User talk:Robertsky/Archive 4

__ARCHIVEDTALK__

Modern Paganism move close
I missed the discussion regarding the proposal to move Modern Paganism to Modern paganism. While there was clearly a snowball to agree with the single point of Wiki-policy raised in the new discussion. Strikingly, given it does not appear that anyone involved in that discussion had more than a passing familiarity with the topic, none of the participants seemed to address the discussion made during the previous proposal of the exact same move. In that proposal there was significant discussion of whether capitalization is used academically and by practitioners. Similarly, there does not seem to have been any attempt made to engage with the editors involved in the previous proposal. Darker Dreams (talk) 08:07, 26 September 2022 (UTC)


 * @Darker Dreams hmm... OK? and what you trying to drive at? Seeking an explanation? Reopening the discussion? Or start a new RM? Enlighten me. Also, why didn't you approach me earlier, having made a somewhat related edit approximate 4 days after the close (which would be +/- 1 day of a normal close)? I would likely have reopened the discussion there and then.
 * I shall answer my own questions, lest I forget or get too caught up IRL.
 * I have no answers or theories why the participants didn't address the prior discussion, nor do I assume other editors' familiarity or lackof of the topic, but I am unaware of any policy/guidelines to compulsorily notify prior participants (let me know if otherwise). However, if they (or anyone for that matter) had also approach me earlier as well, I may have reopened the discussion as I had done before (User_talk:Robertsky/Archive_3, User talk:Robertsky/Archive_3). SNOW closes, being WP:SNOW, the discussion would likely have been reopened if there's a reasonable objection raised promptly. At this point, some 29-30 days after the close, there have already been some other RMs and non-RM moves based on this move. I am only aware of a couple RMs, the ones I closed, but eyeballing the category tree, there seems be more articles being moved unilaterally since. Reopening this will definitely be messy, since reopening means that this article's move will have to be reverted, other downstreams RMs reopened and non-RM moves reverted. If you wish to seek a second opinion at WP:MRV, you are welcome. But it may be more productive to have a well formulated RM argument acknowledging the SNOW close of this RM, request that this RM shouldn't be procedurally closed despite that because of the reasons why it should have remained at 'Modern Paganism'. At the very least, I hope it is seen as valid reason for yet another RM raised this close to the previous RM.
 * Did I miss anything else? Let me know! Cheers – robertsky (talk) 13:51, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't do anything with it earlier because I wasn't (and am still not) sure what the best course of action (reopen, start new RM, something else) is. I made one easy but high-visibility edit, and then got busy IRL. I'm actually surprised at the vigor with which people have gone about adjusting that capitalization. Darker Dreams (talk) 04:29, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Darker Dreams sigh.. oh wells. your hands are not tied. when you are sure and have decided, do what you decide to do. :) – robertsky (talk) 14:43, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 52
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Prasanna Kumar bezawada
It says on the talk page that you moved the page but still the b is lowercase. DareshMohan (talk) 01:39, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @DareshMohan missed that. sorry. have filed a request at WP:RM/TR since the target page is admin protected. – robertsky (talk) 02:20, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted
Hi Robertsky, I just wanted to let you know that I have [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&page=User%3ARobertsky added] the autopatrolled user right to your account. This means that pages you create will automatically be marked as 'reviewed', and no longer appear in the new pages feed. Autopatrolled is assigned to prolific creators of articles, where those articles do not require further review, and may have been requested on your behalf by someone else. It doesn't affect how you edit; it is used only to manage the workload of new page patrollers.

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Move review for Modern paganism
An editor has asked for a Move review of Modern paganism. Because you closed the move discussion for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review. Per our previous discussion. Darker Dreams (talk) 14:51, 19 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @Darker Dreams thanks for the ping. 😎 – robertsky (talk) 15:07, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

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Nomination of Anthony Fok for deletion
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Mirza (other uses)
Hello, Robertsky,

Were you going to stick with this as a page title? I haven't seen other pages titled "Noun (other uses)". I think you should either find a more appropriate page title or tag it for speedy deletion or for a discussion at WP:RFD. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 08:08, 13 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @Liz I was just processing a request at WP:RM/TR on this,and was also pondering on which CSD creteria to tag actually. G6? 'not a valid dab qualifier'? – robertsky (talk) 08:10, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 53
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Move of Representative Office of Northern Cyprus to the United States
Hi Robertsky, thanks for closing and moving the page Representative Office of Northern Cyprus to the United States. Per WP:MV, please don't forget to update the first sentence and navigational templates. Thanks. Vpab15 (talk) 11:13, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @Vpab15 Noted. Have been dealing with redirects turning into dab pages so often that I have totally missed the redirect in the navigational template. Thanks for the reminder. – robertsky (talk) 02:09, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Vpab15 (talk) 09:36, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Taemin
Hi, thank you for closing the move request. Can you also rename Lee Tae-min discography so it would be consistent? Thanks a lot. Xia talk to me  14:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @Xia I am working on the articles in category tree. :) – robertsky (talk) 14:42, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xia ✅. I have also filed the categories for speedy renames. – robertsky (talk) 14:56, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot :) I didn't want to do it myself since I initiated the move and didn't want to be accused of being biased. Xia talk to me  15:31, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xia actually, you could have just gone ahead. as long as the timestamps of the RM closure and the subsequent moves and the reason in the edit history of the child pages check out, that accusation is baseless. – robertsky (talk) 02:14, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks, good to know. I only occassionally edit on enwiki, so I'm not 100% familiar with all the rules here (of which there are many...) Xia talk to me  10:21, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

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No consensus closes favoring moving
Regarding the closure of the Caylee Anthony article move (I do not challenge the outcome itself, but rather the wording of the closure statement), it would increase clarity to close RMs where the RM nomination proposes to move to the stable title in the first place as moved and not as "no consensus". — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 07:32, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mellohi! I have expanded on the closing statement to reflect that the move back to the stable title is because of 'no consensus' closure. Is that sufficient, or what other part of the statement you suggest that should I expand on? – robertsky (talk) 13:39, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:NUS College


Hello, Robertsky. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "NUS College".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the, , or  code.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Hey man im josh (talk) 15:06, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Heinrich Reuss
Could you consider closing the discussion of the move you proposed on 7 December? As I read the instructions for closing, you are free to do so because you made the proposal, but others who have taken a position are not. This assumes, of course, that we have a consensus. I think it's clear that the consensus on your proposal is negative. Once this is closed, someone can offer a new move proposal based on the discussion to date. Otherwise we have to wait for a disinterested editor to seize the initiative. Rutsq (talk) 00:20, 19 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Rutsq I wish I can but I can't, I made comments subsequently in the discussion, stating my updated position. – robertsky (talk) 00:32, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I added a source now HokeyWokey (talk) 08:44, 20 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @HokeyWokey 👍 – robertsky (talk) 08:48, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

My edits
Why were they reverted? ErceÇamurOfficial (talk) 19:37, 20 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @ErceÇamurOfficial on Christopher Comstock, a request was filed at WP:RM/TR to revert your move with the rationale that it is contrary to the outcome of the previous RM discussion. Feel free to open a Requested move discussion. – robertsky (talk) 23:32, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Move review: Port Elizabeth
I am going to open a move review on procedural grounds. The page was move protected, and the move happened with a week's discussion, and many of the original opposers, including me, were not informed. Indeed, I relied on the move protection and was not following the talk page closely. Whether the usage shifted, should have been discussed more widely. Park3r (talk) 21:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

It looks like you’re standing by your move so the discussion here is moot. Nonetheless I apologise for not giving you more time to respond. My objection  is that the move appears to have been perfunctory and rushed, especially since it also involved a removed move block and previous objectors were not informed. The fact that the participation was so one-sided should have raised alarm bells when previous proposals were much more controversial. It has a decidedly “dead of night” feel about it, even if that was not your intention. Park3r (talk) 03:28, 23 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Park3r Discussion here wouldn't have been moot if you had not rushed your decision to post to MR. This isn't my first time deal with such follow ups and I have been opened to re-opening discussion if there's evidence contrary to the consensus and that it is done in a timely manner. I would also suggest other steps to take if I think going through MR isn't going to be beneficial to you. I actually had typed another reply here to ask you for evidence to back your stand, but upon finding that you have actually filed a MR through your user contributions rather than linking here directly, I am offended cuz time had been wasted and thus decided to stand by my decision instead. Calling this a notice is already being polite to you since it wasn't really clear that you would be filing a MR immediately after posting here. – robertsky (talk) 03:46, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Like I said, I apologise for not giving you more time, but since the move happened in October, I was quite shocked that the block was removed and the page moved. Your time being wasted is regrettable, however that doesn't change the merits of the argument, and shouldn't shape your decision (I also disagree with the removal of the move protection which is something you didn't do). Regarding the merits of the move I have doubts about the name meeting WP:CRITERIA especially Recognizability and Naturalness, since it isn't pronounceable in English with its combination of clicks and gutturals (and doesn't match any recognisable English spelling patterns), also, previous South African place name changes have bounced around for a while, and take years before they settle. But I maintain an open mind, and would have been willing to consider a potential shift in usage if I had been included in the conversation. I think, as a first principle, that the closure was flawed, and potentially the decision to lift the move block in the first place. Park3r (talk) 04:01, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
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 * @MBlaze Lightning Thank you. Merry xmas to you too! – robertsky (talk) 08:58, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

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wikimania 2023 tech subcomittee invitation
Hello Robert, My apologies please I am now seeing your invitation to onboard me as a member for the subcommittee. I got sick and got better just yesterday. I do accept your invitation to be onboarded unto this subcommittee. Below is my telegram handle for you to add me to the subcommitte telegram group.

@Joris_Darlington or kindly add me via +233 26 144 0646.

Hope to be added to the sub committee as soon as possible.

Sincerely, Joris Darlington Quarshie. JDQ  Joris Darlington Quarshie (talk) 19:49, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Joris Darlington Quarshie oh dear... hope you have recovered from your illness! – robertsky (talk) 02:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Cunard Line
Hi Robertsky

Just interested in which part of the "oppose" arguments at Talk:Cunard Line convinced you that there was a consensus against moving? I presented solid policy evidence as to why the shorter name was the preferred title, citing both WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE with evidence, and there is nothing in the "Oppose" comments that rebuts that evidence, which means as a closer you should not have given consideration to those arguments. To be honest it all looks like WP:JDLI arguments to me. I had intended to return to reply to some of the comments, but haven't had a chance yet, and I didn't realise it was going to be closed so soon given the firm evidence in favour. Cheers &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 13:55, 4 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Amakuru the second and forth comments got to me, especially so when I clicked through your ngram links, then the keyword links at the bottom the page. Let me reopen the discussion, and have you rebutting the arguments? Will be back after a short workout. Cheers! – robertsky (talk) 14:18, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That would be great, thank you. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 14:20, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Amakuru done, and stepping away from the keyboard for now (and for real). – robertsky (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Request draft article review
Hi @Robertsky! Can you help me to review the Draft:Judika article that I wrote? I see that you are a part of WikiProject Articles for creation. Thank you. Fadly kurniadi (talk) 05:38, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * First of all, I thank you very much for the help. But I'm still wondering why the review you gave goes to the redirect page entitled "Judika" and not to the "Draft:Judika" page. Are there any technical limitations because the Judika page already exists as a redirect page? Fadly kurniadi (talk) 07:26, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Fadly kurniadi yeah, the limitation is called time and priority. almost all of your references are in Indonesian/Malay, which I don't have a full command of therefore expotentially increases the time required to review. That being said, I am not reviewing now, neither I am going review soon as I have other matters to attend to first. But skimming through, do try to add references to the awards as well. Thanks. – robertsky (talk) 08:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Robertsky Thanks for the feedback. I have added the award reference and the page has been reviewed by another reviewer. Fadly kurniadi (talk) 15:03, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Fadly kurniadi that's great to hear. Enjoy your weekend! – robertsky (talk) 15:21, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the bulk moves
Thanks for moving the whole list of VFL grand final articles after the close. I was going to get TolBot to do it, to avoid the manual work, but it looks like you have some pretty efficient way, too. Dicklyon (talk) 11:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

thanks and you are welcome. There is still some manual work involved. However, I have written a javascript snippet (available on one of my sub pages) for myself to access and prepopulate the move page in a easy manner. – robertsky (talk) 13:20, 9 January 2023 (UTC)


 * OK, good to know. Be aware that User:Tol has gotten permission for TolBot tasks to do bulk page moves when there's a clear consensus at an RM discussion that references the list, in case you'd rather not take on the manual task.  I'll be proposing some rather longer lists, as I have in the past. Dicklyon (talk) 07:39, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Dicklyon if is not manageable when I close your long lists, I will certainly request Tol to process the lists. :) – robertsky (talk) 11:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Batang Quiapo (TV series)
You declined the submission of this topic under AfC because of WP:NFF. Please check the recent edits of the subject and I resubmit for review. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 10:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @SeanJ 2007 done. :) cheers! – robertsky (talk) 11:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Anoplognathus brunnipennis move(s)
Thankyou so much. I'm very impressed and deeply grateful for the work you did. Edisstrange (talk) 00:25, 14 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I'll update Anoplognathus flavipennis with the new info cheers Edisstrange (talk) 00:34, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 January 2023
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Question about procedural close of move discussion for biomass
Hi Robertsky, I am just a little bit confused why you did a procedural close of move discussion for biomass? I felt that we had recently a consensus and was now waiting and expecting to see the move being carried out? I.e. to move biomass to biomass (energy)? EMsmile (talk) 08:35, 13 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @EMsmile nothing in the procedural close is stopping you from moving the page as discussed. let me revise the closing statement. i was expecting bold moves to be made actually, especially when there is a concurrence with VQuakr's bold statement. – robertsky (talk) 08:58, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, looking good now! :-) EMsmile (talk) 09:15, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help with this! Could I please also ask you for a further favour? Would you be able to do a wp:history merge of Talk:Biomass (energy)/Proposed disambiguation page for Biomass into Biomass? Cheers, Clayoquot (talk &#124; contribs) 20:08, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Clayoquot: Apologies, I am not an admin, theefore unable to carry out history merges. However, I don't think this request is a candidate for HISTMERGE. Firstly, it is not a cut and paste move. My brief (in length and time) dab version isn't taken from the proposed dab page link. Even if I didn't say it is not cut and paste, one can tell that both versions are vastly different when looking at the page histories. EMsmile's broad concept version that came minutes right after my edits is also different from the proposed dab page. I may be wrong, after all, I have a fair bit of my histmerge requests rejected. You may file your request at WP:RFHM to have an admin look into this instead and decide if a HISTMERGE is necessary. – robertsky (talk) 22:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * would a manual copy and paste to the talk page of biomass do the trick in a simplified manner? EMsmile (talk) 23:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @EMsmile if you want to preserve the discussion in case the Biomass (energy) page gets lost further in your shuffle, I would say yes. @Clayoquot, what do you think? – robertsky (talk) 23:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm good with whatever is simplest. Thanks for your help! Clayoquot (talk &#124; contribs) 16:18, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I've done a copy and paste from that page now - is that OK? It doesn't preserve the full history but I think that doesn't matter, right? Would it be tidier if we now deleted this page?: Talk:Biomass (energy)/Proposed disambiguation page for Biomass (or placed a redirect from there to Talk:Biomass?) EMsmile (talk) 09:33, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @EMsmile I think redirect will do. – robertsky (talk) 09:48, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, done. EMsmile (talk) 11:19, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-03
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Octicons-tools.svg The URLs in "" links on page history now contain  in place of <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> . This is to fix a problem with links pointing to incorrect diffs when history was filtered by a tag. Some user scripts may break as a result of this change.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Some changes to the appearance of talk pages have only been available on  and   namespaces.  These will be extended to other talk namespaces, such as  .  They will continue to be unavailable in non-talk namespaces, including   pages (e.g., at the Village Pump).  You can change your preferences (beta feature).
 * On Wikisources, when an image is zoomed or panned in the Page: namespace, the same zoom and pan settings will be remembered for all Page: namespace pages that are linked to a particular Index: namespace page.
 * The Vector 2022 skin will become the default for the English Wikipedia desktop users. The change will take place on January 18 at 15:00 UTC. Learn more.

Future changes
 * The 2023 edition of the Community Wishlist Survey, which invites contributors to make technical proposals and vote for tools and improvements, starts next week on 23 January 2023 at 18:00 UTC. You can start drafting your proposals in the CWS sandbox.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W03"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 01:08, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Chemosh-nadab
Hello. I see that you have reverted the page-move vandalism at Kamōš-ʿaśa, but not yet the one at Chemosh-nadab. Could you please resolve this? Thanks in advance. Antiquistik (talk) 13:00, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Antiquistik apologies for missing this out. On it. – robertsky (talk) 13:04, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Much thanks! Antiquistik (talk) 13:08, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 54
<span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes

Issue 54, November – December 2022 <div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
 * New collections:
 * British Newspaper Archive
 * Findmypast
 * University of Michigan Press
 * ACLS
 * Duke University Press
 * 1Lib1Ref 2023
 * Spotlight: EDS Refine Results

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --14:15, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-04
<section begin="technews-2023-W04"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Last week, for ~15 minutes, all wikis were unreachable for logged-in users and non-cached pages. This was caused by a timing issue.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * If you have the Beta Feature for DiscussionTools enabled, the appearance of talk pages will add more information about discussion activity.
 * The 2023 edition of the Community Wishlist Survey (CWS), which invites contributors to make technical proposals and vote for tools and improvements, starts on Monday 23 January 2023 at 18:00 UTC.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W04"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 23:44, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Hybrid event production
Hi, Robert.

I'm André Rodrigues, a Wikimedian from the LGBT+ User Group. In 2023, we are planning our annual event, Queering Wikipedia, as a hybrid conference. Looking through Wikimania 2023 page, I saw that you're in charge of Audio Visual Technical needs for hybrid & remote conferences, so I was wondering if you could help me with some tips for the event production. We are especially looking for open source meeting options, but we are also open to private platforms if they work better (considering accessibility and privacy issues).

It would be extremely helpful if you could give me some input on this topic. You can also email me at andrerodriguex@gmail.com if you want to. Thank you! Andrerodriguex (talk) 23:58, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Andrerodriguex @Robertsky lets catch up on Telegram and plan a meeting next week or soon after. --Zblace (talk) 13:38, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-05
<section begin="technews-2023-W05"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Last week, for ~15 minutes, some users were unable to log in or edit pages. This was caused by a problem with session storage.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Wikis that use localized numbering schemes for references need to add new CSS. This will help to show citation numbers the same way in all reading and editing modes. If your wiki would prefer to do it yourselves, please see the details and example CSS to copy from, and also add your wiki to the list. Otherwise, the developers will directly help out starting the week of February 5.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W05"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 00:04, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Premature closer of the East Timor/Timor Leste discussion
With all due respect, I understand that the argument has lacked civility and seems to be an endless back and forth, but I feel as if closing it yet another time is just going to delay the East Timor rename argument for a few years, and return back to where it is now with little change. There has been eight whole discussions on the page rename, and if we want a "a more depth look/analysis on modern usage of either term," then I suppose it should be made now or very soon.

I suggest that the discussion is reopened and an outline and analysis of all the arguments for either side created, and then a definitive vote can be made that can only result in a rename or the name staying East Timor, in both cases with move protection (unless if something major changes to the country that can spur another discussion). Having it be no consensus once again seems to me as it will appease no one- I fully understand why you figured a closure was warranted, but I believe it's just a band-aid to an unresolved issue that seems like it won't ever be resolved at this rate. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 19:25, 30 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @HadesTTW, thanks for reaching out.
 * I am cognizant of the multiple attempts to move the article to Timor Leste. However, for this discussion, it is my view that there's no point reopening it if no one has the in-depth data to back either stance. This is also not a premature close given that the discussion had gone on for 25 days, way more the minimum 7-day period, and an extended 14-day period (if there's minimum participation or unclear consensus) for RM discussions. The discussion is also already one of the more well-attended ones with ~27 editors participating, in comparison of other typical RM discussions where there would be 3 or 4 participants. Extending the discussion further is just muddying the waters further.
 * I had attempted to reconcile both sides of the discussion after a couple of days of lull in each burst of editors inputting their comments, trying to close it at least 3 times in either direction. Each time, no matter how differently I draft my closing statement each time, the conclusion that I arrived is the same. Also, do note that discussions here are arrived by consensus and not by a vote. Having it be no consensus once again seems to me as it will appease no one: conversely having a definitive outcome with a justification based on the arguments that both sides had thrown out will please no one as well since the arguments are similar to each other, revolving around common name, modern name guidelines/policies.
 * The next move discussion may not be far off, as long as someone can spend the time to extract the data from news sources, scholarship papers, etc and weigh the usage of both terms, rather than just relying on Google hits or corpus extraction. – robertsky (talk) 20:19, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I see- I understand that it is an incorrect to call it a "premature closure," though there really should be something done to help advance this discussion which is so intensely argued. Perhaps an editor could start doing a serious scholarly analysis of the reasons for and against a rename- of course, more than the completely arbitrary method of finding out which term is used more in academia or the news.
 * I would volunteer but I feel as I am not qualified enough- I do not personally know anyone from East Timor, and I'm sure much of the analysis has been conducted in Portuguese which I do not speak. Here's hoping that the next discussion will be far more informed and sourced than the previous have been.
 * Thanks for the thorough explanation.
 * HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 20:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 February 2023
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:45, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:The Celebrity Agency
Hello, Robertsky. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:The Celebrity Agency, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 10:01, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-06
<section begin="technews-2023-W06"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * In the Vector 2022 skin, logged-out users using the full-width toggle will be able to see the setting of their choice even after refreshing pages or opening new ones. This only applies to wikis where Vector 2022 is the default.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Previously, we announced when some wikis would be in read-only for a few minutes because of a switch of their main database. These switches will not be announced any more, as the read-only time has become non-significant. Switches will continue to happen at 7AM UTC on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
 * Across all the wikis, in the Vector 2022 skin, logged-in users will see the page-related links such as "What links here" in a new side menu. It will be displayed on the other side of the screen. This change had previously been made on Czech, English, and Vietnamese Wikipedias.
 * Community Wishlist Survey 2023 will stop receiving new proposals on Monday, 6 February 2023, at 18:00 UTC. Proposers should complete any edits by then, to give time for translations and review. Voting will begin on Friday, 10 February.

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Gadgets and user scripts will be changing to load on desktop and mobile sites. Previously they would only load on the desktop site. It is recommended that wiki administrators audit the gadget definitions prior to this change, and add <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> for any gadgets which should not load on mobile. More details are available.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W06"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 10:19, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-07
<section begin="technews-2023-W07"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * On wikis where patrolled edits are enabled, changes made to the mentor list by autopatrolled mentors are not correctly marked as patrolled. It will be fixed later this week.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * The Reply tool and other parts of DiscussionTools will be deployed for all editors using the mobile site. You can read more about this decision.

Future changes
 * All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on March 1. This is planned for 14:00 UTC. More information will be published in Tech News and will also be posted on individual wikis in the coming weeks.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W07"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 01:47, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 February 2023
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:03, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-08
<section begin="technews-2023-W08"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Last week, during planned maintenance of Cloud Services, unforeseen complications forced the team to turn off all tools for 2–3 hours to prevent data corruption. Work is ongoing to prevent similar problems in the future.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * The voting phase for the Community Wishlist Survey 2023 ends on 24 February at 18:00 UTC. The results of the survey will be announced on 28 February.

Future changes
 * All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on March 1. This is planned for 14:00 UTC. More information will be published in Tech News and will also be posted on individual wikis in the coming weeks.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W08"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 01:56, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-09
<section begin="technews-2023-W09"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Last week, in some areas of the world, there were problems with loading pages for 20 minutes and saving edits for 55 minutes. These issues were caused by a problem with our caching servers due to unforseen events during a routine maintenance task.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on March 1. This is planned for 14:00 UTC.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W09"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 23:45, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Rail Corridor (Singapore)


Hello, Robertsky. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Rail Corridor".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the, , or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Hey man im josh (talk) 14:34, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Notifying you of RM
Talk:2021–2023_Myanmar_protests ---   Tbf69   P &bull;&#32;T 18:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-10
<section begin="technews-2023-W10"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The Community Wishlist Survey 2023 edition has been concluded. Community Tech has published the results of the survey and will provide an update on what is next in April 2023.
 * On wikis which use LanguageConverter to handle multiple writing systems, articles which used custom conversion rules in the wikitext (primarily on Chinese Wikipedia) would have these rules applied inconsistently in the table of contents, especially in the Vector 2022 skin. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * A search system has been added to the Preferences screen. This will let you find different options more easily. Making it work on mobile devices will happen soon.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W10"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 23:48, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 9 March 2023
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:42, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Notice
I noticed that you have accused everyone as sock on page of Guling, Jiangxi. Please stop such behaviour. 203.17.215.26 (talk) 03:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Not without justifications: Sockpuppet investigations/Gweilo60. – robertsky (talk) 03:57, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * yes its without justification. 203.17.215.26 (talk) 04:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * regardless, formalised rfc isn't the next step in dispute resolution for requested moves discussion. the next steps are:
 * discussion with the closer
 * WP:Move review
 * – robertsky (talk) 04:11, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok.I want to discussion with you about the title name, mount lu. Because you are closer.
 * Wp: NCCHINA said use pinyin to name places in China, don't you see the discussions?
 * Is mount Lu Pinyin? 120.21.44.91 (talk) 02:14, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 150.101.89.115 (talk) 05:31, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Logo of Nanyang Academy of Fine Arts.png
Thanks for uploading File:Logo of Nanyang Academy of Fine Arts.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:22, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-11
<section begin="technews-2023-W11"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Starting on Wednesday, a new set of Wikipedias will get "Add a link" . This is part of the progressive deployment of this tool to more Wikipedias. The communities can configure how this feature works locally.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W11"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 23:18, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 55
<span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes

Issue 55, January – February 2023 <div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
 * New bundle partners:
 * Newspapers.com
 * Fold3
 * 1Lib1Ref January report
 * Spotlight: EDS SmartText Searching

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --12:46, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 March 2023
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-12
<section begin="technews-2023-W12"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Last week, some users experienced issues loading image thumbnails. This was due to incorrectly cached images.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Octicons-gift.svg A link to the user's page will appear on  — some user scripts which previously added this link may cause conflicts. This feature request was voted #17 in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey.
 * Octicons-gift.svg The edit window will be resizable and larger by default. This feature request was voted #80 in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey.
 * There will be a new option for Administrators when they are unblocking a user, to add the unblocked user’s user page to their watchlist. This will work both via and via the API.

Meetings
 * You can join the next meeting with the Wikipedia mobile apps teams. During the meeting, we will discuss the current features and future roadmap. The meeting will be on 24 March at 17:00 (UTC). See details and how to join.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W12"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 01:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Draft:List of communities in Phitsanulok
Wiki article: Phitsanulok (reads) Administration The administration of Phitsanulok City Municipality is responsible for an area that covers approximately 18.26 sq.kn (7.05 sq.mi) and consists of only tambon Nai Mueang, 64 municipal communities [11] (chumchon), and 38,626 households [12}.

If you click on this [11] reference, you get a list of 64 municipal communities, but no map added, with a random numbering. So my intention is to simply improve this list with four maps and with the desired numbering, starting at the top (north) and counting clockwise. I hope this gives a better understanding of why there are only four maps. Thus not with the added information about all 64 municipal communities. SietsL (talk) 13:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @SietsL, hi! thanks for following up with me. that one reference is not sufficient to establish the notability of the standalone list. That reference seems to be from the authorities rather than an independent source. You can read more at WP:NLIST, WP:STANDALONE. And also, reiterating, Wikipedia is not a directory. – robertsky (talk) 13:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Move revert discussion opened where?
In the summary of your edit, you said that a discussion was taking place elsewhere of the move revert discussion I had taken a part of, but you failed to inform others of the discussion's location (which I now have to look for). Further, User:162 etc. seems to be preempting page moves before the discussions have closed; he has been warned once recently for a different article. It's very difficult to keep track of what's happening if editors aren't notified about where discussions have been moved to. Thank you. &#8212;&#160;CJDOS,&#160;Sheridan,&#160;OR&#160;(talk) 18:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @CJDOS, village RM: Talk:Punanai. – robertsky (talk) 19:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Draft:W._Carl_Burger
Hi Robert, thanks for taking the time to review this submission. I am working on references for the bulk of the material in the article to ensure it meets the standards Wikipedia expects. With reference to the style/layout/etc, I tried to mimic that of other artists on the platform, but it seems to have come across as more of a resume. Would limiting the Awards and Exhibitions to noteworthy events positively impact the quality of the article? Any additional insight you could give would be greatly appreciated! Rememberart (talk) 14:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Rememberart, External links section should be sparingly used. Facts about him being neutralised citizen should be back by sources as such fact is prone to dispute and/or vandalism. If you have an agreement to release photos and images of his works under the creative commons, email them in to commons. If not, pictures of his works can be uploaded here on en wiki under fair use (i.e. with ). – robertsky (talk) 16:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the great feedback! I have added a good amount more citations though I am still looking for a few on known facts that can be substantiated. Additionally, I reduced the external links section to one link, and cut out the less important/commercialized exhibits and the member section to make it feel less like a resume about the author. I am waiting for the removal of the Wiki commons photos so I can re-upload under fair use. I am sure you are quite busy with life and moderation work, but if you have a chance would you be willing to take another look before re-submission and provide any more feedback?  I am expecting at least 4 - 6 more citations in the main Artistic Career section, and have put in placeholders for two, but any direction/feedback would be greatly appreciated! Rememberart (talk) 01:24, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Conservation_History_Association_of_Texas
Thank you for taking the time to review this page. Please provide an example of how this page reads like a brochure. It is my goal to improve it. Smstarck (talk) 23:15, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Smstarck, the only section that can possibly establish the WP:GNG of the association is the lead section. An expansion on the history of the association, backed by third party reliable sources goes a long way. Also, rather than just listing the projects, linking to the projects, and giving a brief description: drop the external links (WP:EL), expand on the projects' history and description. Current project section is just blatant advertising. – robertsky (talk) 23:25, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is very helpful. Thank you. Smstarck (talk) 23:47, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Flag of the Bahamas to Flag of The Bahamas?
Hello! Can you revert you move and start a requested move discussion if you want? The last Talk:Flag of The Bahamas resulted in majority for no move. Skovl (talk) 07:48, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Skovl, will revert, but did you read the edit summary? the RM discussion should come from @HapHaxion, as they are the one who made the initial request. – robertsky (talk) 08:32, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Somehow I missed that it was requested by HapHaxion, sorry... The argument that "The" is officially capitalized in the name by the constitution was already discussed during the last Requested move 20 July 2020 Skovl (talk) 08:40, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem. :) I must confessed that I had missed out on the discussion somehow when I carried out the move. Thanks for catching and following up. :) – robertsky (talk) 08:43, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-13
<section begin="technews-2023-W13"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The AbuseFilter condition limit was increased from 1000 to 2000.
 * Some Global AbuseFilter actions will no longer apply to local projects.
 * Desktop users are now able to subscribe to talk pages by clicking on the link in the  menu. If you subscribe to a talk page, you receive notifications when new topics are started on that talk page. This is separate from putting the page on your watchlist or subscribing to a single discussion.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

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 * You will be able to choose visual diffs on all history pages at the Wiktionaries and Wikipedias.
 * Octicons-tools.svg The legacy Mobile Content Service is going away in July 2023. Developers are encouraged to switch to Parsoid or another API before then to ensure service continuity.

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MediaWiki message delivery 01:12, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Sibelle Abou Nassif
Hi Robert, thanks for taking the time to review this submission, i just want to know why my draft is still pending till now Kassemissa9 (talk) 22:44, 29 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Didn't review, was just clearing up. Have just reviewed. – robertsky (talk) 03:21, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 April 2023
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Tech News: 2023-14
<section begin="technews-2023-W14"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The system for automatically creating categories for the Babel extension has had several important changes and fixes. One of them allows you to insert templates for automatic category descriptions on creation, allowing you to categorize the new categories.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Some older Web browsers will stop being able to use JavaScript on Wikimedia wikis from this week. This mainly affects users of Internet Explorer 11. If you have an old web browser on your computer you can try to upgrade to a newer version.
 * Octicons-tools.svg The deprecated <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> module has been removed. This module could be used by gadgets and user scripts, to create an artificial delay in how JavaScript responds to a hover event. Gadgets and user scripts should now use jQuery <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> or <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> instead. Examples can be found in the migration guide.
 * Some of the links in will be re-arranged. There will be a clearer separation between links that relate to all users, and links related to your own user account.
 * You will be able to hide the Reply button in archived discussion pages with a new <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> magic word. There will also be a new <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> CSS class for hiding the Reply button in individual sections on a page.

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 * The Vega software that creates data visualizations in pages, such as graphs, will be upgraded to the newest version in the future. Graphs that still use the very old version 1.5 syntax may stop working properly. Most existing uses have been found and updated, but you can help to check, and to update any local documentation. Examples of how to find and fix these graphs are available.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W14"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 23:38, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Media Player 2022
The part about Groove Music/Media Player (2022) in the Windows Media Player article hopes that you can help update Groove Music is not exclusive to Windows 10. Windows 11 was also built in and was replaced by Media Player (2022) after 2022. And 2023 At that time, Media Player (2022) has also replaced Groove Music in Windows 10. I hope you can help rewrite part of the description in the Windows Media Player article that mentions Groove Music/Media Player (2022).

Groove Music was also included in Windows 11. Should the beginning of the article be adjusted? 112.104.154.95 (talk) 10:08, 7 April 2023 (UTC)


 * There is no edit restriction on the article. Feel free to update the article as you wish as long as there are sources to back any potentially contentious statements up. – robertsky (talk) 14:30, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The reason I ask for help is because my English is not very good and I don't know how to modify part of the introduction.
 * So update these intro this part hope you can help. 112.104.154.95 (talk) 17:59, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not very proficient in English, and this adjustment includes sentences that may need to be rewritten, so I need to ask someone who is proficient in English to assist. 2401:E180:8843:26BF:D89A:43C1:E327:64CD (talk) 12:56, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-15
<section begin="technews-2023-W15"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Octicons-gift.svg In the visual editor, it is now possible to edit captions of images in galleries without opening the gallery dialog. This feature request was voted #61 in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey.
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Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Starting on Wednesday, a new set of Wikipedias will get "Add a link" . This is part of the progressive deployment of this tool to more Wikipedias. The communities can configure how this feature works locally.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W15"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 20:03, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Your move of Bassa Vah alphabet to Bassa Vah script
... made a number of linked pages which were redirects into double redirects; this was exacerbated when Bassa Vah alphabet was deleted by User:Deb, making it a redlink for all the linking pages.

Your edit comment said, "attempting to revert POV move by an editor attemting to change NCWS while discussion is ongoing". (I presume "attemting" was in the requestor's original text; perhaps that should have been a hint.) The prior move commented: "this is language-specific (only Bassa uses it), thus meets the current WP:NCWS definition of alphabet; article even describes it as such."

Please see WP:NCWS for yourself: the first sentence (preceding a list of examples), verbatim: Alphabet' is used for language-specific adaptations of a segmental script, usually with a defined sorting order and sometimes with not all of the letters, or with additional letters:"

Please also see (now) Bassa Vah script, described in the lede as "for writing the Bassa language of Liberia." (And in the next paragraph as "a true alphabet".) Is that or is it not both "language-specific" and an alphabet?

I leave it to you. – •Raven .talk 18:24, 9 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @.Raven I suggest that you reread the edit summary. You will find that it clearly stated that the move was carried on behest of @Kwamikagami to revert your undiscussed move, as a pagemover.
 * Whatever argument you have with Kwamikagami, which I take what you wrote above is about, the article's talk page is the venue. If you think that the article should be at "Bassa Vah alphabet" and require further inputs from other editors to reach a consensus, please raise a requested move discussion on the article's talk page. – robertsky (talk) 18:58, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I had reverted his undiscussed (non-consensus) move per WP:RMUM, to restore the original title of that article. At this point in BRD, it was up to him to open a discussion, not make the move again (BRR&thinsp;D) – move-war – which is what he used WP:RM to do. WP:RMUM: "Move wars are disruptive, so if you make a bold move and it is reverted, do not make the move again. Instead, follow the procedures laid out in § Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves." [emphasis added] IOW, the page should be in its original position ("alphabet") until kwami persuades others it should be moved to "script", not the other way around. – •Raven .talk 22:42, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @.Raven: looking at the move history of the article, it was last stable in various 'script' titles without dispute until your initial undiscussed move on 8 April 2023. There is a period of about 8 years, until 2019 which it was in an 'alphabet' title, but you will have to ask @Kwamikagami for details as there was no edit summary or nothing much there.
 * All moves on this article were undiscussed (and unopposed until recently), therefore I looked at the last stable title which the article was at relative to the time between your undiscussed move and his techinical request in my evaluation as to which title to revert to. The article was at 'Bassa Vah script' since 2021. ~2 years vs 1 day? The last stable title also matches with the technical request that Kwamikagami made. Therefore, I determined that your move was bold, and Kwamikagami was within his rights to revert in the BRD chain. (Going back just a step further, it existed as 'Bassa script' since 2019, also without dispute.)
 * Bassa Vah → Bassa Vah script → Bassa script → Bassa alphabet → Bassa script → Bassa Vah script → Bassa Vah alphabet → Bassa Vah script → Bassa Vah script
 * {| class="wikitable sortable plainlinks"

! Date ! From ! To ! Performer ! Comment
 * [ 2010-06-08T08:58:54Z]
 * [ Bassa Vah]
 * Bassa Vah script
 * Kwamikagami (talk &#124; contribs)
 * [ 2010-06-08T08:59:45Z]
 * Bassa Vah script
 * [ Bassa script]
 * Kwamikagami (talk &#124; contribs)
 * WP:English
 * [ 2011-07-31T00:27:31Z]
 * [ Bassa script]
 * [ Bassa alphabet]
 * Kwamikagami (talk &#124; contribs)
 * [ 2019-03-15T09:42:38Z]
 * [ Bassa alphabet]
 * [ Bassa script]
 * Anthony Appleyard (talk &#124; contribs)
 * Requested by Kwamikagami at WP:RM/TR: a distinct script
 * [ 2021-03-01T23:23:59Z]
 * [ Bassa script]
 * Bassa Vah script
 * Buidhe (talk &#124; contribs)
 * Requested by DePiep at WP:RM/TR: Swap over redirect. Name has been established. Since 2010, both ISO 15924 (script naming authority) and Unicode have formalised the name &#34;Bassa Vah&#34; (in English).&#91;https&#58;//www.unicode.org/iso15924/codechanges.html&#93;
 * [ 2023-04-08T06:06:35Z]
 * Bassa Vah script
 * [ Bassa Vah alphabet]
 * .Raven (talk &#124; contribs)
 * this is language-specific (only Bassa uses it), thus meets the current WP:NCWS definition of alphabet; article even describes it as such.
 * [ 2023-04-09T11:22:10Z]
 * [ Bassa Vah alphabet]
 * Bassa Vah script
 * Kwamikagami (talk &#124; contribs)
 * rv. ignorant move
 * [ 2023-04-09T12:06:25Z]
 * Bassa Vah script
 * Bassa Vah script
 * Robertsky (talk &#124; contribs)
 * Requested by Kwamikagami at WP:RM/TR : attempting to revert POV move by an editor attemting to change NCWS while discussion is ongoing
 * }
 * (Table generated using User:Nardog/MoveHistory.) – robertsky (talk) 01:13, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Notice that the only person ever adding/changing "script" to Bassa Vah has been kwami. He also changed it to "alphabet" (for, as you say, about 8 years) on 2011-07-31, which is 16 days before he himself added the present criterion "language-specific" to the definition at WP:NCWS, amid long discussion to reach consensus at WT:NCWS through WT:NCWS (several sections). That distinction still exists, was not changed back, was not discussed. You're telling me the 8-year-old title, fitting the naming convention at WP:NCWS and the consensus that created it, was not stable? But the 2-year-old title, going against both that naming convention and that consensus, was?
 * It's fully true that I created an RfC proposing the addition of "or use-specific" to "language-specific", although "for specific languages or use" had been in the "burgeoning consensus" Vanisaac discussed at the top of WP:NCWS... and kwami had dropped the "or use" part when he posted his edit. But this applies to alphabets like ISO basic Latin alphabet, International Phonetic Alphabet, and Theban alphabet, all of which kwani has declared "scripts". My proposal does not apply to such natural-language alphabets as Bassa Vah, nor did I cite it for any move... which would have justified the "POV warrior" accusation.
 * It's also fully true that, later in the same RfC, I proposed rephrasing that "language-specific" criterion for clarity as "specific to one or more languages" to address the issue raised in that discussion by Christoph Päper in WT:NCWS on 16 August 2011 (a full hour before kwami made it "language-specific") and DePiep on 17 August 2011. Päper had stated "If an alphabet is specific to more than one language then it’s still language-specific."; DePiep's expectation was that term "language-specific" (by then in place) would be taken to include the plural, yet over subsequent years kwami has been taking "language-specific" to mean 'only one language' and exclude alphabets specific to a group of languages. (Besides the single Bassa language's Bassa Vah alphabet, he's also retitled other one-language alphabets to "scripts" in such cases as the Somali language's Kaddare alphabet and Osmanya alphabet, the Zaghawa language's Zaghawa alphabet, the Albanian language's Vithkuqi alphabet, and the Mandaic language's Mandaic alphabet – though that last page's editors restored the "alphabet" title... 2 years, 7 months, and 2 days later ! Was that wrong then?)
 * But my reversion to the previous title, Bassa Vah alphabet, was in accordance with the existing criterion, which has been in the naming convention since 16 August 2011, and that discussion, which already took place back then; surely those had "stability". So it didn't require rephrasing the convention, and didn't seem to need a whole new discussion. – •Raven .talk 05:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @.Raven That distinction was blurred when DePiep filed the technical request in March 2021 to move from Bassa script to Bassa Vah script. The request was to change the first half of the article name, and silent on script/alphabet. – robertsky (talk) 15:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * As you say, silent on the script/alphabet point. What needed to be (and was) corrected was adding the actual name of the alphabet (Vah) where only the language name (Bassa) had been. The Bassas themselves call it merely "Vah", as could be seen at one of the cited URLs kwami deleted. –  . Raven .talk 17:46, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * > "If you think that the article should be at 'Bassa Vah alphabet' and require further inputs from other editors to reach a consensus, please raise a requested move discussion on the article's talk page." – FYI, I have done that, on 7 of the (talk) pages in question, citing the existing convention WP:NCWS. Also FYI, Kwami has accused me of "bad faith" for doing so [2nd comment in that edit], so apparently there's no "good faith" way to dispute his moves. –  . Raven .talk 06:15, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @.Raven, I can only suggest that you ignore the hostility and just let RfC to run its course first, if anything, to solidify the previous discussions (my opinion: which the lack of closure/closing statements of the relevant sections admittedly hard to see the consensus to laypersons, which most of us editors are). – robertsky (talk) 15:55, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The deletion was requested to make way for a page move, which is why I didn't concern myself with any remaining redirects as I assumed (makes an ass of u and me) the requester was waiting for the deletion so as to replace it with something. I should have checked the history - though I'm not sure I would have been able to figure it out. Deb (talk) 08:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Deb, I think all's good with the recreation of the redirect (no less by the initial CSD requestor, I believe?). – robertsky (talk) 15:58, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Notice that the only person ever adding/changing "script" to Bassa Vah has been kwami. He also changed it to "alphabet" (for, as you say, about 8 years) on 2011-07-31, which is 16 days before he himself added the present criterion "language-specific" to the definition at WP:NCWS, amid long discussion to reach consensus at WT:NCWS through WT:NCWS (several sections). That distinction still exists, was not changed back, was not discussed. You're telling me the 8-year-old title, fitting the naming convention at WP:NCWS and the consensus that created it, was not stable? But the 2-year-old title, going against both that naming convention and that consensus, was?
 * It's fully true that I created an RfC proposing the addition of "or use-specific" to "language-specific", although "for specific languages or use" had been in the "burgeoning consensus" Vanisaac discussed at the top of WP:NCWS... and kwami had dropped the "or use" part when he posted his edit. But this applies to alphabets like ISO basic Latin alphabet, International Phonetic Alphabet, and Theban alphabet, all of which kwani has declared "scripts". My proposal does not apply to such natural-language alphabets as Bassa Vah, nor did I cite it for any move... which would have justified the "POV warrior" accusation.
 * It's also fully true that, later in the same RfC, I proposed rephrasing that "language-specific" criterion for clarity as "specific to one or more languages" to address the issue raised in that discussion by Christoph Päper in WT:NCWS on 16 August 2011 (a full hour before kwami made it "language-specific") and DePiep on 17 August 2011. Päper had stated "If an alphabet is specific to more than one language then it’s still language-specific."; DePiep's expectation was that term "language-specific" (by then in place) would be taken to include the plural, yet over subsequent years kwami has been taking "language-specific" to mean 'only one language' and exclude alphabets specific to a group of languages. (Besides the single Bassa language's Bassa Vah alphabet, he's also retitled other one-language alphabets to "scripts" in such cases as the Somali language's Kaddare alphabet and Osmanya alphabet, the Zaghawa language's Zaghawa alphabet, the Albanian language's Vithkuqi alphabet, and the Mandaic language's Mandaic alphabet – though that last page's editors restored the "alphabet" title... 2 years, 7 months, and 2 days later ! Was that wrong then?)
 * But my reversion to the previous title, Bassa Vah alphabet, was in accordance with the existing criterion, which has been in the naming convention since 16 August 2011, and that discussion, which already took place back then; surely those had "stability". So it didn't require rephrasing the convention, and didn't seem to need a whole new discussion. – •Raven .talk 05:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @.Raven That distinction was blurred when DePiep filed the technical request in March 2021 to move from Bassa script to Bassa Vah script. The request was to change the first half of the article name, and silent on script/alphabet. – robertsky (talk) 15:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * As you say, silent on the script/alphabet point. What needed to be (and was) corrected was adding the actual name of the alphabet (Vah) where only the language name (Bassa) had been. The Bassas themselves call it merely "Vah", as could be seen at one of the cited URLs kwami deleted. –  . Raven .talk 17:46, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * > "If you think that the article should be at 'Bassa Vah alphabet' and require further inputs from other editors to reach a consensus, please raise a requested move discussion on the article's talk page." – FYI, I have done that, on 7 of the (talk) pages in question, citing the existing convention WP:NCWS. Also FYI, Kwami has accused me of "bad faith" for doing so [2nd comment in that edit], so apparently there's no "good faith" way to dispute his moves. –  . Raven .talk 06:15, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @.Raven, I can only suggest that you ignore the hostility and just let RfC to run its course first, if anything, to solidify the previous discussions (my opinion: which the lack of closure/closing statements of the relevant sections admittedly hard to see the consensus to laypersons, which most of us editors are). – robertsky (talk) 15:55, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The deletion was requested to make way for a page move, which is why I didn't concern myself with any remaining redirects as I assumed (makes an ass of u and me) the requester was waiting for the deletion so as to replace it with something. I should have checked the history - though I'm not sure I would have been able to figure it out. Deb (talk) 08:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Deb, I think all's good with the recreation of the redirect (no less by the initial CSD requestor, I believe?). – robertsky (talk) 15:58, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-16
<section begin="technews-2023-W16"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * You can now see nearby articles on a Kartographer map with the button for the new feature "". Six wikis have been testing this feature since October.
 * Octicons-gift.svg The Special:GlobalWatchlist page now has links for "" for each entry. This feature request was voted #161 in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey.

Problems
 * At Wikimedia Commons, some thumbnails have not been getting replaced correctly after a new version of the image is uploaded. This should be fixed later this week.
 * Octicons-tools.svg For the last few weeks, some external tools had inconsistent problems with logging-in with OAuth. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

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MediaWiki message delivery 01:53, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

New Page Patrol – May 2023 Backlog Drive
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:12, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Fatimah ---> Fatima
Hi ! I understand your concern here, but I think it's misplaced. As someone closely involved there, I believe the move Fatimah ---> Fatima was controversial not because of dropping the 'h'. In fact, all 'Fatima's on the disambiguation page are spelled without 'h'. That move was controversial because Fatimah ---> Fatima would have made Fatima bint Muhammad the primary topic (WP:PRIMARYTOPIC) which some didn't agree with. That is not the case in the present proposal (Fatimah bint Musa --> Fatima bint Musa) because there is no other 'Fatima bint Musa's on Wikipedia. Instead, the proposal is a long overdue change to match the prevalent spelling on Wikipedia ('Fatima' rather than 'Fatimah'). I hope I was able to convince you that this move is indeed uncontroversial. Albertatiran (talk) 07:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-17
<section begin="technews-2023-W17"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Octicons-gift.svg The date-selection menu on pages such as will now show year-ranges that are in the current and past decade, instead of the current and future decade. This feature request was voted #145 in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey.

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 * Due to security issues with the Graph extension, graphs have been disabled in all Wikimedia projects. Wikimedia Foundation teams are working to respond to these vulnerabilities.
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 * The Editing team plans an A/B test for a usability analysis of the Talk page project. The planned measurements are available. Your wiki may be invited to participate. Please suggest improvements to the measurement plan at the discussion page.
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MediaWiki message delivery 22:02, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2023
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Face 2 Face (Juice Wrld song)
I moved the article to Face 2 Face (song). Per WP:SONGDAB, there are no other songs named "Face 2 Face". User:In ictu oculi reverted it. Should probably go to RM; it's unnecessary disambiguation. 162 etc. (talk) 16:04, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on I Gedé Gita Purnama Arsa Putra
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page I Gedé Gita Purnama Arsa Putra, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Qwerfjkl_(bot)&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 15:32, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * A "missing periodical" error. References show this error when the name of the magazine or journal is not given. Please edit the article to add the name of the magazine/journal to the reference, or use a different citation template. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=I_Ged%C3%A9_Gita_Purnama_Arsa_Putra&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1152326164%7CI%20Gedé%20Gita%20Purnama%20Arsa%20Putra%5D%5D Ask for help])

Tech News: 2023-18
<section begin="technews-2023-W18"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Octicons-gift.svg The content attribution tools Who Wrote That?, XTools Authorship, and XTools Blame now support the French and Italian Wikipedias. More languages will be added in the near future. This is part of the #7 wish in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey.
 * The Video2commons tool has been updated. This fixed several bugs related to YouTube uploads.
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MediaWiki message delivery 01:43, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 8 May 2023
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:25, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Question from Nique2400 (03:42, 8 May 2023)
Hello, I am looking to create a new article and I'm not quite sure how to. Are you able to help? --Nique2400 (talk) 03:42, 8 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Nique2400,
 * Welcome to Wikipedia! For a comprehensive guide on creating a new article, you can go through Help:Your first article. As a new editor, you can try creating a working version first in your sandbox (click through here: User:Nique2400/sandbox and click on the Edit button). In the above-linked help article, there are tips on what and how to write an article. After you are done with your working version, you can add to the top of your working version to submit it to a pool of experienced editors to review your submission.
 * My personal recommendation is to edit and expand articles that are similar to the subject that you want to write and get use to the styles and requirements of writing on Wikipedia. – robertsky (talk) 09:27, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Event coordinator granted
After reviewing your request for the " eventcoordinator " permission, I have&#32;temporarily enabled the flag on your account&#32;until 2023-09-30. Keep in mind these things: If you no longer require the right, let me know, or ask any other administrator. Drop a note on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of the event coordinator right. Happy editing! Courcelles (talk) 15:10, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The event coordinator right removes the limit on the maximum number of new accounts that can be created in a 24-hour period.
 * The event coordinator right allows you to temporarily add the " confirmed " permission to newly created accounts. You should not grant this for more than 10 days.
 * The event coordinator right is not a status symbol. If it remains unused, it is likely to be removed. Abuse of the event coordinator right will result in its removal by an administrator.
 * Please note, if you were previously a member of the "account creator" group, your flag may have been converted to this new group.