User talk:Rikster2/Archive 2

Kamie Ethridge
I see you started Kamie Ethridge recently. I confess, I did not recognize her name when I first saw it, but she has quite the list of accomplishments. If I can find the time this weekend, I might work on it some more, and see if I can nominate it for a DYK. Not sure I'll succeed, and one of the stumbling blocks is no picture - I don't know what prompted you to start the article, but if you have any connections, it sure would be nice if we had a good pic.-- SPhilbrick  T  01:19, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Sherman White (basketball)
I see where you plan on making all of the Consensus All-Americans that don't have articles yet, which I agree is quite necessary. Anywho, could I "claim" the right to make Sherman White (basketball)? I think his back story w/the point shaving scandal and ban from basketball is interesting and I had intended to make his article for a little while now. I don't want to make it if you feel compelled to do so yourself, and I also don't want either one of us being inefficient by stepping on each other's toes. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:40, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Input needed
at Articles for deletion/List of NCAA Division I men's basketball players with 13 or more blocks in a game. Thanks. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:03, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raymar Morgan
You may have an opinion on Articles for deletion/Raymar Morgan.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

All-American templates
I just wanted to drop a line and let you know that I've created the Helms Foundation All-American templates akin to your Consensus All-American ones (see Category:American college basketball Consensus All-American templates). Since Helms was the official college basketball source back in the day, and that their retroactive All-Americans are taken to be official, I thought that these templates were appropros to place in the "Consensus" category. Also, since navigation boxes that only have redlinks get deleted fairly quickly, I had to make one new All-American article for 1912 and 1933 each so that I could make the navboxes. I made Rufus Sisson for 1912 and Les Witte for 1933 (Witte was apparently the first college player to score 1,000 points, which I would have never known if it had not been for randomly choosing to make his article).

Oh, and as I'm sure you've noticed, I've been on a mini-tear in making All-American articles. My goal is to have all of them made prior to next season's tipoff, but we'll see if that happens. I'm still working on Sherman White (see User:Jrcla2/sandbox) but it's a slow going process. I hope to find motivation to get back on it soon. Hope all is well! Jrcla2 (talk) 10:54, 29 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Quick request: Could you go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball and leave your input? Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 15:07, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

2010 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans
Please comment on the WP:FLC about your opinion on references. There will be many eyes looking at the page to determine what future lists will look like. Having each player's ESPN page, gives the reader quick access to his career, IMO. Feedback will be gathered on the FLC.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that this has been promoted and you can see what they want do you want to work together to do some more recent years?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I have started on 2009 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans. Now that we know they want redundant links delinked in tables that will be something we need to get done.  Basically, I need a con-nominator because it will help me nominate more things at one time for the WP:CUP.  If you can help out, then I can use you as a co-nom and you can get credit for the FL.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:48, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Season articles
Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:04, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

All-American notes
There is a policy issue to be resolved that I mentioned at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Don Burness
Sure, I'll take on the Burness article sometime in the next week or so. I see a few more in the pre-consensus lists that are also in my area of interest that I'll try and knock off soon as well. --Esprqii (talk) 17:53, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Navboxes vs. succession boxes
Rikster2, please see my comments on the College Basketball Project talk page. Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:07, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Rikster, per the discussion on the CBB Project page, I have begun replacing the old succession boxes on the Gators basketball (and football) coaches pages as I expand the existing coaches navboxes to include full names and years of service. If you want get a gander at what they look like, I suggest that you have a look at the expanded Kentucky Wildcats basketball and football coaches navboxes on the "John J. Tigert" article page.  By a strange twist of fate, Tigert was the longest-serving president of the University of Florida, and previously was the head coach of the men's AND women's basketball teams and the football team in Lexington.  Just to keep things interesting, Tigert was also the U.S. Commissioner of Education, too (and I haven't quite figured out what to do with that succession box yet).
 * I am completely open to suggestions as to how to improve the layout and typography of the expanded coaches navboxes. Please let me know what you think.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:49, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Dirtlawyer - I think it looks good, but neither UK or Florida has had that much coach turnover. It would be interesting to see it for a program that has had relatively high coach turnover (maybe Xavier, Tulsa, etc) to see if the format still looks clean or if it fattens up the templates too much.  I can play around with that this weekend.  My other comment is that I don't like the use of formal/full names for coaches on these. I don't think "John V. Calipari" is required - its just John Calipari.  Different story with Joe B. Hall, who has always included his middle name.  These aren't heads of state, they're guys who go by "Wimp" and "Digger" and "Tubby" after all. Rikster2 (talk) 11:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * R2, with the full names, I was following a pattern I had previously used with university presidents (full first and last names, middle/first initial, and nickname, if any, plus years of service). With coaches, it may be enough to include the common nickname, last name and dates of service.  I was a little bit surprised by how many of these basketball coach articles don't even include the full name in the lead paragraph, so you may have a point.  As you mention, it may be possible that some programs with higher turnover may have had 50+ head coaches.  I'm sort of thinking out loud here, but I would suggest that we could break them up by date clusters, so that each cluster only has 20 or fewer coaches per cluster within the navbox.  See the "University of Florida Athletic Hall of Fame" template for an example of clusters broken up by alphabetical listings by last name (cluster concept could easily be adapted to years of service to make it easier to find particular coaches within their era).  As a casual reader searches for coaches within the navbox, I think it's important to provide the reader with enough of the name that they can recognize/distinguish it and also search for coaches by years and eras.
 * In the Gators football player articles, I am also including uniform links to the main team page, main university page, then-current head coach and team seasons in the text, as well as links to the season-decade articles in the "see also" section (good example: "Rick Casares"). For the season summaries in the season-decade lists, I am including uniform links to the then-current head coach and main team page in the text, with links to individual standout players, as applicable.  My goal is to create a web of links that allows the casual reader to move from article to article without a lot of thinking, thereby driving traffic on these articles.  Next, I want to do something similar for Gators basketball players and coaches, too.  I could use your help a lot with that, because I do not have the same depth of hard-copy references for Gators basketball as I do for Gators football.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI: NBA Player infoboxes
I just asked a major WP:NBA contributor if they're trying to phase out the 'NBAretired' infobox, and apparently they are. They now want every NBA player, past and present, to use the 'NBA Players' infobox. I just wanted to let you know because you and I will be making (albeit slowly) all of the NCAA Consensus All-American articles, and for those who went on to play in the BAA and/or NBA, we need to use the appropriate infobox to help out our friends at WP:NBA. Just a heads up. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:10, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * cool. I'll use whatever standard they set. Rikster2 (talk) 01:12, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Up to bat
I added an "Up to bat / on deck" section of my to-do list for my own benefit, but also partially for yours. As the All-Americans get written, the likelihood of us accidentally working on the same article separately becomes greater. I don't want that to happen, so the new addition to my list is concurrently a heads-up. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's cool. As an FYI, Bill Uhl is probably next up for me, then we'll see ... Rikster2 (talk) 21:15, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh also, there's a high school parameter in the Infobox NBA Player that I just discovered, so if you have the applicable information, that can be included too. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:45, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Rick Casares
Rikster, what's your source for Casares playing basketball for the Gators? I would like to add that to the text, with a footnote. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Here you go, DL: p. 391

The text as it relates to college hoops is this: "the 6'2, 205-pound forward led the Gators in scoring and rebounding in both of his varsity seasons - 14.9 points and 11.3 rebounds as a sophomore in 1951-52 and 15.5 points and 11.5 rebounds as a junior in 1952-53." Pretty good numbers! There is a section of the book on athletes famous for other sports who also played college basketball and I have been adding the categories where appropriate. I just finished baseball and started football so I may run into more Gators - the ref will be the same (except the page numbers). Hope this helps! Rikster2 (talk) 02:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, sir! I also went looking in the 2009-10 Florida Gators Basketball Media Guide; there's nothing in the narrative, but Casares is listed as a letterman and team captain.  Good stuff.  I will incorporate this into the text.  As you may know, Casares was a legendary Gator running back whose college career was cut short by the draft.  He was later a stud running back for the Chicago Bears.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 03:10, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Template:NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans
Which would be better - going through after each individual year that you update to Consensus and moving it to the consensus portion of the template, or just wait until all of them are done and do one big fix? Jrcla2 (talk) 15:21, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Either way. Not sure my timetable for doing them all - they take awhile  if we move them at the end it may be kind of far out there.Rikster2 (talk) 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok then I think updating the template would be best to do after each individual page update. As tedious as that might be, at least the template would be accurate. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:38, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

wtf
Can you believe this? Sorry, had to show someone else who can appreciate it. The absurdity. It prompts me to remind you to watch all of the All-American articles you're creating so that people who are clearly n00bs don't tag them for notability or deletion. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:03, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

CollegeInsider templates
I've thought about it since you've posted you're opinion on it, and I'm starting to wonder if those are overkill too. I think the articles are worthy of being kept, as is the template CollegeInsider.com men's basketball awards, but maybe not the individualized award templates. Here's my proposal – we wait and see if the new 2010–11 NCAA Men's Basketball Media Guide lists the CI.com awards. If it does, then the awards' templates remain. If it doesn't, then I'll 86 them. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:29, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I think the NCAA Record book is a good objective standard for awards.  Rikster2 (talk) 14:51, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Great source for dates of death
I thought I'd pass along the reliable source that I use for dates of death when they are otherwise not easily found. Go to the Social Security Death Index and look for the players; if they're not on the SSDI that doesn't necessarily mean that they're still alive, but the SSDI comes up with results around 65-70% of the time (in my estimation). It has certainly helped me out, that's for sure. Jrcla2 (talk) 04:32, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

WP privileges
I think you should ask an administrator for Reviewing and, more importantly, Rollback privileges. It would make reverting vandalism hella easier and you're a clearly proven responsible and knowledgeable editor. Just a suggestion.

Also, it just occurred to me that both of our usernames end with the number 2. Weird coincidence. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:18, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh and I see where you noticed that I added (MOP) to every championship template. If there was ever confusion or doubt as to why I was doing it, there is a widely-accepted precedent in our step-sibling WikiProject, WP:NBA, with the formatting of their templates. See Los Angeles Lakers 2009–10 NBA champions as an example. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not sure I want the extra privileges. I really like a lot of things about Wikipedia but it seems lately that there are a lot of things about it that have been irritating to me.  "Notability," "Original research," and trying to get people with different motivations to come up with project standards chief among them.  I'm sure I'll stick around because I like creating articles but I have mixed feelings about expanding my commitment. Rikster2 (talk) 12:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Hy Gotkin
Just wanted to let you know that Hy Gotkin wasn't a consensus All-American, but he's on your list.

By the end of today, every single All-American from 1939 and on will be finished. No more First- and Second Team distinctions to worry about. Woo! Jrcla2 (talk) 20:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I had a couple of other guys on the original list who were All-Americans (though not consensus) that I just wanted to create and never took Gotkin off. Nice work on the articles.  I'll start working on some of the old timers this weekend. Rikster2 (talk) 00:25, 15 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh ok, cool. I just wrote John Moir, and since the players of that era and earlier are considered professionals if they played in the National Basketball League, I've used the generic Infobox basketball player for his infobox (as I will be doing to other applicable players' articles). I think it's probably the more appropriate to use rather than Infobox NCAA Athlete in these circumstances. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:38, 15 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm working on Claire Cribbs right now. I'd like to do Jewell Young and Elwood Romney after, inless you're burning to do them. Rikster2 (talk) 14:57, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Those weren't even on my radar yet, so go right ahead. I'm possibly going to knock out a couple of the lesser-priority articles that I've brushed to the side for months now, but I'm not sure yet. I'm starting to get just a tiny bit burned out on these AA articles (I've written over 40, and when it's all said and done I bet it'll be over 60). After a while they've just sort of run together in my head. I'm thinking about revamping Harry Kelly and/or Joe Holup soon, for instance. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of J. L. Parks
Hello! Your submission of J. L. Parks at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 15:15, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

New article on UNC baskteball coach
I am working on creating a new article for George "Bo" Shepard, a former UNC basketball coach, here User:Remember/UNC Coach. I was just going to add a couple of more sources to the article and then put it up as a DYK. If you are interested in helping out or taking a quick look at the article, please do. Any help you could provide is greatly appreciated. Remember (talk) 13:00, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can find - I have a couple of shelves worth of UNC hoops books at home. Rikster2 (talk) 13:24, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Remember (talk) 14:01, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

OK. The article for George Shepard is about to go live. I am going to nominate it soon for a DYK unless you want to make any changes. Thanks so much for your help! Remember (talk) 13:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Article added
The Bo Shepard article is now live. I have nominated it for a DYK here Template talk:Did you know. Thanks again for all your help! Remember (talk) 17:51, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Remember (talk) 12:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

2010 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans
Thanks for your editorial contributions. You may want to post this on your user page: --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:55, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

2009 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans
Thanks for your editorial contributions. You may want to post this on your user page: --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:56, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Re: Outline of basketball
Dear Rickster,

In the AfD for this page, you wrote:

"Transhumanist - that is fine, but as someone very active in this topic my request to you is not to just create this outline and move on, but instead become part of the solution on the best navigation for the topic across VERY similar articles. Rikster2 (talk) 08:07, 15 October 2010 (UTC)"

Since my role pertains to the overall collection of outlines, and because there are thousands of key subjects that have not yet been covered, I generally divide my time between creating outlines, and refining existing outlines. But since there are nearly 500 outlines, the amount of time I can spend on particular outlines is limited. I try to cycle through the whole collection once per year.

Once an outline is created (and not all of them are created by me), I rely upon hope that those interested in each field refine the outlines related to their fields to excellence. For examples of outlines adopted and developed by various editors or WikiProjects devoted to the corresponding subjects, see Outline of Buddhism, Outline of library science, Outline of sharks, Outline of chocolate, Outline of birds, Outline of cell biology, Outline of wine, and Outline of James Bond.

Outlines that I am currently involved in the construction of include: Outline of basketball, Outline of cricket, Outline of motorcycles and motorcycling, and Outline of tennis. My goal here is to help develop a few sports outlines to completion, for examples that editors of other sports can use as guides in creating outlines for their favorite sports. But this is a lot of work, and I could use all the help I can get. If you know of anybody interested in basketball, please direct them to the basketball outline.

Other outlines I have worked on recently (more than touching up) include Outline of British Columbia, Outline of Saskatchewan, Outline of forensics, and Outline of epistemology.

As you can see, I am spread very thin, but I do the best that I can with what little free time I can muster.

My current approach with respect to outlines under construction is to add at least a few links or annotations each day that I log on. And more when I can.

By the way, please elaborate upon what you meant by "the best navigation for the topic across VERY similar articles". I'm very interested.

Sincerely,

 Th e Tr ans hu man ist   22:10, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

P.S.: Please take a look at Outline of basketball to see what is missing. Is the outline complete? Is the outline accurate? Does the outline present the structure of the subject well? Does the outline provide the best navigation? -TT

P.P.S.: Please take a little time each time you log on to make an improvement or two to the Outline of basketball. That will ensure that eventually it will become comprehensive. -TT

David Galloway
Rikster, I have reason to believe that David Galloway was a Parade High School All-American in both football and basketball in 1976–1977, but I cannot find anything to confirm this in Google News Archive. Can you use your Parade sources to confirm or deny this? Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:53, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * He's not on the 1977 hoops team. The kids from Florida that year were: Reggie Hannah (who briefly played for UF before transferring to South Alabama), Wilmore Fowler and Oliver Lee.  I haven't been able to track down the football squad yet (would have been the 1976 since the season ends during that calendar year), but this link would lead me to believe he wasn't on that team either:
 * http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=blc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=CcwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6627,7004448&dq=parade-all-america&hl=en
 * Hope this helps - is there a source out there that says different? Rikster2 (talk) 23:10, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I found a Tampabay.com article, presumably from the Tampa Tribune or St. Petersburg Times, hidden behind a pay wall; the key words occurring in the article, however, may be be an ellipsis situation where the Parade All-American reference is actually to a player other than Galloway. Someone inserted a high school All-American honor into the article today, and I wanted to check it out before deleting it.  I thought I was pretty good on Google News Archive, but you seem to be better at ferreting out these old Parade honors than I am.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:50, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * He may still have been a HS All-American - were any other organizations naming football AAs then? I know Scholastic Coach magazine and Street & Smiths did for HS basketball at that time. Rikster2 (talk) 02:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

TLDR?
What did you mean by "the best navigation for the topic across VERY similar articles"?.

 Th e Tr ans hu man ist   03:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

What is missing from Outline of basketball?
It seems to be nearing completion. What's missing?

 Th e Tr ans hu man ist   03:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Good article
I am working on getting Monk McDonald, a star college athelete and former head coach of North Carolina basketball, up to a GA. Based on the GA review, it definately looks like it is possible. If you want to lend any help to this effort, your contributions would be most appreciated. Remember (talk) 11:10, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Monk McDonald has now reached GA status. Feel free to let me know what you think of the revised article. Remember (talk) 15:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Outline of basketball
I just thought you might like to know how the article from this AfD you participated in is doing. It has been cleaned up and is nearing completion. And it looks good.

By the way, the guy (User:A Radish for Boris) who nominated it for deletion was discovered to be a sock puppet, and has been indefinitely blocked. So I guess the AfD was invalid to begin with.

Thank you for your input.  Th e Tr ans hu man ist   05:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

P.S.: I've been thinking about what you said, and it appears there is no easy way to achieve your desire. None of the subsystems you mentioned (indexes, categories, outlines, portals) is going to stop "competing", and there doesn't appear to be a way to fit them together so that they are "cohesive" (and if there was, it sounds like it would be a manual fix and an incredible amount of work - I couldn't imagine merging these set which have hundreds or thousands of pages each). But I don't see a problem with competing systems, nor do I assume they create a problem or confusion for the typical reader. Each system is intuitive enough (just point and click), and so whichever one he or she winds up in, it will take that reader somewhere.

Template:Southwest Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year?
I was wondering if you had the resource(s) to make Southwest Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year, because I noticed that Rick Herrscher was the 1958 honoree but doesn't have a navbox. I found out via 1957–58 NCAA University Division men's basketball season. What do you think? Jrcla2 (talk) 23:45, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. I have maybe 60-70% of them, but the SWC never listed the full set in their media guides.  I have maybe 10-12 SWC media guides that do list them - plus have found newspaper articles - but I am not confident I can get them all. I'll see what I can find this weekend Rikster2 (talk) 13:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ahh I see. No worries, I was just curious. Oh by the way, did you ever track down the 1981 MEAC POY? I remember you saying that it was the only year since 1972 that you didn't have. Since the college basketball season is finally here, I think it might be worth it to make that POY article/template now, even if that means we have to use "?" as a placeholder for 1981. On a related note, I am not a fan of the SWAC anymore given their terrible record-keeping and inability to make POYs public knowledge. It's literally the only current D-I conference that we can't figure out, which is incredibly frustrating. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:54, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Found 1981 - template is up. Rikster2 (talk) 03:49, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, great work. I would volunteer to make the MEAC POY article myself, but I'm currently so schizophrenic with what I feel like creating or editing on any given day that I don't want to tie myself down to something I might not feel like making for a while. I wrote three new articles today (Greg Koubek, NBA Development League Impact Player of the Year Award and Tim Smith (basketball)) and all of them were spur of the moment decisions. If you want to make this article just let me know and I'll gladly step aside, b/c I made most of the other POYs and I probably feel the same way about these that you do about the All-Americans articles &mdash; a smidge burnt out. Jrcla2 (talk) 08:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I am the same way. That article will happen when it happens.  If you do it, note that I corrected a couple of spelling errors from the MEAC media guide - Elmer Austin (not Alston) and James Ratiff (not Ratliff).  Not sure what I'll work on next - I have found blocks of time hard to come by.  I'm interested in finishing the All-Americans, but I also have interest in doing some season articles (maybe filling in 1953-56) and some current players (Kevin Anderson of Richmond, Adnan Hoznic, etc).  I could also fill in info on that 1998-99 season article but it's not one I have much passion around.  Tony should have known better than to not at least apply some of the existing format.  Rikster2 (talk) 13:52, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I made the MEAC POY article. I couldn't find all of the information regarding positions, and I am only 90% sure I got all of the classes correct. If your sources say anything different or can verify any of the missing information please update. Now all we need are the Southwest and SWAC... Jrcla2 (talk) 22:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Opinion
Would you care to state an opinion at Talk:Evan_Turner.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:26, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Earl Mueller
To save some time and probably unnecessary collaboration, would you mind taking the reigns on this article? You have the pertinent information anyway, it just seems to make sense. I know you're busy, so no worries. I'll try and create Charlie T. Black today or tomorrow if I can, then all we'll need is Mueller for the Helms POY list. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Another question, while I'm thinking of it: Is John J. Ryan the same person that was the Columbia basketball player who was a Helms All-American in 1907, 1908 and 1909? It seems strikingly coincidental that two people of that same name and with generally relative credentials, at the same time period no less, would be different people. I haven't been able to find anything to confirm it, but even if we can't confirm it I say we should be bold and make them one in the same (because let's be honest, what are the odds that they're not?). If you can use your sources to verify whether these John Ryans are in fact one in the same, that'd help a lot. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 21:43, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * →Found a source: . I'm making the changes. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:46, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool - I'm hoping to get it done sometime between tonight and the weekend. Rikster2 (talk) 01:03, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Coach navbox standardization
Hey Rikster2, thanks for starting the college basketball coach navbox tenures and full names transition. Before we go any further, I think there's one minor issue that needs to be worked out before proceeding. I started the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 18:07, 2 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Greetings, Rikster. Kudos to you for jumping on the CBB navbox enhancement project.  I have found evidence of your recent work everywhere.  I wanted to give you a head's up that I have tweaked several of the navboxes that you had upgraded (Alabama, Arkansas, NC State), and why.  None of this is written in stone, of course, but we have been following certain consistent patterns throughout the CFB and CBB navbox upgrades.  Some of these have been made as compromises to accommodate the objections of various CFB, CBB and NFL project editors, and others have been made, well, for the sake of consistency.  First, we have been acknowledging gaps in the coaching succession with italicized No team or No coach notations followed by a year-span parenthetical.  We have also been putting a space at the end of the last, open-ended, year-span parenthetical, e.g., "(2009– )."  And interim head coaches have been denoted with a pound sign (#) accompanied by an explanatory note at the bottom of the box (see, e.g., the Alabama and Florida navboxes).  We have also been consistently inserting the collapsed state code in order to satisfy some of the CBB and NFL guys who thought the enhanced navboxes were too big if uncollapsed&mdash;which we really should do that anyway for all navboxes whose contents are greater than two lines of text.  Finally, we have been consistently renaming all enhanced boxes on the pattern of "Template:Alabama Crimson Tide basketball coach navbox" (those for the women's coaches will have the word "women's" inserted before "basketball"), and we are deleting the now-redundant default sort piped command from the categories listed.  At last count, all 122 Division I FBS navboxes, about 40 FCS and lower division navboxes, and about 25 Division I CBB navboxes now incorporate these changes.  If you don't vehemently object, I would grateful if you would incorporate these formatting items into your future edits.  The goal, when we are completed, will be to have consistently formatted infoboxes and enhanced navboxes for all coach articles across WP:CBB, CFB, and NFL, and for all other college coaches.  With a little luck, maybe we can get WP:NBA to follow the pattern next, with the resulting deletion of ALL of the old succession boxes.  Well, that's the dream, anyway.  Today, WP:CBB.  Tomorrow, the world.  Happy editing.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. Not sure I know how to do all those things, but I'm sure I can figure it out.  Rikster2 (talk) 20:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. If you can't figure anything out by looking at the edit text, just let me know.  You're already doing the heavy lifting by getting the damn dates right.  I did three navboxes today (Army, Miami U., Tennessee), and they each took over 35 minutes to get the dates right.  Some of this is slower than the CFB navboxes because there are typically more CBB coaches per school than there are CFB coaches.  If you can get the coach tenures and gap years right, I'm happy to do the tweaks after you've done the hard work.  Personally, I'm targeting Kansas State, Illinois, Marshall, UNLV, Citadel, Presbyterian, UT-Pan American (they overlap with the Gators coaching succession) and the remaining half of the SEC navboxes over the next two days.  I've knocked out about a dozen since finishing the CFB boxes, and I have another dozen or so on my list to do.  Looks like you've already finished the ACC.  Great work.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:34, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't get the "defaultsort" edit you mention - can you link me to a specific edit showing this? Also, if I rename the template will it be automatically changed on the relevant coaches' pages or do I need to do this myself? Rikster2 (talk) 01:15, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, "default sort" coding built into the categories? Here's an example category:


 * Category:NCAA Division I basketball coach templates|Alabama


 * The piped "Alabama" forces it to sort on that word within the category list, not on the actual template name. Some of the default sorts are also coded "{_{PAGENAME}_}."  Both can be dispensed with.  By moving the templates to the new names (e.g., "Template:Alabama Crimson Tide basketball coach navbox"), these piped category default sorts become completely unnecessary.  Please note, however, that the first line of the navbox ("name =") must be the same as the new template name to which the template has been moved.


 * Here's a diff that shows the removal of the category default sort, the insertion of the default state code and insertion of the pound sign notation for interim dead coaches.  Hope this helps.  Give me a shout if not.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:37, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Texas Pan-American basketball template
Rikster, could you have a look-see at your basketball encyclopedia, and let me know if UTPA had any basketball coaches before 1968? I'm using sports-reference.com, and they only list coaches back to 1968 for UTPA, and the template already had three coaches listed who apparently predate 1968. Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:37, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Here you go, dl - Rikster2 (talk) 19:00, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

African American category
As a reg at WP:WPCBB, I was hoping you might wish to comment on the issue that I raised here and here.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:57, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Finally
After all these months of research and hemming & hawing, Southwestern Athletic Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year is finally live. I had to make a special note on the talk page, but otherwise, it's more/less about as finished as you and I can probably make it. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:36, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw - nice work. I have been trading emails with some of the Jackson, MS newspaper sports staff about this to try to verify if Purvis Short won in 1977 and/or 1978.  I saw a news article in one of my searches that led me to believe he won it in 1978, but it was a pay article so I can't be sure.  Hit a dead end with the nespaper guys, but next step might be to email with the Jackson State SID.  We'll keep looking!  Rikster2 (talk) 16:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, did you send the SWAC guy the article link? We might be able to help them rebuild their records a little.  I found some information that was wrong in the NCAA record book (the makeup of the first Academic AA team) and they corrected it in this year's edition - that was pretty cool. Rikster2 (talk) 16:13, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * In a follow-up email to him I had listed all of the winners as well as the links to how I verified them. Whether he chose/chooses to do anything with it is anyone's guess, but the information has certainly been provided to him. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Long time no see
Still in a holidays food coma, eh? Just wanted to drop a line to let you know that I'm actively working to finish the remaining NCAA scoring leaders articles. Only 6 remain at the moment, and I hope to have them finished by the end of this coming weekend. I'm also in kind of a season statistical leaders mood, so I may be picking and choosing among the rest of the major stats leaders redlinks (with the far away, ultimate goal of having every single one of them made for all 5 statistical categories). Happy 2011! Jrcla2 (talk) 16:48, 18 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Saw you were on another roll. Yes, free time has been hard to come by.  I'll do my man Kevin Houston of Army if you don't have your heart set on him.  LOVED watching that guy play.  I may not be able to get to it until Friday morning so if you're working faster that's no problem.  Going on a boy's weekend Fri-Sun so I won't be on-line then.  Rikster2 (talk) 23:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Just saw this response now after I had started working on Houston. I never got to see him play (I'm too young for that era) but who'd have thought a tiny white guy at a military school would average over 30 a game? I'll try to have it finished tonight, at latest tomorrow. Then I'd like to make Terrance Bailey after that. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:02, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Houston played the same time as David Robinson at Navy. I remember seeing one game where those two both had over 30, just matching each other bucket for bucket.  Houston was basically a better Gerry MacNamara.  Steph Curry is another possible comparison.  Fearless little dude who would shoot from anywhere.  I don't know how he got to Army. Rikster2 (talk) 03:58, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Any chance you'd be interested in taking a swing at filling in the conference POYs for 1998–99 NCAA Division I men's basketball season? It's the only season article that doesn't have it so far and it's a nifty reference. If not, no biggie, but you have all the sources for it and are good at making them. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:16, 20 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure - I should be able to get to it sometime this week or the weekend at the latest. Rikster2 (talk) 13:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Awesome, thanks. Hope your weekend was fun. I spent mine watching sports and simultaneously binging on writing new Wikipedia articles (from Friday to Sunday I made 10...I think I need counseling). I may or may not start to pluck away at All-Americans again, including both consensus and Helms AAs, but we'll see. I found a source that says George Ivory was the SWAC Player of the Year in the mid 1980s, but I have to cross-check with my other sources for what I've already found for the POY article. It's possible there was a co-POY year, but it's tough to figure out. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:38, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you know what year? I can go back and check what I've got as well.  SWAC-y so wacky, eh? Rikster2 (talk) 14:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately no year is listed. Here's the source . Jrcla2 (talk) 15:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * FYI I just made Robert Kessler. I didn't want to use Bob Kessler because of disambigging problems with the 1956 NBA Draft pick from Maryland. Letting you know so you can take him off of your user page. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:16, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh also, there's a typo on one of the names. It's Bob Kinner (you have Klinner). Jrcla2 (talk) 21:23, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Question re:NCAA contact
You mentioned before that you contacted the NCAA regarding a piece of incorrect information in their official men's basketball media guide for Academic All-Americans. Could you please tell me who you contacted and what his/her email address is? I ask because I found out that Chris Marcus was actually a redshirt sophomore when he was the 2001 rebounds champ, not a junior like they have him listed. I wanted to email the person (with my sources handy, for proof) so they can correct it for the 2011–12 season. Grazie. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure - the guy's name is Gary Johnson and you can get his contact info at this page. I've emailed him on a couple of issues and he is very helpful and receptive to new information.  Rikster2 (talk) 22:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, nice. Thanks, I'll email him. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:32, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Bo Kimble
Oh, I didn't even realize I removed the Sun Kings category at Bo Kimble. I'm not sure what I did there. Zagal e jo^^^ 04:20, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No biggie - I figured it was because there was no reference or source for his time there in the article. I am just doing such a high volume of these CBA categories that I can't stop to update the articles.  But I am working from a couple of sources on them, so its legit info.  Thanks for the message Rikster2 (talk) 13:18, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Elliott Loughlin
I'm holding off from making Elliott Loughlin's article for now because he seems to be much more important as a U.S. Navy officer than as a basketball player. You may or may not have seen me do this, but I requested that his article be written by someone with knowledge of WP:MIL standards. So far, no response. For possibly the first time ever, I am not going to be bold, mainly because the amount of military knowledge I have is inversely proportional to what I know about college basketball. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:41, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool - you are obviously on another roll. Nice work! Rikster2 (talk) 21:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you'd want to take a try at it, maybe your military history expertise is good. If not, we're going to need a WP:MIL volunteer to head that one up. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

College coach navboxes
Rikster, I've upgraded all of the SEC and Big XII coach navboxes, and I've done 11 of 12 of the Big Ten programs (I still need to create a separate coach navbox for Michigan). I've also upgraded six randoms (Army, Clemson, Marshall, Miami U, Temple, Texas Pan Am), and I have four more randoms on my to-do list (Citadel, Navy, Presbyterian, Wyoming); the randoms are those that overlap with the Gators' coaching succession. After those, I have probably one more conference left in me. Let me know where you need help most. . . Big East, MAC, MWC, WAC, etc. Looks like the ACC coach navboxes are already done, and the Pac-10 nearly so. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * DL - That's great, appreciate the help - especially since I know basketball isn't your main sport. I was planning on tackling the Big East next (since I'd already done Syracuse, Louisville and Georgetown) but I would say the MWC or the Atlantic 10 would be a good next step after the BCS conferences.  They are generally thought of as the "next tier" of basketball conferences and contain some programs with tradition.  But up to you, we just appreciate all of the help with the effort! Rikster2 (talk) 12:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Rikster, my "main sport" is GATORS, and I'm already way, way off the reservation. My original mission was to upgrade the coach navboxes and eliminate the succession boxes for the Gators coaches, so I guess this is a rather severe case of "mission creep."  The interesting thing about working the CFB and CBB navboxes, though, is that I've found several "lost" baseball and basketball coaches from the Gators' early years, and connected them with other programs where they coached.


 * Given your CBB priorities, I'll take a whack at the A10 since I've already done Temple.


 * BTW, I have a small reference problem. I'm trying to find the basketball coach succession for Presbyterian College, and neither StatSheet.com nor Sports-Reference.com has more than three of the Blue Hose coaches listed.  This is the last of the identified overlaps with the Gators basketball coach succession (Norm Sloan started his HC career at Presbyterian).  What do you have in your grab bag of college basketball references that might help?  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:16, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll see what I can find. I'm assuming you've already looked at Presby's Media Guide?  My guess is the 2 sites you mention may have picked up when the school went D1.  Rikster2 (talk) 18:10, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * If PC's basketball media guide exists, I can't find it on their website. They seem to be relying on PDF stat sheets and press releases, rather than a published media guide.  Can't find a list of coaches.  I guess if we get desperate enough, I can always pick up the phone and call their athletic department or press office.  Somebody obviously found something to compile the original list in the navbox.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Found the PC media guide with a Google search. It was buried down a rabbit hole on their website.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

CfR
Could you weigh in here so that the process can move along more quickly? It can take a couple weeks if nobody chimes in. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 04:19, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Kenneth Faried
What a machine. He's on pace to become the 11th all-time leading rebounder in history, regardless of era. That is absolutely incredible. I've added him to the career rebounding leaders article. Do you know of anyone else who is a senior this year that might qualify? Jrcla2 (talk) 15:32, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Not off the top of my head, but I'll poke around. He's got a solid shot at 2000 points and 1000 boards too.  He already has the rebounds. Rikster2 (talk) 15:35, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Navbox upgrades
Any chance you would want to divvy up a couple of conferences to plug away at these upgrades? On my user page I've listed the finished conferences as well as the current one I'm working on. If you and I attack this together I think it won't take as long as it might appear (not saying it'll be super quick, but I realized today that upgrading 2/3 of 300+ Division I basketball coach templates by myself will be the death of me). Right now I'm working on the WAC, and was planning on working my way from higher-importance conferences to lesser-important ones. If you don't want to commit I understand. Jrcla2 (talk) 00:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll commit to some. I kind of want to move on to some new articles, but will sign up for the MWC, WCC and C-USA - plus any random ones I come across.  I did the ACC, Pac-10 and some other randoms.  I think Dirtlawyer offered to do the A-10.  I have a business trip next week - usually can get a lot done on those. Rikster2 (talk) 01:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, be sure when showing tenures that you use the correct span. For example, Roy Williams has been coach at UNC 2003-Present, not 2004-present.  Since the years are split, the tenure dates should overlap in most cases. Rikster2 (talk) 01:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I've been doing that. Basketball has the misfortune of overlapping years, and some media guides like to only list the last calendar year of a season as the coach's tenure, so you've gotta watch out for that. I just found out tonight that Pitino was the official interim head coach at Hawaii for a handful of games at the end of the 1975-76 season, so I added the template on his page. I knew he was an assistant there, but didn't know about the interim HC status. I like finding stuff like that, it's what keeps this interesting.
 * After the WAC I'll take the MAC, plus randoms like you mentioned. Jrcla2 (talk) 02:12, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Grambling coaches
Any chance you have the info on the tenures of the pre-1957 coaches for Grambling State Tigers basketball coach navbox? Jrcla2 (talk) 23:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey - sorry for the delay - I didn't have as much free time on my trip last week as I thought I would. I will look for info on Grambling.  May not exist though (in which case I reckon just starting the navbox in 1957). Rikster2 (talk) 12:20, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

2011 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans
At 2011 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans, I linked ESPN references for the Academic All-Americans because most of them will never have bio articles and this gives the readers a way to find out about each player. This is the same format as the prior year's WP:FL.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:14, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Tony - I know what was done last year, hopefully you read the talk page. This really isn't what a reference is for - it's to document where the information on the page came from.  None of those profiles were used to complete the article.  If your purpose is as you state, fine.  But if so, please do NOT do the same thing with the All-America teams themselves.  Each of those players is notable on their own so the wikilink to their article is sufficient without giving the impression 50+ sources were used for the article. Rikster2 (talk) 19:38, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Did AP opt not to name honorable mentions this year?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * They are on the linked reference article - I just didn't have time to put them on the WP article and figured I'd go back tonight & do so. But if you want to you can.  Rikster2 (talk) 20:45, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

NCAA All-Americans template revamp?
I had a thought - would you think it might be worth revamping NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans? What I suggest is making it look like the players' AA navboxes found in Category:American college basketball Consensus All-American templates. I envision it using the same color scheme, having sub-groups for each decade time period, and make it in a collapsed state. I bring this up because as it is now, the AA years' navbox is kind of clunky and takes up an awkward amount of space at the bottom.

I will gladly volunteer to revamp it if you think it might be worth doing. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:21, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Go for it. I agree. Rikster2 (talk) 18:05, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Faried
Poor Faried... he sets the modern era rebounding record and put up numbers rarely seen before, but still falls three rebounds shy of setting his own school's record, and only seven short of being 9th all-time. Not that he should hang his head or anything, but to come that close to two more major rebounding milestones and not get them must be disappointing. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:07, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, on a related sidenote, I look like a visionary now. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:08, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Keith Wright
I don't have a lot of interest. I am a Princeton Tigers men's basketball and Michigan Wolverines men's basketball fan. My interest in Harvard is that their coach is a former Michigan coach. I have done their last two team seasons because they are great accomplishments for him as a coach. Otherwise, I would not have created them.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
Can you point me to it to refresh my memory? This was reviewed and approved in the GA approval of the article, and contains information not otherwise reflected in the text of the article. It both meets the GA criteria, and meets common sense--I'm curios to see what you are suggesting trumps both of those. You can reply here.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:23, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * We've had numerous discussions on the WP:CBB talk page about trying to move away from succession boxes altogether (in fact, several of us have spent weeks improving coaching navboxes to eliminate the need for succession boxes for head coaches) and you and I went back and forth on the matter in October. There is ample room in the article devoted to "awards and accomplishments," put that information in those sections and the navbox.  There is no reason to create succession boxes for minor conference statistical categories and early season tournament honors.  I doubt seriously that the succession boxes are why the article got GA status so I don't see that as a particularly compelling reason to keep them.  Rikster2 (talk) 01:31, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry to butt in here, but Rikster2 is right. You know darn well WP:CBB came to that consensus (you were actively involved in the debate!). Succession boxes don't affect whether an article is GA-worthy or not. The succession boxes you tried to re-insert is cruft. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you point me to it? Thanks. As far as them being cruft -- that's your POV. When it comes to those awards, I'm certainly interested in who the preceding and succeeding winners are. And the RSs report it. That's how we avoid measuring one POV against another POV, of course -- by looking to the RSs. And, of course, there is ample use of such succession boxes throughout the project. But I'm sure I don't remember the result of any such conversation distinctly, now a few 10,000 edits later--despite Jr's mistaken assertion as to what I know "darn well"-- though I do have a faint recollection of discussion with someone at some point as to the fact that contra to what they asserted, the info was not covered in the text. If I "knew it darn well", I wouldn't be stupid enough to waste my time asking about it.  I would either address it or agree with it; I would have to have an IQ well below normal to waste my time here if Jr's assumption of bad faith were called for.
 * And btw, of course Jr can butt in. I see him working together w/Rikster to improve the Project all over this talkpage, and would expect no less.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:44, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ep - I am sure I have no real issue with you personally and am not trying to start one now. Go to the WP:CBB Talk page and look at the discussion.  Or go to the second page of the edit summary for the Scheyer article - you reverted edits twice and stopped short of violating the three-time rule ... until today.  How about we try to work together to get some level of consistency across these pages?  There are VERY few examples of succession boxes being used in this manner - it particularly gets unwieldy when these players move on to the professional ranks and these achievements start to take on less of their overall history.  There is discussion of Scheyer's statistical leadership in the text, why not just include there that he was the freshman leader in A/TO or that he broke Dennis Scott's ACC minutes played record?  The wikiproject trying to get Succession Box standards don't even envisage using the boxes in this way (see here).  This kind of opens the door to creating your own standard for a succession box, which seems counter to any attempts to get WP consistency.  Rikster2 (talk) 01:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look in those places when I have a moment. You didn't make any annoying comments; no worries.  I have some thoughts in response to yours, but I'll pend them until I have a chance to review waht you refer to.  BTW -- as to your reference to three reverts ... I'm somewhat confused.  What is the time period that you believe 4 reverts took place in?--Epeefleche (talk) 03:39, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * As to your reference to three reverts ... I remain confused. What is the time period that you believe 4 reverts took place in?--Epeefleche (talk) 04:15, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * There were 2 reverts, stopping short of a third. Check the edit history on the Scheyer article, pretty sure it was October - it was on the second page of edits when last I checked. Rikster2 (talk) 11:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The 3RR rule refers to 4 reverts, over a 24-hour period. Is your admonition here ("you reverted edits twice and stopped short of violating the three-time rule ... until today) with regard to three reverts, over a five-month period?--Epeefleche (talk) 16:31, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't really care. Do whatever you want.  Rikster2 (talk) 16:34, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

AAA Team member otY
I think team member is the official term per http://cosida.com/Academic%20All-America/aaaselections.aspx. You might want to create redirects though. P.S. that source gives me complete history back to 02-03. I will need nelp with earlier years.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have added all the Men's that my source provides.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:36, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have added all the women that the source has.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look tonight and see what I can find. Rikster2 (talk) 13:28, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Advice needed
I need help at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:11, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

AAA ot Y
I did not know how much work you did on the Lowe's Senior CLASS Award. As the creator and the most active editor of List of Lowe's Senior CLASS Award women's soccer winners, List of Lowe's Senior CLASS Award softball winners, List of Lowe's Senior CLASS Award men's soccer winners and List of Lowe's Senior CLASS Award baseball winners and the creator of List of Lowe's Senior CLASS Award women's volleyball winners you might be interested in working on List of Women's Soccer Academic All-America Team Members of the Year, List of Softball Academic All-America Team Members of the Year, List of Men's Soccer Academic All-America Team Members of the Year and List of Baseball Academic All-America Team Members of the Year as well as List of Women's Volleyball Academic All-America Team Members of the Year.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:22, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Tony. I might be interested in taking some of these on in the Summer.  I will be pretty busy with men's hoops for probably the couple months or so - usually until the NBA Draft in June.  But I might be able to take some of these on then.  I am hunting down those Academic AAs so hoping to wrap that up in the next week or so.  Rikster2 (talk) 21:55, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Lowe's Senior CLASS Award
Lowe's Senior CLASS Award has been copyvioed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:31, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Justin Watts/Leslie McDonald
Please hold off of placing anymore college basketball players up for deletion until we finish with both Justin Watts and Leslie McDonald. Basically, we're having the exact same conversation in two places. Once we've established a norm with Watts and McDonald, we'll know whether or not we need to continue. Also, I've invited everyone's who's chimed in on Watts to go take a look at McDonald (if they haven't already). -Blueman33 (talk) 06:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * That's fine - I was planning to withdraw the McDonald AfD if Watts went through anyway. Along the same lines, you shouldn't create or expand these articles until we figure out if the subjects are notable or not. Rikster2 (talk) 11:19, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Fredette AP POY award
Not trying to start a conflict here, but I think the article that states him as the POY is mistaken. As stated here, here, and here, said award isn't awarded until April. Likely the UConn article inferred that since Fredette got the most votes for the All-American team, he is automatically POY. Not so. Let me know if you disagree, or if not I'll let you revert the edits. Cheers. ~Araignee (talk &bull; contribs) 02:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * you are probably right - I was surprised when I saw the UConn article. They either inferred it or there was a leak from the AP.  Just didn't want you to think I was just making it up. Rikster2 (talk) 02:11, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Glad you had the link...I was wondering! ~Araignee (talk &bull; contribs) 02:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikiquette alart
Hello, Rikster2. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikiquette alerts regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. ℥nding · start 10:57, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Haggerty Award?
Any idea when the Haggerty Award is going to announce its 2011 recipient? I know this award usually takes a little longer than others, but I'd have thought Charles Jenkins would be officially the three-time POY by now. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:33, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking about making the remaining Haggerty Award winners without articles my next grouped priority. I'm working on Bernie Fliegel at the present, but I was wondering if (a) you would be interested in knocking these out with me, and/or (b) if there were any players that you have a particular fondness for (i.e. you'd like to make their article, preferably). No big deal if you want to abstain, since I know there are a number of players on your userpage who I'm sure you're more pressed to create. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:46, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I've got some other stuff I was planning to do, but I can sign up for Boo Harvey. I might do others, but don't want to commit.  Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 16:50, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


 * All good. I really like creating historically significant players' pages, so this is right up my alley. It's also why I went on a Helms POY spree some months back :) Jrcla2 (talk) 13:27, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

CfR and AAU source
Can you weigh in on Categories for discussion/Log/2011 May 4? Even if you feel I'm incorrect, and that the category should stay named the way it is, I'd like another opinion from a person who has knowledge of the situation. Also, while canvassing for sources to create Pete McCaffrey, I found this gem, which is dedicated to the AAU's Buchan Bakers. It could be a nifty reference for you in the future, so I thought I'd let you know about it. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 13:42, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Meadowlark Lemon
Do you know if he ever played at Florida A&M? All I can verify is that he attended, but I didn't want to add the category if it turns out he was a player there. Jrcla2 (talk) 22:53, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've checked a couple of print sources and can't find verification that he played hoops there. One book says he joined the army at 18 and joined the Globetrotters at 23 so it would have to be sometime in the middle.  I'll keep looking but I've exhausted what I have other than internet sources.  Did he ever write an autobiography?  That might be the best bet.  Sorry.  Rikster2 (talk) 10:49, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added the parent cat since no verification can be found for the basketball player cat. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:30, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Abby Wambach: Parade All-American
Rikster, what's your source for Wambach being a Parade All-American? I'd like to include it in the text with a footnote. Also, has anyone on the project ever compiled a comprehensive, or even partial, list of the Parade and other high school All-American teams? I would love to include that in all of the applicable Gator football, basketball and soccer player bios. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:06, 18 July 2011 (UTC) Don't know of a comprehensive list. This was just a search of Google news. Rikster2 (talk) 01:11, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Here it is: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yMVIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4wsNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4404,2851237&dq=parade+soccer+all-america&hl=en

CBA categories
When creating Rodney Blake, I also had to create Category:Chicago Rockers players, Category:Charleston Gunners players and Category:Wichita Falls Texans players. I was wondering if you could populate them? Jrcla2 (talk) 21:10, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Have a new cat for ya: Category:Rochester Renegade players. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 15:11, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. I really didn't have many to add.  As an aside, you really should get involved with the discussion on basketball notability here.  A lot of wide-ranging (though potentially positive in my mind) implications for notability of basketball players.  Rikster2 (talk) 11:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Notability of basketball players
To Rikster and HTD - please see. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 05:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response on this. You'll note that two other people have posted, and have suggested the qualifier is removed, rather than amended as per my suggestion. I'd prefer it remains as otherwise the listed leagues will tend to be regarded as black and white, and if it's not on there will be pushed for deletion. Anyway, if you could post there regarding your views on that particular issue and then we can at least make some change to NBasketball. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 05:16, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

1984 NBA Draft
Thanks for fixing Fred Reynold's link in the Template:1984 NBA Draft, I did notice that his correct name is Reynolds and I've fixed the link in 1984 NBA Draft over a year ago, but I guess I forgot to fix his name in the template. I did not notice that until you've fixed that, thanks. — MT (talk) 02:16, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Just kidding around on the edit summary, MT. I was looking at the template and had one of those "I could have sworn I changed that already" moments.  Take care! Rikster2 (talk) 11:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Big Ten Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year navbox
Template:Big Ten Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Powers T 19:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Sheeeeeyit, here we go again... Jrcla2 (talk) 20:51, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Oppose vote
Do you mean Keep when you say Oppose. This is not a page move or something. Please restate whether oppose mean keep or delete.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:06, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Notability of basketball players
Hello, I was just wondering if a basketball player is signifigant enough to have a page on Wikipedia if they won a conference player of the year award, but never played in the NBA. Thanks. NBA Fan44 (talk) 23:15, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

UNC players
I will try my best to help out with the North Carolina players that need to be added, but I am extremely busy in real life so my editing time has really fallen off. But I will try my best. Remember (talk) 13:58, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

License tagging for File:More accurate Jeter template capture.PNG
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Thanks
Thanks so much for your help in improving the Bill Lange (coach) article; it really looks much much better. Remember (talk) 13:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, though I really didn't do enough to deserve the kudos. Thanks for filling in the holes present in the UNC coaching navbox. Rikster2 (talk) 15:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

FYI
Template_talk:DYK. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:18, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

About Basket Zaragoza 2002
Hi. Don't try to fix anything at Basket Zaragoza 2002 article because one unknown person will undo all your work (as it was with your fixed links). That happened to me as you can see in the history of the article. I gave up of doing something there. Gonzaka (talk) 15:36, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I've opened an ANI about it, by the way. It's at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Jrcla2 (talk) 00:51, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I had linked a bunch of existing articles just by editing to their common name.  But I wasn't going to spend too much time on it if the edits were just going to be reversed. Rikster2 (talk) 00:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Mississippi Jets
Just noticed the only sub-cat of Category:La Crosse Bobcats players missing is Category:Mississippi Jets players. Any chance you could create and populate that? Doing so would complete that franchise's history for the CBA player cats. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:01, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure - not sure when I can get to it but I don't think it will take that long. Work has been brutal lately. Rikster2 (talk) 15:26, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I feel ya, same here. About 2 weeks I think I made fewer than 30 edits for an entire week, which is less than what I make in a normal day. October is always a crazy month for everybody it seems. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:03, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

College football season records table
Rikster, your opinions and votes are solicited at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:31, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: 1985-86 standings templates
The 1985–86 NCAA season article barely even opens now, and that's before any substantive content is added. I think once the standings are created using your method, we need to mass TfD these templates. They add incredible amounts of data and royally screw up the article. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:52, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I'll put a message on the article creator's talk page to let him know what's going on.  This is exactly why we chose to not include standings.  I think a static table with links only to those pages that exist is the way to go. Rikster2 (talk) 18:03, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

NCAA standings
Thanks for the message. I was wondering why it took so long to apply the edit to the page. It doesn't load slowly for me, only when I edit the page. Anyway, I was wondering, would standings like are seen on this page be any better? 2007 NCAA Division I FCS football season --SportsMaster (talk) 19:03, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Tom Kleinschmidt high school years
You can get some Tom Kleinschmidt high school years content from the Juwan Howard bio. They were 1-2 in Chicago for a while.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course, if you want high level detail throw "Tom Kleinschmidt site:chicagotribune.com" into google. I do that for Chicago area guys (mostly football or basketball) who went to University of Michigan like Howard, Tai Streets and Rob Pelinka.  I might someday do it for Jason Avant.  My favorite search result is this one. Not suggesting Tom Kleinschmidt is worth the high level research, but you can find the key info in the Howard article.  FYI, there are a lot of cities where you can do that. E.G., I also do it for Princeton Tigers men's lacrosse players who are from the Baltimore Sun coverage area like say Ryan Boyle.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 10:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Personally, I never really go pedal to the metal with the google news result for a bio, but he has quite a lot of content.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:03, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I created the article, but don't have a ton of passion around enhancing it at this time. Feel free to add anything you want to it though.  I am on a run of trying to complete college basketball templates and Kleinschmidt finished off the Great Midwest POY template.  Rikster2 (talk) 17:33, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

No priority parameter in WikiProject Biography
I see you add the priority parameter to WikiProject Biography on talk pages. FYI... That parameter was removed a few years ago and has been replaced with sports-priority, politician-priority, musician-priority, etc. See Template:WikiProject Biography for more information. Bgwhite (talk) 06:22, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Basketball coaching navboxes
I don't understand why you moved the UVA basketball coach navbox to one that signifies the men's gender even though you made the female coach navbox. We've been keeping the men's coaching navboxes as is and only changing the women's ones as necessary. Otherwise we'll have to update every single men's coaching template on WikiProject College Basketball/Master Table, not to mention all of the transclusions. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:17, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I used the UConn navbox and followed suit. Sorry - that's the only school where I knew there were two while I was working.  I'll change it back.   But the UConn navbox is wrong too (and I didn't create it). Rikster2 (talk) 14:20, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There was a run-in with WP:UConn regarding this issue (see my talk page history). Essentially, the only person with any true WP:UConn activity (Grondemar) thinks his sham of a WikiProject can trump WP:CBBALL's well-established naming conventions. I eventually gave up because some battles just aren't worth fighting, but that's the history of why Connecticut's navbox is the way it is. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Got it. Guess I picked the wrong template to model. Rikster2 (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

2011–12 NCAA media guide?
I can't find any links that would lead to the 2011–12 NCAA men's basketball media guide. Do you know where it's located? Jrcla2 (talk) 17:38, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Here it is Rikster2 (talk) 18:53, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:05, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

David Bailey
Looking at the infobox, I do not understand this edit.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:25, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * He currently plays for the Idaho Stampede in the NBDL: Profile. Rikster2 (talk) 03:32, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
—Bagumba (talk) 23:55, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry
Sorry about this. I did not check the article history and I also did not aware about his debut. I'll be more careful next time. — MT (talk) 15:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem at all. Rikster2 (talk) 17:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Talk pages
I've said this before, but there are no "importance" or "priority" parameters in WikiProject Biography. They were removed several years ago. Could you please stop.

Add to WikiProject Biography: sports-work-group=yes and sports-priority

See WikiProject Biography for more information. Bgwhite (talk) 05:20, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Elliott Loughlin
I finally caved, as you've already seen. For about the past year he'd been the only remaining non-Helms All-American that needed to be made and it eventually bugged me enough to attempt a Navy bio. Pretty soon User:JMOprof will overhaul the article with lots of additions to his naval career, and then the task will be complete. If you wait until JMO moves/copies User:JMOprof/Charles E. Loughlin into Elliott Loughlin, feel free to expand the upcoming "Early life and career" section. I don't have any details about his athletic career at Navy other than what I've already written, so if any of your sources can expand upon his basketball days, that'd be nice. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:26, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking that on. You edit more on your breaks than I do in general ;-)  I've been trying to do a few articles a week, mostly filling in CPOY or National Championship templates - just depends on what mood I'm in day to day.  Totally understand your frustration with some of the BS politics on Wikipedia - as I said to you several months back there is plenty that's great about it and plenty that sucks.  I've just chosen to do the stuff that's fun.  Rikster2 (talk) 00:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been trying to take a page out of your book then, at least insofar as concentrating on the fun stuff. It's just been so hard lately with the idiocy and lack of common sense one encounters on here. Even some of the most reliable editors I've ever seen have had their "wtf" moments (in my opinion). It's scarred, but not permanently damaged, my view of Wikipedia. I think maybe I need to trim my Watchlist down once again – the fewer articles that I know are being edited, the fewer edit wars I'll find myself in. Not to beat a dead horse, but do you have any Naval Academy info on Loughlin? Jrcla2 (talk) 02:12, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I can dig around this weekend. I'm traveling his week.  Rikster2 (talk) 12:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

HS AA teams
I don't know if you are watching, but please comment on whether a story by Rivals.com saying that the history of high school All-American basketball teams includes three current postseason (Parade, USA Today, ESPN HS/ESPN Rise/EA Sports/Student Sports) and one current preseason (Street & Smith) All American Teams is sufficient.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

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Delray Brooks
Any chance you might be able to help me fill in the post-collegiate teams that Delray Brooks played with.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:05, 5 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll see what I can find. I have record that he played in the CBA with the last year being 1989, but I have no idea what team(s). Rikster2 (talk) 04:20, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Academic All-Americans
We eced. I included ESPN stat page links since most of these guys are not WP:N. We can discuss or you can revert (and discuss).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Tony - I am going to revert the edit. There is no need to reference individual players since the only info about them in the article is the fact that they made an Academic AA team (which is contained in the release.  Also, why redlink players who aren't notable?  Just let people link those if the articles are ever created. Rikster2 (talk) 20:35, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Scott Machado
I was going to make his article but I see where you beat me to it. My prediction is that he'll be the MAAC POY, Haggerty Award winner and the season assists leader - three navboxes in one (talk about efficiency). Jrcla2 (talk) 18:46, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he's doing work this year. Meant to create it awhile back. Rikster2 (talk) 02:08, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * He sure is. Between right now, when we're finding out all of the award winners, through the national championship game is the best time of the year. Lots to do on Wikipedia but at least it's all fun stuff. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:05, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Template
I see it works in Firefox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera, but not MSIE. Maybe I should talk to the person who made the template.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * This seems to be known at Template:Div col.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:16, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I just took a look on my iPad (Safari) and it looks fine. Lots of people use IE, though.  Rikster2 (talk) 22:16, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Other divisions
I saw this edit. Do you know that AA-A now is split into 4 divisions instead of 2? What should we do?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:41, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiThanks
Thanks for your recent contributions! 66.87.2.96 (talk) 20:27, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Redlinks
Hi, please reconsider your decision to cease contributing to Recent deaths. I have restored all the redlinks deleted by Jess, and will continue to do so whilever it represents the considered consensus of editors like you. Things will get back to normal, I have seen this kind of "white knight" ride in before and try to change everything. Common sense will prevail in the long run. Thanks, and hope to see you back. Regards, WWGB (talk) 02:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * As much as WWGB's characterization isn't appreciated, I came here to say the same thing. I have no interest in scaring you off the page. Tempers seem to be running high, and I can certainly understand frustrations, but as far as you're interested, I'm happy to discuss the matter further and come to an agreeable solution. I had hoped my creation of the WP:Requested articles/Deaths page would be helpful for you, but if that doesn't meet what you're looking for, let me know and we can figure something else out. If you decide you're not interested in contributing further, then good luck elsewhere on WP, and hopefully we'll run into each other again. All the best,  &mdash; Jess &middot; &Delta;&hearts; 02:58, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Just figure it out on your own and I'll decide what's best/easiest for me based on where it ends up. At the end of the day I'm all for not allowing redlinks for non-notable people to stay on the deaths page - that makes sense.  Redlinks of notable individuals are a different story altogether - they serve a useful purpose for both readers and editors and encourage valid article creation and collaboration (when a different user creates the article linked originally - which they probably wouldn't even see if it weren't on a highly trafficked page on the site).  Do whatever you think is best for that project and I'll react accordingly. Rikster2 (talk) 03:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * We're essentially in agreement about redlinks then. The current article criteria is that an entry needs an article, which is the criteria I was trying to put into effect. Personally, I don't think that criteria makes sense, and feel it should be amended. Keeping notable redlinks and removing non-notable redlinks would be my preference. The "leave everything on the page for 30 days and we'll figure it out later" approach is what I'm attempting to change. Anyway, I hope you feel welcome back on the talk page if you're interested. If not, then I'll see you around. Thanks.  &mdash; Jess &middot; &Delta;&hearts; 03:36, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Where is this article criteria spelled out? It's not on the article itself nor the Talk Page - at least not that I can see - and you haven't linked any requirement that an existing article is needed for inclusion on this list. Rikster2 (talk) 03:55, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * All lists of this nature are supposed to have clear inclusion criteria. The one for this list isn't clearly listed where it should be, but that's a separate issue. The best we have to indicate it is the hidden note at the top of the article, which says "Only those meeting the Wikipedia notability guidelines are listed... If there is not already a Wikipedia article for the person, please reconsider if the person is actually notable". This criteria is applied to articles after the current month when the regulars prune every redlink.  &mdash; Jess &middot; &Delta;&hearts; 04:03, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * "Please reconsider if the person is actually notable" ... "or consider writing one yourself." Nothing on there compels deletion redlinks of notable individuals.  But, seriously, you folks figure it out and I'll figure out if I want to participate or not.  Discussion closed from my end here or on the Talk Page.  Rikster2 (talk) 04:12, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * But they do delete redlinks already, as normal practice. Anyway, fair enough. I appreciate the input. Good luck on the baseball articles. Hopefully I'll see you around somewhere again. All the best,  &mdash; Jess &middot; &Delta;&hearts; 04:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

 * Don't patronize me, dude. Rikster2 (talk) 03:11, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


 * ...Not patronizing. This is kind of a standard thing. It's like a barnstar. I came here to make sure you didn't have the wrong impression that I was trying to be combative. Text is a dispassionate medium and can come off that way sometimes. If you feel the cookie is insulting, feel free to remove it.  &mdash; Jess &middot; &Delta;&hearts; 03:36, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Amy Sanders AfD
I dont edit much with historical baseball players, so I usually leave it to "experts" to determine notability in those eras. The usual argument is that "significant coverage" in those days is different than more recent times with the media, and even moreso now with the internet. However, WNBA being recent, I am applying the more modern definition for coverage. The differences between us seems to be related to the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports) regarding whether coverage or being at the top of one's profession regardless of coverage provides a presumption of notability. I dont mind discussing specific sources for Sanders if I am mistaken; otherwise, we can chalk it up as a difference in opinion. Cheers. —Bagumba (talk) 21:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Anthony Davis (basketball) GA
On behalf of WP:CHICAGO, I would like to thank you for editorial efforts that helped Anthony Davis (basketball) become a WP:GA.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:47, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Question on Player Heights
There has been contoversy on Bradley Beal's article lately about his height. In the draft combine, he was measured at 6'3.25" without shoes and 6'4.75" with shoes. Which height do we usually go with? NBA Fan44 (talk) 00:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm probably not the best guy to ask - I usually use the height from the college website, then the NBA site after that. Rikster2 (talk) 16:04, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

WCC POYs
Any interest in helping me knock out Scott Thompson (basketball) and Levy Middlebrooks sometime this weekend? Last two remaining on West Coast Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year navbox. If you have a preference as to who you would want to write about let me know. After a long stint helping get the WP:College baseball guys going (I'm sure you noticed that I created 600+ categories for them), I'm circling back around to the usual stomping ground at WP:CBB. I've been in a mood to create CPOYs; I might start tackling them again so that by the start of 2012–13 we're ahead of the curve on catching up. I might alternate between CPOYs and statistical leaders. Jrcla2 (talk) 23:31, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll knock out Thompson. I'd also suggest we target finishing the 2011-12 CPOYs before next season starts.  Doing this annually will ensure we stay caught up once the backlog is done.  Rikster2 (talk) 00:19, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The 2012 Great West POY, Isaiah Wilkerson, would mean that we'd finally be able to create Category:NJIT Highlanders men's basketball players. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:34, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha, just kidding. I completely forgot that I created that a long time ago. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:35, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Done Rikster2 (talk) 19:27, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

SWAC
I tripped upon this link today. It's a "pedia," so take it for what it's worth, but it fills in two of the missing SWAC POYs (1978, 1981). But, it also says that Harry Kelly was a four-time POY (twice a co-POY). What are your thoughts on this list? Jrcla2 (talk) 20:48, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Here is a little chart I made to see the differences in what our findings were versus what College Hoopedia has: The colored years are the ones where there's a discrepancy of some kind. All other years from 1988–89 to the present are identical. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:51, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Found a reference for Purvis Short; he did win as a senior in 1977–78 . Jrcla2 (talk) 21:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The Purvis Short reference is legit. Without knowing the reference on the others I'd be skeptical.  For example, there was that article we both saw when we were researching these that said Kelly was a 4 time winner - but I distinctly remember seeing references that contradicted the 1980 award at the time.  Could be the author used that article as his reference and assumed he was co-POY with Smith.  I'd feel better with a primary ref. Rikster2 (talk) 23:15, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I am inclined to feel the same way. The old man who wrote that article we're thinking of probably didn't do very in-depth homework and settled on the first website that he found with that information about Kelly. I tried googling the other discrepancies but found nothing of note. Not surprisingly, I did find out that Eugene Short and Purvis Short are in fact brothers (it's mentioned in the ref above). Hey, at least that narrows it down to only 2 missing POYs! Jrcla2 (talk) 00:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions
Thanks for the suggestions on the articles to create. I can work on creating those articles soon. NBA Fan44 (talk) 01:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Dan Ruland
Do your sources indicate which CBA teams Dan Ruland played for? Jrcla2 (talk) 20:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Florida Stingers in 85-86. He also played for somebody else the following season but I don't know who.  Source is the 1986-87 CBA Official Guide and Register. Rikster2 (talk) 21:14, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also the Charleston Gunners, sccording to this: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-158352287.html (I have found Highbeam useful for CBA stuff) Rikster2 (talk) 21:20, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've now created Category:Florida Stingers players, so any populating of that would be helpful/appreciated. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I also just created Category:Shreveport Crawdads players, so any filling in of that would also be appreciated! Jrcla2 (talk) 19:28, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Sedric Webber
So I'm assuming that the College of Charleston must have switched conference between the 1997–98 and 1998–99 seasons? Otherwise, how would Sedric Webber have earned back-to-back CPOY in each of those conferences? Jrcla2 (talk) 13:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Side note: So much for us thinking that Granger Hall was the only CPOY in two different conferences... Jrcla2 (talk) 13:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Learn something every day.  Yes, 1998 was the year C of C switched leagues so it would make sense. Rikster2 (talk) 13:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Final Four seasons
I noticed where you removed Category:NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship Final Four seasons from 1943–44 Utah Utes men's basketball team (but then reverted yourself). That Final Four category still applies to the national champion seasons (after all, the 2011–12 Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball team is still considered a 2012 Final Four participant). It's not really considered a parent category in that sense, because excluding national championship teams would be like removing them from Final Four history. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's why I reverted the edit, I read the heading for the National Champ category. I'd like to recommend we have a category for NCAA tourney champs and create one for Helms champions.  To me, there is a huge difference in legitimacy between the two.  The Helms champs were picked by a "committee"  that when you research it looks like one guy.  Maybe have a header of "US Collegiate men's basketball champions" that could cover NAIA and other divisions under a macro category. I was thinking of trying to research consensus on this on WP:CBB. Rikster2 (talk) 13:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
—Bagumba (talk) 01:51, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
—Bagumba (talk) 23:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Elton Brown
Done! Zagal e jo^^^ 19:45, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Z! Rikster2 (talk) 19:54, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

CBA
Since you have access to CBA register, and its fresh in my mind, I wonder if Tommy Curtis played there at all?—Bagumba (talk) 20:41, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Not in the CBA after 1978. I can check some of the older guides to see if he played during the Eastern League days, but that info isn't indexed as clearly so it'll be a longer process.  I'll let you know what I find out. Rikster2 (talk)
 * Just checked the EBL stats from 1974-78. He doesn't appear to have played in the league. Rikster2 (talk) 21:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, too short and went on to grad school I guess. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 21:06, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Former vs common name
I saw your edit changing Jamaal Wilkes to Keith Wilkes. Is it a formal convention? The reason I decided to go with Jamaal is that it's his common name, more people would recognize Jamaal, and the fact that he went by Keith at the time is mostly trivial. My preference was to make the names on the list recognizable to people over using the exact name Wilkes was known by four decades ago.—Bagumba (talk) 01:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * We've always done it that way at every level - take a look at Lew Alcindor at NBA Most Valuable Player Award - listed as Alcindor in 1971 and Abdul-Jabbar in 1972. Wilkes didn't go by Jamal until he was in the NBA.  It goes back to what his common name was at the time of the award, and as you can see at this link he went by Keith at that time.  This is true of Ron Artest/Metta World Peace, Akeem/Hakeem Olajuwon, Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, etc.  same thing is done for historical names of colleges (e.g. Memphis vs Memphis State depending on the year). Rikster2 (talk) 01:09, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I could see in a bio using the name that was correct for that period of a person's life, but for a list it seems only a diehard fan would appreciate the nuances. At the very least, a footnote should be added that he now goes by Jamaal, or "now Jamaal Wilkes" should be added directly into the cell after "Keith Wilkes".—Bagumba (talk) 01:22, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * eh, I kind of disagree it's NEEDED. After all, this is a dynamic web page that one can mouse over the link and see it links to Jamaal Wilkes.  But I also don't think a footnote at the bottom (as opposed to the parenthetical statement that was there and - IMO - distracting) can hurt. Rikster2 (talk) 01:25, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Those that dont even know he's Jamaal probably dont mouse over (which doesnt work for unregistered users or touchscreen users). I'll add the footnote, which is also the convention of the other lists.—Bagumba (talk) 01:29, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Unanimous vs. consensus
There is a term for players achieving the consensus designation, but unanimous is a higher designation. Why do you oppose this rarer term at Anthony Davis (basketball)?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:11, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Because it isn't a term generally used and the term should be consistent with other players. It's the infobox, the article can certainly state this and much more. You can be such a fanboy for "your guys" sometimes. Rikster2 (talk) 12:41, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * For football, both unanimous and consensus are official NCAA terms (E.g., http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/2001football_finest.pdf). Not sure about basketball, but I always believed so. All-American suggests it may just be football.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:40, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * For basketball it isn't. Rikster2 (talk) 13:50, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Favor to ask when creating season articles
While I wouldn't mind doing what you have asked, I actually have no idea how to do a redirect, so unless you can tell me how to do it, I will be unable to do so at this time. And you are correct. I was one of those who made some pages last year with the hyphen because my keyboard doesn't have an endash. Bigddan11 (talk) 13:58, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. It took me a bit to figure out what you meant by Wiki Link. I know how to Wiki Link articles, but I had never heard of it as Wiki Linking before, and it confused me when you said put the name of the article with the endash and then hyperlink the article, making it sound like you were saying type "#REDIRECT" article [ name of article ] Bigddan11 (talk) 15:52, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Rollback
Hello, following a review of your contributions, I have enabled rollback on your account. Please take note of the following:
 * Rollback gives you access to certain scripts, including Huggle and Igloo, some of which can be very powerful, so exercise caution
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Kansas City Sizzlers
I think everything is in order now. Zagal e jo^^^ 01:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

NBL infoboxes
Rikster2 – No, I have no problem with that proposed move. I agree. The junior association bit doesn't really matter anyway. Cheers for that. DaHuzyBru (talk) 14:34, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ask User:Hadi Payami. He's pretty big his NBL edits (however, he mainly edits rosters but still). DaHuzyBru (talk) 01:41, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
—Bagumba (talk) 16:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Mike Flynn
Ah, Mike Flynn. I've searched for information on his early life many times, but never found much of anything. I sometimes wonder if he was actually born in Morocco, Indiana.

At this point, semi-protection might be a little much, given the low volume of problematic edits. It would be hard to justify semi-protection in terms of policy. I'll keep an eye on things, though. Zagal e jo^^^ 23:21, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Keven McDonald pro career?
I couldn't find a single source on Keven McDonald's professional career, if he had one, other than being drafted by the Seattle SuperSonics in the 1978 NBA Draft. Do any of your references have any info on him? Jrcla2 (talk) 17:06, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * His total CBA career was 3 games for the Lancaster Red Roses in 1979-80, which probably means he played somewhere internationally for awhile. You might try searching him on some of the European League databases linked on my user page. Rikster2 (talk) 19:56, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Brian Gregory - a real life man, not a fictitious entity like this coach is...
UniversalBri says:

Ok, Let's see. what's more important, a fake basketball coach article on a man who doesnt exist, or an article on the real man who can't even use his own name promoting his ideas on a free encyclopedia? Sorry man, this isnt a facist web site is it?

I'll tell you what. If you go meet the other Brian Gregory, then you can feel free to post your article on him... Otherwise, I'd appreciate I place my name on your short list of... Make changes to it at your own peril....

Did you even try reading what I put up, or are you just running a script like a robot too consumed with kicking someone off that has ideas that your narrow mind can't consider? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Universebri (talk • contribs) 07:28, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Redlink redirects
I only create redlink redirects on people of doubtful notability. I've done so maybe hundreds of times over the years and it's never been an issue before. However, I'll be more careful with NCAA coaches in future as they probably have a stronger claim to notability than, for example, a 1960s band member etc. Regards, GiantSnowman 17:30, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I can see where you're coming from, but in my experience there are plenty of redlinked bios which are independently non-notable but would make a valid redirect as a plausible search term; I suppose we have to get a balance between them and notable redlinks! GiantSnowman 17:40, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Your HighBeam account is ready!
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Another round of CPOYs?
The 2012–13 season starts so soon, it feels like we barely had any time to make progress on CPOY articles (although truth be told, a lot have been knocked out since the end of 2011–12). I know that you'd like to wrap up the Horizon League, which needs two more players for completion. I think I'm going to hit up some of those two-time CPOY articles soon to attempt to make some real headway on redlinks. Brian Ehlers and Ugonna Onyekwe will be my first two, then we'll see (the Southwest Conference articles are my lowest priority in general). Maybe once you've knocked off the HL and I've done some two-timers, we can coordinate on attacking a particular conference? It seemed to work well for us when we both picked apart the WCC and WAC last spring/summer. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:39, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sure. I can knock out Horizon - though I haven't been able to find diddly on Rubin Jackson.  The other league I've been focusing on is the MVC, starting with Paul Miller and Booker Woodfox. Rikster2 (talk) 18:10, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool. If I find anything on Jackson I'll drop you a line. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:13, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

American people of Polish descent
You need to add mention in the text of an article that a person is of Polish descent. External links can not alone justify categorization. Categorization needs to be supported by statements in the text of the article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:12, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Expatriate, Emigrant and people "of descent" categories
In reply to your post on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Globalization:        Sorry it has taken so long for a reply. The short answer is: no, we do not claim such oversight. My suggestion is to look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography. If they do not have such guidelines already, they should be interested in developing. Meclee (talk) 15:14, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Paul Miller (basketball)
Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Research sources
You will have noticed this already when you check my edit history, but I used your user page's registers to create a page at WikiProject College basketball/Research sources. I figure once you and I retire from Wikipedia—whenever that may be (probably a long time from now)—this can still serve a purpose to future CBBALL editors. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * cool. Maybe I can just delete them from my user page then. Rikster2 (talk) 03:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Fredex50
Yes, I'd call it edit warring, although I've gotten myself too involved to do much more myself. He's clearly got an agenda to push. Zagal e jo^^^ 18:39, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

I hear you, and see that you and Z both have finally left the topic added(both AR and LT) in a NPOV. Personally, with the prior complete deletion(s), it appeared that it was also you (and Z) who also 'had the agenda' Fredex50 (talk) 19:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Revert
This is not a time to use rollback. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:45, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No joke, it was a mistake. If you are on an iPad it is incredibly easy to hit the rollback button by mistake when scrolling - which is what happened.  There is no way to note the edit with rollback either.  We've worked together enough that you should give me a little more credit.  I saw your edit and it wasn't even something I thought about. Rikster2 (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry if I was a bit hostile, I realize now I was. It was one of those situations where I had been having a bad day in real life, then saw someone rollback'd me on here (knowing nothing I ever do is worthy of a rollback) and so I got kind of offended. I did think it was strange that you of all people would rollback me, but I wasn't thinking clearly and ended up reacting too quickly. We've worked together for literally years on here (I shudder to think where the college basketball articles and standards would be without us, honestly) so again I'm sorry and hopefully we can just move on. I'm going to try to knock out more CPOY articles but my laptop at home is broken, so for the short term that might be tough. Editing while at work is my only option for the time being. :/ Jrcla2 (talk) 13:47, 19 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it. Rikster2 (talk) 16:00, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

NCAA basketball records
Hey, Rikster. Related to the Jack Taylor AfD, do we have a "list of" article that covers NCAA basketball records? The closest that I could find was this: NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship records. The linked article only covers NCAA tournament records. I was curious whether we have a comprehensive list of NCAA basketball records that would include career scoring, rebounds, field goal percentage, appearances, etc. If we do, I can't find it on my own. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no article, but all the records are here (all division records are under the "Collegiate Records" section). This single game scoring mark is a pretty big deal.  Rikster2 (talk) 17:17, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Rikster. I get that.  Just trying to guide everyone in the right direction, and not create a bad precedent under WP:NCOLLATH.  The college athlete specific notability guideline is intentionally phrased the way it is for a reason.  And, no, I really don't want to hear this AfD cited next time some Division III quarterback chucks seven touchdowns in a single game.  That being said, the Jack Taylor article pretty clearly satisfies the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG.  That's why we use a two-tiered AfD notability analysis, and many AfD contributors don't seem to get that.  If the subject doesn't meet the presumption of notability requirements under a specific notability guideline, the subject may still satisfy the general notability guidelines by demonstrating the required quantity and quality of coverage in independent, reliable sources.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:29, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Not helpful
Just wanted you to know that sometimes your "help" isn't help at all. For you to delete the templates for Texas A&M Aggies football and for Texas A&M University from the Johnny Manziel page was akin to vandalism. You didn't enter our discussion. You just did a drive by editing. One benefit to your action is that I added Manziel's name to both templates. Please don't abuse your power. --BroJohnE (talk) 06:42, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Basketball infobox
That actually sounds like a good idea. Keep the NBA one for sure but why have a separate one for every other league, especially when so many players play in multiple leagues.HoldenV8 (talk) 13:42, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Kentucky championship navboxx
Both Hirsch and Parkinson are listed as #19 on 1948 Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball navbox. Is that correct? Jrcla2 (talk) 15:46, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * According to this it is. And this guy is obsessively detailed about UK basketball (good site actually) Rikster2 (talk) 17:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. I've used bigblue before, agree that's a great resource. It's the single most fanatical website I've ever seen for a college basketball team. A lot of the info I put into Leroy Edwards came from that. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:14, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Chris Douglas-Roberts
Hey, just a heads up. He played for the Mavs in the game at the Spurs two nights ago. ;) So, i readded the cat. Kante4 (talk) 15:47, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * oops. Sorry - I am out of the country this week and the dates on the news story didn't look like they lined up with the Mavs' last game.  Guess I should have pulled up the last boxscore. Rikster2 (talk) 16:39, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * He just arrived a few hours before the game after playing for the Legends the night before. ;) Got a little burn in Q1/Q2 and then in garbage time... Kante4 (talk) 16:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

DragLink08 sock puppet du jour
R2, here's the latest DragoLink08 sock puppet du jour: User:CompDude13. He's up to his usual tricks, altering template colors, etc. You may want to double-check all of the templates he's touched to make sure the proper colors have been restored. Dirtlawyer3: Sock Hunter (talk) 12:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

2012–13 NCAA media guide
What is the link for the NCAA Division I men's basketball media guide? I want to cross-check that with each of the articles on NCAA Division I men's basketball statistical leaders, then update the General reference for all of them. I tried finding it myself but the NCAA does a damn good job of making their website counter-intuitive. Jrcla2 (talk) 22:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Here it is. When I need to find it I usually google "NCAA men's basketball record book" and it's the first result. Rikster2 (talk) 22:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! One of these days when 2013 calms down and gets into a more consistent rhythm I'll start attacking CPOYs again. I was in Europe from December 20th through January 5th on a crazy Eurotrip, obviously Wikipedia took a backseat. Jrcla2 (talk) 00:17, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * cool. I was in France the week of Christmas as well- was even to take in a French League game.  Took some pictures which you can see on Sean May, Jawad Williams and a couple other articles. Rikster2 (talk) 00:54, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Deletion sorting
Hi Rikster2, when you add an AfD to a delsort page such as you did with Chris Penrose at Basketball (step 1), you need to tag the AfD by adding the relevant tag (step 2), in this case , which will inform editors that it has been listed there & avoid it possibly being listed more then once. I have completed the delsort on your behalf, but please remember to complete both steps in the future. Regards &#9733;&#9734; DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733; 22:10, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Great. Or I could just stop caring about AfDing anything since there are 50 steps to the process.  I appreciate the message from you (honestly), but I find the process overly complex - and I am an experienced editor. Rikster2 (talk) 01:19, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We need all the help we can get so I certainly wouldn't tell you to stop. I would agree a lot of people seem to find it complicated. It does essential have only two steps with individual instructions on each delsort page but there are other rules regarding which delsort to use which people are unaware of. &#9733;&#9734; DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733; 01:36, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems like the way it should work is you AfD in one step and a bot takes care of the rest. The article is in the Basketball and College Basketball projjects - why wouldn't a bot apply the basketball and sportspeople sorting tags?  And notify those projects automatically for that matter?  Again, I really want to emphasize that I have no issue with you and appreciate you coming and letting me know how to do it correctly for next time.  It's just too many steps.  Next time I won't bother with the sort tags or notifying anyone of the deletion (2 more steps in the process in this case). Rikster2 (talk) 01:57, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes a bot would be helpful it fact a lot of people have a misconception that if you add the tag it adds it to the delsort page automatically but of course that's not the case. Best wishes &#9733;&#9734; DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733; 02:17, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

DragoLink08: ANI discussion regarding requested range blocks
Rikster, Cuchullain and I have filed ANI reports regarding Drago's continued disruptive editing and sock-puppetry. I have also requested appropriate range blocks for the University of South Florida IP addresses that have provided him with an escape hatch for three years. Your input is requested. Dirtlawyer1 (talk)

Bill Hanson
I saw that you categorized him as American. Chances are he is, but I didnt have a source cited with where he was born.—Bagumba (talk) 03:43, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I feel pretty confident he was an American playing abroad based on the first ref and also anecdotal evidence like this. But if you don't feel comfortable with the edit you can remove the category. Rikster2 (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm somewhere between "I wouldnt have added it" and "I wouldn't delete it if it's there". Just thought you had a source.  No big.—Bagumba (talk) 18:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
—Bagumba (talk) 23:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

NBL Colors enabled for Template:Infobox basketball biography
Wow, I like it. Good job. I would love to help with that. Cheers for letting me know. DaHuzyBru (talk) 02:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

USC
Regarding your change of "USC" to "Southern California", was there consensus for this in NFL proj? It seems strange, as we have common name of USC Trojans football nad USC Trojans men's basketball. Any sports coverage rarely uses the formal name of Southern California.—Bagumba (talk) 02:12, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * switch it back if you want. We're inconsistent across WP.  Football exclusively useless Southern California.  Basketball uses Connecticut and Louisiana State but VCU and UMass as well.  I honestly don't care, jut trying to get some sense of consistency. Rikster2 (talk) 03:11, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * could be an issue with confusing South Carolina as well, not sure. Rikster2 (talk) 03:13, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Colloquially I think South Carolina is referred to as USC, but I pretty much always see them listed as South Carolina in news and scores.—Bagumba (talk) 03:30, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Was it just Scalabrine that has changed? I won't bother if it was a mass change.—Bagumba (talk) 03:32, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I made some minor edits on Jeff Trepagnier and it was "Southern California," then I went to Scalabrine and it was USC. That prompted me to look at the football articles to see what they displayed and every one (maybe 10) was "Southern California."  In this case I think USC is fine, but schools like Western Kentucky (WKU) and Missouri Kansas City (UMKC) have common names that use abbreviations that I frankly don't feel are in the general lexicon.  VCU is borderline (helped by their Final Four appearance).  Not sure the common name is the way to go across the board, especially when you figure EN:WP isn't just U.S. in scope.  But USC is one of the more prominent ones, for sure.  Rikster2 (talk) 03:40, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, WP:COMMONNAME accounts for the majority of sources, not just US sources. However, I doubt there is much college sports coverage outside of US. I'll change White Mamba back.—Bagumba (talk)
 * Another thought: About the only way I could see using "Southern California" is if someone like Tony Gonzalez (American football) wasn't listed as California when the university is University of California, Berkeley, and nobody academically refers to it as California.—Bagumba (talk) 03:57, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * May as well change Trepagnier too. But I don't think your point about college sports coverage only being US is 100% on because the majority of these school names are on pro infoboxes, which do have a world audience.  I know because I fix a ton of articles edited by Greek and Serbian editors. Rikster2 (talk) 04:10, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair point. At best, I would think foreign coverage is just in a roster listing or in some bio done infobox-style? "Accuracy" may be another issue.  I know during NCAA tourney time, both San Diego State Aztecs men's basketball and San Diego Toreros men's basketball often get listed as "San Diego" even though the former is "San Diego State".  Still, I have to believe that US generates more articles that use the college names in prose that would outnumber the passing mention in rosters worldwide. In any event, I would invite anyone to do an WP:RM on the teams in question, then we would follow that consensus.—Bagumba (talk) 04:31, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Machado
In this specific article, it might be better to ignore the assignment arrows all together, and just go back and forth between the teams, based on the dates he played for them (eg, 2012: Rio Grande Valley Vipers; 2013: Houston Rockets; 2013: Rio Grande Valley Vipers). I don't know off the top of my head if those dates are all correct; I'm just using that as an illustration. I think some degree of repetition is inevitable if we want to be accurate, but the version proposed above would at least eliminate consecutive listings.

As the article stands now, the arrow is being used in a matter that is not consistent with other basketball articles, and that could be misleading.

You might want to ask User:DaHuzyBru to get involved, because he initially formatted things that way. Zagal e jo^^^ 20:03, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * But the club history will never fully reflect the moves of a complex season. Even the arrow doesn't do justice to the back and forth between the NBA and D-League when players have multiple assignments - like Miles Plumlee.  Multiple entries of the same team in the same season like that is also inconsistent with how the templates are used.  I'll remove the arrow.  If we want to try to set a standard around these exceptions, I would strongly favor a consensus discussion (with DaHazyBru notified and invited in) vs. just pulling in another editor.  E all have our own disparate opinions on this stuff.Rikster2 (talk) 20:08, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I can live with the current version of the article. But feel free to start a discussion at WT:NBA. Zagal e jo^^^ 20:17, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Ushau97 talk  contribs 05:30, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

The top European leagues are fully professional
About this notability argument. Just a good point to make. It was said a few years ago in one of the major European sports papers, I can't remember which one, but they put the average salary of a Euroleague player at $1 million a year. Obviously those are professional players. The point being you can't differentiate Euroleague and just Spanish league and Italian league (which is actually a fairly average league by European standards) and then just say Eurocup, Turkish league, Greek league, Russian, league, United League, Adriatic league, etc. don't count. It does not work that way in European sports. These are all pro leagues at far higher levels than NBA D-League, which is much, much lower in competition level. I think some editors are confused as to how European sports system works and are comparing it to USA and also like Europe is one country. It makes no sense to say that a player for Turkish club Efes is professional because they play in Euroleague, but a player for Galatasaray is not because they play in Eurocup. There is no doubt that these are fully professional leagues, same with French league, Israeli league, the league in Belgium, etc. and so forth. Bluesangrel (talk) 00:11, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I hear you. If you look, my first suggestion was to at least amend to award winners from all "fully professional leagues."  There are some fully professional leagues where every player shouldn't be notable.  For example, I do follow the French Pro A to an extent and the last 3-4 players on each roster generally don't get much coverage individully.  But pretty much any heavy rotation player does and certainly the league's stars do. Rikster2 (talk) 00:36, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes.Bluesangrel (talk) 11:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Fred Rehm
This may be of interest -- Y not? 19:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It is, thank you. Rikster2 (talk) 19:35, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

NBASKETBALL
Hi Rikster. I've seen enough of your work to have a great respect for your basketball knowledge and editing skills. With respect to NSPORTS, I can understand the inequity of other sports having ambiguous statements like "other leagues", but I chalk that up as WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS and would like to think that us basketball guys can do better. In the ideal world, I could have just looked at NSPORT and see if Articles for deletion/Petr Bohacik should a keep or delete, but it was so ambiguous with what pro leagues and intl events are notable that it was unclear. That being said, I dont necessarily think NBASKETBALL would ever have all criteria for any notable basketball player. It would take too long and there would be too many debates. I think what we have so far isare mostly the obvious ones that save us all a lot of time from determining if a stub should be created, or what to do at AfD. For the rest that aren't listed, either very few people create articles in those areas, or GNG has been sufficient, or there's a bunch of crap articles out there that nobody has bothered to clean up.

My guess is someone like you doesnt need NBASKETBALL to figure out who is notable to create an article, and you wouldnt AfD one without considering GNG. To save ourselves time, I think we should only bother refining NSPORT for mass-stub creators and AfD-happy people. I dont venture out much from NBA, aside from a few ex-college players I might be interested in. I'd be interested to know which leagues/events you believe cause the most problems in WP, as IMO there are too many notable hoops players to worry about all the leagues/events.—Bagumba (talk) 20:24, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Bagumba - Look, you and I tend to go toe to toe on these AfD issues but in many other cases I think we agree. To be honest, I get incredibly frustrated with Wikipedia BS in general - it's why I will never even try to be an admin (not that I'd be accepted anyway) or otherwise deepen my involvement beyond creating and editing articles.  I would be all for an honest effort to create standards for notability and just about anything else to create consistency across basketball articles around the world.  The difficulty is there is never a quorum to intelligently debate this stuff - not on these policy pages, and typically not on the project pages.  So the choices are to either enforce your will or not do anything.


 * The value of expanding the NBASKETBALL guidelines in my opinion comes in pulling in the non-English leagues - particularly those that don't use a Roman alphabet - to whatever standard makes sense. The reason is that establishing GNG in these cases is a total pain in the ass if you don't speak the language.  The Greek League is a great example.  It is one of the top leagues in the world - and in truth there is zero difference between it and the Italian/Spanish leagues.  As an NBA fan, you should understand that because you know that guys like Dominique Wilkins and Josh Childress chose to go there as a viable alternative to the NBA.  But good luck proving GNG for those players if you don't read/write Greek.  You can't even type into a search engine on most of the sites that cover this league extensively (Bluesangrel linked about 20 different resources that cover it - THAT is GNG in my opinion).  I have always said that a realistic NOTABILITY standard would be to define star players in top leagues (whatever that list would be) because the reality is that this is who gets the coverage in most cases - not every 12th man in the league.  That, in my opinion, is a very reasonable and reality-based standard to work towards.  I'll try and help build that if people want to work towards it, but frankly it feels like the interest is in putting up roadblocks as opposed to adding anything to these standards.  Given the state of standards for literally every other sport (notable for appearing in ONE major cricket match in the last 300 years?  Get the heck out of here) I am not interested in being made to jump through hoops on this.  I gave my opinion on several leagues that should be considered along with the FIBA World Championships in the two discussions.  My concern is if you cut the language pointing out that other leagues MIGHT meet the standard without adding leagues it will cause problems the other way.  Heck, just last week I had to save an article that was being AfD'd "per NBASKETBALL" even though the guy had clearly met NBASKETBALL - so the idea of making that even more restrictive holds no appeal to me. Sorry, I am just rambling now.Rikster2 (talk) 21:02, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I do think we agree on most things, which is why I'm even investing the time to discuss this with you. You are not the type to keep articles merely because they are your favorite or out of nationalistic equality.  The consistency I want is to only have articles that we can eventually write a few paragraphs that go beyond a listing of teams they played for or a regurgitation of stats.  For that we need some coverage that does some analysis like "this player is good/bad because ...", some stories about what drives the player (childhood, work ethic, athleticism), their legacy, other interests, etc.  Basically, a story that can go beyond what you would get from a stat site.—Bagumba (talk) 22:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Regarding a league with mostly non-English coverage like the Greek League, the difficulty for English Wikipedia is the language as you pointed out. Let's say we do add them to NBASKETBALL.  What then?  A stub is created, but not much else (I am assuming) because, still, nobody speaks Greek here.  You have a point that some notable hoops players may get AfDed when they shouldn't, but what of all the non-notable ones that are kept because people assume it meets NBASKETBALL when they are really in a second-tier league?  It's those articles that make family/friends and even me quip that WP is a joke because any bozo gets an article.  I can appreciate if you think this is all BS and choose to just edit articles.  At the same time, I think you are one of the few here with the proper perspective here to help clean this up.  I'm not going to press you if you are not interested, so just say the word either way.—Bagumba (talk) 22:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Leagues like Russian League, Adriatic League, Turkish League, Greek League may be using a different alphabet but they are not second tier leagues. They are several levels above the Australian League for example, which is considered notable. You have to understand that using the level of the league has to be based on its actual quality, and not what language it is based in. Besides, the point should also be made that these leagues (I think besides the Turkish one) also have several media sites that cover them in English, and they also have English based league websites. Is it really that hard to look up a player when the league websites are in English? Case in point to compare this here is that Italian League and Spanish League are said to be notable but not these other leagues. Well Spanish League and Italian League don't even have English websites, but leagues like United League, Greek League, Adriatic League, Russian League all have English websites. So if these leagues are second tier due to not being covered in English why exactly are the Spanish and Italian ones first tier when they don't even have an English website for the league? Plus, there are actually plenty of English websites covering these leagues. Like for example, Sportando.net, Eurohoops.net, Talkbasket.net, Interbasket.net, Eurobasket.com - there is actually a LOT of coverage just in English, plus the Euroleague itself does a lot of coverage in English at Euroleague.net and Eurocupbasketball.com And a point needs to be made here that the Italian League isn't any more notable or first tier or more important a European league than the others. It's not as good of a league in Europe as the Greek League, Russian League, United League, Eurocup, or probably even the Turkish League. It's certainly no more important than they are, or even leagues like Adriatic League. It's far less important and far less notable than the Eurocup is. So part of the problem with this debate is framing it that leagues like the ones in Italy or Australia are somehow more important than leagues that actually are more important. The league in Australia isn't even at the level of European leagues like the ones in Belgium, France, or Germany, and this is absolutely true and anyone that has a good knowledge of international basketball will tell you that. The notability being argued about English coverage would not even make sense. Since for instance that the English coverage for leagues like Greece is actually higher than the league in Australia. In fact, even in Australia there is quite a bit of articles written in media bout the league in Greece. I realize that US sports media, particularly ESPN is very keen when they talk about international basketball to only mention the Spanish League or the Italian League or just "Euroleague", but that's because these sports journalists don't actually know anything about international or especially European basketball. They don't even know the difference between the Spanish League, the Eurocup, and the Euroleague, as they confuse it all the time, or they even confuse the Turkish League and EuroChallenge with the Euroleague. It's true, because many times articles about Deron Williams and Allen Iverson in US media said they played in "Euroleague" when they did not. The truth is these US medias only mention Spain or Italy leagues because that's just there standard line they use for international basketball, without actually knowing anything about it. Truth is the league in Italy isn't all that important or good for the last 7-8 years now. These other good European leagues are easily notable, if the one in Italy is, especially a league like Eurocup. If we use the league of Australia as an example, which it is stated as one, then all the decent European leagues are notable.Bluesangrel (talk) 22:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I hope you guys don't mind, but I invited two editors that know a lot about international basketball to give their view on the discussion at the main discussion. They are Zagalejo and AirWolf. I know AirWolf knows a lot about European basketball because I have seen many of the articles he works on and he really knows a lot on the subject. So hopefully they can help out on it, and if you want we can invite them here to this discussion also. Just to get some more perspectives on it, because I think we don't have enough input right now. Especially, like AirWolf knows a lot about the club basketball in the Balkans regions and the national team tournaments players. And maybe he would know some other editors that could help in the discussion.Bluesangrel (talk) 22:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment I'd be happy to help come to a set of standards. In my opinion a reasonable one would be to create a list of leagues for whom "stars" (however we need to define this - I took a stab at the original discussion) are notable.  In my opinion, given the ridculous standards in place for other sports, this is a very reasonable suggestion.  I think we can test case this (I'll be happy to research a couple of non-NBA veteran All-Stars in the French Pro A, for example) but I don't think this needs to be some exhaustive study.  At a certain point, I think we need to trust that in countries where leagues are covered by major news sources these leagues are going to cover the stars at the least.  If this means that something like 5% of the folks who meet that criteria don't meet GNG - I just don't see that as a big deal.  But then again, given a choice between having 5 articles hanging around that don't meet GNG or having 5 notable player articles deleted out of ignorance - I will choose the former every single time.  That is just my philosophy on this stuff. Rikster2 (talk) 01:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * If we can come up with say 3 or 4 of the most popular sources that I could 90% of the time find signif covg for a player i.e. the ESPN, SI, CBSSports, NY Times (online preferable) equivalents for a country, then anyone who objects can be invited to do a spot check for themselvess and be convinced that they are presumably notable. Is that reasonable?—Bagumba (talk) 01:45, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * This isn't the same as NBA basketball. "Stars" are not the same and are not definded the same way. There are only a handful of "stars" in the whole Euroleague. Only players like Dimitris Diamantidis, Vassilis Spanoulis, Juan Carlos Navarro, Milos Teodosic, maybe someone like Erazem Lorbek are considers "stars in Euroleague. Nevermind for other lower level European leagues. So this criteria cannot work. Just as an example, a top team from a domestic league can have 12 of the 20 best players in the whole league on it, or even 15 of them. The 12-13 man of the team would be deemed to not be notable under this criteria, despite being one of the top even 15 players of the whole league. So this criteria won't work. Since it is simply NOT comparable to what a "star" is considered to be in the NBA. Sorry, but not. This would be a completely wrong and terrible idea.Bluesangrel (talk) 16:50, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

So, would this work. I searched Antoine Diot - A French Pro A All-Star (and I think All-Star is the lowest level of "star" I put forth) on three independent French sites that cover the league. Here are the search results: Would this level of detail work? Rikster2 (talk) 02:20, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * lequipe.fr
 * sport24.com
 * basketnews.net (this is the online version of a monthly print magazine covering basketball)
 * I was able to find coverage on Antoine Diot based on your sources. Is there any easy way to find other All-Stars, like a LNB Pro A All-Star Game or some category?—Bagumba (talk) 01:56, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I picked Diot because he didn't meet NBASKETBALL any other way. But historical box scores, etc are here.  Scroll down and you can click the top score link for last years box score.  Some of hose guys are former NBA players though (like Jawad Williams, Sean May, etc). Rikster2 (talk) 02:03, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I looked at Alain Koffi, not only does he have a decent French WP article, but I was also able to find sources for him, though he also played on national team.  These criteria sound reasonable and reinforced by my spot checks; however, I'm not an expert, so I'd stay neutral as far as a proposal for this league.—Bagumba (talk) 02:18, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * But technically he also doesn't meet the letter of the current NBASKETBALL as he never played for their Olympic team. But this is typically the case for leagues that get significant coverage in their home country.  Germany, Turkey, Russia, Lithuania, etc are going to be similar because their leagues are popular.  Places like England, Ireland, etc don't have leagues that even get significant coverage locally.  Czech Republic, Belgium, Finland, etc are somewhere in the middle. Rikster2 (talk) 02:26, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, I'm being easy here :-) I'm not that big of deletionist to deal with looking at all these translation.  I'll trust you and others on this, as it seems reasonable and meets my kick-the-tire tests.  And at least if someone questions later, we can at least show there was some thought and restraint put into the guidelines.—Bagumba (talk) 02:35, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Matthew White (basketball) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Matthew White (basketball) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Matthew White (basketball) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. --Hirolovesswords (talk) 21:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
—Bagumba (talk) 01:16, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Doron Perkins
He's not with Foshan. Their season already ended. Check his Twitter account. He already announced he signed with Olympiacos in Greece.173.216.233.111 (talk) 01:46, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It was actually his Facebook, but the Sportando.net Twitter. Here They put it on their site too - 173.216.233.111 (talk) 01:55, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Next CPOY conference?
I'm not fully decided on which conference(s) I want to focus on, but right now I'm thinking SWAC and MEAC. They're pretty lowly conferences and getting them knocked out will allow me to focus more on the important ones, such as the SoCon. Do you have any prefs on which one(s) you're going to tackle next? (Also, it feels good to top off the MVC, that was a biggie). Jrcla2 (talk) 15:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I'll be doing some cherry picking. Honestly, when I got to the end of MVC I just kind of lost energy around it.  There are individual players in leagues like the MAC, America East, MAAC that I have interest in.  I can also help with some of the MEAC and SWAC if you go there - I have some sources on some of those guys.  There are a few current players I am interested in creating, and the discussion about CWS templates at WP:Baseball has me interested in re-engaging in the basketball champion templates too - I think that is a set of templates that could be knocked out relatively fast (already some major stretches of years that are done). Rikster2 (talk) 16:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Hey as long as the national championship and CPOY navboxes eventually get filled in, the order of article creation is irrelevant. When the day finally comes when all CPOY navboxes are finished (my guess...at least two years from now), it will be a champagne-popping day indeed. You and I write 90+% of them. I think it'll be worth the effort though. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:21, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Input requested
Given your prior participation in a basketball category related discussion, your input is requested at Categories for discussion/Log/2013 March 19. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 18:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

That's unfortunate . . ..
Rikster, I don't know what prompted your retirement, but I am certainly sad to see you go, and hope that this retirement is of a temporary nature. Warm regards, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:45, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Farewell Rikster
It's very unfortunate you've decided to retire indefinitely, although I wholly understand your frustration with Wikipedia at this point. The college basketball project will sorely miss you; I will do the best I can without your editing assistance but there will only be so much I can do alone. I had flirted with retirement myself a couple years ago, probably for the same reasons I'm thinking you're taking this leave: bureaucracy, wikilawyering, lack of common sense, pedantic "who's technically correct" d*ck-measuring competitions, and a general lack of appreciation for the burden we take on as volunteers to improve basketball/college basketball articles. I hope you decide to come back at some point, but if not, I can't blame you. Thanks for all of your hard work. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:59, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Come back
Thanks for your hard work and leadership. Hope to see you back soon.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:13, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Glad...
to see that your back. Hope you stick around and keep up the good work. All the best, Jweiss11 (talk) 04:12, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

SEC POY question
What do you make of this edit? The IP added that Roger Kaiser was the SEC Player of the Year in 1960–61 as well as placeholders for 1961–62 through 1963–64. Is this accurate? I thought the POY began in 1964–65 but I could be wrong. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:02, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The SEC Media Guide (page 108) starts at 1965 with the Coaches and UPI winner (Clyde Lee). Seems like any other additions beyond what shows up there (or the 2013 winner) needs a reference.  One thing to be careful about is that it is possible that Kaiser was named SEC POY by a newspaper or some such but that it wasn't "official."  Sometimes school media guides will still claim that as a conference POY even though nobody else sees it that way (I haven't looked at the Georgia Tech media guide to see if this is the case here).  One thing that would help is if the SEC POY article cited the SEC media guide for the 1965-2002 winners.  As it stands right now it is unsourced so no one can see that there is an official list being used.  If you don't get a chance to do that (and remove or source Kaiser) I can do it next week (going to Atlanta for the Final Four today). Rikster2 (talk) 15:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and reverted it. You're lucky about hitting up the Final Four; if Duke had won the national championship I'd have won the pool I'm in. As it stands now I'm going to finish 13th out of 16 people. This year is the first time in my life I haven't had a single Final Four team correct (FWIW, I had Duke, Ohio State, Georgetown and Indiana; then Duke beating Indiana in the championship). Jrcla2 (talk) 17:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for 2013 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans
Sorry I forgot to add you to the nomination page after you got involved in the article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:17, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Taurence Chisholm
Do you have anything you could add to Taurence Chisholm (w/sources)? It's literally one or two sentences short of being long enough to qualify for DYK (see its DYK nom here). I have exhausted what little I could find about him. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:31, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look. I am travelling this week so I don't have access to any offline sources. Rikster2 (talk) 12:36, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Withey
If you look at my edit history you will see I monitor several KU related articles. I understand why you want to do it, but I don't understand is why your worried about a player, who is projected by many 1 2 3 4 5 6 to be a 1st round pick, that their infobox won't be converted. People who don't get drafted is understandable.-- Rockchalk 717 02:20, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I a diehard KU fan. I'm always tracking former Jayhawks. Look at the mock drafts I posted and convert the player's articles that aren't named. If a player gets drafted there's 0 chance his infobox doesn't gets converted. It will save stress and worry. I know you've been editing longer then me, but it's just a tip.-- Rockchalk 717 14:02, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I wasn't taking it personally but I assure you they will be converted. I monitored Thomas Robinson and Tyshawn Taylor a year ago and plan to do the same with them.-- Rockchalk 717 21:08, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Conversion
Are you sure this is appropriate. Players like Ian Hummer still have another 3 or 4 weeks of classes and exams left. Although, I am sure that Trey Burke and Tim Hardaway, Jr. have ended their schoolyears, I am not sure about Phil Pressey because I don't know the Mizzou calendar. I am pretty sure Princeton is not the only school that has exams until the end of May.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:04, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should automatically convert current year college players. A lot of players go pro in something other than sports. Take a guy like Rob Pelinka. We shouldn't automatically convert an NCAA template to a BB Bio template. P.S. you are conspicuously absent at Deletion_review/Log/2013_May_5.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:39, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Looking at the team I do the most work for, although a rising underclassman with lots of time left to blossom, I would estimate it is fairly likely that Spike Albrecht goes pro in something other than sports. possibly Jon Horford too.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:02, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Progress
What do ya know, an entire season's worth of CPOY articles finished! Never thought we'd see the day. How is your motivation level for new article creations? I feel like we're at a good spot right now to burn through some much-needed (but often neglected) articles. We could easily knock out the remaining Robert V. Geasey Trophy winners if we put out minds to it. Or, if you don't want to commit to any one group of players, creating random CPOYs from whichever conference fancies you that day would also be fine. I might work on Big South a little bit, but I'm not sure yet. Okay enough rambling. Thoughts? Jrcla2 (talk) 21:46, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been looking at "double template" guys - note Ron Ellis who finished a draft template and was also a CPOY. I think Marcus Kennedy is my next move.  After that, I am open to maybe taking on 2011-12.  I have a few other potential NBA drafttees on the radar too. Rikster2 (talk) 02:09, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Here's a double template guy, in case you're interested: Bubba Jennings. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

1985-86 season
Hi Rikster, I saw that you created the page for the 1985–86 NCAA Division I men's basketball season. I was wondering if you know the start and/or end dates of the regular season for that season, or where I could find more information on the season? Thanks.Hoops gza (talk) 03:03, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * not sure when it started, but the championship game was played on March 31, 1986. I can check my sources.  One that might help is the ESPN College Basketball Encyclopedia, much of which is online at Google Books. Rikster2 (talk) 02:17, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll check out the book. I would appreciate it if you could check your sources.Hoops gza (talk) 16:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Luke Martin
I shall. I haven't bothered with it before cause it is just a messed up list. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 03:30, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * LOL! Glad it's not just me! Rikster2 (talk) 12:00, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. DaHuzyBru (talk) 04:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Rikster2 (talk) 12:00, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, no worries. DaHuzyBru (talk) 14:11, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Photo you took
I'm in the midst of creating Aron Stewart's article, and I found you took back in January. Is the African-American man second to the right (in the checkered jacket) Stewart? It kind of looks like him when comparing it to his DraftReview photo. If it is him, I was going to crop the original so that a pic of Stewart can go on his article. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:24, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No, that's actually Johnny Newman. Stewart wasn't there.  The guy on the far right is Johnny Moates, though, if you want to use it for his article. Rikster2 (talk) 18:49, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

College playing years
R2, I just saw this edit:. Prior to the 1970s, the NCAA did not permit freshman to participate in intercollegiate athletics as a member of a varsity team. The was true of baseball, basketball, football, swimming and most other NCAA sports. So, the question is, do we or don't we include the non-varsity freshman year in the infobox and/or college career text when describing the years athletes were active in college? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:32, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't. Keller started as a soph in 64-65, and also 65-66 sand 66-67 as a junior/senior according to the 2012-13 UF media guide (page 161). That is a varsity college career spanning from Fall, 1964 to Spring, 1967 (or 1964-1967).  The college years in the infobox reflect playing years since the real question people ask (and colleges verify in their media guides which is a key reason ) is "when did that guy play there, what teams was he on?" Rikster2 (talk) 17:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Kyle Hines
I don't really know enough about him to offer an informed opinion, but I applied pending changes protection to slow things down. He definitely wasn't on the Lakers. Zagal e jo^^^ 00:52, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Not bad
By my count, 16 players were selected in the 2013 NBA Draft whose article you or me created. Most of those are yours – nice preemptive work. I think there were a total of 4 or 5 draftees who needed articles on the spot, which is way less than an average year. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:28, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, those draft night articles are tricky because they often never get fleshed out correctly. I missed on Vander Blue and Jackie Carmichael, but overall was pretty good at predicting who would go.  I knew Ryan Kelly would be drafted, but couldn't bring myself to creating that article. Rikster2 (talk) 14:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure if he would or not - he seemed borderline. I was thinking of creating Erik Murphy since DL didn't do it, but again, didn't want to waste my time on an iffy prospect. Nonetheless we nailed a lot of them - our best draft year yet. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:00, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Seth Curry
I reverted back to an older version, and semi-protected it. Zagal e jo^^^ 18:26, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Brock Gillespie
I semi-protected it for a month. If problems continue, let me know. I'm not sure what's going on with that page. I see that the IP blanked the message you gave him. As you said, some of the changes are clearly wrong. Zagal e jo^^^ 02:00, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Oh, wow. I just noticed - US House of Representatives? Interesting. Zagal e jo^^^ 02:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * LOL, looking at the edit history there was another USHOR IP used to make the same sort of edits. Same guy I am sure.  Honestly, I have seen this kind of edit pattern before (usually by the player or their agent) in cases where the player is trying to substatntiate a citizenship claim in a foreign league so they don't count against the club's import number, to appear younger or to "erase" a stop which may have had an unpleasant end.  Not sure what is going on here, but there has been a lot of exaggeration about the guy's career that I have started to remove.  Honestly, now that his Bobcats and Liga ACB stints have proven to only be in the preseason he may not even be notable.  If I get time I'll try to improve the article.  It needs a lot of help and apparently verification. Rikster2 (talk) 11:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposal to start a women's basketball task force
I'm very interested in improving coverage of women's basketball. I thought briefly about forming a Wikiproject, but while researching, realized that a task force would be ideal. There are two major advantages of a task force over a Wikiproject. First is that the task force can leave some of the bureaucracy to the parent Wikiproject. Second, and possibly more important, is that a task force can have more than one parent Wikiproject. While WikiProject Basketball is an obvious parent, so is WikiProject Women's sport, and the task force may be able to draw from both.

According to this process for starting a task force, the first thing to do is gather consensus, so I am sending this to some editors who have been active in editing relevant articles. If there is sufficient interest, I'll take a first stab at filling out the task force template and creating a draft task force page.

At this point, all I need is an answer to two questions:
 * 1) I would (or would not) be interested in being part of a task force to improve the coverage of women's basketball
 * 2) I think a different approach would be better (followed by alternative).-- SPhilbrick  (Talk)  11:56, 26 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello, thanks for reaching out. First, I would be interested in helping though I am not sure what kind of time commitment I could commit to for a variety of reasons - but the spirit is willing.  Second, I do think a task force makes sense, though it feels like there are connections to WP:College basketball and WP:NBA (WNBA) as well as those projects you mention.  Not sure if there is a structure better than task force with this being the case, but I think a formal working group editors can sign up for is a good step. Rikster2 (talk) 15:05, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I hadn't realized that there was a WNBA task force, but I see it now. Will reach out to them.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  21:50, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Basketball/Women's basketball has been created. I haven't yet added it to the Wikiproject pages, but will do that, however, I wanted to let you know it exists, and has some suggested tasks. SPhilbrick  (Talk)  19:15, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

SoCon
If you're ever feeling inspired to write a CPOY article but don't have any particular desire for a player or conference, I'd appreciate help on wrapping up Winters and Nesbitt for the SoCon. The same way you experienced burnout with the MVC is what I'm feeling with this one. If not, seriously no big deal, they'll get done eventually. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 14:09, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Let me see what I can do - I had thought about doing Winters before so I can at least take that one on. Problem is I haven't had many blocks of uninterrupted time for article creation lately.  I personally like to do them in one shot vs. over time.  I'll take a look this weekend.  Good work knocking those out - it is/was a big list. Rikster2 (talk) 15:08, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. As you can tell I've been on a Davidson kick lately...probably because I discovered Boydson Baird's Davidson navbox was never put on his article and he was also a W&M coach. I've also been toying with the idea of making coaches' articles from random schools where they appear on 2 or 3 navboxes from that same school. It's a very efficient way of reducing template redlinks across multiple sports' WikiProjects. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:21, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Basketball
Not that I care to defend my edits, being the category sorting somewhat irrelevant, but I don't understand why "1956 birth" should be more important than "Basketball players from Ohio". I thought that categories were sorted by relevance, not by mere alphabetical order. At least is what happens a bit everywhere... -- SERGIO  aka the Black Cat 14:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no mandate on how categories are sorted. But your idea of importance and someone elses' will always be different, which is why alphabetization has become the standard (though informal) for basketball articles (as well as some other projects). Attempts to gain consensus on order of categories across Wikipedia have gone nowhere. But I will say that from my experience year of birth and years of death (or "Living People") are the most common categories that appear at the top across Wikipedia. Rikster2 (talk) 14:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I understand what you mean. Probably alphabetical order is the only one "objective" and not questionable type of sorting whereas there will always be someone who questions any else "relevance" order. -- SERGIO  aka the Black Cat 19:03, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Flags
Why isn't it ok to use flagicons? In articles like 2013–14 FIBA EuroChallenge it is used as well to show from which country a team is. It is also used at other Wikipedia's (Dutch, German) and it makes it a lot easier to see where a player has played in his career. You don't have to look up the page of every team the player has played for to know it, when you see the flags. I don't see the difference in adding flagicons in articles of international tournaments and adding in player pages: they both show where the club is from. --Harryhurry (talk) 17:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC) harryhurry
 * MOS:FLAG - "Generally, flag icons should not be used in infoboxes, even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they are unnecessarily distracting and give undue prominence to one field among many." Additionally, there have been multiple discussions about flag use on the various basketball projects (WP:Basketball and WP:National Basketball Association) as well.  When you create an article, you should look to NBA articles as the formatting standard.  These articles are the most frequently maintained and all professional basketball articles should be following the same format. Rikster2 (talk) 18:33, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I made the flagicons smaller to avoid visual distraction. ''Flag icons should only be inserted in infoboxes in those cases where they convey information in addition to the text. '' In this case they give relevant information about the text. NBA players play their whole career in the NBA, while European basketball players play in multiple countries in their career, so there is no need to use flagicons on those pages. For European players it is neccessary to use flags, otherwise someone has to look at all the pages of teams he played for to know if he played in multiple leagues or not. European clubs change their name every 5 years or so, which makes it very hard to really get insight in a players career.

So again, the flagicons were small (15px) to avoid distraction and in this case they give very usefull information about a player and his career. --Harryhurry (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2013 (UTC)


 * This is the consensus for flags on Engliish Wikipedia per WP:NBA and WP:Basketball. I'm not saying your reasons aren't valid (though I don't necessarily agree - I think too many flags looks tacky), but if you want to try and change the standard you should propose it at one of those projects.  Until that consensus/standard changes I will keep upholding it, because my primary interest is consistency. Rikster2 (talk) 20:28, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Possible mass TfD
I'm toying with the idea of nominating Category:American college basketball retired number navigational boxes and all of its templates for mass deletion (exceptions are the Houston and Kent State ones, which can just be re-categorized into their respective program categories). I don't see the utility in these and they seem like clutter. Is this something you think I should go forward with? Jrcla2 (talk) 19:11, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Addendum: I'd nominate the football ones too, for sake of fairness and also to get rid of Category:American college sports retired number navigational boxes, which would encourage recreation of the college basketball templates. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm all for it, just depends on if you want to get WP:CBB and WP:CFB feedback first. I think the idea was put out there to combine these with the program navboxes - which I liked but seem to recall somebody wanted them gone altogether.  I can go either way. Rikster2 (talk) 19:15, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Kind of funny to see Kent State on there (and App State for football). I guess these kind of lend themselves to fancruftery. Rikster2 (talk) 19:16, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The CBB and CFB project talk pages have been pretty hard to come by responses all summer long. I think I might mass-nominate them and then just post a link to each talk page with the discussion. If it turns out people want to keep them, then that's fine if that's what the consensus is. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:23, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Josh Akognon
Did you look at the bottom of the page?!?! It says that he signed with the Grizzlies Does it not?? I gave a reliable source and I don't understand the need to change it. Please write me back, Miamiheat631 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miamiheat631 (talk • contribs) 17:24, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Why does that site say that he signed if he isn't on the roster? That is obviously a reliable site as Wikipedia uses it a lot.

How come everyone in Training Camp last year was on the roster? This site shows that everyone on the Grizzlies last year was on their roster. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miamiheat631 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

And also, how come he is on the roster on the Memphis Grizzlies Wikipedia RosterMiamiheat631 (talk) 23:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)miamihea631

There is a source on the bottom of the page. I don't care if he's not on the official roster, he's on the team. miamiheat631Miamiheat631 (talk) 00:07, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Akognon, he is now on the official Grizzlies roster, so I did make the change on his page.Miamiheat631 (talk) 17:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)miamiheat631Miamiheat631 (talk) 17:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Lamont Jones
Sorry, thought I'd try.

I just don't understand why sources say he signed if he didn't Please write back, Miamiheat631 (talk)miamiheat631Miamiheat631 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry
Fair Enough. I'm sorry for any frustration I've caused.Miamiheat631 (talk) 18:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC) One more question, how do you pronounce that guy's name because I have been saying Uh-kog-nawn but I'm not sure that's right.

Alphabetization
I disagree with this per APA official standards, but I don't care enough to debate it. Bigger fish to fry on Wikipedia. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:08, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, I didn't mean for that fish to fry comment to come off as snarky, I really do just mean some things aren't worth "being right" or "wrong" about. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:22, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand some things aren't worth being right or wrong about (notice I stopped changing Larkin and Green from "co-MVPs"). I do read that link to be referring to the "first" word of a string. At the end of the day, though following some rule other than just straight "what does the category literally say" just opens up to different interpretations.  Why is that better than, say, prioritizing place of birth or nationality as the first category because it's "most important?"  That is a judgment call too. Maybe it isn't possible to have a non-judgmental category structure. Rikster2 (talk) 14:36, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Semi-pro teams
Yeah no doubt, but for example; NBL players play in the SBL, QBL, SEABL during the off-season for example and these league's are all 2nd tier. And typically, these teams aren't added to the previous teams (just in general; I haven't been on wikipedia for that long but if you check most players, they don't have those semi-pro teams listed). And for example, lets say a player starts playing locally in the SBL in 2002 and they then became a DP (or sign a full contract) for the Wildcats in 2004, their "career" really didn't start until 2004. For Brad Williamson, he hasn't played professionally since 2010–11 (Ipswich Force 2011, Rockhampton Rockets 2012, Rockhampton Rockets 2013). DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:34, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * But I genuinely don't mind though. It's just an effort because if you want to add the semi-pro teams in, changing "years1/team1" may take a while if a certain player has played in the off-season every off-season since going pro. DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:37, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Toure Murry
Hey, do you reckon Toure Murry should be moved to "Toure' Murry"? His full name has Toure' and so does the name above the infobox? DaHuzyBru (talk) 08:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Mark Sanford (basketball)
I'm tempted to just stub the whole thing. Some of the material seems to be correct, but other claims raise eyebrows, and some things just don't make sense. On top of that, a lot of the writing is pretty messy.

It's possible that he was hired as the Grizzlies' assistant video coordinator - that sort of hiring might not be publicized at all until the next media guide comes out - but we do need something to verify the claim. I'll try to talk to the main contributor. Zagal e jo^^^ 04:22, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't really see much hope for the article as it is. The only reason I hesitate to stub it myself is that I don't want to be roped into the rewrite efforts. Zagal e jo^^^ 00:41, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Chicago bball players
I can understand not needing such a category for Portland, but Chicago is a different story. Chicago is a much larger city and a considerably higher proportion of professional basketball players come from it. I can easily imagine someone being interested in knowing what basketball players come from Chicago.Hoops gza (talk) 16:19, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

I was hoping that we could limit it to three cities: Chicago, NYC and LA. :/Hoops gza (talk) 16:31, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Your nomination should then be changed to upmerge to parent cats, not delete.Hoops gza (talk) 17:51, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

College basketball seasons
Rikster, I see that you are the one who found out the start and end dates of the regular seasons for Division I play in 1979-80, 1980-81 and 1981-82. Do you have any recollection of where you were able to obtain this information?Hoops gza (talk) 16:41, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Do a Google archive search and set the date parameters for 10/1 to 12/1. Rikster2 (talk) 16:46, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

EuroLeague
Hey, seems odd and hilarious to me, but whatever! Never heard of such... Kante4 (talk) 16:23, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Talk:George Zidek
Hello - since you last commented at this RM, I reported some input from the subject himself:. Please feel free to consider that input in the context of the overall discussion. Dohn joe (talk) 17:37, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Statsheet.com blacklist?
A pre-modern-Internet article I sourced using statsheet.com (1997–98 Western Michigan Broncos men's basketball team) was flagged as using blacklisted sites. I noticed you attempted to remove statsheet.com from the blacklist, but those attempts didn't appear to be successful. Do you have any other ideas on what to do? Looking at a sample link from that article, there doesn't appear to be anything spammy about it. — X96lee15 (talk) 15:23, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Someone affiliated with the site spammed a number of articles in what appeared to be an attempt to promote some of their team-specific sub-sites. It was years ago and it's ridiculous that the site is still blacklisted.  I've tried twice to get it off the blacklist.  If you make the request I'd be happy to second it.  Maybe a different voice would be the trick. Rikster2 (talk) 01:10, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd join in, too. I think it's a valuable website. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Help a university student edit a wikipedia article about Chris Smith!
Hi Rikster2!

I'm Dan. I go to Cornell University, and one of my assignments for my class is to improve a Wikipedia article. My group members chose Chris Smith (basketball, born 1987), as you can see on that article's talk page. One of the elements of the assignment is to have a meaningful interaction with a few Wikipedia members who have edited the page. Is it ok if we edit the page and message you for guidance? Would you mind adding that page to your watchlist (if it is not on there already!) so you can help us out with this project? It would be much appreciated!

-FingersInFood (talk) 03:40, 26 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FingersInFood (talk • contribs)

Article trade?
There are only four Big South POYs left. I do have some passion behind creating Eric Burks, so I'll claim him. I asked User:Harryhurry if he'd like to knock out Joe Spinks (two-time DBL MVP). That leaves Kevin Martin and Jason Williams. Would you be interested in trading two-for-two, i.e. you create those articles and I'll create two championship team navbox player articles? Jrcla2 (talk) 13:11, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Let me think about it. I don't have any particular interest in either and they both look like they'd be a pain in the ass to research (since they each share their name with more well known basketball players).  I had a few others scoped out to take on next, but I might be willing to switch streams if it looks like I can come up with decent background on them. Rikster2 (talk) 18:12, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This might be one of those instances where we'll have to ping Cbl62 for help. He's always been good at historical research. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:20, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Tell you what - I'll commit to Martin - I found enough to go on in his case. Let me look into Williams a little more before I commit to that one. Rikster2 (talk) 21:40, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've got some links for Martin resources on my user page as well. Jrcla2 (talk) 23:13, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, one of those articles led me to this, which has his birthdate. Do you want to pick up Casey Sanders?  I think he's the last Duke redlink on their championship templates. That's not one I want to do ;-) Rikster2 (talk) 00:15, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha I understand. Yep I'll sign up for Sanders. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:20, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Spinks
Why call out two specific honors among many? That's selectively choosing what should go in the highlights section. Who's to say being a six-time Dutch League champion or four-time All-DBL selection shouldn't be in there also? Jrcla2 (talk) 13:26, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, I added them. The infobox has some standards, but first team All-League and championships are among them.  I don't see why appropriate honors wouldn't be added to the infobox - it is part of what it is for.  A list in the article has a lower threshold and may contain more honors, but it doesn't mean the relevant ones aren't shown in the infobox (see J. J. Redick and many others for examples).  If there is 100% overlap between the 2 lists, I would question why such a list is in the article instead of prose describing the performance, not why they are in the infobox.  I've deleted many lists of teams that were duplicative with the infobox list. Rikster2 (talk) 15:02, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree, my main issue was deciding to just include MVP honors. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:03, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't pick that up from your edit summary. Probably my mistake. Rikster2 (talk) 18:44, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Removing templates
I will do the Knicks momentarily.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:42, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Ddiamond77
Can you watch the edits of the user Ddiamond77? They are making tons of wrong edits to the infoboxes. I try to fix them, but it's way too many. They also change the names of the players on articles to incorrect names - they did it several times.Bluesangrel (talk) 12:10, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The same user is also changing the years of that players played with teams to incorrect years in many numerous cases. I am trying to fix it, but its too much to go through since it is done in so many cases.Bluesangrel (talk) 12:25, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Give me an example article where he has done this recently and I will put a final warning on his page. Looks like he's been warned several times so he's close to block. Rikster2 (talk) 12:26, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, like he changed the name of Kosta Koufos for no explanation to Kostas Koufos I realize the Greek version is Kostas, but the direct version is Kosta, so as an American it would be Kosta. No reason to change that as that is clearly his name. I don't want anyone blocked. But he needs to cool it. He changed the Alexandreio Melathron article name also to Nick Galis Hall. Which the actual court was named to Nick Galis Gall as far as I know, but not the actual building itself, so that would also be an incorrect article rename. On the player's article's he is just making honest mistakes I think but he's doing tons of them. I don't think any of the edits are intentionally bad, the name changes are understandable, but they are all wrong though, that's the problem. It's not meant to be bad, it's good faith, but it's just a lot to go back and correct for other editors.Bluesangrel (talk) 12:35, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you should talk to him on his talk page and explain what he did wrong. He is probably just doesn't know what he is doing yet, but if experienced editors help him learn maybe he'll get better.  Rikster2 (talk) 12:54, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I will try to, but he's doing so many edits, that I doubt I could keep up with it.Bluesangrel (talk) 01:33, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, the editor is continuing to do the same things over and over and doing it on lots of articles, the football ones also. I and numerous other editors have asked them not to and they keep doing it. I don't know why, but it's always the same exact types of edits, moving articles to incorrect names for football and basketball players, and for some arenas of football and basketball teams, and then changing years played or coached for football and basketball players and coaches to years they were not actually in those clubs. I am not sure why the editor insists on doing this.Bluesangrel (talk) 01:26, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can talk to them?Bluesangrel (talk) 01:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

NBA Player Infobox direct cites
Hi, how do you directly cite height and weight fields in the infobox? See Jimmie Baker (basketball) to see the problem I was having. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 09:31, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not a fan of citing data in the infobox unless it is somehow controversial. You could put his height/weight in the text of the article and cite it there, though both the previously linked profiles (basketball-reference, draft review) list the same thing so I'm not sure that is even needed. Rikster2 (talk) 15:08, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Is it the case then that the infobox has been set up in such a way so as cites can't be made?. I can understand if some might prefer not to cite certain facts but surely those who want to directly cite should be able to do so? Eldumpo (talk) 20:33, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * But why not just put the info in the article, cite it and be done with it? Why does the infobox specifically need to hold the citation? The box can handle citation, there are many examples, but in my opinion this should only be done when there is unclear or conflicting info and the information isn't in the prose. Rikster2 (talk) 23:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems a little unnatural to have prose in the article relating to height/weight. Maybe there quite a few articles that do, but this kind of info seems classic material for an infobox. Just to clarify though, can the box handle height/weight citation? Eldumpo (talk) 22:21, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think height/weight info needs to be cited for players who have 1-2 profiles linked and there is no controversy about the information. Heck, the infobox has fields to link both the basketball-reference profile and the NBA.com profile - just do it that way.  That keeps the infobox clean and still verifies the information without singling out height/weight when almost all pieces of data on the infobox are taken from these profiles anyway - it is easily verifiable in most cases for NBA players. I answered your question already, by the way. Rikster2 (talk) 22:25, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Problem

 * Do you know how to solve this problem? 2013–14 KK Partizan season says that Bogdanovic (for example) is 21 years old, but 2011–12 KK Partizan season also says that. Is there a way to get the age that the player has in that specific season instead of his age now? --Harryhurry (talk) 18:08, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how to fix it. I don't even think age is an important field on rosters - if you have date of birth that is fine.  Sorry. Rikster2 (talk) 22:53, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Question about IP that changed height and weight to random numbers on some articles
These kinds of edits and  - I was wondering is there a way to check beside just user contributions if they made more like these in other articles? Because the IP changed a bit and you can't tell I guess? I don't know how you would check that. I just ask because I noticed some weight change to an article that seemed odd, so I checked the IP that changed on the edits and saw they made several like that. But I just fixed those edits. But then a few days later I saw same thing on a different article and realized it was same kind of thing, but if IP changes a little bit you can't tell all these kinds of edits to change height and weight someone could have made. So maybe they did a whole bunch and you don't know how to tell. So I wondered is there a way to check that to see if there are other articles that need to have the height and weight set back or is there not, or do you even know how you would do that? Just curious.Bluesangrel (talk) 01:39, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems same issue here - they just randomly change heights or weights and give no reason or explanation.Bluesangrel (talk) 22:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Some people think they are clever and that this will go unnoticed. Best thing to do is warn them for providing factual inaccuracies using the templates at WP:WARN.  Sometimes it isn't meant in harm - I think the first example (where the user was changing, for example, 6'10.75 to 6'11) was trying to round off - maybe to match a previous listed height.  But the current listed height/weight should appear for active players. Sorry, I don't know any other way to track these type of edits. Rikster2 (talk) 23:08, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

positions in infoboxes
please direct me to this guideline, thx Primergrey (talk) 19:46, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There are thousands of basketball players - active, living and deceased - that all use the slash in the infobox for those with more than one position. That fits the definition of Consensus.  Help me understand why you think the comma is better to use?  I ask because the impact is those thousands of articles so I'd like to understand the reasoning.  Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 19:49, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Border Conference
Any idea who the Border Conference's all-time leading scorer is? I can only find a list of the conference's seasons, but nothing with who scored the most points. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I can take a look. May be able to figure it out based on the conference years and comparing it to the all-time scoring lists.  I'm out of town til Thursday night so I'll take a look sometime after that. Rikster2 (talk) 12:01, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks. If an all-time leading scorer can be found, I'd want to add it to the conference scoring leaders section on the NCAA stats article. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:54, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Lawal
The 76ers roster still has Lawal and Williams listed on it but has taken Blue, Wyatt etc off it (who were waived on October 25). DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:27, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It is behind, the Sixers had to file cuts with the NBA by 5:00 yesterday. I got my info from CBS and major news outlets (like the Philadelphia Inquirer article I linked and this article) are reporting it with the Sixers as the source. Rikster2 (talk) 13:13, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know all that. It's just news reports and CBS, for example, aren't always official. No doubt they have been waived; it's just a matter of when the 76ers themselves release a statement. DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:23, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I just feel like a reputable secondary source that cites the club for the information should be sufficient - I do think blogs and other sources aren't usable. CBS and the like generally get their info from the NBA offices as well. Rikster2 (talk) 13:35, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Eh, I just hate using sources that aren't from NBA.com and/or InsideHoops (due to them basically copy-and-pasting NBA.com press releases and using them as their own). DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:58, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Is now listed here: DaHuzyBru (talk) 16:21, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Potential statsheet.com alternative
This new website launched this week: bbpassport.com. It has game results back to the 1983–84 season. Regardless of whether we use it on Wikipedia, it's a very cool tool to log NCAA and NBA games you've been to. — X96lee15 (talk) 13:25, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip - looks interesting! Rikster2 (talk) 15:39, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I think you made a small error
I note that you have reverted my closure of two PRODs that were incomplete as posted, but took no further action. I'm sure what you really intended to do was come to my talk page and say, "Hi Risker, not sure why these two PRODS [link, link] didn't look as though they'd identified the reason for PROD. I've fixed that, would you mind reconsidering?" You realise that once a PROD has been declined, any further deletion discussion would normally require an AfD. In this case, because it appears there was a technical problem rather than a material one, I will go and delete the two articles. Please keep in mind, however, that it's better to have a conversation than to revert without explanation, and put yourself in a situation where the second PROD could easily have been declined for procedural reasons. Risker (talk) 16:34, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Jeremy Tyler
I'd like your opinion on Jeremy Tyler's birth date. I have found three conflicting dates: June 2, 1991 ; June 12, 1991 ; and June 21, 1991. I'm not sure which one is correct, and it's sort of a similar situation to Francisco García – which was discussed at NBA wikiproject but never resolved. What do you think? DaHuzyBru (talk) 08:29, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Mark Jones (basketball, born 1961)
Hi, could you please try to find any missing clubs for Mark Jones (basketball, born 1961)? Thanks!Hoops gza (talk) 23:28, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll see what I can find. Rikster2 (talk) 23:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

U.S. category for NBA categories
Well I thought that it would be acceptable to include the United States category since only one franchise operates outside of it, and is located on the border. Sorry that this creates extra work to clean up.Hoops gza (talk) 20:59, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * but it has to be true 100% of the time to be a legit parent category. You also have the Vancouver Grizzlies and a Toronto Huskies, btw.  No big deal. Rikster2 (talk) 21:03, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

true, true, thanks for the heads up.Hoops gza (talk) 21:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Zak Irvin
My computer must have gotten hijacked or I hit a button inadvertantly. Don't know what happened. Sorry.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:17, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Two-way respect. WRT Iowa, the only Big Ten Basketball game I anticipate seeing this year is Jan 2, Minn-Mich. I usually spend the holidays in Minnesota so why not stay a couple of extra days for the Big Ten opener. Hoping to get a new lens by then so I can get better images. My budget keeps coming up short on eBay.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll get Pitino and since Hollins was preseason Wooden watchlist, I will get some of him, even though I won't be doing his article. I expect someone else will though.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:29, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

CBA guides and registers
I noticed with your edits on Mark Jones that you cited these. Just curious, do you own a collection of these?Hoops gza (talk) 02:20, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I have most of them from 1977 to 2000 (think I'm missing 3-4 in that span). Rikster2 (talk) 02:23, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Cool! Are they similar to the NBA guides?Hoops gza (talk) 02:33, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, pretty much. You can usually find them on eBay for $10-20 bucks a pop. Rikster2 (talk) 04:53, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Overlinking
I've been working hard to cut back on the overlinking that seems to pervade the 'pedia, and I developed a tool to deal with the problem on a day-to-day basis. You might like to check it out and let me have your feedback. Regards, --  Ohc  ¡digame! 16:16, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Rufus Harris
Can you check your CBA registers to see when and for whom Rufus Harris played? I couldn't find much on him online in terms of his professional career. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 15:58, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * actually I was just sitting down to do so. American East is close to done, who woulda thunk it? Rikster2 (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2013 (UTC)