User talk:Robert McClenon/Radiant-Xiong

Radiant
So, you're the chosen forum? Radiant has gone running to you? Excellent. Do you declare yourself free of bias in this dispute? Who do you suggest as co-mediators?

Here is my initial statement: Radiant has no place within this Community or on this Project. His agenda is base, self-interested, and unalterably opposed to our cornerstone principles; his methods are dishonest and manipulative. I have no personal opinion about the man/woman/boy/girl who hides behind this username; all I say is my criticism of its actions -- which are intolerable. If we cannot discuss each other's actions, we no longer have even the illusion of a Community. There is hardly a more civil way to describe such uncivil behavior.

Here is my initial proposal: Radiant and I are each to suspend all editing activity or other participation in this Project. This is out of consideration for the rest of the Community; a one-on-one dispute ought not enlarge itself to surface here, there, and everywhere. The current condition is that whenever we meet, on any page, the conflict emerges.

You shall create a page -- somewhere, on this wiki or another -- and my adversary and I will there exhaust ourselves in unrestricted argument, demonstrating to the best of our respective abilities our charges and grievances. I should hope all manner of comment be expressly permitted there. If any effort is made to label some comments as personal attacks, then equal effort must be made to label others as damned disinformation -- and then all the referees are in the mix, which seems pointless.

Radiant entrails a number of puppets -- meat or sock, I don't know and don't care. I do insist that they all be excluded from our dispute. If it insists on bringing buddies, then so shall I -- and demand that they be recognized as legitimate, de jure.

This arena should be explicitly closed to all other editors. Again, let us limit our dispute to the minimum size. Mediators only may comment on Talk, but Radiant and I will confine ourselves exclusively to comment in one, single place -- until an outcome.

I find lying intolerable, and all the shady gray areas immediately adjacent to outright lies to be even more disreputable. You will have to ask Radiant why I am intolerable to it. In any case, it is far past time to discover which of us will be chained up in the corner. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 20:14, 2005 September 5 (UTC)

Fragmented discussion merged from User talk:Xiong -- please avoid fragmented discussions. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 20:36, 2005 September 5 (UTC)


 * No. Your message on my talk page misses the point.  I was not the chosen forum.  I merely saw that Radiant had requested mediation as the chosen forum.  I was only saying that it appeared that you were attacking Radiant.  I suggest that you request that the mediation be confidential, as it usually is.  Please be civil.  Robert McClenon 20:30, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

You declare yourself uninvolved? Either you are the impartial judge before which Radiant has chosen to present its side of the matter; or you are one of its partisans, brought in to crush me out of hand. You can certainly bow out -- that's your right, and I wouldn't blame you if you kicked us both out and made a hasty exit from the dispute. But right now, you are the only real thing that Radiant has mentioned -- all that talk about RfM is a smokescreen, since I see no such request on that page.

I take very real offense at your repeated insistence that I be civil. I am being civil; I have restricted myself to facts, avoiding argument ad hominum. Unfortunately, it is not within your power to insist that all facts be pleasant. This is a very confrontational, very manipulative, very dishonest editor, whose skillful manipulation of Community norms does not elevate it in my eyes. We're not here to contest the content of Statue of Liberty in disinterested fashion. I am here to contest Radiant's conduct within this Community and Project. Unavoidably, that is a personal matter.

Please let me know -- here -- when you have chosen to displace this dispute to another forum. I am only too willing that it be handled discreetly. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 20:49, 2005 September 5 (UTC)