User talk:Ritchie333/Archive 50

Ruth McCartney
Why do you persist in undoing edits [Abbey Road] which have been cited by Sir Paul McCartney himself in the Beatles' Anthology., regarding the genesis of the song "Golden Slumbers"? Do you have some sort of personal vendetta against my employer Ruth McCartney?

https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/golden-slumbers/

http://www.iamthebeatles.com/article1158.html

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=204

https://books.google.com/books?id=K-8OhZhmoyQC&pg=PT450&lpg=PT450&dq=beatles+anthology+book+golden+slumbers&source=bl&ots=XNfFcw8Cqf&sig=Zh0fimP9VvBeIALrR3PjfwZcDu0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibsaKn-ZfRAhXLilQKHWrhBtsQ6AEIPjAG#v=onepage&q=beatles%20anthology%20book%20golden%20slumbers&f=false

She would like to speak to you about this

www.mccartneymultimedia.com

Thank you Lucy@McCartney.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucyconlon (talk • contribs) 22:36, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

There are a number of issues here, so let's take them in turn:
 * 1) Nobody is going to have a go at you specifically - we all assume you thought you were doing the right thing.
 * 2) Multiple editors have reverted your edits as inappropriate and degrading the article's quality, but you keep restoring it, so the edit warring notice on your talk page is appropriate. As nobody else agrees that your edit should stand, you need to convince other people why it should. In particular, declaring a conflict of interest by working for Ruth McCartney is probably a strategic error, as some editors distrust any direct relationship to a subject.
 * 3) One of Wikipedia's most important policies is the neutral point of view, which means we need to write a balanced account of everyone involved in the album, not just the loudest advocate. In my view, Paul McCartney has had a tendency for selection bias to kick in and rewrite history (after all, who's going to stand up and disagree with him?), most obviously with the book he did with Barry Miles. Memories from nearly 50 years ago tend to fade, and bad ones have a tendency to disappear altogether; although he has had the benefit of refreshing them through continual explanation to journalists ever since, it's still possible for unintended bias to creep in. I suspect if  looked through his collection of George Harrison books, he'd come up with quite a different account of what went on in the Abbey Road sessions. So we need to consider all points of view carefully. Obviously, if there's a piece in the article that Paul directly says is factually incorrect, we'll fix that, but I don't think that's the case here.
 * 4) Abbey Road has been assessed as a good article, which means the quality requirements for edits is higher than most other articles; in particular, so many books have been written about the Beatles, that just citing a book source isn't enough - we need to agree on a consensus of exactly what books we can use. I personally prefer Mark Lewisohn's "Sessions" and Ian MacDonald's "Revolution in the Head", both of which have been critically acclaimed in the mainstream media as excellent research; however I emphasis that that's a personal choice that has a general agreement and is not gospel. In general, a website is not a sufficient source for a GA, particularly one where book sources are in abundance. Walter Everett's book is okay, and I think it is used in places.

I hope that clarifies things; again I have to reiterate that it's nothing personal and is done purely to protect the integrity and quality of the encyclopedia. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  11:39, 29 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Ritchie. Bit confused. The issue appears to be that at Abbey Road we don't acknowledge the Cheshire visit or make any mention of Ruth McCartney. But it's not as if we're offering an alternative scenario there – we're merely omitting details, which might be wise given that the song amounts to 1:31 in length, and the similarly brief description the other medley segments receive. The Golden Slumbers song article, incidentally, does include mention of the visit to his father's home (now in Liverpool) and Ruth. That doesn't answer the question regarding the reliability of this scenario, but my point is that this sort of detail definitely belongs in a song article, but not necessarily in the parent album's.


 * I do rate Walter Everett's book(s) very highly, btw. (Oh, and I've got a lot of books about Dylan, the Stones, etc. too you know!) Cheers, JG66 (talk) 12:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)


 * You're right; I was talking more about general principles above (in order to calm down a new editor upset at having a seemingly good edit reverted). The issue was rather whether or not putting that information in the album's article was important or not; maybe Paul thinks it is, other sources seem to just mention it was inspired by Thomas Dekker and leave it at that. I don't think I'd be particularly against a cursory mention cited to Everett; the problem is there doesn't seem to be an easy way to integrate it into the existing narrative, which denotes a sentence fragment to all the songs in the medley. I'm also a bit suspicious of exactly how notable Ruth McCartney actually is, and while some McCartneys like Stella genuinely are by their own merits, other just seem to skirt a bit too close to WP:INHERITED for my liking. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  12:32, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know the Abbey Road article that well – you do, of course – perhaps I'd be tempted to slip something very brief into a footnote, but I'm always reluctant to half-edit/hit and run. Up to you, R3.
 * Wow, it's uncanny how you've brought up the notability (or not) of some of those associated articles. I was just on the point of nominating an article I simply can't believe we still have: Jim and Mary McCartney. Plenty of rumblings on the talk page there, but I pulled back when I came across this. Hmm. JG66 (talk) 12:50, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I came across that article this morning while researching, and I winced. It looks like a Daily Mail showbiz piece; common sense suggests this is not appropriate writing for a general purpose encyclopedia. It falls through all the cracks in our policies - Jim is a relative to multiple notable people (at least Paul, Mike and Stella), the information is cited to reliable sources (though the weight of those sources is totally off-balance) and it meets the letter of the GA criteria without the spirit. In all honesty, "delete per WP:IAR" wouldn't be too harsh. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  14:07, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm with you – it's just astonishing. And I know there are others, for Category:Lennon family also. JG66 (talk) 15:11, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I have trimmed back the bucket loads of hagiography in the Ruth McCartney article. Theroadislong (talk) 14:36, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Editor of the Week seeking nominations (and a new facilitator)
The Editor of the Week initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly Editor of the Week award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The response from the honorees has been enthusiastic and thankful.

The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations?

Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by submitting your nomination for Editor of the Week today!

In addition, the WikiProject is seeking a new facilitator/coordinator to handle the logistics of the award. Please contact if you are interested in helping with the logistics of running the award in any capacity. Remove your name from here to unsubscribe from further EotW-related messages. Thanks, Kevin ( aka L235 ·&#32; t ·&#32; c) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

RfA
It's time to really do something about people who serially disturb RfA. I've left messages at one voter's talk pge a couple of times over the years and three RfAs ago I said to myself: 'Just once more and I'll escalate. Obviously I keep putting it off, but even if the votes don't do much to sway the consensus, they don't exactly make RfA a warmer and more inviting place. We need to start making an example of such people. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

If it wasn't such a tragic mess, RfA is almost as funny as Black Adder. Plenty of stereotypes to match some of the voters - no prize for guessing which ones, including a female for QE1. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:47, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes Kudpung, to you the Renaissance was just .... things that happened to other people. On a more serious note, Andrew D's latest oppose is being thoroughly humiliated, but people have picked up on points and agreed with them on other RfAs. So I'm not sure if a topic ban will gain traction. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  09:11, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Random question
You seem to be very knowledgeable about the RfA process and I view you as a respected, trustworthy editor. Have you ever considered running for crat? Lepricavark  (talk)  22:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ... only made No. 20 in 1981, alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:03, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I haven't. I do take part in a lot of RfAs, and usually vote the way it closes, but not always, and there are things the crats do such as approve bots that I've never gone anywhere near. I believe crats shouldn't serve on Arbcom, but the odds of me becoming an arb are zero so that's not an issue. I can close a contentious discussion, and there are numerous examples floating around Wikipedia, so that's one positive. The main problem with my RfA was, and probably still is, civility - I'm a nice guy most of the time and especially to newbies (see above discussion about Ruth McCartney, for example) but I don't see eye to eye with long-established admins so much, and serving a ban on Mike V probably hasn't endeared me much to them either. A handful of trips to ANI, hasn't helped either. In my view,  and  would be more worthy RfB candidates. What do my merry band of talk page stalkers think? <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  23:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd concur without hesitation on WSC, even more so since I've known him personally for several years and we have worked together on a few projects. As for me, well, although I'm never rude and never make PA, I certainly don't mince my words sometimes and I call a spade a spade, so I've upset a few trolls over the years. The bar for 'crat is very high. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:26, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The fake breasts will stay with me forever. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:37, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Kudpung, I'd support you in a heartbeat, but because you've been so heavily involved at RfA for so many years, I suspect that if you did run it would get very, uh, interesting. I certainly don't want to push anyone into an unpleasant experience, but I don't like the fact that we've only promoted one crat in the last two years. There is nothing wrong with the current crats, but I think it would be a good idea to add fresh blood to the ranks a little more frequently. Lepricavark   (talk)  23:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The "fresh blood" imagery is perhaps a bit too close to home in a discussion of RfAs and so on. Normally I discourage persons who value their mental health from climbing the WP bureaucratic ladder, but since Ritchie's already an admin, I guess I'll say "in for a dime, in for a dollar". I'd like to be notified of the nom discussion.  E Eng  23:58, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've thought of running for RFB and if RFA was healthier with lots of nominators competing to put forward the good candidates coming forward then I might run, but for now I think it more useful that I nominate people. Of course as a nominator I could simply recuse from my own nominees, but one of the areas where we might need crats it is in crat chats, and if I were an active nominator it would be a rare crat chat where nobody mentioned a recent RFA where I was the nominator.  Ϣere  Spiel  Chequers  09:45, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the RfA nomination; that's much appreciated. But even more so, thanks for overall guidance, and for your open and frank opinions. I value that very much.  Schwede 66  19:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Good luck with the RfA. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  19:42, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Ritchie333!
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Happy New Year! Ritchie333, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

– Davey 2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 13:34, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

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Happy New Year, Ritchie333!
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Happy New Year! Ritchie333, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

 Class 455 ( talk  | stand clear of the doors!)''' 18:32, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

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GA Review mentorship
Hi I saw your name on Good Article help/mentor and wanted some advice supervision as I have taken on Talk:Oakhanger, Hampshire/GA1. Although I have nominated over 100 GAs and am fairly familiar with the criteria etc I have not done a review before, therefore I'd appreciate any comments or guidance.&mdash; Rod talk 16:41, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't see any issue with the review as you've done it. You're right that 12K of prose is about right for a small village of the size and importance, so there probably isn't much more to expand. I think having a collapsible box for the landmarks is a bit redundant, and what is being presented as "British History Online" as a source should be A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 3 (it's a common mistake that people don't seem to quite appreciate that BHO is simply an aggregate of out of copyright works). <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  20:51, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks - but re BHO - some of the works (certainly for Somerset) from VCH are still in copyright. I will point that one out & see how the response goes otherwise if there is anything else please just let me know.&mdash; Rod talk 20:57, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

4th GA Cup - Round 2
--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:22, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Ritchie333!
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Happy New Year! Ritchie333, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

Donner60 (talk) 06:59, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

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Norwegian Wood
Would you be interested, or know someone who is, in reviewing the Beatles song "Norwegian Wood"? This one should not take too long because it nearly passed the GA process the first time around. Let me know what you think, thank you!TheGracefulSlick (talk) 08:04, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * All done. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  11:50, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

"We can live in hope"
Posting here so as not to piss in the soup at the RFA, but regarding we can live in hope, we're talking here about someone who cites Chillum as his inspiration on his userpage, has WP:NPA linked (twice!) at the top of his talkpage and twice more in a massive garish editnotice for his talkpage, and boasts on his userpage about being a member of the #wikipedia-en IRC channel. Assuming this passes, do you want to start taking bets now as to when the first "I don't like you" block comes? &#8209; Iridescent 20:01, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, he doesn't does he? Well my support vote was on a knife edge (if I'm asking questions at RfA it means I'm undecided), and hopefully you can read between the lines to see that it was a "can't quite find enough of a reason to oppose". Maybe I should have gone neutral. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  20:05, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * To be technically accurate, he doesn't specifically say the words "Chillum is my inspiration", but he does have a lengthy quote cut-and-paste from him about how admins shouldn't sully their hands with any involvement with content, quoted with approval. If you expand the collapsed userboxes, all the usual "I am the scourge of the unworthy" warning signals are there, too. &#8209; Iridescent 20:14, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Just spotted it. I don't usually pay attention to anyone's user pages, so that'll be one thing to remember to check next time. That's a deal breaker, so a switch to oppose it has to be. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  20:19, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Need Contents from delted page
Could you please be so kind to e-mail me the contents from my deleted page Draft:NUUP

Email ID:  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manivannan184 (talk • contribs) 14:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)


 * No problem - text emailed. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  14:56, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Question
I see you protected the talk page at ; are you by chance friendly with him, or was this just a request that you happened to see and oblige? TomStar81 (Talk) 08:22, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * He sent me a request to protect it via email after he had retired. Talk pages are not normally full-protected, so I won't object to any other admin lifting it if they feel it is appropriate. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  10:41, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand, I ask because his name came up in an article audit for milhist in 2016. Stated more simply, he has some barnstars coming his direction, but I didn't want to unprotect the talk space to add the barnstars and thanks so I was curious if there was a way to send word to him for what he earned last years, or at the very least to say thanks for helping us. TomStar81 (Talk) 11:05, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I've emailed him to let him know about your milhist awards page. As I understand it, he wants to avoid Wikipedia completely at the moment. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  11:09, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. According to my list, he earned the Epic Barnstar, WikiChevrons, World War Barnstar, English Barnstar of National Merit, and Biography Barnstar for his work on Winston Churchill as writer and List of regicides of Charles I. If you could pass that along, I'd be grateful. TomStar81 (Talk) 11:17, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have passed it along, and the general feeling from both of us is we are both happy with milhist's continual progress as possibly the best project on WP. I would contribute but it's not my area of expertise, so I have to settle for smaller fish like WikiProject London Transport instead. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  17:02, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Ritchie333!
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Happy New Year! Ritchie333, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

Bigpoliticsfan (talk) 00:08, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

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6 RfAs?
I've never seen so many RfAs active at once, it's making me consider running. :p— CYBERPOWER  ( Happy 2017 ) 22:45, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I can only see five :-/ As I said in round one, you (probably) have a need to use the admin tools for technical abilities and you have shown no interest in using them for disciplinary purposes. I have to be honest and say you will still pick up opposition if you ran now, but given the previous run and the changes in RfA criteria, there's sufficiently leeway for you to pass now, provided somebody can write a convincing nomination statement. Ideally, I'd like to run with a trusted co-nominator; I'm just not sure who. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:35, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry I miscounted. I know I will never fly through an RfA.  I'm not much a content editor but my bot, InternetArchiveBot is what I would show for my best contribution to Wikipedia, though it is still an ongoing project.  My previous nominators might be willing to nominate again, there's probably User:Kudpung who may also wish to nominate, but not sure.  I am very familiar with the username policies, so WP:UAA would be a place I would start working too.— CYBERPOWER  ( Happy 2017 ) 14:13, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * nominated you first time, so he might be in a better place than me to offer advice too. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  14:15, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll make my decision to run, based on their comments, (they've been pinged), since they are very insightful when it comes to RfA.— CYBERPOWER  ( Happy 2017 ) 14:20, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * , wish you hadn't mentioned it on RFA talk, though. O Fortuna!  ...Imperatrix mundi.  14:22, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Why not?— CYBERPOWER  ( Happy 2017 ) 14:27, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Better to come out of the sun on this one, loins girded and strong in mind and body (metaphorically); that kind of tentative hinting looks like you're looking for reassurance. Why would you do that: when you don't need it. OK? Mind you, bugger all people actualy read the Talk, so you should be fine  ;)  O Fortuna!  ...Imperatrix mundi.  14:38, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Not reassurance, I've already ran once before and failed at 74%. I have high self-esteem, and and RfA regardless of how it ends, will not change that.  It didn't the last.— CYBERPOWER  ( Happy 2017 ) 15:37, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * 6 7 RfAs? Dat GuyTalkContribs 14:23, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I would be glad to co-nom. I always thought Cyber got a raw deal at his first RfA. "Oppose because you need to fix some of your bots"? Come on! IMO this could be a really good time for Cyber to go for it again. --MelanieN (talk) 14:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC) P.S. Obviously, if he can recruit some longer-serving or better-known admins than me as noms, he should go with them. --MelanieN (talk) 14:43, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :-)— CYBERPOWER  ( Happy 2017 ) 15:37, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

I'd be happy to provide a nomination for Cyberpower, or will note my strong support if you already have enough people lined up (I may be old fashioned, but I think that 2-3 nominators is plenty!). <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 16:13, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have started two RfAs that are currently live, which is more than quite enough, so I will duck out of this and leave those who can write a more convincing nomination to come forward and kick the wheels in motion. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  16:16, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I would definitely love to have User:WJBscribe as a nominator, and User:MelanieN as a co-nom. I'm waiting for User:TParis and User:Kudpung to respond with their comments.— CYBERPOWER  ( Happy 2017 ) 17:00, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * You might ask MusikAnimal too; didn't he co-nom you in your previous RfA? Like Ritchie, I will gladly bow out if you can get another nominator of the calibre of WJBscribe or TParis or Kudpung or MusikAnimal. (I agree with WJBscribe about 2-3 nominators being the limit; there was recently an RfA with four nominators and some people criticized it for that reason!) --MelanieN (talk) 18:26, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Funny enough, I was thinking about this yesterday.--v/r - TP 19:20, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * @MelanieN: I think you do yourself a disservice. You are very well respected and highly active admin - I would be very happy to see a co-nom from you if you felt minded to add one. If anyone does want to co-nom the page is now ready for you: Requests for adminship/Cyberpower678 2. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 21:49, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the vote of confidence. I have been thinking about some wording and will post something there shortly. --MelanieN (talk) 01:05, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd love to be a 3rd co-nom, but if Kudpung or Ritchie333 wanted to do it, then I'd be happy to defer to them.--v/r - TP 02:15, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It's good to see three trusted nominations on this; the only thing I might add is that CP is personally responsible for keeping the wheels turning on the RfA process; the summary charts at WP:RFA are driven off his bot. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  10:55, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Diffs
I'll keep an eye out, but the problem is, every single diff is going to look like this no matter what the output happens to be. Also, the page revision coming out of that diff will look exactly as it would if you added the template now, even if at the time it was added it was obviously wrong (as that one was). Nikkimaria (talk) 02:38, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Understood. Basically I wanted cast iron evidence that Beatley was being disruptive; the diffs show he is adding data based on unverified content that may be wrong, and instead I think he should be trying to source the dates here. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  11:09, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Cafe Royal Cocktail Book
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Liverpool Street station
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Liverpool Street station you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Esquivalience -- Esquivalience (talk) 20:01, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Potential Revdel
Hi Ritchie333 - I just reverted an ip's comment on Talk:Grand Canyon. I saw you were on the list of admins for revdel, so thought you could take a look at it. Take care.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 02:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Eh, kinda tame; harmlessly juvenile, I think. I personally wouldn't dignify it with a revdel. Your (and Ritchie's) mileage may vary though. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 02:59, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * (sorry about the RfA, I !voted support and don't really understand what the opposition was getting at) I agree that this isn't worth revision deleting. It's not a personal attack or a threat to you, and anything other than revert, block, ignore is asking for attention. Which is precisely what vandals and trolls want. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:40, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * That was my thought as well, but I thought an admin should take a look. (And thanks for your support). Take care.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 14:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Incoming beer-carrying homing pigeon...
Mike1901 (talk) 20:31, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Hey, and Happy New Year! I never got a response to this - but just want to check you got it and lack of response was due to lack of interest and/or busy-ness (either is perfectly fine!) rather than the pigeon delivering it being drunk. :-) Mike1901 (talk) 16:35, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I did get your email, but for one reason or another I never got round to dealing with it, as I have a pile of potential RfA nominations and it takes me a while to get round to addressing them. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  12:24, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Follow up
Ritchie. Away from the glare of Cyber's successful looking RfA, I want to follow up your action where you answered an additional candidate question of mine. You will be well aware of the long-running issues related to the atmosphere at RfA. I have been vilified by one of your good friends as a disruptive RfA editor, part of the so-called "anti-admin brigade". I have even been accused of having been blocked a dozen times. No matter that this is a wholly illegitimate & unfounded personal attack, it seems that mud sticks with some people with long memories. So put yourself in my position. Suppose I had the temerity to comment in a support !vote or attempt to answer a candidate's question for them, especially where one of your friends was a nominator? There is no doubt that certain admin colleagues would have kicked up a stink with the usual threats to run me off the project. So why was it ok for you to do the same, and then casually pass it off as an attempt to seek support votes for the candidate? Leaky Caldron  10:05, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you're reading too much into this. AFAIK you're a mostly retired editor who has done lots of good work in the past, and who makes well-founded and legitimate criticisms of the admin corps. I do not have any issue with your oppose !vote, which is a civil and well-researched opinion.
 * I don't think any of my actual good friends are on Wikipedia much, most of them are either unaware of what I do on here or bemused why I'd choose to spend so much time on it. If you're talking about, well we have a mutual interest in trying to get better admin candidates but we don't see eye to eye on everything, and I suspect if you asked us both on our opinion on , you'd get a very different answer. (Mine would be to focus on things like this) A couple of my regular on-wiki colleagues (most obviously and ) are very much in the so-called "anti-admin brigade", but they do good work for the encyclopedia, and it's more that they don't like admins who are up their own rears (naming no names but you can probably work it out from my posts to various user talk pages and AN / ANI threads). Indeed, the whole reason I got into long-term WP editing was because I was sick of complaints about how disruptive and abusive the admin corps were, and wanted to do something about it.
 * Bottom line is that RfA is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. At most, maybe 300 people are interested in it, nobody else in the world really cares. That's what I was trying to get at. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  20:59, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Fact is, I KNOW, that if I answered a candidate's question I would get short shrift and would not expect support for my actions from anyone, friend or not. Unless you are a nominator "assisting" as WJBscribe did, surely the ability of the candidate to answer questions is a critical aspect of forming an opinion and should be left to them. Thanks for answering anyway. Leaky  Caldron  21:15, 8 January 2017 (UTC)


 * If you want to be liked by everyone as an admin, remain level-headed, fair, diligent, helpful, constructive, avoid ANI, write articles, and forget about WP politics; recognise those who improve the project, and those who hinder it; be able to differentiate between those who are baited and those who bait; be able to tell the diffence between those who are disruptive for the sake of being disruptive and those who come across as disruptive but who are actually trying to save a particular article from the disruptor; but above all, be normal and operate with an air of common bloody sense. Those admins who I consider to be friends are all of the above; those who I don't can be found on my shit list. Unfortunately, I've all too frequently come accross idiot administrators and their latchers on who have seen to it that I no longer write good content for the encyclopaedia. Now I just respond to pings, talk to friends on their talk pages, tidy up and protect those articles I have written towards FA, and defend myself when I get dragged to ANI (if I really must). Other than that, I hold everything else about the encyclopaedia in utter contempt.   Cassianto <sup style="font-family:Papyrus;">Talk   21:54, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Response
—<b style="color:#E22">Mel</b><b style="color:#F20">bourne</b><b style="color:#F73">Star</b> ☆ <sup style="color:#407">talk 13:14, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Gammadyne Mailer
After you restored the article on Gammadyne Mailer, I rewrote it in an attempt to solve the problems that it had been flagged for. Soon after, another user deleted the article again without any discussion. Is there any way you can undelete the article so that it can go through a proper debate process? Grozo (talk) 05:12, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * There was a deletion debate at Articles for deletion/Gammadyne Mailer which was closed by as "delete". I'll see if I can get their view on why they chose to close it, but while the AfD was sparsely attended, nobody voted "keep" so it seems inevitable that it would be deleted. The problem of restoring it is that another admin would then be perfectly within their rights to delete it again per WP:CSD, so unfortunately I think we're a bit between a rock and a hard place. Sorry. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  21:13, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * All of the comments in the debate occurred in November before the article was rewritten. Grozo (talk) 01:53, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * While that is correct, the article was deleted by on 10 December. It is perhaps unfortunate that only one comment was made after that rewrite. The only other option is to raise a deletion review to see if the debate should be scrapped, restarted, or some other variation of the process. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  14:09, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Apologies
Sorry Ritchie, I did enflame Requests for adminship/Cyberpower678 2. Though I find the lack of AGF given to you to be horrid and have made a note of it on the page. It will be my last edit to that convo. I think somebody should hat it. Feel free to do so. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:19, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I should have quit while I was ahead on the talk page upthread. Still, it did motivate me to think, "fuck it, I really have got to get some article work done around here", and lo and behold I have tossed another GA on the pile, which makes me feel better. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  17:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

By the way, do you know JavaScript?
If so, I have some questions for you. The Transhumanist 12:47, 6 January 20s17 (UTC)


 * I have written JavaScript code as a professional software engineer and for fun (quick ego trip); however I'll say this that knowledge of the language does not mean you know every single framework ever put on top of it (of which there are now many), and if the question is "can you write me a program that does 'x'", the answer is "I don't have time". <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  17:05, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. I'm in the process of writing scripts that work on Wikipedia, and the only framework that I know of that is relevant (loaded by default) is JQuery. I wish to become proficient at writing in JavaScript, and so having someone else write the programs for me would defeat that purpose. But I get stuck from time to time, and finding the solution can be like searching for a specific needle in a stack of needles, while the answer might be ultra obvious to a seasoned programmer.  Also, it would be nice to have someone experienced look over my sourcecode to point out problems and better approaches.
 * The program I'm currently working on modifies the viewing of pages on Wikipedia with respect to lists (currently it processes bulleted lists only, regardless of what page they are on). I'll be adding functionality to the script over time, and it is currently called User:The Transhumanist/anno.js. Once I'm done with the present feature, which is hiding/showing annotations, I'll be adding a feature to collapse/expand multi-level lists incrementally.
 * At the moment, what it does is toggle between hiding and showing annotations, without having to add DOM elements to millions of pages first in order for it to work correctly on those pages.
 * The problem is that when you hide or show annotations, it changes the length of the content being viewed, and jolts the viewing port and the user from what was being viewed. So if annotations above the reader's location are removed, he is all-of-a-sudden looking at text further along in the document, and has to scroll up to resume where he left off. If he then toggles the annotations back on, annotations that are added back in earlier in the document push the text he is reading down toward or off the bottom of the viewport. So now he has to scroll down to see what he had been looking at.
 * Note that I'm not merely showing/hiding the toggled material. I'm actually removing/restoring it.  This is so that pages don't have to be modified by an editor first to be compatible with the script.
 * What I'd like to do is have the top line of the topmost bulleted item retain its position on the screen when the toggle is pressed, with everything else being updated above and below it. If there are no bulleted items on the screen, then the topmost line of text should retain its position.
 * I don't have a clue where to begin.
 * This leads me to my second question: How should I proceed!? The Transhumanist 00:02, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * P.S.: I'm currently reading JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (Sixth edition), but it will take me awhile to get through it. Hopefully, I'll finish my first iteration of it by the end of this month. -TT
 * What I'd like to do is have the top line of the topmost bulleted item retain its position on the screen when the toggle is pressed, with everything else being updated above and below it. If there are no bulleted items on the screen, then the topmost line of text should retain its position.
 * I don't have a clue where to begin.
 * This leads me to my second question: How should I proceed!? The Transhumanist 00:02, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * P.S.: I'm currently reading JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (Sixth edition), but it will take me awhile to get through it. Hopefully, I'll finish my first iteration of it by the end of this month. -TT
 * This leads me to my second question: How should I proceed!? The Transhumanist 00:02, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * P.S.: I'm currently reading JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (Sixth edition), but it will take me awhile to get through it. Hopefully, I'll finish my first iteration of it by the end of this month. -TT
 * P.S.: I'm currently reading JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (Sixth edition), but it will take me awhile to get through it. Hopefully, I'll finish my first iteration of it by the end of this month. -TT
 * P.S.: I'm currently reading JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (Sixth edition), but it will take me awhile to get through it. Hopefully, I'll finish my first iteration of it by the end of this month. -TT

Some specific questions...

 * 1) Are you familiar with JQuery?
 * 2) What are the problems (if any) with the script User:The Transhumanist/anno.js?
 * 3) How do you determine the current viewport location with respect to a regex match?
 * 4) How do you set the viewport location relative to a regex match?

I look forward to your answers. The Transhumanist 00:47, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't have much more than passing knowledge with JQuery, simply because the sites I have maintained were from a time when it was less established and we wanted as little dependencies as possible.
 * Regarding the specific problem, the first question to ask yourself is - "do any other sites do this?" Find another website that controls lists in this way, examine the DOM in something like Google Chrome's developer view, and see what the difference is. If you can't find anything suitable, that might indicate you're trying to solve the wrong problem and need to step back and take a completely different approach.
 * The closest analogy I've got is http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/tools/upload/ (don't worry, you can just browse the form without having a relevant file) which is similar to MediaWiki's upload form with a lot more bells and whistles. The div marked  starts with a style of , then when the "Show all galleries" button is clicked, it calls a function in http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/extensions/GalleryEdit/Common.js - driveGalleries. This swaps the div's height to 400px, and starts loading data in via a HTML list, and if there isn't enough space for all the galleries to fit, you'll just get a scrollbar. I think this is conceptually similar to what you want to do, right? <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  16:22, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. I don't think so, because the DOM elements I'm homing in on do not have any properties specified. They are not divs, they are <li>'s. When the user activates the script's toggle, I want the script to do this:
 * Before it changes the content of the document being viewed (by replacing regex matches to null), find the first <li> in the view port and record the part of it that comes before its annotation (if any) and determine the <li> 's location in the view port.
 * Then, after the program changes the content of the page (by using regex to delete all annotations), adjust the position of the viewport so that the <li> it recorded is back in the same location in the viewport it was before.
 * Maybe I can dynamically insert a div, so that I have something to home in on later? But I still would have to identify which <li> is the topmost in the viewport. Then I could div it, and then I could determine the location of that div. Right?
 * But how do you identify <li> 's and their locations in the first place? Is there a way to apply regex to just the content of the viewport? If so, I can use regex to modify the first match only, which will naturally be the topmost match in the viewport.
 * I've never seen a website that toggles annotations in lists, ever. And I suspect I was very lucky to find a script that uses regex to modify the page content of DOM elements directly, so that I can physically remove content rather than show/hide the elements by their class names. The reason for this approach is so that I don't have to use AWB to markup up annotations with a DOM element in millions of pages just so that I can hide them with this script. So the script strips them out via regex. The script saves the state of the page (in local storage) before it does its content deletion, for restoration when the user presses the toggle again.
 * Finding a website that does something similar would probably be very unlikely, as almost everyone I've talked to has told me that modifying the html directly is taboo, and that I should be showing/hiding DOM elements (by their IDs or Classes). The problem with that is, that annotations are not the specific content of a DOM element, and there are perhaps millions of pages with annotated <li> elements on them. And millions more that may contain annotations in the future. Editing those pages to add DOM elements would be very intrusive, and time consuming. It would take weeks if not months to do it with AWB, assuming nobody complained, and this would also create a monstrous ongoing maintenance chore. So that's why the regex approach to simply nuke the annotations.
 * Almost everyone out there shows/hides content by specifying DOM elements by their IDs or classes. Inspecting websites via the console in order to find one that does it via regex seems like looking for a needle in a haystack. Is there a search engine that can search websites' javascript, that will also allow you to search for regex syntax? Or how about searching webpages' html directly so you can search their embedded scripts?
 * Pertaining to JQuery, I don't know JavaScript well enough to know when I'm using JQuery and when I'm not, because so far, I've mostly been hobbling together pieces from existing scripts. I just know there's some JQuery in there.  I either fiddle with it until it works the way I want it to, or I google parts of the line of code I'm confused about, and the tutorial pages or forum postings this leads me to don't indicate whether they are talking about JQuery or not. They just speak in context, providing the answer, or clues about how to adjust the properties of an object, for example.
 * Thank you for taking the time to talk to a JavaScript noob. Talking it out helps with thinking up new search strings to better google the hell out of the problem with.
 * I very much look forward to your further replies. The Transhumanist 19:19, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Questions
I am inquiring as to why you deleted the Miss Black Universe Organization page. The organization is new, but there were several links that show the relevance and legitimacy of the program. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KrisangelaW (talk • contribs) 18:49, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The problem is that when I did a search for news sources, the results didn't seem to be anything about this Miss Black Universe, so I couldn't obviously improve it. We can't use official websites and Facebook pages to write articles; the information has to come from third-party news and magazine sources. In the meantime, I've moved the article to Draft:Miss Black Universe - since it is a new event, I expect coverage will appear over time, and as and when it does, we can move it back to mainspace. (PS: Is now a good time to confess to my talk page stalkers that I think Michelle Obama is smoking hot....) <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  19:42, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Keddie murders
Any good now? Also, was wondering about a page move- 'Keddie cabin murders, 1981' or the like? O Fortuna! ...Imperatrix mundi.  19:16, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't go running to FAC just yet, but it looks much better, properly sourced, no unsourced gory details which really weren't necessary. Hopefully that has put a lid on things. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  23:01, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

A picky point
I concede immediately that this is exceedingly picky, but I have a knee-jerk reaction to phrasing such as the following:

"...he now has a good score of about 83% called correctly,..." (Requests for adminship/Primefac 2)

I prefer something along the line of "83% match to the ultimate decision" or something like that. While I'm a fan of our consensus based approach, it is consensus based, and not a magical identification of "truth". I have no doubt that either of us could track down situations where we feel the consensus decision was not the correct decision. Do you disagree?

On a more positive note, I do want to applaud you for the work you are doing tracking down potential admin candidates. I'm happy to see how many decent candidates have been proposed recently.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  17:03, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I've addressed this point at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship/Primefac 2. I'm surprised by the confusion, but then I have supported previous RfAs with comments like "even when consensus didn't go their way, they talked a good argument", and I have always taken the AfD "score" tool as a useful list of AfDs. Certainly when I looked at what the tool generated, and then at the debates where consensus didn't align with his !vote, I thought "those are all fine, no concerns". I didn't specifically mention this because had already demolished this silly belief that it's "all about the numbers" on the Optional candidate poll page. For that matter, my AfD "score" has been getting "worse" since I became an admin, as I tend to only focus on difficult debates that I can't easily close and feel sticking a !vote one way or the other will help.


 * In terms of admin candidates, I am researching some more now and reaching out to them, and I believe is doing the same. If you have any suggestions for who might be suitable, I'll have a rummage. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  17:17, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

DYK for FDT (song)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Bir Tawil
Thanks for the semi-protection of this article. Given the two edits just made to it by User:Ryantheking (and reverted by Clpo), it may require some period of full protection, and perhaps a short block of Ryantheking. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:38, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Meh, probably not the latter, as he appears to be an intermittent editor. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:06, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll leave the block for now, as the last revert doesn't appear to have been disturbed. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  00:05, 12 January 2017 (UTC)