User talk:Rifleman 82/Archive 10 (End Apr 2011)

File:Synthesis of SPANphos.png missing description details
Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:Synthesis of SPANphos.png is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers.

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If you have any questions please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:20, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

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2D Chemical model drawing software
Hi, I was wondering what software you were using to draw 2D models such as File:Lithium 2,2,6,6-tetramethylpiperidide.png. Is it freeware? If it is not, can you reccommend some freeware that can create 2D models just like yours? Thanks. YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 05:53, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Try Chemsketch. http://www.acdlabs.com/download/ See the structure drawing section of WP:CHEMMOS. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 06:17, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I've already downloaded it and tried it out, but it just doesn't look similar to the "standard" ones that are on Wikipedia. That's why I asked you this question. It also shows the methyl groups that are normally "hidden" on Wikipedia 2D chemical structure images. YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 09:50, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Choose ACS settings. It's in the structure guide (Manual_of_Style_(chemistry)/Structure_drawing). --Rifleman 82 (talk) 10:07, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. But out of curiosity, can you tell me what software you use? YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 12:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I use. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 18:50, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh! I didn't realize... Out of curiosity, what is the fuss about having a transparent background? YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 01:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It is easier to re-use images which have a transparent background. A black background is jarring in view of the white backgrounds of WP articles. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 01:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Uh... I meant between white/transparent backgrounds (I know the difference, but I mean why transparent is required). Why not white too? YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 01:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

The images on Commons or Wikipedia are freely available to anybody, for any purpose (look at your license tag). That's why we require high resolution only images. If the backgrounds were transparent, they can be incorporated more easily into other work, e.g. if it were used on a website with a pale blue background, it would fit. A white background would give you a white box in the blue background which is undesirable. Since so much effort is used to prepare these high resolution high quality images, having the backgrounds transparent will make it complete. Try IrfanView and the instructions in the structure drawing guide. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 04:35, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! But sometimes it can be very troublesome to convert to transparent using GIMP (which I am using and when you delete black parts it becomes white or transparent. It is irreversible if you accidentally save it, thinking that the background was transparent instead of white. Well, that's because I use select by colour. Once you save the background as white, and you want to select the background and change it to transparent (I found out already), the middle of the hydrogen atoms will also be gone too!). But I'll just need to be more careful to solve that problem... Or do you have any simpler ways to do it? I wouldn't really like to download more applications, but if you reccommend it strongly, I'll try it out.

Anyway, thanks for your help and advice! YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 08:29, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe your software has presets for white background. Or you can define it individually. CPK coloring is a commonly accepted standard (blue for nitrogen, yellow for sulfur, red for oxygen, etc.). How do you construct these pictures? From real data or some sort of computational method? Or do you just draw it and let it fit? --Rifleman 82 (talk) 08:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

As I said above, I am using Accelrys Discovery Studio, and I draw but I do use the normal colouring. But the image editor that I use is GIMP, and it doesn't recognise the black/white as a background. So I need to select the black colour and delete it. But if I try to delete a white background, the middles of the hydrogen atoms will be gone too. YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 12:17, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Go talk to User:Benjah-bmm27 then. He might be able to help you more. But what I'm saying is, rather than imagining how a molecule or fragment might look like, try to find actual crystal data, either in the form of a CIF file you can import, or as atomic coordinates published as a table (older literature). That's more reliable than trying to guesstimate how a molecule would look. I think this is what you mean by "draw" - using your imagination. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 18:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Salt extraction process
You should salt the page.

'Cuz it'd be funny.

Or something. I dunno... Half Shadow  22:32, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow
Sorry I was completely out of step with the MoS on this and I thought it said the opposite. Sorry. I'll ask for moves on WP:RM (as all of these now have some history to them.) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks I also moved several other articles in Category:Bible-related lists; do you want to deal with these as well? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:47, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Michigan Chem 507 Students
Hi ,

I apologize if it seems like the students are ignoring requests made by the community. Wikipedia editing is quite a beast and there are a lot of details in teaching these students how to edit that get overlooked as result of a lack of time. I will notify them how to check right away. Our goal is to improve selected pages by substantially adding content to pages missing relevant data, or completely creating new pages. However, the students do not realize that they are being communicated to through their talk pages. In order to control the content that is being added, we hold an internal peer review process, so the information being posted is not entirely unchecked.

Despite being new to Wikipedai's editing system, the students are aware of their readership and work hard to write entries that reflect that. However, if you and your collegues would give more substantial and constructive feedback specifically on the content in question (instead of a blanket comment about logistics and policies of Wikipedia), it goes without saying that such comments are welcomed wholeheartedly. The students will happily address those comments Or feel free to change some of the content yourself.

Additionally, in regards to a reference issue, many of them are already aware of the necessity of DOI numbers and are in the process of filling those in; however, that is a small issue in reference to the big picture and the improvements that their research has made to the page.

Best, MichChemGSI (talk) 03:39, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back. I understand some advocate the use of sandboxes, and only "go live" when all the work is done. Unfortunately, this gives them zero learning curve, and the "complete" article is subject to full scrutiny. In contrast, if they started "live", they would have been guided about various aspects of what an article should look like. It is easier to give and accept suggestions in small chunks; when confronted with an article which popped out of nowhere which doesn't fit the bigger scheme, the existing editors may not be the most enthusiastic. Like I was telling one of the Michigan groups, we (involuntarily?) host such school projects all the time. Perhaps we are impatient, but often these school projects end up with us cleaning up after. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 03:52, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Chem 507 Projects
I notice this earlier today and wanted to share my reply:

One blocked. Let's see about the rest. Such a shame, but they brought it upon themselves. I've tried to contact their in-charge, User talk:Ajm_mich, but it doesn't help either. WP is not a noticeboard to put up these school projects. Sorry, venting, but I'm pissed off. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 01:43, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that the students and professor erred in thinking that they can just upload their school project. They probably do not work with this medium and are assuming that Wikipedia is just a dumb upload site like Utube. They have some useful material, but it is not that great. We are coming to the end of semester for US system, so you can expect to see several such episodes.  Possibly the prof or one or so students will agree to work with us and expand select sections.  You now can see why it is easier for some faculty to have their students draft articles on semi-obscure compounds.  --Smokefoot (talk) 01:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I really don't know who you people think you are. This type of thing is not constructive, nor is it helping to better the chemistry content that is available on Wikipedia. You don't own these pages, nor is your opinion on what they should include final or definitive.

We would not have targeted these sites for revision if they were good quality to begin with, but the fact is the pages you are devoting so much time to defending are poorly cited and grossly lacking in detail.

No one here is assuming that wikipedia is similar to You-Tube, and it is not our intent to upload a poor substitute for what currently exists because we are required to do so.

If you have issues with the work we have done you are free to revise it, but you have no right to simply revert the content to the junk that currently exists because you haven't gotten around to fixing it yourself.

It is no wonder that so many people do not have the patience to "stick with it" when people like you abuse your privileges and portray such an arrogant attitude toward the validity of contributions made by others. --Tycarter (talk) 19:32, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Structure request
Hi Rifleman! Any chance you'd be able to draw the pigment mycenaaurin A (see here) to include in the new article Mycena aurantiomarginata? Sasata (talk) 03:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Mycenaaurin_A.png

--Rifleman 82 (talk) 03:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that's service—thanks very much! Sasata (talk) 04:28, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Always a pleasure. May I introduce you to someone? has recently mastered using ChemSketch; with a hammer he seems to be looking for nails. I'm always very happy to draw images for you, but perhaps he'd like to give it a go? Either way works fine for me. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 04:44, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Certainly, I'll contact him with my next structure request; the fungi make a lot of interesting chemicals he can practice his news skills on! Sasata (talk) 05:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Chemical models to change/draw
Hi, I was wondering if you could give me some chemical pages whose 2D models need to be added (missing models) or changed (errors, background, non-standard models, etc). I'll be glad to do that. YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 07:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, it would be best if you could put it on my talk page. In that way, I'll be notified immediately. YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 07:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Help with ChemSketch
Hi, do you have any idea on how to add a cyanide ion to a molecule in ChemSketch (Not C≡N, but CN)? YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 11:34, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and is there a way to change e.g. =NH- into the two letters stacked on top of each other instead of NH horizontally? YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 11:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Use the change atom key, type CN.

There's a change position button. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 17:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Err... So there isn't any other way to put the "CN"? YOSF0113 (talk - contributions) 01:37, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

If you want it in condensed form "CN", no there's none. If you want to draw it out as -*&equiv;N or -C&equiv;N, you can of course play with single-triple bonds. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 02:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Campus Ambassador Spring 2010
Hi Rifleman, just checking in to see if you were still interested in applying to be a campus ambassador in the Houston area. You replied on my talk page, but I never received an application from you. Thanks! Pjthepiano (talk) 13:27, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Equation request
Hi Rifleman... I noticed at WP:CHEMS that you are willing to draw structures on request, ao I was wondering if you would draw an equation for me. The transformation is for the insertion reaction page, illustrating other types of insetions. The process is the transformation of BOC-protected (S)-phenylalanine, (CH3)3O-CONH-CH(CH2Ph)-COOH, to its homologue, (CH3)3O-CONH-CH(CH2Ph)-CH2-COOH by "insertion" of a methylene.

(S)-(CH3)3CO-C(=O)-NH-CH(CH2Ph)-COOH reacts with 1. N(CH2CH3)3 then 2. ClCOOCH2CH3 then 3. CH2N2 to form (S)-(CH3)3CO-C(=O)-NH-CH(CH2Ph)-C(=O)-C(=N2)H which then reacts with CF3CO2Ag / N(CH2CH3)3 in the presence of water to form (S)-(CH3)3CO-C(=O)-NH-CH(CH2Ph)-CH2-COOH

A version of this can be seen at Org. Synth., here. Thanks. EdChem (talk) 13:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm on holiday so I don't respond as quickly. Take a look at File:Homologation_of_N-boc-phenylalanine.png, and tell me what you think? --Rifleman 82 (talk) 17:31, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's great, thanks... and for someone on holidays, I think a 4 hour response is amazing. I have added it to the new organic reactions section I have added to the insertion reactions article.  :)  EdChem (talk) 17:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your kind words. Perhaps you can find a way to work it into the Arndt-Eistert reaction? --Rifleman 82 (talk) 18:29, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Good idea - I have epanded the section Arndt%E2%80%93Eistert reaction, see what you think. It's an interesting example of an insertion reaction in that it is a true methylene insertion; the carbon atom bearing the carboxyl group is the same in the starting material and its homologue and despite breaking the carbon-carbon bond to the chiral centre the stereochemistry is preserved.  EdChem (talk) 02:35, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Welcome Thanks
Hi Rifleman 82, Thanks for your welcome notice. I don't know how much actual work on chemistry per se that I'll actually do, but I do want to start and fill out a few articles on luminaries in chemistry as time permits. I'll probably also contribute a bit to some of the Lotus articles. If you need some carbene pictures just ask and I'll be happy to see what I can do. AJArduengo (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Biographies are very nice too! I thought you might find it interesting that the persistent carbene article, though unwieldy, is somewhat more developed than many others; carbene chemists or former carbene chemists are disproportionately represented in our little community here. Once again, welcome and I hope you do find contributing to Wikipedia a fulfilling experience. All of us started out as newbies, so please feel free to ask if you have any questions. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 00:23, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

thoughts about animations
Hi Rifleman, We truly want to work with the community for our courses, and as we are about to try something new, I thought that I would consult you for your thoughts and ideas. We would like to take advantage of the new media allowances on Wikipedia and insert animations for readers to better understand the arrow-pushing process of mechanisms. We create animations using a gifbuilder, and I have added one here in EAS. What are your thoughts about these animations? and How can we best insert them/make them stick and for the community to accept them? Thanks for all of your help! MichChemGSI (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

That's interesting. GIFs have been deprecated for some time because of quality concerns... but PNG simply doesn't do animation. I've taken a look at the one you are using, and it seems to be moving too fast for the reader to grasp and digest each step. The images also look a little grainy and low-resolution, but all that can be fixed. More generally, animated GIFs don't print well, which limits its utility for some users. Why don't you throw the question open at WT:CHEMISTRY? You'll get more responses there, and they will be more binding than polling a few editors. Lastly, if you like you can look at WP:Imagemap, which has been attempted. Talk to about it. Most editors don't use it because it is rather time consuming, but it can be helpful too. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 08:53, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Remember the Global Economics class project?
It's up for deletion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Global Economics. I'm notifying people who particpated on the talk pages there. Voceditenore (talk) 17:43, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

License plates of Singapore
Hello Rifleman 82

I have taken some photos of License plates of Singapore one Pulau Ubin. May you help me to place them right?

File:Singapore Plate on Ubin.JPG File:Ubin bike.JPG

Thank vouPeter in s (talk) 03:50, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Oskar Baudisch
I try to get Oskar Baudisch through DYK. --Stone (talk) 07:32, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I notice last night. Thanks for your help! --Rifleman 82 (talk) 15:01, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

ref tweak
Thanks for the ref tweak at Mass concentration. There are similar references to the gold book at:
 * Number concentration
 * Concentration
 * Volume fraction
 * Molality
 * Mole fraction
 * Mixing ratio
 * Mass fraction (chemistry)

Should these be "tweaked" as well? RolfSander (talk) 17:59, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure. The Goldbook template is meant to make it easier to cite the Goldbook more easily. Documentation is at GoldBookRef. You can do it if you want, or I might come by and do it eventually. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 18:16, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm at a conference this Mon-Fri and probably won't find the time to add the templates. However, I can add them once I'm back (unless you want to start first...) RolfSander (talk) 18:38, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Oskar Baudisch
The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Free base
Is "Freebase" a common enough name for the the chemical "free base" to disambiguate Freebase (database)? If not would you take the liberty of de-disambiguateing Freebase (database) for me? Marcus  Qwertyus   06:22, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I think I've fixed it. Let me know if there's a problem. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 15:02, 18 April 2011 (UTC)