User talk:Rockero/Archive06

May 2006

Immigration Protests
Thanks for noticing. Contrary to what some believe, I am just humbly trying to keep the articles NPOV. I delete POV from both Right and Left and from both activists on both sides of the debate. I am not an activist nor involved in the debate at all. As for your counter-argument regarding "illegal" and "unauthorized" on the "Great American Boycott" talk page, I read it through once and am still trying to digest all of it (I usally try to take Sundays off and avoid editing). I'll respond tomorrow (although by the self-description and picture on your User Page, I'm assuming you'll be out protesting tomorrow).--WilliamThweatt 02:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Caution: IF you protest, be careful. The police are in no mood for riots and things of that sort. Martial Law 03:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC) :)
 * IF the Prison Planet website is correct, this may be the beginning of Martial Law and people going to Camps like the one in Cuba. See their site about the alleged Prison Camps. Martial Law 06:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC) :)

Some call protests REBELLION, evidence below

 * Jeff Rense has a article from Glenn Spencer calling the current demonstrations a Insurrection. Thought you might want to know this. Martial Law 00:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)
 * Here is some evidence:Mexico Supports Insurrection. From there, you go to www.americanpatrol.com. I have also inputed a article called Prison Planet that you'll find interesting as well. It depicts that these demonstrations may be the excuse to initiate Martial Law in the U.S. Find in the archives such references as well, but some articles are restricted to subscribers of Prison Planet. Martial Law 00:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)
 * A Lou Dobbs had allegedly made those comments of rebellion. Martial Law 00:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)


 * This is What Glenn, others are using AS evidence to support claims of Rebellion: Invading ARMY Stages "Granmarcha",Aided by 5th Column. Now you know where some of the rumors of rebellion, worse is comming from. Martial Law 00:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)


 * Charges abound, such as communisim, reverse racisim in the above cited evidence. Martial Law 00:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)'


 * This is from Prison planet's website:Radicals Control Immigration Movement. Another (possible) source of Rebellion rumors. Martial Law 01:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)
 * This is also quoted by Lou Dobbs as well. Martial Law 01:13, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)

Lou Dobbs
I've read the Lou Dobbs article myself. IF you're a illegal alien, what he calls a 5th column member, then he HATES you. Should CNN fire this guy ? Martial Law 01:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)

Of course if they do, cancel his shows, he'll go to FOX News,another rival, then state that he got tossed by "liberal idiots" for "political reasons". Martial Law 01:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)

Great American Boycott
Good luck fixing that thing. You got a lot of work to do. I don't have time to help tonight. We tried to keep the POV and soapboxing out, but it was crazy, it was all I could do just to keep out the blatant page blanking, hate-group website links and outright Nazi vulgarities (and the obvious replies by the extremes on the other side). I even tried to get an admin to protect or semi-protect the page twice, but they refused because it was a current event. Anyway, good luck.--WilliamThweatt 03:18, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

For the third (fourth?) time today, i agree with WilliamThweatt. Anything you do to make the article better will probably be deleted by BillyTFried, who has decided to block all attempts to change anything he has done in the article or changed by all the people who believe that their personal beliefs should be in this article. Good luck. dposse 03:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

how was it?
I saw in the GAB talk page that you are tired and sore. How was the boycott? dposse 04:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * ah, that's great! I'm glad you had a awesome time at the boycott. dposse 04:15, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Chat
'''Hispanos Unidos, No Seran Vencidos. Que Viva La Raza!'''    Tony the Marine 04:27, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * ?! Martial Law 05:15, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)
 * What is Hispanos Unidos, No Seran Vencidos.  Que Viva La Raza! ? Martial Law 20:18, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)

Up late
I went to revert a bad edit to El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán and found you'd beat me to it. Great American Boycott is looking good - highly sourced and tightly-written. Let's remember, of course, that an encyclopedia is the last source that has to report, not the first. Cheers, -Will Beback 10:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I wanted the article to actually mention that both all nationalities were formally invited, but that it was inspired by the Mexican experience. Your edit was the most economical so far and a far better job than I could have thought of. :) John wesley 17:02, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess then we can no longer use the term immigrant to refer to citizens, and I frequently hear people claim that all Americans, save natives or indigenous inuits are immigrants. It would force us to actually keep repeating the word citizen as in native born citizen and naturalized citizen in place of native and immigrant. C'est la vie. Language will follow usage, but I hope never to make such a mistake in my pleadings, answers and counterclaims in any legal proceeding or law review. John wesley 18:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Tlatelolco Massacre
What do you know about bringing people to justice? John wesley 18:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

It.../ local reactions / Private Armies in the U.S.
The explanation is adequate. Local reactions are that the people are oiling and fixing old weapons, getting ammo, buying powerful "hunting rifles". They have seen the signs on the news outlets, such as "Whites get out !!" and some about "Killing Gringos". I hope the weapons prepreations are incorrect. FOX News, CNN, other news outlets carried coverage of the demonstrations, and some of the news cameras got some good shots of the mentioned offending matter, which is causing concerns of weapons prepreations in some areas of the US. There are private armies all over the US that have been around since the Clinton Administration, and it is a good bet that they are preparing for WAR. Your state has one or more of these private armies. In fact, all of the states in the U.S. has these private armies in them, some are well known, some not so well known. Wikipedia also has a pix or two of these signs. I'm in a extremely conservative area. Martial Law 21:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)

Some of these armies claim that there will be war in the U.S., a Civil War II. Only stating pure logic concerning some offensive material seen on the news outlets during the recent, possibly still ongoing demonstrations. While I was in New Mexico myself, I bacame aware of The Minutemen, as in militia, not the current organization, and while I was in Arizona, I became aware of a militia group called "The Knights Of The Confederacy", a organization formed in the nearby Arizona State Prisons. They have Nazi related protocol. I am no longer in that area. Martial Law 21:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)

You don't tell the media that you're preparing for war. As stated, I'm in a extremely conservative area. I too hate rumors. that is one reason I investigate these and other rumors, to terminate them. Martial Law 21:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)

Muy bien hecho.
Hey vato. Just wanted to say "strong work", on keeping on top of all the stuff that was going on in the GAB article. Murcielago

Reported Riot
Should I place this on the immigration protest articles ? A riot was reported during the protest denonstrations. Link is Riot Reported During The May 1, 2006 Demonstrations Martial Law 23:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC) :)
 * This is why I asked you to be careful. Martial Law 00:54, 3 May 2006 (UTC) :)
 * I'm pretty sure the incident has already been included. And I know how to handle my own at riots, too. 8)--Rockero 01:14, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Abrazo fraternal
Hi Rockero! I just wanted to give you a big brotherly hug. You made me proud by paticipating on the May 1 march, the Great American March.

Due to things off my hands, (appointments, car broken, my neighbor is not legal so she chose not to go because Arpaio allegedly threatened to arrest illegals, only small groups gathered here) and just plain bad luck I wasn;'t able to march but I protested too, wearing White that day and resisting my ever attacking urges to shop and shop, which are like the munchies to me. Today Im already looking forward to what Im gonna buy tonight..lol!!

Anyways, banderas arriba!! We gotta peacefully fight the racists, show them we are here to stay. Spain's and Chile's consulate urged their citizens to protest, and I saw Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Chilean, Venezuelan and Salvadorean flags on the march when I looked at the news. Aquel vato from Walkout! said "what a beautiful day to be a Chicano!" I kept thinking about those words on May 1, what a beautiful day to be Hispano.

Im getting a book, Growing up Chicano...have you read it? How good is it? I want to get the entire Hispanic experience in me, not just the Puerto Rican-Caribbean Hispanic experience and to be honest if it was Growing up Bolivian or Spainard Id buy it too, but I cant wait til I read this book Growing up Chicano.

By the way, Feliz 5 de Mayo!

Thanks and Dios te bendiga!

Your hermano in raza, Antonio Barbie and the Rockers Martin

ref changed
Someone changed the CNN ref at the bottom, but I don't know how to fix it.

---> 20:30, 4 May 2006 138.163.0.42

BillyTFried 21:19, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

the ACLU.
hey rockero. I think it is a good idea to have the infomation that the ACLU gave legal and civil rights advice and pamphlets to the people who were protesting in the Boycott article. Where do you think that infomation should go? My personal opinion is it should go in the same place where we put the AFL-CIO and ANSWER infomation. dposse 21:35, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * thanks!! dposse 18:27, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

RE: GAB
Thanks for the suggestion, and I appreciate your politeness. I was, however, only expressing my hesitation on the issue, not looking to Wikipedia for determining a stance. For some reason, after seeing alot of heated debate in the discussion, I felt like someone needed to put the idea out that there exists a position in-between both sides. I doubt my local library would have news on the issue, as I am in Hicksville. I do appreciate the well-written and informative article, however, and my suggestion was purely that: a suggestion. You don't have to include information on why white was worn in the article. Thanks again, Jakswa 02:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

So...
How do you feel about the article on El Gran Paro Americano? BillyTFried 19:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Congrats
Fantastic, so now you are an administrator! I would have come earlier, but could not on account of my sickness from 3rd April to 24th April 2006 resulting into my wiki-absence. I convey my congratulations to you on your elevation as an administrator, and wish you all the best! Have you ever seen me around? I am just curious! --Bhadani 15:17, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Chat
I just wanted to share this with a friend. I had nothing better to do so I did the following; Check it out:Famous people who have met the Marine. Tony the Marine 02:53, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow!--Rockero 05:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Carlos de Sigüenza y Góngora
Hi Rockero, thanks for the kind words on the article. I came across Sigüenza in the course of writing a series of articles on viceroys of New Spain. He definitely seemed like someone who deserved an article in an encyclopedia with a million articles, so I read up a little on him. It sounds like you have some more information to add. I'd love to see it.

I agree that English Wikipedia needs much more information on Mexico and Mexicans. Probably on Chicanos, too, but that's not something I can contribute to. I have some good Spanish-language books, and I think I can add quite a few short Mexican articles. Anyway, I'm going to try.

Rbraunwa 20:20, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rockero, I thought you might be interested in this new article I just uploaded: Lorenzo Boturini Bernaducci (because of its Virgen de Guadalupe connection). Rbraunwa 18:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Indigenous Wikiproject Talk Page Tables - Mexico
You seem to be the natural guy to ask about this. I was just by the Tlatelolco massacre page and was going to put it in the NorthAmNative tables, but didn't know where; should it be in the history/anthropology table, or in the Mexico table? Or should there be Mexico tables for personalities, organizations/groups, languages (as separate from groups) and events/battles/issues? e.g. Tlatelolco massacre, Zapatista, Benito Juarez all strike me as having Indigenous content; maybe not Tlatlelolco so much cultural as political...or in Mexico can there even be a difference? Because wasn't the 1968 event located there because of its indigenous-history importance? I'm also wondering about pre-Columbian personalities; surely Cuauhtemoc and Moctezuma and Nezahualcoyotl should all be in the leaders' table, no? Your thoughts?Skookum1 07:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

What did I do?
Please explain what I did wrong. I don't understand.--69.239.25.46 05:48, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

that thing you sent me.
the myspace link you gave me was messed up. it sent me to my blog. dposse 00:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Colegio Cesar Chavez
Thanks for the compliments on the CCC page. I have never heard of the college you mention, but it sounds interesting. Unfortunately, it seems that the poet in question is all but lost to history. The only thing I can hope is that someone who sees the page knows what his name is and then tells us. -- Andrew Parodi 08:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right, the Designa picture really brightens the page up. And I would love to find out who the poet was. If you can find out, that would be great. I have no idea. -- Andrew Parodi 04:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Gran Marcha
Hey Rockero. I hate to stir things up with the angel again, but thought you may want to merge Gran Marcha with your work on GAB. Gran Marcha's not a bad article, but it's basically a stub that would work well in GAB. Murcielago 04:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Article titles
Hi Rockero. Thanks for the note. The article titles on the viceroys are not mine. My preference would be to make the article title the man's name, without any of his titles, and that's the way I originally uploaded them. However, Gryffindor contacted me, and we had some discussions about consistency with other projects. (I don't think there's much, but he is working on it with some other people.) He is also working on translating the Spanish titles into English, but slowly and cautiously. I'm a lot more interested in the content than the exact title, so I'm not taking much of a part in this. But perhaps you should contact him and let him know your thoughts. --Rbraunwa 20:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:CCChPoster Desiga.png
Thanks for uploading Image:CCChPoster Desiga.png. Wikipedia gets hundreds of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Media copyright questions. 00:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, you're quick, OrphanBot! Thanks for your vigilance.--Rockero 02:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

LGM
Greetings Rockero. In response to your question about merging La Gran March with the 2006 Immigration Protests. I believe it is best to keep it seperate. While LGM is certainly a subarticle of that group of protests, the sheer size of it earns it a special distiction. What in your opinion needs to be added to the LGM? I'm pretty new to wiki and learning the basics.--digitalronin
 * I know that la Gran Marcha was huge, but the article on it isn't. Contrast that with the Great American Boycott, which has lots of info from lots of sources. If we can find some more material, then I'll help you with expansion and formatting, etc. If not, I'd really rather merge. I'll see what I can dig up, too.--Rockero 00:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

DYK!!!
Thanks for your efforts!  + + Lar: t/c 02:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

It IS Alurista!!!!
Thank you so much for suggesting who the poet is. I did some searches, and I am 99.9% certain that the poet is Alurista. Compare:

The picture of the Colegio poetry reading:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Colegiopoetryreading3.jpg

A recent picture of Alurista:

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/08.05.99/gifs/aztlan2-9931.jpg

I have higher resolution scans of those pictures, which I will share with you tomorrow. In the mean time, THANK YOU so much for suggesting thing! I had always wanted to know that poet's name, but didn't think I'd ever find out who it is. -- Andrew Parodi 06:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I just did another search, and I came up with this picture:


 * http://www.humanities-interactive.org/vocesamericanas/ex097_08h1.html


 * Again, compare it to the Colegio picture:


 * http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Colegiopoetryreading3.jpg


 * It's undeniably him. Thank you so much. You'll never know how much this means to me. And, yes, please write an article about him: Alurista. -- Andrew Parodi 06:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

User HenryMark
User HenryMark is a persistent and obsessive vandal. If you know any administrators, ask for him to be temporaliry banned rather than bother constantly reverting his edits on the Latino article--Burgas00 19:00, 24 May 2006 (UTC).
 * I put a 1-hour block for violation of the 3rr on him.--Rockero 19:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

A request
Hi Rockero,

I just uploaded the article Francisco Javier Clavijero, but I had a little trouble with some translation. It is based almost entirely on the Spanish Wikipedia article of the same name. I wonder if you would have time to look at the two articles and verify a little of the translation?

I have never included anything in which I wasn't sure of the translation, until now. But this article has a couple of quotations. The older Spanish is a little different from what I'm used to, and anyway, I can't resort to my usual technique of careful English wording to omit anything I'm not sure of, because these are quotations. Would you be able to review the indented quotations? There are only three, and they are short.

Sorry to ask this. If you don't want to do it, no problem. I'll go back and remove what I'm not sure of, because I have no intention of passing it off as fact. If you do look them over and see some changes that need to be made, go ahead and make them. You don't need to contact me about it.

Thanks. Rbraunwa 17:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Great job, Rockero. Thanks for doing it.  That letter had me mystified.
 * --Rbraunwa 22:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Another LA-area Wikipedia meetup?
There is a proposal for a 3rd LA-area meetup at Philippe's on Saturday, 24 June 2006. If you are interested in another meetup, please visit the proposal and comment on the date and location. Blank Verse 08:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Antonio de Otermin
Rockero, maybe your roots are from Spain but are not from Euzkadi. To your knowledge, the Basque surnames are not accented. The Basque people do not use such accent and doing a light watch on a few basque surnames you will realize what I mean. Thus, you can see it at my homepage: http://club.telepolis.com/otermin/index.htm Currently I'm editing an article, related to my ancestor Don Antonio, which you can find at: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otermin

In case you are willing to continue writing about Don Antonio, we can share each other the sources so we could write an accurate history. Do you agree? In case you wish to do so, my personal e-mail account is otermin@gmail.com.

Kind regards --Otermin 22:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not sure where you get your ideas about my heritage and knowledge, but I am perfectly willing to collaborate. 8)--Rockero 04:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Email
I don't want to give out my e-mail because I don't want people giving me viruses. If I were to setup a secondary e-mail, people could still give me viruses. --- Dark Tichondrias

Just do it on my discussion page. -- Dark Tichondrias

I take that permission back. The websites are not directly related to Wikipedia and should not be discussed on my discussion page. If you want to argue whether or not they belong on their respective pages, then argue on the corresponding discussion page of the articles. ---Dark Tichondrias

The website about MEChA is only on one article. --- Dark Tichondrias

Template Image and colors
Thank you for helping out with the  Latino template. What do you think should be the image at the top of the template? And, what colors do you think should be used?--JuanMuslim 1m 20:45, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Alurista article
Hi Rockero:

The article looks great. I'm really impressed. It seems to have happened overnight. About pictures, I added one picture from the Colegio reading to the Alurista page, placing it under the "poetry and activism" section. That photograph is from my own personal collection, and I have released the rights to it, so it is a "free" image. The downside is that, admittedly, the quality of the picture is not as good as several of the other copyrighted pictures available online. But I understand Wikipedia prefers free images whenever possible, and the Colegio picture depicts Alurista giving a reading at the first four-year Chicano college in the nation, which places him in a historical context and will probably help to squash any of that talk about him not being notable.

Take care,

Andrew -- Andrew Parodi 22:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * ¡Orale vato! You rock.--Rockero 22:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Latino
I think the questions of colors and images are secondary at this point. Right now we should be trying to determine whether or not the template is merited. Are there enough articles to add into it to make it useful? What articles should it be placed on? What benefit will it provide to readers of the encyclopedia? What are its parameters? Will it apply to all of Latin America or just Latinos in the United States? These are the questions we should be discussing right now. And to be frank, it doesn't seem like it will do much good at this point. Once the parameters are determined, then we can get started on writing articles that pertain to Latinos as a whole. The template should be like a finishing touch to enhance to a body of articles, not an outline to determine what needs to be written.--Rockero 20:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Any project, such as this template, can be broken down into a number of smaller projects – the presentation and the content or substance, but yes, how it looks is less important than the content. I would love to see a template for Latino/Hispanic topics that is as eye appealing and as useful as the template for African-American topics, especially with the growing number of Latinos within the United States. The purpose of a Wikipedia template is to make navigation easier, and certainly there needs be an effective way to navigate through the complex web of Latino related articles, and I think that in time the template will achieve that goal.
 * The template should be about Latinos living in the United States. If you ask a Venezuelan off the street of Venezuela if he’s a Latino, he’ll say he’s Venezuelan or Latin American. The terms Hispanic and Latino aren’t used by most Latin Americans. A separate template could also be created for Latin Americans if someone desires to make one. I’d like to focus on seeing a Latino template. The Latino/Hispanic template could state “Latinos / Hispanics in the U.S” below the image that will be selected.
 * For our own purposes, whether the Latinos are descendents or immigrants to the U.S. is less important. There needs to be a template that represents all these people who are Latinos and Hispanics. Therefore, when discussing Latino history, the article would include the history of all Latinos including Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Puerto Rican Americans, etc. The history article might include bits and interesting facts about the various Latin American countries. We, Mexican-Americans, make up over 75% of the Latino population, and thus, the history, etc about us will dominate many Latino related articles, but that doesn’t mean that our Mexican-American history is synonymous with Latino history.
 * I think that the Latino template can give us a bit of a direction. Unfortunately, the template reveals the important articles that Wikipedia needs about Latinos. The Latino / Hispanic template needs to be tweaked that is for sure. There could be a link to the article about Latin America, links to articles about the major subgroups of Latinos, such as Mexican American and Cuban American and the possibilities are endless.--JuanMuslim 1m 23:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Orale pues, that's the reason we made the Mexican-American/Chicano templates Chicano2 and Mexican-American. However, I think your idea of a navigational template for all the Latinos in the U.S. is actually probably a better idea since many of our organizations are inclusive of Latinos from all nationalities. If we make a template that is more inclusive, maybe we could make separate navigational templates for specific topics such as the Chicano Movement and Chicano Art, for example. What you are asking for, however, is a major reorganization. And here in conservative Wikipedia, you are bound to encounter opposition. So let's get it together before we start adding it to articles.
 * Here's my recommendation: we reorganize the Latino template to accomodate articles that already exist. One header will be "Nationalities", and underneath, Cuban American, Mexican American, etc. That's the only idea I have for now, and when I get back I'll help with getting it together. PAZ carnal, --Rockero 03:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure we'll get some opposition, but all we can do is explain ourselves. The best approach right now is as you stated, that is, to use what already exists. And, your help is essentual because you are more familiar with what Latino related articles already exist on Wikipedia. Then, we'd also have a better idea of what needs to be written or perhaps reorganized. For example, the article on Puerto Rico includes info about Puerto Rican Americans which would be good for an article entitled Puerto Rican Americans or Puerto Rican American. And, some links on the template could point to sections within various Latino related articles. --JuanMuslim 1m 12:58, 1 June 2006 (UTC)