User talk:Rintrah/Archive 2

Re:Indian-Germans
Hello: one more reference for the German greencard :, please keep in mind that most Indians brought their families with them to Germany , thus the number 20,000 people ; kind regards from garlicboy 1969 , Dec 16th 2006

reference about immigration from India into Germany from the 1960s on :

RE: Luminarium
Hello. You may be interested in another Luminarium-related discussion here. Regards, El_C 15:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Random comments
(I hope it's okay to continue this here--it looks like you've archived your previous talk page.)

lol "Abandon all hope, ye who read this article"!

I read the previous version of the fads article, which sounded like it was copied word-for-word from a VH1 "Experience the 90s!" CD jacket. Wikipedia certainly shouldn't be used for product plugs (no matter how hilariously crap the prose is). I would love to be able to clean it up, but I dissociated myself in disgust around 1995, so my memory of trends in the latter half of the decade is rather hazy. Hopefully a pop culture expert will come along and clean it up at some point. *crosses fingers*

I'm hesitant to nominate articles for deletion, though I am extremely heavy-handed when it comes to editing. I must admit--horrors!--that I even saved an article about a style of modern art, which I detest.

Couldn't you add a section on kettle logic to the Freud page? :)

That's not sadism, it's just...bloodlust. There's nothing cruel about wanting to destroy a worthless article as long as the impulse isn't personal to the creator. ^_^ IrisWings 21:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm impressed that you have a goal for deleting articles. If I see any pointless ones, should I send them your way? :D IrisWings 05:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

It already seems like you've done far more than 50!
 * Oh, for copyedits? Oops. :P


 * As far as I'm concerned, omission of the serial comma isn't a choice--it's incorrect grammar. That's what all my textbooks, usage guides, teachers, and my own common sense have indicated. I told my students last year that if they became writers (not journalists, which is an important distinction), they could tell their editors they were wrong if they claimed the serial comma was unnecessary. :D IrisWings 07:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That's exceptionally impressive. :) I wish I could match it, but I work very slowly.


 * I actually do systematically correct them if I'm already working on an article or if it's one that jumps out at me.


 * Newspaper grammar is different; it is considered a standard of its own. As far as I know, all newspapers, and most magazines, omit the serial comma and also adhere to several other punctuation rules which are different from Standard English. That's probably why the trend has gone to omitting them in other prose. In my opinion, editors are just trying to save a dime. :/


 * I'm aware I may have a bit of an obsession here... IrisWings 07:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

(Is it okay for me to continue to write here, or is it getting too crowded?)

Most of your articles which I've looked over have been fine. I just assumed you were gentler than I and less heavy-handed. :)

Obsession is good until it causes me to pop a blood vessel. :P

lol Feel free to use whichever spelling is natural to you. :D I only know how U.S. papers work. While I can't make a list of journalistic grammar's barbarisms, I seem to remember a lack of accent marks and a combination of too many dashes and too few semicolons. They also fail to write in complete sentences, of course, and they use the singular they, or even worse "he/she," which is patently incorrect. While I don't prefer gender-neutral language, I can at least accept "he or she," but never "he/she." I'm sorry I can't be specific; I read a list of the differences once, but it was very long ago, and I seldom read the paper. :(

I'm not much of a revolutionist; I prefer to be quietly subversive. ^_^ IrisWings 07:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Here they usually say, "Let's go to the weather," as though that were possible...


 * You've just pinpointed why I seldom either read the paper or watch the news. Sadly, I prefer to remain uninformed rather than suffer the poor grammar and mispronunciations of ignorant louts who shouldn't be allowed to write or speak publicly. I can understand economy of speech. It was very difficult for me to learn to quell my impulse to indiscriminately scatter adverbs and adjectives throughout my prose, but my most-respected teachers drilled clarity and simplicity into me until I finally bent to their will. (Not here, obviously. :) )

When I first came here, I wanted to join the Elizabethan Theatre project, but I was soon discouraged when I discovered that some contributors don't seem to want anyone's help. Rather than enter into editorial disputes which would only leave me feeling badly, I decided to divorce myself emotionally from my activities at Wikipedia. I'll try to remain bold; after all, I'm used to editing student essays--that quickly toughens one's skin to complaints.
 * I can understand how you became frustrated.

You're not a writing or teaching professional? What do you do, then? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by IrisWings (talk • contribs) 08:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC).
 * I'm sure whatever English classes you attended in secondary school are more than sufficient. :)

You make me curious to see an example of your old writing style. :)
 * I meant your grammar and spelling instruction was probably sufficient. I'm not surprised your teachers encouraged pretentious writing; I had to work to undo a lot of that with my students. I was lucky to have two excellent English teachers in high school and several excellent professors in college; most secondary school composition teachers probably don't have the writing experience that mine did.


 * Our news presenters talk rather slowly, possibly because of the prevalent belief that the American public is incredibly slow-witted. I don't notice an egregious use of cliches in journalistic media, but I do find it irritating that the anchors pal around and have personal conversations instead of simply presenting the news. I don't know about Australia, but "Infotainment" is the news trend here.

We have the same problem with writers using the parts of speech interchangeably. Nouns become verbs, etc.
 * U.S. newspapers sometimes use fragments instead of complete sentences. They may have capital letters at the beginnings and end marks at the ends, but they frequently have incomplete subjects or verbs. Maybe that's something only an English teacher would notice...

You will read more for research, or for pleasure? :) IrisWings 09:28, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Science and Latin? I think you may be my opposite. :P

We have Sunrise and Today here as well; they are detestable: "Senator Smith was arrested on collaboration charges today. Next, here's Chef Maggie to teach us to make holiday muffins!"
 * The national news is fairly fluff-free, but the local news mixes soft and hard news and uses the "chum" format. Even after reporting on murders and robberies, the cast all jokes around together at the end of the show. >_< The news treats the public like children who need to learn an important fact, but don't need to dwell on it too much.


 * It sounds like your news is trying to cram as much into a little space as possible. Do you have all-news networks (like CNN)?


 * Indeed, Bierce grew up in Indiana, just like I did. I think things may have changed since Bierce's time; newspapers are now a competitive industry just like everything else.


 * Even if I get a chance to talk to some network execs, they won't listen to me. Many Americans are fed up with crap shows like Big Brother and other exploitative "reality" shows. The networks cater to the lowest common denominator. I guess intelligent people aren't supposed to watch TV--they think we're all off reading or attending Mensa meetings or something.

Literature is more difficult to write about, because it can't all be objective.
 * They didn't shun me. I just didn't feel very welcome.


 * Again, I think you're my opposite. :) I read fiction for pleasure and non-fiction for research. IrisWings 19:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't have cable, so I've never seen Fox News. I was under the impression that it is fairly reputable, however. We didn't have anything but news about the attacks for days after 9/11, of course. You have Jerry Springer there? I'm so sorry! No wonder world opinion of Americans is so low!

One of the reasons that reality shows are so popular with network execs is that they can be so cheaply produced. Fictional shows, on the other hands, require acting, directing, lighting and sound, costuming and make-up, music, editing, etc. You keep mentioning Big Brother, but did you ever see Fear Factor? It was possibly the most offensive show of all time. The trend is slowly turning toward less reality TV here, or at least less outrageous ones.

Our all-news networks are also on cable or satellite; however, an alternate news source is PBS, which, because it's non-profit, is fairly reliable. I was being facetious; I do watch television. There are a few shows that I enjoy, most of which are sci-fi or legal dramas. I'm not fond of sitcoms, which generally are cheesy, as you say.

I use the Norton Shakespeare. Its introductions are excellent. :)

Keeping a pistol might have been an American thing, not just a Bierce thing. I'm sure that his ascerbic wit offended many people.

Teaching is a B.S. degree. I only took one science course in college--Geology. I admire people who like and are good at science, but I never have been.

How do you use fiction for research?

You have a great day, too! ^_^ IrisWings 05:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I usually read and watch TV at the same time, if that mitigates it for you.
 * Sorry; I told you I was a prole.

I've never met a science person who was so interested in literature. :)
 * The Norton Shakespeare was a required text in one of my college classes ($80!). I want the poetry anthology too. ^_^ I shelled out last year and bought myself a set of the Child Ballads.

However, I feel compelled to argue the difference between shows like Big Brother and game shows like Jeopardy!
 * No, you are correct about reality TV. Society has been declining even more rapidly since it became popular. It appeals to the basest desires and most prurient interests of mankind; I can't believe the FCC doesn't declare it obscene.

I am fully aware of how much America is revered in much of the rest of the world. I met many foreign students when I was in college who were so grateful to be here. I think it's more the government and economy that attracts them, however--not the culture. :/ I'm glad I have so many opportunities living here, but I wish we were less war-like and less self-righteous. We all know where hubris leads...
 * Is McDonald's worse than Jerry Springer? The food is disgusting, but it's just food, after all. Or do you mean the corporate aspects of McDonald's? I would think Wal-Mart would be worse.


 * I'm glad you had a good day, though I doubt it was because of me. ^_^ IrisWings 20:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Wal-Mart may not have expanded YET, but you can bet they want to.
 * After I thought about McDonald's, I suspected that might be the case.


 * I tend to re-read books. If I'm reading something for the first time, I prefer to do it without the TV. If I've read it before, I prefer to have the TV on. It creates background noise that helps drown out noisy neighbors.


 * Well, thanks for crediting me regardless. ^_^ IrisWings 02:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Minor edits and unusual articles
Sorry about that; I'm usually much better about using the "minor edit" checkbox properly. :) &mdash;tregoweth (talk) 05:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Psycho
American Psycho is looking much better. The synopsis is good. The rampage section has too many uses of the verb kill. There's repetition of stuff on the misidentification theme, and I don't really like the symbolism section, which deserves its warning header. Maybe the personality section should be shorter, given there's an article on the character already. Trivia section is interesting. The film was good, but I'd have updated it, music and all, to the dot.com period - so I guess it's not just a satire on '80s yuppiedom.--Shtove 17:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Gil Vicente
I'd be happy to help you. :)

You should know, though, that I don't collaborate well--I tend to take over. If that's okay with you, let me know. If not, I understand. I don't want to hurt your feelings by accidentally overwriting what you've done. IrisWings 22:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll try to finish what I can tonight (probably today for you).
 * I'm relieved to hear it. :)


 * I'll leave reflexion alone if you wish. It's not so much archaic as it is "chiefly British"; I've never seen it used in American English of any time period. If I can manage it, I'll leave all the spelling British to match. That might be one of the things you'll want to check for. IrisWings 05:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * lol I don't purposely change to American spelling, but if I change words or write a new sentence, I use it automatically. When I was in middle school, one of my teachers gave me a poor mark and yelled at me for using British spelling ("We're in America--use American English!")

It didn't look that long on the page, but it's quite dense.
 * Anyway, this article is a job of work. I have no experience with Portugese, so I'm not sure I'm getting the idiomatic subtleties... :/


 * I've done the Life and Career sections. I'm currently working on the "Philosophical elements" section. I don't really like that title--do you have any suggestions for how I might rename it? IrisWings 09:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've now completed the "Written works" section. I'll be adding the religious plays and farces sections to it later. For now, I'm going to bed. Have a good day! :) IrisWings 10:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

My particular obsession is pronunciation, rather than spelling, and it irritates me to hear Americans putting on fake British accents--it's pretentious and silly.
 * Thank you for the (very confusing) compliment. :)

It's a fine language, though, and I hope you end up learning it. :)
 * Alas, I studied French in high school. Though I can still understand it, I can no longer construct it. :/


 * I left it "Philosophical elements." Though I'm not pleased with that, it's the "philosophical" part that doesn't sound quite right. Of course, that entire section was incredibly confusing, so maybe it doesn't matter. :P


 * I have now finished the article. Feel free to revert my accidental Americanisms back to their proper British state. :D IrisWings 01:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm always confused by compliments; I'm not that used to hearing them. lol

My hair is brown, but I have an Irish nose. :P A lot of people in Australia have Gaelic blood, right? :) IrisWings 06:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm glad the article seems good; It took me a long time. e_e

That's just what people tell me--I have an Irish nose. I don't know what that means; my nose is straight and it turns up a bit at the end. I'm rarely mistaken for anything but Gaelic.

I'm Irish on one side and Scottish on the other. I also have a jot of Cherokee, like many Americans.

Though I'm sure many of the Irish didn't move to Australia voluntarily, I hope their descendants are satisfied to be there. :)

I'm a bit tired of copyediting, too; it seems like we are the only ones doing any work. Hopefully the others will return after the holidays. Did you meet your goal of 50? Again, thanks for the compliment. ^_^

You've accomplished a lot! You've worked on several articles that I'm sure few other people would have cared to try. Good luck with your studies! IrisWings 07:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Claymore (manga) copy-edit question
What kind of english are we supposed to be using? British or American english? Right now, it's pretty much mixed. An answer would be appreciated, I'll gladly fix it when you do. Thanks Rintrah. -- K yo cat  ¿Quíeres hablar? 04:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh no, it's quite alright if you put some british english words. I'm gald to have fixed them. Hey, in a paragraph, it mentions CLaymores as "hybrids". Should those be changed to "Claymores"? Other than that, I'm pretty sure I've done just about everything I could. Could you look at it when you have the time? Thanks, -- K yo cat  ¿Quíeres hablar? 23:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've done some more little alterations. Think it's good enough to place in the "Ready for final Proofread"? By the way, it's me, Kyo (changed name). --  T ohru Honda13  ¿Quíeres hablar? 01:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I put it up for final proofread. I don't want you to go through extra work in your time of despair. I know how you are feeling right about now. But we must live on. Hardship is what make us human. It's normal. Someday, we'll get over it and laugh about it in the future. Oh, and everyone liked my old username best. I regret it now.... --  T ohru Honda13  Sign here! 05:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

American Psycho
How about I shorten the bits of Patrick Batemans reality and put it into the 'Themes and symobloisim' section? RaptorRobot 07:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC) :)

Melbourne meetup
Greetings, person who is listed as being interested in future meetups in Melbourne. The fourth meetup will be held on 18 December, at Lower House in Fed Square (in the Alfred Deaking building, Flinders Street end near the Atrium: map), starting from 7pm. We don't currently have a separate location for discussion beforehand, but there'll be plenty of time to talk wiki over dinner. --bainer (talk) 15:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey - you didn't make it? Hope you can make it to the next one! pfctdayelise (talk) 03:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Fun, fun, fun
lol I'm glad someone besides us has a sense of humor around here. :D

Are you going to edit the sentence even though it's funny? I have a hard time making judgment calls like that. IrisWings 20:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Talk about misplaced modifiers! :P

Your work has been quality; all of your articles that I've checked have been fine. :) If I've changed things, it's only because I'm so incredibly nitpicky. IrisWings 19:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm almost to 50, not counting articles in which I've only changed spelling or something small.

It's easy to become impatient when you realize how easily others could have corrected their own simple mistakes, like misspellings. My problem is that I work so slowly, I can only complete one small article a day, or one big one every two or three days. Your drive and encouragement have really inspired me to do as much as I can. :)
 * Being a perfectionist isn't much fun; I'm not sure you should strive for that. ;)


 * You're right; reading the work of others, both poor and good, is a great way to improve your own writing. Meanwhile, good night and sweet dreams! IrisWings 19:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Tessa
She looks so sweet! ^_^ Her markings are really pretty when they're visible. I miss having a dog.

Is that your garden behind you? It's lovely, too. :)

I see from your userpage that you are on holiday. My brain is on Christmas vacation as well, so it will be a few more days before I pick up any more editing. IrisWings 19:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, lol. I didn't realize you were restraining her--I thought you were giving her a hug. :P


 * I'm sorry to hear Melbourne is so polluted. I live in a very small town, so I haven't had much experience with that.

There's nothing wrong with geeks, though--some of my best friends have been ones. ^_^
 * I wear skinny, octagonal glasses, but I'm not a computer geek. I feel fortunate just to touch the computer without it spouting smoke and fire at me!


 * I'm staying with my mom for Christmas, too. I hope your holiday is fun and happy! Merry Christmas! IrisWings 07:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Any pollution we have here comes from factories.
 * Are the fires necessary, or are they accidental?


 * I never wear my glasses when I have my picture taken, either. I'm afraid they'll cause a glare when the flash goes off.

The same thing happened to my friend's laptop. He left it on the windowsill, went out of the room for a few minutes, and when he came back, smoke was pouring out of it. He called the helpline and said, "My laptop is on fire! What do I do?" The operator responded, "And what seems to be the problem, sir?" It sounds like a joke, but it's sadly true. That's one of the reasons I would never buy a Mac.
 * lol Thanks for the link.


 * I understand the difficulty of pet photos. The last time I tried to have my picture taken with my cat on my lap, he plunged his claws into my knee and ran away. I think the flash scared him.


 * Thanks! IrisWings 10:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Aside: Can you believe today's featured article is about Torchic? lol IrisWings 11:05, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought it was funny to feature a Pokemon article. Actually, it's kind of sad that an individual Pokemon has its own article. Someone is obsessed. O_o

lol Yer gramer is be gud. IrisWings 11:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Merry Christmas, Rintrah! IrisWings 07:22, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Season's Greeting
Happy New Year, sir.



Christmas Greeting!
Sorry I forgot to give you this sooner. I've lost track of who I've given this too. Nice pic of you and your doggie! ^_^ -- Tohru  Honda 13Sign here! 05:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh heh, the Spanish is translated at the bottom in red. ^_^ -- Tohru  Honda 13Sign here! 19:42, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, it's not Christmas anymore where you live? England? I wish I could visit England. It looks like it rains a lot over there.... something I rarely see here in Laredo! One of the things I like about Wikipedia is that I get to meet people from other countries. Well, Merry be-lated Chrismas! -- Tohru  Honda 13Sign here! 22:25, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Serial comma dispute
Your arguments are excellent. You haven't received a response yet, so I will bide for now. If you need me, I will help, but I don't think I'll be able to state the case so clearly and compellingly as you've done. IrisWings 20:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I regret to admit this, but I have difficulty remaining calm when arguing with people who so obviously wish to remain wilfully ignorant of proper speech and grammar. Your refutations are both clear and impartial; I admire that.
 * Your arguments continue to be excellent.

Feel better soon! IrisWings 20:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you're feeling ill. Do you have a summer cold?


 * Do you think your sore throat could be due to tonsil problems? My tonsils become inflamed every summer. Perhaps you should go to the doctor if you have not already done so. IrisWings 23:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

 * Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays ! | A ndonic O Talk 01:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. :-) | A ndonic O Talk</i> 11:56, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!
My Christmas was a blast!!!!!!!!! Hope you had fun too! :-) Advance Happy New Year!!!!!! :-p  katZ   03   23:26, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Barber cello sonata
Tried to add some further useful information :)... like the names of those four, I mean three, movements Schissel | Sound the Note! 20:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

follows
OK. Tony 14:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments on Talk:Misandry
Thank you for the effort you're taking to explain NPOV (among other things) to certain editors. I'm impressed with your patience and clarity. / edgarde 06:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

you're too kind
Here's a mutual fan club emerging! I was delighted to see the fine way in which you further edited my changes to the League's project page. (The selfish part of me was disappointed.) I wonder whether you plan to pursue a career as an editor/writer.

It's just excellent that this League is up and running: it's what we've needed for a long time. You probably know that I spend most of my time hanging around the FAC and FAR/C rooms. I guess I thought that it's the way I can have the biggest footprint, rather than intensively copy-editing particular articles (although I occasionally do that for friends and where I have a close interest in a topic). I was, frankly, appalled at the poor prose that was being promoted as "among our best", which was setting a bad example for the whole project. The Director has chosen to take a loose approach to that issue rather than actively stepping in and trying to improve it—that's not per se a criticism, since there's a conflict of interest in his becoming close to the review process.

In those rooms, many of the nominations are in dire need of copy-editing. This causes problems when, typically, the nominators can't or won't locate fresh eyes to fix their text, or those eyes simply aren't good enough. Then, if we have time, we continue to complain about the text by citing examples, but this is time-consuming. I referred one yesterday (Germany) to the League, with caution, since I think there'll be a cascade of requests from those rooms if we're not careful. Providing a fix-it service may encourage people to nominate for FAC just to have their prose massaged; that's why I think the League might be chary of acceding to requests from FAC and FAR/C unless all or most other problems seem to be OK, judging by the review comments. Do you agree? And I'd be inclined to ask them in the early stages of FAC/FARC to find their own copy-editors—all topics should have like-minded people at hand who can copy-edit, is my mantra to them. In fact, they really should go to you before they nominate, rather than gumming up the process.

As for my tutorial stuff, yes, it's on the right track, but I need to devote a few more days to fixing it up and expanding it, time that I can't muster at the moment—too much paid work. User:Hoary has recently done a marvellous job in copy-editing and otherwise improving parts of it. In particular, I want to add some longer examples—at the suggestion of someone on the talk page there—to the redundancy examples, so that it's more ecologically valid. Tony 00:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: House, etc.
Talking about this line? "Families, as well as other social groups, generally live permanently in houses." As opposed to inside rabbit warrens, for example?

lol At least this article doesn't descend to the level of definition, though I find it rather silly that List of house types, which is not that long, is a separate article...

You seem to be feeling better. ^_^ IrisWings 05:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Either you are quite feverish, or your recovery has made you flippy.
 * lol


 * Happy New Year! ^_^ IrisWings 05:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you feel better. :)

It takes a certain amount of insane sanity to be able to put up with other people's horrendous grammar and spelling. :P IrisWings 07:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Flippy" isn't a bad thing--I certainly didn't mean it as an insult.

I do sometimes have difficulty telling when you're kidding, however, so I find it safer to assume you're not rather than risk offending you. :) (I have a nasty tendency to come off rather snide and unpleasant on-line because, of course, no one can hear my tone of voice.)
 * I was being silly, too.

I usually change "at this point of [bad preposition] time" to "currently" and "due to the fact that" to "because of." :D
 * Those phrases violate the "economy of words" tenet.

I hate it when people use synergy in a non-scientific context, especially when talking about businesses.
 * Er, can synergy be pluralized? O_o


 * Alas, it's usually a nightmare for me, but I get a peculiar sense of satisfaction when I finish an article and can look upon the perfection of grammar and spelling I have created. lol IrisWings

While it's true that we can't erase what we or others say aloud, I still prefer speech. After years of arduous practice, I am currently capable of speaking almost without mistake or regret. It's a skill one must learn rather quickly while teaching English, after all. :D I also speak much more quickly than I write, so I'm able to accomplish much more in one oral conversation than in several written ones. In addition, the immediacy of oral feedback is very gratifying. Like you, though, I often wish I could delete the speech of other people.

I also often long to go back and undo an event or a day. When I play too many computer RPGs for too long, I start feeling invulnerable and think, "Oh, well. If this goes wrong, I'll just reload and try again tomorrow!" Oops. That probably really does make me insane... IrisWings 08:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I find that my writing impresses more than my speech, but that may be a cultural or sexual difference. I would love to be able to write more quickly; I continually second-guess myself before I send e-mails, post in forums, or save pages here. What do you mean by "thinking in the same mode"?
 * I'm not sure how interesting what I say is, but I do try to ensure that my comments are both apropos and constructive. (My temper is the main barrier to the latter.)

My biggest pet peeve is pronunciation. I nearly always correct it, a habit which usually wins more enemies than friends. The worst word: forte. In the U.S., forte ("strength") is often pronounced the same as the musical term forte ("loud"), though they derive from different languages. I once argued with a teacher over this, which ended in my victory and bad grades for the remainder of the year. You'd think I would have learned some diplomacy by now... IrisWings 19:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Through necessity, I have grown insensitive to the poor speech of others. While I still occasionally cringe at an ostentatious barbarism, I can ignore the more common speech errors.

I have no idea who left me that weird comment on my talk page. I haven't been active here for a couple weeks. I guess some people are just crazy. The other day, I got some weird message about working with people to improve the Jesus article. I looked at it, and it was fine. Later, an administrator deleted the message from my talk page. O_O IrisWings 20:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't blame you for your torpor. I certainly never feel like accomplishing much of anything when the weather is hot. Right now we are having an unpleasantly warm winter; I can't imagine how blazing your summer must be. :/ IrisWings 20:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the lovely compliment. :) I am also neurotic; you and I can look up to each other.

The Lottie Project
Thank you so much for your work. It's very much appreciated. I've left a longer note on the article's talk page. :-) Random Passer-by 19:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks from drop in editor on Misandry
Here is a belated thank you for you welcome, your acknowledgement of my work, and your comments on my usages. I apologize for overreacting to your welcome earlier...(something that is common on a system that still resembles the Wild West in many ways.) We share some and differ on other views about Wiki but I respect your loyalty to what you believe about Wiki...and I will do what I can to allow you to correct me where you see I have misconceptions about Wiki or anything else.

I especially value your 'hard' (or what fascist-feminists would call "unfriendly") feedback because it is often difficult to keep perspective in articles where so many editors see a need to use ugly tactics to push POV...(everyone pushes POV, including me, but we could have civil dialogue were wiki able to disipline overt or covert aggression). Please continue to offer me constructive criticisms on anything here or elsewhere. I am going to establish a user page so you can go there with personal suggestions/discussions. (drop in editor)

Thank you Rintrah!
Thanks Rintrah for feedback on the Patriarchy page. I will keep working on it. So far, internal links provide verification of all that is said. I will add literary and external links as my postgrad research progresses. Schoenen Dank, und Gruesse aus Australien, tchuess! Alastair Haines 10:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

hey
I was shocked that you are a guy. (for about a second,,:-p) lol. Hope you had a nice holidays... KathzzZz cHat 10:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, i just thought the name rintrah is a girl. & for me guys seldom become intrested in writing stuff, you know...most prefer the beach and club parties than donate their knowledge in wikipedia... I was dead wrong. Sorry for the stereotyping, lol. :-p its still kinda cold here in the Philippines! KathzzZz chat 00:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well its not really that cold...just cold enough for me not to wear skirts and stuff. This wouldnt last long, coz the holidays just ended and summer's fast approaching. This is a tropical country, so its just summer and winter that we have. & most people here love the sun because of the beach. I dont really get to enjoy much coz im at work 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week. Judging by what u said, u seem to dislike summer. hehe, but you can stay at an air-conditioned room if it really kills you. :-P KathzzZz chat 23:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey
Hi Rintrah,

Happy New Year! I have been trying to improve the Ohio Wesleyan University article. I noticed that you were listed under the League of Copyeditors. I was wondering if you might have any time to take a look at the article? Thank you so much for your help! WikiprojectOWU 22:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Wow, this was very helpful! Thank you! Here are my responses to your questions.

During the mid-19th century, the school focused on its curriculum and fund raising, significantly increasing the school's endowment. The new ideal of specialization brought an emphasis on professional preparation for the Doctor of Philosophy degree and on travel and study in Europe. Two Rhodes Scholars from Ohio Wesleyan were selected during 1905-1910. During the Welch presidency in 1905, it was decided that despite the expansion and the institution's name, Ohio Wesleyan University was to remain a college instead of a university. The Bachelor of Science degree was dropped, leaving only the Bachelor of Arts. Academic requirement for the bachelor's degree were cut and the emphasis on Latin and mathematics came to an end during the 1920s. During the Hoffman years, the Academy and the School of Business ended in 1916. The Academy had started in 1842 as apreparatory school and throughout its seventy-five years of existence frequently outnumbered the college in enrollment. The 1930s were marked by the effects of The Great Depression. Ties with the Methodist church withered in the 1920s,[42] causing much debate in the 1930s among Board members resulting in a current loose historic affiliation. In 1951-1954, Thomson and Bashford Hall, originally men's dorms were built. The 1960s were a period of conflict between faculty and administrators regarding administrative structure and control.[47] The result of the conflict was news statement of aims stressing values rather than religious goal statements, a more internationalized curriculum, a Women's Studies Program, an International Business major and a change to a new calendar with three 10.5-week terms. Construction and fund raising continue to be significant initiatives in the school’s strategic planning. Oh, if I've changed the content unwittingly, I should be glad for you to correct me. Rintrah
 * How did it focus on its cirriculum?
 * This largely, means adding new fields of study and new departments. More detail of the expansion and focus on the curriculum was moved to List of Ohio Wesleyan University presidents WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please make this clearer. Perhaps "The specialization encouraged professional prepation for the Doctor of Philosophy degree and exchange study in Europe"?
 * Your suggestion is better than the original statement. Thanks! WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should have fixed this. "from Ohio Wesleyan" should be moved to after "were selected" to avoid ambiguity.
 * I'll add your suggestion! WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Who decided the expansion? (This is the problem with passive voice). This is just confusing: "and the institution's name, Ohio Wesleyan University was to remain a college instead of a university." The above sentences should probably be rewritten in active voice.
 * The administration under president Welch was the deciding authority that the structure of the university at the time was not sustainable. WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am confused about the Academy,
 * It was one of the academic bodies of Ohio Wesleyan University functioning much like a prep school. WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * What does this add?
 * It provides context for the two administrations, especially because some of the problems were financial. WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The two successive -ing phrases are inelegant—"which resulted", perhaps? Why "in a current" and not "in the current"?
 * You are right, this needs to get changed. WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Is "originally men's dorms" renaming "Thomas and Bashford Hall? If so, you need to put another comma after "dorms".
 * True. WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * All the action is relegated to nouns: "period of conflict", "the result", "news statement", "aims", and "a change". Rewrite it with more action in verbs. I missed a typo: "curriculum" should be "cirriculum".
 * I will change it. Thanks! WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Too vague. State the idea more specifically. Rintrah 13:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I will try to make it more clear. WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I just remembered another point: it is better to avoid acronyms unless they're strictly needed. Perhaps you could change "OWU" to "Wesleyan University"? Rintrah 13:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In older school publications I see both "Ohio Wesleyan" and Wesleyan and less so OWU as ways to refer to the school. I need more opinions on this one as this may generate some disagreements among editors. WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for all your comments! Your suggestions are very helpful! Thank you once again!WikiprojectOWU 02:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion Policy
Well, there are a number of sources, actually:


 * 1) The best place to start is at Deletion policy, oddly enough. :)
 * 2) However, you may be interested in Guide to deletion
 * 3) Also useful is Deletion process
 * 4) And I wrote up an article on this, available at User:The Transhumanist/Virtual classroom/Elaragirl, about deletion and deletionism.

The various guidelines should all be listed on the main page of WP:SCISSORS, near the bottom. --<font face="Verdana"> Elar a  girl  Talk 09:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Weaving
So how is Enitharmon doing? DS 21:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Rintrah
I shall implement the suggested changes. I wish someone would work on University of Melbourne with the same keenness as you've worked on Wesleyan.
 * Perhaps University of Melbourne will become my next project. Do you really like the name? I picked it pretty quickly without much thought. LaSaltarella 07:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Citation template
Hi, I just wanted to let you know that the template is for testing only (see Template:Citation). The correct template is (or  ). Hoverfish Talk 13:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

RE: Areas of Interest
Yep, Shakespeare is where it all started for me, but then I diversified into learning about the entire era--its pretty fascinating stuff. I was an English major in college, so that partially explains my rather nerdy areas of interest. :o)

How bout you--into Shakespeare? Galena11 16:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

PS--Love the pictures! :o)


 * Well, Google tells me that Rintrah is either from William Blake, the Dr. Strange comic, or both. ;o) Never got into Blake, really. But if you can recommend one of his works that is of particular interest, I'm willing to give it a go.


 * And yes, I noticed the glaring omission of "reality (TV) bites" and hastened to correct it--I think my subconscious just blocks out the entire genre to protect me from its inanity. *grin*


 * Do you mean the series with Helen Mirren as Elizabeth? I thought she was wonderful in the role.  I haven't seen The Queen yet (clever, isn't it? going from Elizabeth I to II), but have heard great things about it. Speaking of Elizabeth I, did you know that Cate Blanchett is reprising the role in Elizabeth: The Golden Years?  Whee!


 * Learning Latin is very ambitious and should make learning French easy for you. Galena11 04:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow
Thank you. It is lovely to see you so engaged. Here is my response:

Problematic Sentences
I ran through it again and came across these problematic sentences:

Academic requirement for the bachelor's degree were cut
 * As in prequisites, course requirements, or what?
 * From 39 nine courses to 34.

Ohio Wesleyan students receive a liberal arts baccalaureate-only residential experience
 * Not clear. In fact, I don't know what it means.
 * I meant to say that you can only get a bachelor's degree there and you are pretty much required to live on campus.

Ohio Wesleyan appears to hold a positive relationship with the City of Delaware.
 * Vague. Perhaps it says Ohio Wesleyan has strong community ties—I have no idea.
 * Your wording captures the essence of the idea better.

I need a fresh pair of eyes to continue; namely, sleep. Rintrah 03:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Once again, thank you!!! Seriously, you are very helpful! LaSaltarella 23:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't believe you are awake. :-)
 * Was I wrong in assuming that you were in the US? LaSaltarella 09:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sort of. ;-) LaSaltarella 09:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Located 20 minutes north of Columbus
 * Can you convert this to kilometers? I don't know whether 20 minutes is the same for a Ferrari driven by a hot-head as for a broken down Mini.
 * Fixed. LaSaltarella 10:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The student-led Columbus Initiative is located in Hamilton Williams Campus Center. Started in 1989, the program is an experiential learning partnership between the college and Columbus Public schools. More than 150 Ohio Wesleyan students tutor and mentor underprivileged pupils from Columbus, Ohio.
 * The first two sentences need to be merged, because the first one is rather dull on its own. Can you elaborate on (or define) "experiential learning partnership"? I don't understand it. Are the 150 students from the Columbus Initiative? If so, the connection should be made clear.
 * Sounds good. Experiential learning was meant to capture theory+experience (Columbus Initiative). I agreee...it is not clear. The 150 students are from the Columbus Initiative.LaSaltarella 10:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The community-based Wesleyan Ambassadors (ISAP) promotes cultural diversity and ethnic awareness within the local community.
 * Can you explain this? It is vague on its own. Rintrah 09:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I see your point. The program encompasses presentations by international students on their countries' culture, traditions and history to local Delaware, Ohio residents and high schools in the vicinity of the college. LaSaltarella 10:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Rintrah, I posted a response to your questions from last night on my talk page. Thank you so much for all your help!!! LaSaltarella 01:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Wesleyan
Sure, I'd be happy to proof. Just let me know when it's ready..... Galena11 18:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I took a whack at the "Organizations and activities" section. I think its main problem is that it was trying to say too many things all at once. Let me know what you think.  Galena11 17:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * One more note: I'm not sure what, if anything, the image of the clock has to do with organizations and activities.  You might want to ask the author to come up with a more illustrative image.  Galena11 17:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, I went through the article up to the "organizations..." section, and have these "trouble spot" notes:

Intro:
 * The word "youngest" in "(the youngest member of the Ohio Five)" bothers me, since youth relates to development, not necessarily chronology. There's got to be a better word....newest? last? most recent?

Campus expansion and fundraising:
 * The paragraph beginning, "During 1891-1895, OWU established departments for..." doesn't quite make sense to me, particularly the note about the Doric Front, which seems to have more to do with architecture than expanded course offerings.
 * It is kind of choppy. They were part of two larger paragraphs earlier, one about curriculum development, the other one about architectural development. With the rearrangement, the Doric Front sentence became an orphan. LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In the following paragraph, the first sentence talks about students studying through the graduate level, but the next sentence is about an undergrad honor society. I think the first sentence belongs in the paragaph above.
 * The paragraphs beginning with "During the Welch presidency" and "During the Hoffman years" are confusing because the article hasn't explained who Welsh or Hoffman are, and there's no historical reference to the time period of the latter. The only president mentioned in the article up to this point is Edward Thompson.  I suggest creating anchor links to List of Ohio Wesleyan University presidents from the text whenever presidents are mentioned by last name only.
 * I agree. There is a separate article about the presidents and their timeline. LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This sentence is really dense: At the same time, Selby Stadium, Austin Manor, and Perkins Observatory were constructed, while Stuyvesant Hall was being planned and Edgar Hall opened.

20th century: years of change
 * I recommend spelling out Twentieth in the heading, since it is at the beginning and won't mess up user preferences.
 * See note above about presidents and dates. If linking to the list of presidents is impractical or deemed unnecessary, I think that this format, with the dates in parentheses after the name, should be applied to all mentions of presidents,
 * Dense-ness here: Greek and Latin declined in popularity, while business administration and economics remained popular, and the social sciences, English, pre-medicine and history received the largest enrollments at the school.

Academics
 * Profile section
 * This description ("Five Colleges of Ohio[59]—a consortium of Ohio liberal arts colleges that includes Kenyon College, Oberlin College, College of Wooster, and Denison University.[59]") might be helpful up in the introductory paragraph, since "(youngest of the Ohio Five)" is not very imformative. Also, the reference should only be at the end.
 * "For 2010, Wesleyan accepted approximately 54% of its regular decision applicants and had a yield rate of 28%.[60]". How can this be in the past tense when the date is three years away? :o) What is the correct year? 2001?
 * For 2010 refers to the Class of 2010, which gets admitted by April 1, 2006 and enters Ohio Wesleyan in the fall of 2006. Therefore, the statistic is only 6-7 months old but the admissions for students graduating in 2010 was done in January to May of last year.LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The phrase "left-leaning" is going to need a link to something, because that is a very American phrase for "liberal" rather than actually tilting to the left. :o) Perhaps Modern American liberalism?
 * I think Social liberalism, Progressivism, Social Progressivism are most appropriate here. LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Curriculum section
 * "In its early days, the school's curriculum began with classical studies..." This paragraph makes it sound as though this still applies, although it was mentioned earlier that, "Academic requirement for the bachelor's degree were cut and the emphasis on Latin and mathematics ended in the 1920s.[36]"
 * True, the emphasis on classics was only in the early days, one that ended in the 1920s. LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Strange modifier in this sentence, "In 1899, William Ehnis, class of 1898, traveled to Africa and opened a school in Mutare, Zimbabwe, a predecessor of Africa University.[84]" Is Mutare, Zimbabwe the predecessor of the university?
 * I meant to say that he opened a school, which eventually became Africa University. LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Campus
 * Other facilities section
 * This sentence, "The university also maintains offices for study abroad and internship programs", makes it sound like it will describe international study programs, but only discusses domestic (US) programs.
 * I just noticed that you made the change for this one. LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

That's it! Let me know if you have any questions. Galena11 04:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Your changes look great. :o) Galena11 06:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you, both! Thank you again for your help and hard work! LaSaltarella 06:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! :o) In answer to your question, Rintrah: I think that there should be, at most, two naming conventions beyond the full spelling in the lead (and you might consider spelling it out the first time it appears in each major section, as well).  For "shorthand" references, I suggest sticking to OWU and Wesleyan; the school is techinally a college but is called a university, and it might confuse readers if you use "school", "university" and "college" interchangably with OWU and Wesleyan. The latter two should provide enough variety to avoid repetition. Galena11 16:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

1a page
I agree; do you want to make these changes? If not, I'll need to wait until I have a little space. Thanks for taking the time to suggest these improvements. Tony 15:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Rintrah! It's hard to see where you live ... Australia, given the time zone? Tony 05:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC)