User talk:Rfmayo

October 2013
This is your last warning. The next time you disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Mogwai, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. ''You have been informed enough times now as to how collective nouns in British English work, and the fact that a number of editors have reverted your edits (both from this account and your IPs) across multiple articles should have been enough to make you realise why you are in error. '' Black Kite (talk) 23:55, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Black Kite, I *am* British, I edit a newspaper, and am studying a Phd in English Literature. I know perfectly well how my native language works and know equally well that Mogwai and other bands are cohesive units and take the singular verb form. Thanks for threatening me again, but please take the time to learn how language and grammar work before throwing your weight around and pretending you're an expert on grammar.

Here's some guidance from Wikipedia itself:

"In British English, it is generally accepted that collective nouns can take either singular or plural verb forms depending on the context and the metonymic shift that it implies. For example, "the team is in the dressing room" (formal agreement) refers to the team as an ensemble, whilst "the team are fighting among themselves" (notional agreement) refers to the team as individuals. This is also British English practice with names of countries and cities in sports contexts; for example, "Germany have won the competition.", "Madrid have lost three consecutive matches.", etc. In American English, collective nouns almost invariably take singular verb forms (formal agreement). In cases where a metonymic shift would be otherwise revealed nearby, the whole sentence may be recast to avoid the metonymy. (For example, "The team are fighting among themselves" may become "the team members are fighting among themselves" or simply "The team is fighting.") See American and British English differences - Formal and notional agreement."

I personally disagree with the convention of referring to sports teams in the plural, but I'm pretty certain Mogwai isn't a city or sports team. On a more serious note, check the examples in the first part of that paragraph - the plural is used when shifting from talking about the team as a cohesive unit to talking about the members that constitute the team. 'Mogwai is a band from Glasgow' requires no such shift, and the singular implied by the word 'band' rather than 'band members' should be retained.
 * If that's the case, then there are hundreds of articles about British bands which for some reason don't conform to your view of the language, not to mention multiple editors who disagree. Furthermore, a quick perusal of heavyweight UK sources will show that bands are almost without exception referred to in the plural.  Try searching for "is touring" and "are touring", partnering it with "Guardian" ot "Telegraph", for example.  You will find that bands always use "are".   At Wikipedia we depend on reliable sources and consensus, both of which are clearly in favour of the plural form. Repeatedly changing the article back against consensus is pointless; it will be reverted, and you will eventually be blocked. Black Kite (talk) 19:43, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

That is the case, and if I had the time and inclination I'd like to see those hundreds of articles corrected too. The prevalence of something doesn't make it correct - many British people would write 'must of' instead of 'must have', or would 'try and' do something instead of 'try to' do something. So, are you going to change all articles on wikipedia to have even more grammatical errors simply because that's a consensus amongst most of the British population?

The Guardian is riddled with spelling errors and I've never read the Torygraph but I can't imagine it would conform to the standard of writing I would *like* to expect from a national newspaper. Can you provide any explanation as to why a band (the clue is there in the singular 'a') should be referred to in the plural besides 'loads of other people do it'?
 * Well frankly I'd like to take people who write "must of" and bang their heads repeatedly against a solid object, but that's by the by. I personally don't know why the standard in British English is to use the plural for bands, but it clearly is. Here's an analogy though; my wife is a teacher, and told me a couple of days ago that "Ofsted are visiting this week".  Now clearly that's referring to a group of Ofsted inspectors (hence the plural) as opposed to Ofsted the government body.  I can only think that the usage for bands is the same; they're being treated as a collection of people rather than a single entity.  As you say, the same applies to sports clubs ("Liverpool are playing away tonight" refers to a team of players, not the actual football club itself).   Whatever the reasoning, it does appear to be the de facto standard and one that is reflected in relevant reliable sources, and so it is the one we use here. Black Kite (talk) 21:37, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

So that's a 'no', then.