User talk:Roads4117/Archive 2 (August 2022)

A2216 - copy-and-paste merging long-standing articles into road articles
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from A2216 road into another page. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g.,. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted copied template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. Padgriffin Griffin's Nest 07:18, 4 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Information icon4.svg There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Padgriffin Griffin's Nest 07:45, 4 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I have reverted my changes. User:Roads4117(talk) 06:52, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Indentation
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, discussion pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments, as you did at WT:HWY, is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Even making spelling and grammatical corrections in others' comments is generally frowned upon, as it tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:45, 31 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Just to follow up, please don't remove the indentation like that. It is standard that a reply to a comment is indented underneath it, as this comment will be once I save it. When you removed the indents, the context of who replied to whom was completely lost.
 * Also, it is very bad form to change the writing of others, such as to merge intentionally separate paragraphs together.  Imzadi 1979  →   15:49, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Imzadi1979 Thanks for letting me know. I will use this message when editing in the future. Roads4117 (talk) 15:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Roads4117, FYI the long explanation is at Indentation. (which means that your reply to Imzadi1979 immediately before this one should have begun with two colons, not just one. So I've used three assuming that you will wish to correct. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:04, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @John Maynard Friedman Thank you for letting me know. Roads4117 (talk) 16:06, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * While I'm here, I thought you might like to know that most people delete the robotic disambiguation error notices [above] after they have corrected the problem. It avoids talk page clutter. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

If you change the length of a road...
... you need to provide the evidence. (Which is what I intended to write in my edit summary but accidentally hit return instead of backspace.) John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:08, 5 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I use SABRE Roads, although I'm guessing that is a secondary source, and if so, I don't know what the primary source is. Roads4117 (talk) 16:31, 6 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi Roads4117. You are right - SABRE is a secondary source, as anyone can make changes without any form of editorial control, plus it is unstable (for the same reason, that it can be cited in one version then a change gets made to the SABRE article text, such that the citation on Wikipedia is then contradicted when the SABRE article gets visited). SABRE is OK as a reference for non-contentious points, eg historical diversions of roads, dates of opening etc, although it is still far better if possible to do a quick internet search for more reliable sources, eg government-published web pages, national newspaper articles. WP:V explains in more detail why Wikipedia needs more authoritative sources than SABRE does. In the specific context of road lengths, it is viable to use (AND CITE!) Google Maps Directions, as crucially this is verifiable, ie another editor can visit it and check for themselves that the data is valid, and it comes from a publisher whose data on the subject is generally respected. A note though to just ensure that the directions displayed do not take any shortcuts from the actual road route. If better information is available (eg a gov.uk or constructor's report on the construction of the road) then that should be used instead. Baldy Bill ( sharpen the razor &#124; see my reflection ) 11:13, 9 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Actually, primary vs. secondary doesn't quite mean that. WP:PSTS explains the difference between primary, secondary, and tertiary sources.
 * Rather, the issue is that SABRE is user-generated, not if it is secondary. Because SABRE's wiki is not subject to editorial oversight and can be easily changed, it's not a reliable source for our purposes.  Imzadi 1979  →   19:22, 1 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Google maps is a bit iffy because it tries to be too helpful. You would need to set a route from Charing Cross to Edinburgh Castle (?), specify "avoid motorways and even then you would need to eyeball the route to add vias to ensure it doesn't take any short cuts. Conversely, the A1 is not the Great North Road, so many bypasses are correctly given as today's A1. Some editors consider Google maps unreliable and might well revert (IMO, it is good enough). So a diligent search of the MoT pages might be more effective. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:40, 9 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks - I will have a look. Roads4117 (talk) 18:51, 9 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi. When searching on Google for a road length, I can't find any gov.uk reports etc. Does anyone have any suggestions of any useful websites? Thanks. Roads4117 (talk) 10:22, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * You could try asking at the talk page of WikiProject Highways/United Kingdom? [btw, you can't assume that anyone is watching your talk page for any longer than a week after they last left a message for you, so I don't know if anyone else saw your request.] If all else fails, I would use google maps. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:07, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * OK then, will do. Roads4117 (talk) 17:20, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Tried Google Maps, although it tries to take a shortcut, will try asking the talk page at WikiProject Highways/United Kingdom. Roads4117 (talk) 17:42, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * On the desktop version of Google maps, you can drag the line showing the route to where you want it to go. Or you can add vias, which may give a more reproducible URL. But someone on the wikiproject might give you a more general solution. Or maybe it is just too much effort, which is why nobody has already done it?
 * PS if you want to get the attention of someone in particular to a page they might not be watching, use template:ping --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:00, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Contacted WikiProject Highways/United Kingdom. Roads4117 (talk) 19:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-government/products/mastermap-highways is likely an authoritative source, but you'll need to sign up for an open data license (they're fairly easy to get on this side of the pond). For Google maps (the web version), you can click and drag on the middle of the line to set waypoints. - Floydian τ ¢ 21:31, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks - I will have a look at it. Roads4117 (talk) 07:25, 13 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I can't find the road lengths on this website. I am using the app edition of Google Maps. Roads4117 (talk) 07:13, 17 August 2022 (UTC) Roads4117 (talk)


 * No, it doesn't work on the app version, you can't even drag the line to where you want to go. You have to use the web version on a desktop or laptop, --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:08, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Ok Roads4117 (talk) 07:02, 18 August 2022 (UTC)


 * That's because it's GIS data and not a simple table of lengths. You'll need to download a program like QGIS and run queries on the data. There are lots of tutorials that you can Google that will show you how to do that. –Fredddie™ 01:11, 18 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Ok then - will have a look. Roads4117 (talk) 07:03, 18 August 2022 (UTC)