User talk:RocketTestPilot/List of featured biographical articles by gender identity

Looks like a great idea! Keep it up, and let me know if you want some help sorting bios. FourViolas (talk) 04:02, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you! I completely underestimated how much time it took just to do what I've done so far, and as you can see, I didn't even get to the actual list. So, I definitely appreciate your offer to help! Maybe we can get a few more people on board and divide up the categories of featured articles? What do you think would be the best way to proceed? Hopefully, others from my course will get on board, too. --RocketTestPilot (talk) 04:12, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay! Here's a list of the contents of WP:Featured which are in dedicated biography subsections; there are a few more mixed in with sections without bio subsections.

· · · Jean Bellette · · · · Homer Davenport · · · · · · · · · · · James B. Longacre · · · · Daisy Jugadai Napaltjarri · · · · · · · · · · Constance Stokes · · · · · · · · · Marcus Ward Lyon, Jr. · · · · · · Abu Nidal · · · Alexander of Greece · Pedro Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil · William T. Anderson · · · · · · · · · · · Carsten Borchgrevink · · · · · · · · Robert Catesby · · Clarence 13X · · William Cragh · · · · · · · · · · Isabeau of Bavaria · Guy Fawkes · · Pain fitzJohn · · · · · Thomas C. Hindman · · · Ernest Joyce · · · · · · · · · Khalid al-Mihdhar · · · Francis Nash · · Hugh de Neville · Nguyễn Chánh Thi · Roger Norreis · · · · · · · · · Ambrose Rookwood · · · · · Wail al-Shehri · · John Sherman · · · Tarrare · · · · · · · · · · · Urse d'Abetot · · · · · · · · · · · · Ronnie Lee Gardner · · · · · · · · · · Melford Stevenson · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Stella Gibbons · · · · · · Amir Hamzah · · · · · · · E. W. Hornung · Israel the Grammarian · · · · · · · · · Little Tich · · James Russell Lowell · · · · Olivia Manning · · · · · George Robey · · · · · · · Ezra Pound · · Jean-Joseph Rabearivelo · · · · Ralph Richardson · · · · · · · · · · · · Hugh Walpole · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Nancy Cartwright · · · · · George Washington Dixon · D. Djajakusuma · · · · George Formby Snr · · John Gielgud · · Maggie Gyllenhaal · · · · · Kenneth Horne · · · · Kareena Kapoor Khan · · · · · · · · · · · Kangana Ranaut · · · Peter Sellers · · Red Skelton · · · · · · · · · · · · · Audioslave · · John Barbirolli · · · · Big Star · · · · · · · Canadian drug charges and trial of Jimi Hendrix · · · · · · Damageplan · Death of Jimi Hendrix · · · · · · · Bernard Fanning · · · · · · Percy Grainger · The Greencards · · · · · Imogen Holst · · · · Eusèbe Jaojoby · Andrew Johnston (singer) · · · · · The Kinks · · · · · Steve Lukather · · · Jules Massenet · Paul McCartney · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · The Orb · · · · · Pixies · Powderfinger · · · · · · · · Sasha (DJ) · · · · · · · · · Faryl Smith · · Jo Stafford · · Ringo Starr · Gwen Stefani · · · · · · Connie Talbot · · · · Michael Tippett · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Enrico Fermi · · Josiah Willard Gibbs · · · · · · · · · · Chester A. Arthur · · Alben W. Barkley · Thomas F. Bayard · · Judah P. Benjamin · · · Margaret Bondfield · Horatio Bottomley · William O'Connell Bradley · Political career of John C. Breckinridge · · · · · · · Happy Chandler · · · · · · Bert T. Combs · · · · John J. Crittenden · · Benjamin Disraeli · · · Don Dunstan · Early life and military career of John McCain · William Hayden English · Ernie Fletcher · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Andrew Johnson · · · · Ruby Laffoon · · · · · Luo Yixiu · · John A. Macdonald · Thomas R. Marshall · · James B. McCreary · · · Military career of Hugo Chávez · · · Ngô Đình Cẩn · · · · Louie B. Nunn · · · Paul E. Patton · · Franklin Pierce · · · · · · · · · · George W. Romney · · · · · · Charles Scott (governor) · William H. Seward · · · Arthur Sifton · Ian Smith · · Augustus Owsley Stanley · · · · · John Tyler · · P. K. van der Byl · · · · · · · · · · Robert Burnell · · Robert de Chesney · · · · · · · Ealdred (archbishop of York) · · · Geoffrey (archbishop of York) · · Gerard (archbishop of York) · · · Hilary of Chichester · · · · · · John de Gray · · Robert of Jumièges · · · · · · · · · · Ralph Neville · Nigel (bishop of Ely) · · · · Elias Abraham Rosenberg · · · · · · · · · · William de Corbeil · · · · · · Æthelbald of Mercia · Æthelberht of Kent · Æthelred of Mercia · · · Æthelstan A · Æthelwold ætheling · · · · · · · · · Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil · · · · · · · · · · · · · · George Calvert, 1st Baron Baltimore · · · · · · · · Coenwulf of Mercia · · · · · Donnchadh, Earl of Carrick · · Eardwulf of Northumbria · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Princess Helena of the United Kingdom · Henry I of England · Henry III of England · · · · · · John, King of England · Nikolai Kulikovsky · · · John Bingham, 7th Earl of Lucan · · · · · · · · · Óengus I · · Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna of Russia · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Siward, Earl of Northumbria · Stephen, King of England · · · · · · · · Wiglaf of Mercia · Wihtred of Kent · · · · · · · · · Jonathan Agnew · Gubby Allen · Tommy Amaker · · · Sid Barnes with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · · · Brian Booth · · · · Donald Bradman with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · Eric Brewer · · Neil Brooks · Bill Brown (cricketer) · William Robinson Brown · Steve Bruce · · Mike Capel · · Percy Chapman · Ian Chappell · CM Punk · Paul Collingwood · · Learie Constantine · Stan Coveleski · Ian Craig · Jack Crawford (cricketer) · · Bobby Eaton · Duncan Edwards · · Ray Emery · Peter Evans (swimmer) · · · · · Robin Friday · · Arthur Gilligan · · · · Chris Gragg · · · · · Ron Hamence with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · Wally Hammond · · Dominik Hašek · Lindsay Hassett with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · George Headley · · · Herbie Hewett · · · · George Hirst · Jack Hobbs · · · · · Len Hutton · · Roy Kilner · Jarome Iginla · · · Ian Johnson (cricketer) · · · · · · Mark Kerry · Harmon Killebrew · · · · Harold Larwood · · Maurice Leyland · · Ray Lindwall with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · Sam Loxton · Sam Loxton with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · Roberto Luongo · · George Macaulay · Archie MacLaren · · · Lanny McDonald · · Ian Meckiff · · Early life of Keith Miller · Keith Miller in the 1946–47 Australian cricket season · Keith Miller with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · Arthur Mold · Howie Morenz · Sandra Morgan · Arthur Morris · Stan Musial · Ian O'Brien · · · · Ben Paschal · Bobby Peel · · · · · · Wilfred Rhodes · J. R. Richard · Doug Ring with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · · · · · · · · · · · · Joel Selwood · Waisale Serevi · · · · · Paul Stastny · · · · Jim Thome · · · · Billy Joe Tolliver · Mark Tonelli · Ernie Toshack · Ernie Toshack with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 · · Marcus Trescothick · Harry Trott · Hugh Trumble · · · · · Abe Waddington · · · · Fanny Bullock Workman · · Scott Zolak · · · · · · · · · John Balmer · · Nicky Barr · · · · Frank Bladin · Thomas Blamey · · William Bostock · Juan Davis Bradburn · William Brill · · Raymond Brownell · Henry Burrell (admiral) · Vannevar Bush · · · · · Thomas Crisp · · · · Richard Dannatt, Baron Dannatt · George Andrew Davis, Jr. · · · · · Brian Eaton · · David Evans (RAAF officer) · · · Bobby Gibbes · Stanley Goble · · Valston Hancock · · Colin Hannah · · · William Hely · · Joe Hewitt (RAAF officer) · · · James Hogun · Brian Horrocks · · Cedric Howell · Thomas J. Hudner, Jr. · Caesar Hull · Joaquim José Inácio, Viscount of Inhaúma · · · · Peter Jeffrey (RAAF officer) · · · · Elwyn Roy King · Bruce Kingsbury · · · Walter Krueger · · · · · · · Iven Mackay · Manuel Marques de Sousa, Count of Porto Alegre · · · James Whiteside McCay · George B. McClellan · Ian Dougald McLachlan · · Alan McNicoll · Walter Model · · James Moore (Continental Army officer) · Fred Moosally · Alister Murdoch · Audie Murphy · · James Newland · Bill Newton · George S. Patton · Kosta Pećanac · Walter Peeler · Jerry Pentland · · Roy Phillipps · · Arthur W. Radford · · John Plagis · · · James Rowland (RAAF officer) · Reg Saunders · Stanley Savige · Frederick Scherger · · · · Military service of Ian Smith · · Oerip Soemohardjo · Myles Standish · · Vernon Sturdee · · Jethro Sumner · · · Paul Tibbets · Benjamin Franklin Tilley · Tôn Thất Đính · Edgar Towner · · Ellis Wackett · John Lloyd Waddy · · Hector Waller · Allan Walters · · · · · · Henry Wrigley

Wow. That's the bad news: around 1200 names. The good news: WP is good at using its subjects' preferred pronouns (see the Chelsea Manning page), so each page will take no more than a glance apiece. Most of them probably won't even need that, although we should be careful; every mistake that escapes notice through the review process is a potentially serious WP:BLP issue. The fastest way I can think of would be to be editing this page and the actual list in parallel tabs, using command-x and command-c to cut names from here to there with quick checks in a third window for any possibly ambiguous names. It's totally manageable, especially with helpers, and you get to play "Do I Know the Notable Person?" What categories were you planning to include? Just Female/Male, or Female/Male/Other, or Female (subcategories Female people born female-bodied, Female people born other than female-bodied)/etc? FourViolas (talk) 11:57, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Holy smokes, we definitely have a lot of bios to get through! To make it as comparable to WP:FA as possible, how about we keep the same categorization-by-subject system used on the WP:FA?. The difference (or independent variable, if you're sort of hoping to make the article provide valid experimental data like I am) would be that we'd just add gender identity as another level of the organizational structure. So instead of subject&rarr;biographies like on WP:FA, it would be gender identity&rarr;subject&rarr;biographies. But I suppose it could also be subject&rarr;gender identity&rarr;biographies. Having gender identity be the first tier would visually emphasize overall imbalance, and making gender identity the second tier would visually emphasize imbalance within each subject. At first I was leaning toward the former, but now that I really think about it, I'm learning toward the latter because I think seeing the imbalance in each section one after the other would still make overall imbalance pretty clear just as the reader goes along, but doing it the other way would not necessarily make clear how the sections compare to each other without the reader going out of their way. What do you think? --RocketTestPilot (talk) 18:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, and also, let me add that I envision the organizational structure as having female, male, and transgender as the divisions of the gender identity tier, with with the identities from the sidebar of [gender identity] child tiers of transgender. This would allow the transgender population to clearly be represented and compared to both cis-gendered group, while respecting that transgender is not a single gender identity (which is especially important since the main objective of our article is to separate by gender identity). Thoughts? --RocketTestPilot (talk) 19:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


 * First paragraph: sounds logical. It would be nice to mention the overall totals for each category in the text up top, because people will want to know them much more often than they'll want to compare within a section.
 * Second paragraph: I'm cis and not very well educated about the trans community (I have two trans friends and one agender), and I want to be as sensitive as possible, and I don't know how to ensure that nobody will be mad about the implication that Person X is primarily trans and secondarily male, as opposed to male (but happened to have been assigned female at birth), or vice versa (that is, emphasizing preferred over birth gender). If you don't mind, I'd like to ask for taxonomy suggestions on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gender Studies, which might also be a good way to get some of their hundred-odd contributors to lend a hand.
 * P.S. Your refs in the sandbox article demonstrate mastery of proper sourcing (according to your user page, you have good reason to know from academic writing!). However, Referencing is idiosyncratic and annoying. To help get rid of those error messages about date fields, WP:REF, WP:CIT, and Template:Cite web might come in handy. FourViolas (talk) 03:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Chiming in on this conversation, first off FourViolas thanks so much for all your help! I agree with FourViolas's advice that you may want to think through, and design, the taxonomy of gender identities carefully. One way would be to follow the suggestion of consulting with Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gender Studies. Great point, FourViolas, that this is probably the best method for involving Wikipedians that are already interested in these questions and doing this work. RocketTestPilot, I would like to talk a bit more with you about how to propose your object to that WikiProject. I'm also interested in pushing you to think about how you'd explain this project, and its potential value, to newcomer Wikipedians. This request for clarification may also be muddled by the citation/ reference formatting issues FourViolas has pointed out. Do please take a look at the links above, and/or we can look over them together in our next meeting. Interesting start! Vaparedes (talk) 05:33, 15 November 2014 (UTC)