User talk:Richardo42

Please leave any thoughts here! Best, Richardo42 (talk) 17:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

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advice
As reviewing administrator, I have some suggestions for your article on Ben Friedman.

A Wikipedia article needs to be written like an encyclopedia article, not a press release--don't praise the   person, say what they do. Don't talk about the give extensive quotes from him--it makes the article sound promotional. Remember not to copy from a web site, even your own -- first it's a copyright violation, but, even if you own the copyright and are willing to give us permission according to WP:DCM, the tone will not be encyclopedic and the material will not be suitable. )What we do need permission for, is the picture--see WP:DCM for the formalities)

Include only material that would be of interest to a general reader coming across the mention of the subject and wanting the sort of information that would be found in an encyclopedia. Do not include material that would be of interest only to those associated with the subject, such as the details of staffing. . Keep in mind that the goal of an encyclopedia is to say things in a concise manner, which is not the style of  press releases or  web sites, which are usually more expansive.

As a general rule, a suitable page will be best written by someone without Conflict of Interest; it's not impossible to do it properly with a conflict of interest or as a paid press agent, but it's relatively more difficult: you are automatically thinking in terms of what the subject wishes to communicate to the public, but an uninvolved person will think in terms of what the public might wish to know.

If you think you can do it right according to our guidelines, do so, but expect the article to be carefully checked for objectivity. If I can help you further, ask on my talk page.  DGG ( talk ) 09:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Note to self: the following is an archive of the original conversation at User talk:DGG

Hi DGG, thanks so much for your advice on the Ben Federman article. I always appreciate feedback that helps me improve my editing. If you don't mind, I had a few questions.

Per your advice, I tried to cut any facts that seemed both off topic and positive. I also tried to cut quotes so it wouldn't seem like it was giving undue weight to the positive. But I'll admit, I'm not so great at streamlining intuitively, which makes your advice about the quotes doubly helpful. My method of contributing usually involves binge research and going crazy with citations. Sometimes I feel I verge on adding too much of what I've discovered, and then get too attached to a first draft to really know what to cut out.
 * Question about streamlining

I'm sure you're busy and so I hate to ask, but I could I lure you into returning to the page to remove any information that you feel is extraneous? It would give me a chance to analyze your instinct for inclusion, and hopefully help me learn something I can apply to my future contributions.

''Basically when writing a page for an entrepreneur type, I'm not sure where to draw the line on company details. Part of my brain argues that it helps the reader understand why the person is notable, while the other part of my brain argues it seems only tangentially related. For a specific example, I'm not sure if the quote in the Octagon commerce section that says "Instead of using third-party advertising on his sites...rely solely on viral publicity" is too off topic for a biography or not.)''

After your tags I tried to improve the page as best I could, and am proud to say I think it meets all the Wikipedia guidelines at least I'm aware of (proper third-party citations, neutral and original wording, all standard sections, infobox, proper lead, etc.)
 * Request for review

However, I don't feel comfortable removing the tags myself because they are largely a critique of my contributions. Do you mind if I ask; could you be the page's angel of sorts and review the entry again? I was hoping you could either find it satisfactory and remove the tags, could make the changes you think will bring it up to par, or could let me know what else you think needs to be done. It's pretty complete already, so I doubt it would take long.

At some point, my goal on Wikipedia is to have an article nominated to "good status," so I tried to add the page with that in mind. Having an administrator look it over and actually give it a critical, constructive edit would make me so very happy.

Head ups, I suppose I do have a bias on this topic; I use Federman's website regularly, and I thought he seemed like a neat guy when I was doing research (being a tepid fan counts as a sort of bias, right?). But my goal is honestly to have it 100% neutral, so anything I can do to get it there, I'll do in a heartbeat.

Thanks! Richardo42 (talk) 20:27, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * One thing you could do to make it look less promotional, is to remove most of the "Friedman" and replace it with "he" or "his"
 * Another thing, is to look at each sentence and see if there are any words you can eliminate without affecting the meaning. : e.g. replace "Federman is known for frequently interacting with customers via ..." with "He interacts with customers on ..."  or, at age 18" with "at 18"
 * A more general problem is the discussion of what he only plans to do. I read such statements as promotional.
 * Since he's a businessman, perhaps a different picture would be appropriate: the picture should relate to his primary activity, which is not rowing a boat.
 * And if you're looking for a GA, you might have more success with his brother Eliyahu Federman, who has a public career. His picture is, btw, an example of what I mean by an  appropriate picture: informal, but showing him doing what he's known for.    DGG ( talk ) 16:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
 * After you've done these, I'll take another look.  DGG ( talk ) 16:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I went ahead and tried to incorporate what you said. I think it did tone it down a lot. I figure I'll hold off on a picture until I can find one more appropriate. I'll probably consider the brother as my next pet project, his activism seems interesting.
 * Ben Federman (Revision history / previous edit) Richardo42 (talk) 04:16, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi DGG, hope you had a good weekend. Sorry to prod, but by chance do you have a minute to look over the new Federman update? Richardo42 (talk) 18:18, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll get there today.  DGG ( talk ) 18:24, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It needed some cutting. If you don't see the purpose of my cuts, ask me. I may do some more--it still sounds too much like an inspirational biography. But, looking at it, you might as well put back the picture. I give no guarantee the article will stay in Wikipedia, of course; I'm not going to nominate it for deletion, but anyone else can & I won't be the one who decides.  DGG ( talk ) 21:05, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks, understood. I looked through the changes and see why you did each one; I agree with them. Thanks for taking the time to help me understand. While I'm not quite sure how to scrub out the facts to seem less inspirational, I guess if I find some well-sourced dirt on him I'll add a controversy section or something. I'll keep my eyes open. At some point I'd still like to try this one for GA, so I hope you don't mind if I removed the maintenance tags. Now that you've given it your knowing eye, I feel pretty confident it's squeaky awesome :D Richardo42 (talk) 01:42, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * (also, I hope you don't mind if I archive this conversation on my talk page as well - but I'll consider this the place for conversation) 01:42, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

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