter whether you had 300 customers or 3,000, you got a whole prefix with 10,000 numbers.

This exacerbated the exhaustion of prefixes and so more area codes had to be added. Then they had problems there because area codes still had the old N0X/N1X format, which limits to about 200 area codes. We had two choices: go to a longer area code format (which will probably occur once the current scheme becomes exhausted, sometime around 2020) or make area codes the same as prefixes, NXX format. The latter is the choice that was made.

Now, originally when a new area code was issued it was done by splitting an existing area code, part of the code stayed in the old area code and the rest went to the new code. It meant everyone where the new area code was to be created had to change everything: stationery, business cards, anything with numbers programmed into it to the new area code. Also, if you keep splitting an existing area code eventually you end up with a tiny area code in a densely populated area; the 213 area code, which used to serve all of Southern California, is basically just downtown Los Angeles. Chicago's 312 is basically the Loop and that's it.

It was a political decision to implement overlays. (Technically any issue where multiple people have to agree to a solution to a problem is a political one, but bear with me.) The issuance of new area codes wasn't merely the incumbent Bell company deciding to add one, now you have NANPA, (the private administrative body that handles area code assignments), the FCC and the State Public Utilities Commission (or the equivalent if it's not called that). So the choice between splitting and overlays is based on whose politics are better served. Originally, most people wanted to stay in one area code (which allows 7-digit dialing on local calls) as opposed to having overlay codes (which require 10-digit dialing on all calls).

An example of where it wasn't a political decision was back when there had to be a new area code in Southern California, area code 310 to split part of 213. Since, at that time, the control over what prefixes got put in the new code and which ones remained in the old one was left with the Bell company for that area, Pacific Bell got to decide. And what PacBell decided is the much smaller competitor General Telephone ended up having all of its exchanges moved into the new area code, while Pacific Bell generally minimized the exchanges it had to move.

Realizing that having overlays means your number never has to change, most people came to the conclusion that merely having to dial the area code on same area code calls was easier than having a 50/50 chance of needing to change your area code every time the one you're in runs out of prefixes (or the alternative, impose rationing of telephone service, a new customer will have to wait until a number becomes available.)

So anyway, given that the use of overlays is the result of a combination of legacy old numbers and new ones, I want to establish my own policy in that all area codes should be considered equivalent, whether they are pre-1999 N0X/N1X or post 1999 NXX codes. That's why I don't order by whether it's an original 1947-1999 code or one of the new ones, when there's an overlay the primary listing should be in order by number (but with redirects for the alternatives; that's why there's a redirect for area codes 703 and 571 to go to area codes 571 and 703. I think it's fairer this way as it doesn't "ghettoize" those who end up in an area with new-style area code (and possibly overlays).

I will admit the policy isn't uniform, eventually I'll change a page that is set up not in compliance with this policy but it may be weeks or months depending on how I feel, how tired I am and how much work is involved. If I have to change 10 pages I'll do that in one day. If it's 100 pages that have to be redone it may take several weeks. After all, this isn't a job, it's supposed to be fun, not work (or if it was work I'd expect to be paid for it!)

I admit it's an arbitrary policy decision, but I made it because it seems fair, it treats all area codes equally regardless of how recent they are, and it's consistent in that the listing is in numerical order. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 00:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Huh. Thanks for the thorough explanation. I like learning history, no matter how obscure the topic. I'm a little worried that this seems to be a one-person decision ("I want to establish my own policy in that all area codes should be considered equivalent"), but if nobody is bothered by it, then whatever. I would have listed them in the order they were established, instead of numerical order which seems somehow more arbitrary (after all, the numbers aren't functioning in a way that depends at all on their ordering - 209 doesn't mean two-hundred ninth in a list, or two-hundred and nine of something), but it's not something that's important to me. Thanks again for explaining. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:35, 7 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know it's an arbitrary decision, I said it was! Day-template.svg  Also, by just being numeric order I don't have to know which area code occurred on which date.  I mean, it would be just as arbitrary if I went the way you suggested.  It might conceivably be a better organization method than the way I'm doing, except for one thing: I can't screw my method up!  There's no interpretation or research or possibility of undetected error, e.g. if an area code released in 2005 is listed before one from 1990.  With my method, either the list of multiple area codes for a location is in numeric order and right, or it's not.  Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 02:05, 8 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, the way places got area codes originally did have significance. Since the area code system was first implemented in 1947, it was used on rotary service.  An area code with a low number dials faster (fewer "pulls"), so "more important" states got low numbers and 1 as the center number.  If I remember correctly, states only requiring a single area code got one with 0 in the middle.  If a state was big enough that it needed multiple area codes, they got a 1 in the middle digit. Or it got a low number.  New York City got 212, Los Angeles 213, Dallas 214, Chicago 312, San Francisco 415.  New Jersey, since that was the home of Bell Labs, got the lowest area code available, 201.  Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 02:26, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

You're invited! Wikimedia DC Annual Membership Meeting
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You're invited! Wikipedia Loves Libraries DC
Note: You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list here. -- Message delivered by AudeBot (talk) 19:07, 31 October 2011 (UTC), on behalf of User:Aude

File:Capital beltway 240x209.PNG listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Capital beltway 240x209.PNG, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Kelly hi! 01:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

December 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
--Kumioko (talk) 01:45, 13 December 2011 (UTC)