User talk:Rockero/Archive02

December 2005

Logan Heights, San Diego, California
Good work. Yes, there is one more step. "Redirects" are tiny articles that redirect from one title to another. However the system can only handle a single redirect, not a redirect to a redirect to an article. If you go to Logan Heights, San Diego, California and click on "what links here" you'll see some redirects, and also a couple of double redirects. You should edit the double redirects so that they point directly to Logan Heights, San Diego, California. I could do it myself faster than explaining it, but then you wouldn't get to join in the fun. See also Double redirects. Thanks again for your contributions. -Willmcw 07:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

RE.Vandalism
Hi unfortuantly I am not a admin so I can not block those IPs. As to my reverting it to the wrong past revision I apologize. I use CryptoDerk's Vandal Fighter and I just saw an edit made to your user page that wasn't made by you so I checked it out and saw that it didn't match some of your previous user page content. So I reverted it to the last edit you made. It would seem that someone made a sneaky edit on your page and you edited it without noticing it. If you go back and look through your history you can look and see who was making edits to your page. Once you properly identify the vandal, you can hit him/her with a warning for vandalism and personal attacks against yourself. Sorry for the inconvenience Knowledge Of Self  |  talk. 05:36, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Your tasks page
May I work on some of your tasks? Its a great list. Joaquin Murietta 06:21, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Gang injunction
I just read your gang injunction article. Very, very good!. I think that you have the makings for a Featured article.

As for a gang injunction DYK: You can do self-nominations if you want, but in this case I went ahead and did it for you (see Template talk:Did you know).

Regarding your notation on your user page about El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán: There seems to be a lot of anon editing on that page, on MEChA, and on similar topics that appears rather "ignorant" and POV, but I haven't know enough on the subjects to do any corrections. If you do any editing on those articles let me know and I can, at least, help maintain the article's WP:NPOV. Unfortunately, the same sort of anon editing also happens to aricles like Kwanzaa. Blank Verse 12:03, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Congradulations. You've made today's DYK. The page has already had one very minor bit of vandalism, so the page needs watching today. Blank Verse 15:48, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Ricardo Cruz
I started Ricardo Cruz, please take a look. c/s Joaquin Murietta 01:33, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * thanks for the comments. I edited it just now. Also, please feel free to put the template whereever you wish, and to add to it.

Not sure about the see also, I think it refers to external links. There's a bot that changes it if you use external links. Joaquin Murietta 01:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * By the way, Ricardo was a nice person. Did you know him? Joaquin Murietta 01:17, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to edit *everything* I put up. c/s Joaquin Murietta 16:39, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Miguel Piñero
Thank you for letting me know about your additions, they are great! I took a look at your user page and you seem to be a very cool guy. I like that fact that you are as concerned about anything that has to do with Mexico as I am about Puerto Rico. There is another Wiki user whom I believe you should get to know, User:Vizcarra. I can tell that you have the makings of a future administrator, when the moment comes, do not hesitate in getting in touch with me. Your Wiki friend Tony the Marine 02:52, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Calo'
Nice! Joaquin Murietta 03:55, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Is it time to make this a Wikiproject?
Discussion moved to WikiProject Mexican-Americans/Chicanos.

What "Archive" ?
On the pic of the Catolicos por la Raza, you say it's "from the archives". What archives? Are they online? Thanx 68.39.174.238 01:36, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The Buffalo Skull of Diligence
Thanks for your work reverting the vandals on Mandan while it was on the mainpage yesterday! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 19:58, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know of a Native American wikiproject or portal, though there certainly should be one. I know of two other Wikipedians with an interest in Native American articles. Perhaps we should band together and create a project? *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 23:13, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits
on Maria Helena Viramontes Joaquin Murietta 05:11, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

jalapeño
Awwwwwlllllriiiighttttt! Joaquin Murietta 06:34, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!
Hey Rockero: Thanks for your welcoming message on my talk page. I will be very honored to work with the La Raza wikiproject.

One of my primary purposes here is to highlight the great things Hispanics have done in history. I grew up at a time where Puerto Rico had a lot of influence (television, magazines, music, sports) from Spain, Argentina, and, specially,Mexico. When I was nine, I went to the Dominican Republic and come to think about it I appreciated that place more than Disney World (my first plane trip, hay que volar, hombre!!! jaja) because it represented the first time I understood that Spanish language and the culture of Latin America wasn't just a Puerto Rican thing. Ever since, I've been hungry to learn more and more about our Raza and our different countries, etc. As a matter of a fact, when I first visited Mexico in 2001, I felt like I was back home again. It was a lifelong dream come true. While not staying in Mexico's most popular tourist spot, I didn't care, man, I was in MEXICO, something I had envisioned since I first saw a Mexicana airlines plane at Luis Munoz Marin International Airport in San Juan. You know what I mean? So that was another moment of my life that was very very happy to me.

The great Simon Bolivar once tried to unite all of us as one country, it was going to be called the "Estados Unidos de Sur America" or Latino America, I believe. It didn't happen because of bureocratic ideas and things beyond my power. But I believe in Bolivar's idea that we are one as a race and that also drives me to write about, say Bobby Chacon, Jose Luis Rodriguez, Cachita, Facundo Arana and so many others who would go unnoticed by the rest of the world. I mean, no race has given more important people than Hispanics if put together.

Now, I don't know about wikiproject:Chicanos for myself, because I am not a Chicano so Im not saying that I fully understand the Mexican thinking and Chicano thinking, so I don't think that wikiproject:Chicanos would be a place for me, although I will read the page and try to enlighten myself more in my quest to learn more every day about our Hispanic race. But I will definitely join wikiproject:La Raza. I want to thank you for welcoming me and I will go ahead and do it as soon as I am done with this. As always, I will write about Mexicans or Mexican-Americans with the deep respect and admiracion I feel to you. Any Hispanic from any country that has read my articles here probably knows that I write articles about people from different Spanish speaking countries, Spain actually included, out of love and respect and recognition to all the great things we have done as Hispanics.

Onw more thing, I was gonna tell you: I read today about El Grito de Dolores, the great Miguel Hidalgo's independence move. In Puerto Rico, we tried that twice, more famously El Grito de Lares in Lares and the Ponce massacre. Each time we tried to get independence, we got ambushed and many people were killed by the Spaniard or US Army. Puerto Ricans had no choice but to accept this BS thing we have now or get killed. I'm among the 60 percent who believe Puerto Rico should not, and I thunk never, become a full state (right now we are defined as half nation-half state by the UN). Man do I wish we had an Hidalgo back then in PR!!!

Anyways, man, I feel honored to be able to help with La Raza project. Anything you need me for, you ask and I'll see what I can do. By the way, felicidades on the Virgen de Guadalupe day!!

Thanks, and God bless you!

Your wiki-friend, Antonio Latinos para siempre! Martin

Edits to the template -- what a mess.
Please see my comments at the WikiProject Mexican-Americans/Chicanos talk page. Some guy edited the template. Then he split the template into two templates Mexican American and Chicano. He says that Chicanos are not representative of Mexican Americans. Then he started changing the articles. For example, see Chicanismo which uses the new template called Chicano. I changed the original template back, but now we have dozens of articles to change back. What shall we do? Joaquin Murietta 15:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The template still looks different. Let's wait to see if he responds.  I don't think his argument is particularly convincing. "Chicanos are not representative of Mexican Americans"?  What does that even mean?  Part of the reason this project is necesary is because of problems like this.  We need to demystify the relationship between Mexican Americans and Chicanos--it's a lot closer than Deepstratagem seems to realize.--Rockero 16:24, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Carlos Almaraz
Hey Rockero: Thanks for your message in my talk page thanking me for the article on Carlos Almaraz. I actually knew nothing about this great man, I just thought that if I was going to seriously hepl with the La Raza project, it was time to start and his name seemed interesting for some reason.

I certainly didn't know he was gay. I did find out that he was married to Elisa Lopez. Reading about him opened a whole new door to me about our race as Hispanics that I didn't know about. Now, Im interested in the Chicano street art movement!!!!

Well, as you might have seen from my last e-mail, Im also deeply interested in Puerto Rico's independency, but my dad has beaten me to that. I have only written about Ruben Berrios and the PIP for that matter. But things will get interesting now. Bush said that he will give us independency before his term is over; alas, Puerto Ricans born as US citizens woill get double citizenship so as you can imagine, Im thrilled just at the fact that our country may finally be independent and also recognized as a full Latin American republic!.

Anyways, my next project with La Raza is, I hope to begin the article about the Mexican women's civil rights organization. I wonder what are they doing to help stop the Deaths in Ciudad Juarez, anyways because our poor sisters Chihuahuenas, mano, it's not fair what's happening to them and their families there!

As I said, it will always be my honor to help fellow Hispanos here. Anything that has to do with our race, Im here to help.

By the way, that picture, you look like the kind of person I'd love to go clubbing with on a weekend night! I got this rock group, they do concerts at bars and Im their "official cheerleader and press manager" hehe so yeah I like the club scene a lot.

Take care and God bless you, hermano!

Sincerely yours, Antonio SexyCool Martin

No problema, bud!
Hey Rockero: Im glad you liked the barnstar I gave you. It was no problem at all. I think you deserve it because you have dedicated yourself to bringing our culture(s) to light. What better place to do that than in the English wikipedia, where even people from India can read about us Latinos??

Well, I will tell you something about the word Guey (buey) and me: In Puerto Rico, you don't want to call anyone a buey, because it means that the person's lover is cheating on that person, in Puerto Rico. But I live in Arizona, and seeing as the word is (apparently) not offensive to Mexicans so I used it to you in a way that I hope is not offensive, but friendly. So yeah, we use the word Buey in Puerto Rico, the only thing is, there, you don't want to call anyone that!

This is a true to the bone story: One day, my great-aunt (who was skinny like a bone) and my grandmother were walking down the street and this guy says "Ahi van las vacas!!" (calling them fat) and my great-aunt retorted by saying "Si, pero tu ve a cuidar a tu esposa, Buey!!" LOL!

Of course, Bulls are also called Buey or Bueyes there.

But I think that among Mexicans and Chicanos its a good word so I called you that in a friendly way. I hope you're not offended. I've actually learned a few Mexican Spanish words here, like Orale, Ese, Vato, Sandia, and a few words. In some cases, I don't know what they mean, but, like Orale, I still say it because that word I know is cool.

Aguevo, well I actually never heard that word. But we do refer to men's balls as huevos, so yeah lol.

And Cońo, oh heck yeah we say Cońo! It takes a very angry Puerto Rican to say "Cońo, tu si que estas bien cabron, so pendejo!!" JAJAJAJA!!!!

Well, amigo, I hope you liked your barnstar a lot, it goes to show you I respect your work and delight in the fact there are more Latinos here like me working for the Latino cause. And, remember, I called you guey in a cool way, not the Puerto Rican way1!! :)

God bless!

Sincerely yours, your wiki-amigo, Antonio Los Hispanics Martin
 * Actually it started out as an insult in Mexico, too, as calling someone an animal is an insult in pretty much any language. I'm not sure if had the sense of cuckold there, or if the term was meant to emasculate, as buey generally refers to castrated bulls, but it is still considered rude in traditional circles and to say to women.  But the poor "common" people use it basically to mean "dude", so it doesn't offend me.  I heard a similar story about the evolution of the words "guy" and "dude" in American English.  One of the subjects that fascinates me.--Rockero 18:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Harry Gamboa
Hey Rockero, yeah I wrote for permission to use the photo. He is an awesome guy, I let him know about the project, as I really want to get the ASCO article right. I re-wrote the magu article so it contains no copyvio, after today it should come up (It's currently on the temp page). Thanks for the props!--Pozole 22:54, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

FRSC
FRSC barely reaches all of Santa Cruz, let alone any part of the Bay Area proper. Also, no other Santa Cruz station is listed on the Bay Area radio stations template save for KSCO-AM; as AM propigation is typically much farther than FM I could easily believe that their signal reaches the bay area. I'm all for the creation of a "Radio stations in Monterey Bay" template, which FRSC would definetely belong in; I just don't have much free time right now.

A separate issue is that no pirate stations are currently listed on the template; if you know the status of Free Radio Berkeley or any other Bay Area stations, please add them --''Unsigned but dated 11:21, 17 December 2005 (UTC). Placed by Mcpusc.''

Yolanda Perez
Thanks for your feedback on my talk page about my Yolanda article. I have most of her CDs (maybe missing a few early ones) and just love the way she combines traditional and contmporary musical styles. For the record, I am a non-Spanish speaking Anglo Australian who got into tejano and related music through discovering the music of Selena Quintanilla-Perez after her death. I don't understand a word, but I love the sound! I plan to do articles on a bunch of others along the way, and have already also done Victoria Galvan. Thanks so much for your encouragement! -- Ishel99 23:19, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to get into what's not my business, but I found it interesting that an Australian is interested in our Latino culture, or, at least, part of it. I just wanted to say that I heard there is a well known community composed both by Mexicans and Puerto Ricans in Sydney. Cheech Marin dedicated a movie to this community in the early 1990s. Now, to my business...Antonio Latino Boomerang Martin
 * Heh, I think anything is pretty much anyone's business on Wikipedia!? As for Latin communities in Australia, there sure are plenty of Latin American folks and also some from Old Spain.  In my small circle I know people from Spain, El Salvador, Colombia (quite a few!), Nicaragua, Peru and Mexico.  As for an Anglo Australian liking Latin music - what's not to like?  It's alive and vibrant, and the vocals brim with passion just as a musical instrument without understanding a word.  Nuff said!  -- Ishel99 15:26, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Chacon vs Limon rivalry as part of wikiproject:La Raza?
...which is, rockero, I'm Wikipedia's self appointed boxing historian. I'm planning to write about the Rivalry between Bobby Chacon, a Chicano, and Rafael Limon, who was born and lives in Mexico. I was wondering if we could list this in the wikiproject's things to do list before I work on it.

The article will be considerably long, there was four fights between these two!!!!!

Thanks, and God bless you!

Antonio KO Murphy Martin
 * I think the differences between Mexicans and Mexican-Americans/Chicanos should definitely be explored, and sports rivalries could be a part of that. Wasn't there a rivalry between Oscar de la Hoya and Julio Cesar Chavez, also?  That's be fantastic if we could expand the sports section so people don't think all Mexican-Americans/Chicanos were/are artists and activists.  Put it on the project page, or I'll see if I can't find the right place to fit it in.  And speaking about boxing, I have written a bio of a boxer but included very little about his boxing career--frankly I just don't know where to look.  So maybe if you know some good references, you could look into it, or just point me in the right direction?  Thx Antonio.--Rockero 16:07, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

PS
PS: I hope you enjoyed the article I began about Los Four, Rockero. The more I learn about Chicano street art, the more complete I feel, the more honored I feel to write about this topic in particular. Antonio Jumping Frong Martin

V. de G.
Hi Rockero! I found you because I've been working on a new Our Lady of Guadalupe article and found your entries about the Nican Mopohua and Luis Laso de la Vega. I'm pretty un-stoked with the current English article -- I think all an unfamiliar reader would take from it is a vague idea about miraculous eyeballs.

The article I've been working on is half-finished, on my talk page -- maybe you'd like to collaborate on it? Or comment? Also, you say you want to synchronize the English and Spanish versions. I like the Spanish version better, but...are you thinking of rewriting them both? Let me know what you think...Katsam 08:15, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

When you get a chance I'd be happy to hear any impressions you have about how the Guadalupe article is coming along. I agree with you that it ought to be in context of the Conquest and, at the moment, I think it's floating ahistorically in space. I don't know who Miguel Cabrera is and hadn't heard of the Stradanus engraving either (I started the world's tiniest stub on it). When you said that the popular devotion section should be based on reliable sources, what kind of stuff were you thinking of? For some reason that paragraph about alcoholism and how much people love the "virgencita" makes my skin crawl, but all I can think of to put there is stuff like "en México hasta los ateos son Guadalupanos" or "Mexico was born at Tepeyac". happy the sun is coming back,Katsam 14:53, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello again! Thanks for your detailed commentary. Let me try to address it piece by piece:

Citations: I agree. I think I fixed the Paz citation, but I still have Brading quoting Sanchez, Krauze quoting Morelos, and Brading quoting Bolivar. I'm not sure if my school library will have Sanchez's Imagen, or the letter which sourced the Bolivar quote. I'd be willing to look for those documents after winter break, but right now the weak citations are the best I can muster. (Right now I'm at my family's house and have no books -- the citations I stuck in the article last night came out from a paper which is saved on my laptop.)

I also agree about the disambiguation note and will get to that tonight. Also, you're right that the idea of apparition as opposed to icon ought to be discussed in the first paragraph. TOTALLY RIGHT

As far as a structure for the article what do you think about:

1)intro

2)Origins of the Cult   a)History of Tepeyac[ac] + relationship to Tonantzin b)proofs of the cult (basilica fundraising, bustamante + montufar, "millions of converts" stradanus, sanchez, de la vega)

3)Mexican nationalism   a)Guadalupe v. Remedios b)independence   c)revolution d)cristero wars   e)chicano movement

4)Popular devotion (Elizondo?)

5)Tilma   a)physical description b)interpretations of the image   c)debates about media

The Tonantzin stuff, you're right, could collapse into the "Origins of the Cult" section. From what I remember, there isn't really a whole lot evidence of a Tonantzin cult at Tepeyac, besides that letter by Bernard Sagahun -- But I would like the article to discuss somewhere La Virgen as the protector of indigenous rights, La Morenita, etc; maybe that can happen in the "popular devotion" section. The Elizondo book I referenced is very romantic in its exposition about Guadalupe as the spiritual connector between indigenous people and Catholicism:

"The most scandalous form of perversion for the Nahuatl world was the abandonment of the traditions and religion of the ancestors...But Juan Diego will astonish and surprise everyone. The Indian Mother of God changed everything and made new ways possible for everyone.  He will be a Christian but not a traitor.  Now the spiritual mestizaje begins as all begin to share in a common mestizo soul....Juan Diego is the new mestizo who is no longer ashamed of the ways of his people and his ancestors, nor fearful of and subservient to the ways of the dominant.  Rather, rooted in his abused cultural ancestors and in solidarity with them, he goes...to offer a new alternative to those in power." -- Virgil Elizondo

Besides some discussion of Elizondo's ideas I'm not sure what to do with the popular devotion section. I think it is a very important part of the article but I'm not certain how to handle it in an encyclopedic manner. I would like to remove the stuff about problem drinkers and the people crawling on their knees from other cities (unless we could find a picture of them or an article about them or something similar), but want very much to find a way to impart the fanaticism and romance and sublime elements of the cult of Guadalupe...

Then, I'm disgruntled about the "tilma" section and would like to do away with most of it. I don't know if that's unwikipediac of me, but aside from the eyeballs part, which I find funny, there's something unappealing about "scientific investigation of miracles".

If we're going to discuss the image at the end of the article, it would make sense to have a copy of the image down there, but then the top of the article would feel lonely! Maybe we could put the Posada print of Juan Diego at the article head??

It would be terrific if you wanted to actively co-edit. I'm stoked to find someone who knows so much about the subject! Caveat: I won't have library access -- access to books, anyway -- until the first days of the New Year, so my ability contribute during 2005 is limited. But I look forward to working together (and I'm going to point Ignacio over here as well). cuidate! tu amiga, Katsam

Gracias
Thanks for the awards, Rockero. You are a cool guy. Watch this project expand in scope and quality!! I made a gibberish article this morning, hopefully WP does not ban me, it made BJAODN. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_queda_number_3

Pozole 20:31, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

--

Sure thing!
Hey Rockero! Im gonna start working on my article on Bobby Chacon and Rafael Limon tonight. Not only does this have to do with Chicanos-Mexicans from Mexico as an issue, but I hadn't written an article about a fight in a looong time (read The Battle of the Little Giants for example).

If you go to [www.boxrec.com] this is the one website I go to when writing a boxer's biography. Its an excellent website, you just put your fighter's name on the search engine and click. It lacks on the boxer's personal sides, through. Most of my early articles about boxers, say Wilfredo Gomez or Salvador Sanchez for example, I knew something about their personal lifes. Something that made them human. Boxrec is the best website to find a boxer's bio as far as acreer and dates, it doesnt give you details that make theeir human side stand, however.

Conversely, I need you to send me to a good feminist organization. I began the article Deaths in Ciudad Juarez here. Seeing on Argentine television that a seven year old boy was confused for a girl and he and his seven year old girl classmate-friend were raped, makes me want to throw up and join a femninine organization to see what can be done. This Argentina thing happened in a place named Don Torcuato, BTW. The rapist: still on the loose.

We had a serial rapist in El Condado recently in Puerto Rico. The guy had about twenty victims. That is, until his tire blew up as he was taking vitim 21. A cop stopped to help, the victim screamed, and the mothafu*ka sent to the iron bars.

Well amigo, I'll talk to you hopefully tonight or tomorrow!

Sincerely yours, your wiki-friend, Antonio the victim's angel Martin


 * Hey! I just finished the Chacon vs. Limon article. I hope you check it for peer review, specially since I don't know much about the history between Chicanos and Mexicans from Mexico. Per requested, I put what I know about it there, from the top of my head (not too many websites I found willing to talk about the rivalry between my beloved Mexican brothers either). Feel free to correct anything I might have written wrong there. As far as the fights, well, boxing is my favorite thing in life apart from God and women..lol!!

God bless!

Sincerely yours, Antonio Guerrero Bravo Martin

Mariachi Rosas Divinas
I would appreciate you taking an interest in this article, and anyone else who stops by here may also wish to do so. I have just created the article and it was immediately listed for 'speedy deletion'. I have made a defence of my article on the talk page for the article, and responded to the user who listed my article on his talk page; he has left a comment also on my talk page, though did not make any defence of his listing on the article talk page itself. You will note on the article talk page my reference to the Deletion of vanity articles, which does not seem to suggest that my article fits those criteria.

I am aware that Hispanic affairs are only just starting to creep into Wikipedia, and I think many people are unaware that many Hispanic Americans have English as their first language and that the English Wikipedia is therefore the natural and appropriate place for articles on their culture. As an Australian gringo myself I believe I am well placed to be dispassionate and take a fairly neutral view. I am not trying to promote things in which I have a personal stake, but simply an active interest. I would appreciate the views, and if possible the support, of interested parties in resolution of this listing of my article for 'speedy deletion'. I don't want to start a bunfight, but I do believe the listing, while sincere, is in error. Many thanks! -- Ishel99 04:51, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your assistance with this article, Rockero! Much appreciated.  Muchos gracias, amigo! -- Ishel99 22:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Feliz Navidad


'''Rockero, O.K., so you don't believe in Santa, but I still want to wish you and your loved ones all the happiness in the world and the best new year ever. Your friend, Tony the Marine 05:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)'''

Re:Colville Indians
Dear Rockero,

Thank you for your message. I think your idea for three seperate articles is a good one. However, I respectfully disagree with the idea of leaving red link on the Wanrow article. I think that since the article regarding the reservation also contains information regarding the tribe unto itself and not just the reservation, it is probably best to link it. You can always return and create a seperate article regarding the Colville tribe without the existance of the red link. -User:Asarelah
 * Dear Rockero,


 * Whoops! I misunderstood you before. I'm not interested in working on an article regarding the Colville tribe at this time, I'm already preoccupied with several other topics on Wiki. But thank you for asking. - User:Asarelah

Thanks!
Hey Rockero: Thanks for the Barnstar!! I was deeply honored and moved to receive it. To me, it goes to show that I am achieving my goals here as far as highlighting all the talent we Latinos=Hispanics have, and of uniting Hispanic writers at wikipedia.

Once again, thanks and God bless you!

Sincerely yours, your friend, Antonio Madonna Simmons Martin