User talk:RocknRollArchivist

Welcome!
Hello, RocknRollArchivist, and a belated welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate encyclopedic contributions (especially in areas of common interest like Rock 'n' Roll!), but some of your recent contributions, such as your edit to the page It'll Be Me (Jerry Lee Lewis song), have removed valuable content in the process of adding new content. In this case (earlier this year) the Infobox for the Cliff Richard version of the song was overwritten with the Jerry Lee Lewis version details. In this kind of situation you should have created a new Infobox for Jerry Lee Lewis and put it at the top because it was the original release. The Cliff Richard Infobox should then have remained underneath it, as it is a subsequent release. The Cliff Richard information is valuable information because the release was a big hit in numerous countries outside the United States and is an important piece of the Cliff Richard canon of releases. I have now added back the Cliff Richard infobox under the Jerry Lee Lewis Infobox and added other useful information there about its chart performances around the world.

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I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! AusChartMan (talk) 07:14, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * It'll Be Me (Jerry Lee Lewis song)
 * Hi. I am completely disagree with your edit of It'll Be Me (Jerry Lee Lewis song).
 * Please see the title of this page (and comprehend it).


 * Why an information about a cover performance of this song by an other artist and about this artist himself should constitute 80% of this article?


 * If you want add this information to Wikipedia, you can add it to any appropriate article concerning Cliff Richard. Here is no place for that.


 * Best regards. RocknRollArchivist (talk) 08:48, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi again. Sorry you feel I'm infringing on JLL's space, I like and respect his music too. What I have done though is working towards being in accordance with the guidelines for songs on Wikipedia, see WP:SONGS, WP:COVERSONG and WP:NSONGS. The cover songs guideline says cover songs should "never [be] in a separate article". Also, from the notability guidelines, notability of the Jerry Lee Lewis version in its own right has not been demonstrated in the article, so the article could potentially be identified for deletion. The Cliff Richard version meets the notability guidelines by way of its chart placings, so notability of the song is gained. If there is notability information that you have for the Jerry Lee Lewis version (with good sources), please add it.


 * Regarding the title of the page having Jerry Lee Lewis in it, this is not to preclude cover versions being added but to differentiate the song from other songs by the same name (in this case It'll Be Me (Exile song)). The article is about the song rather than the renditions of the song.


 * Sorry this is not the way you would prefer the article to look, but as I find difficult sometimes too, its not about us as editors doing things our own way, but doing things according to the consensus established in the guidelines. You are entitled to put in your viewpoint if think the guidelines should be changed.


 * Best regards, AusChartMan (talk) 10:38, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi again. I'm agree with you that the notability of Jerry Lee Lewis "version" as you say (though it is not a version at all, but an original performance, whereas all the following performances, including the Cliff Richard's one, are really a versions) has not been demonstrated, but this weakness is due to the primary writer of this article. I was very (and unpleasantly) surprised when I did read this article in its version preceding my edit, because under the mask of Jerry Lee Lewis' song this article did narrate the Cliff Richard's cover of this song. I think, this article in your previous (and also actual) kind did "could potentially be identified for deletion" no less (and maybe more) than after my edit, with 90% (for the first edition) or 80% of content not dedicated to the subject of the article.


 * Please think why the guideline states that a cover song should "never [be] in a separate article". It is a Wiki's estimation of the real amount of cover with respect to original song. But this prohibition does not mean an inducement to fill an abundant information about a cover(s) to the article treating (maybe not so completely) a song.


 * Even if someone (maybe me) will add more information about the Jerry Lee Lewis' song, the detailed information about the Cliff Richard's cover, IMHO, is anyway out of place here. Please search for it another place. At the most this cover can be mentioned here among other covers, maybe with the chart positions (in brackets), but without these mighty tables and a dozens of references without any relation to the Jerry Lee Lewis song. That evidently exploits the work of an original artist for another artist's sake.
 * Best regards, RocknRollArchivist (talk) 11:58, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree that the article in its previous and current form lacks content, including regarding the original recording. I disagree that the article should primarily be about the original recording. I do not see this in the WP:SONGS guide. I think the critical point is that the only reason that "Jerry Lee Lewis" is mentioned in the title is to differentiate the song from the other song with the same name. The Article titles guide instructs in the second paragraph "it is sometimes necessary to add distinguishing information, often in the form of a description in parentheses after the name". In this case the article title is somewhat confusing, given that there is only meant to be one article per song and that JLLs original is unlikely the most notable in Wikipedia terms. So although an article title indicates what the article is about, in a case like this where JLL is only included in the title for the sake of differentiation, it does not preclude cover versions from making up a higher proportion of the article in accordance with the notability of the cover(s).


 * I have looked up numerous examples of songs with significant cover versions to check my understanding of the proportion of articles devoted to cover versions. I found that when appropriate they show a greater proportion to the cover versions and sometimes including large chart tables. It seems to me that original recordings and cover versions should each have space devoted to them in proportion with their notability. Some of the examples I looked at are Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On, Hound Dog (song), Respect (song), Twist and Shout, Somethin'_Stupid, It_Takes_Two_(song), All Along The Watchtower, Hallelujah_(Leonard_Cohen_song) and I Swear.


 * Regarding the chart table that you do not like, and its references, the WP:SONGS guide under the "Chart performance and charts" section says "Songs that are popular enough to appear on prominent record charts should have a 'Chart performance' section. This section describes the song's history on the record charts and usually includes a table showing the song's peak chart positions."


 * My intention is to be encyclopedic, based on policies such as notability, verifiability and neutral point of view. I have done a quick look around to see if there is any chart entries or information of note about JLL's original recording that I could add to the article to increase the significance of the original recording in the article. Unfortunately I did not come up with anything. It appears to not have registered in the Billboard charts at all, separately from the A-side or joint with it as sometimes happens with double A-sides. Same with the UK singles chart. Really, it needs someone like a JLL devotee who has knowledge, access to some JLL resources, and time, to add such information to the article.


 * Best regards, AusChartMan (talk) 17:53, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I see that Ghmyrtle (I have no connection with him) has been able to add some dialogue about JLL's original version, which is great. The more professional look and separation headers for each artist I think look better and also add more prominence to the JLL original. I hope this all helps alleviate your concerns. Best regards, AusChartMan (talk) 07:47, 27 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi AusChartMan. This year I will certainly add a lot of information about Jerry Lee Lewis (so far unjustly scant presented here), especially re his work at Sun Records (1956-1963), including all his songs, albums, etc. I'm waiting for the issue of a sturdy work, to write I directly participating among a team of music researchers. Thank you for your patience, for your interest and for your explanation of so many things and sorry for my English.


 * I would be glad and grateful of your help on editing of a supposed articles, as I have a lot of stuff concerning the Rock & Roll until late 1950's, but I'm inexperienced in Wiki editing and moreover my English is too bad (I speak French and Russian). Can we communicate via e-mail?
 * Best regards, RocknRollArchivist (talk) 08:29, 27 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi RocknRollArchivist. Thanks for your reply. Sorry to have not replied before now. I am happy for you to leave questions on my talk page (talk). If you want to leave an email address for me there that's ok. But please be aware that I have quite limited time for Wikipedia, so I cannot promise to get back to you quickly, and there is only so much I can help with as I am not an full expert on Wikipedia. But you will be able to learn quite a bit from the links in our correspondence above and maybe some of the help links in the Welcome pack above.


 * I manage to find a lot of Wikipedia things just by searching Google. You can search for things like "Wikipedia album manual of style" and you will see how Wikipedia often defines a Manual of Style for different types of pages, for example you may be interested in Albums article of style guide. There is often a project page for particular types of pages, for example WikiProject Albums. There also often many templates like Template:Infobox single associated with a particular page type, which are a great help.


 * It is very important to Cite or reference sources of the information you add - without this, other editors may delete the information, especially if it seems unlikely to be correct to them. Although they should do some checking first (easier if its on the web, but much harder if in offline sources like books) and not mindlessly delete things.


 * One very useful thing for other editors (who check your work later) is to always put in a good description of what you added or changed in the Edit Summary. You will gain more trust by doing this. There is an option in your Wikipedia preferences to remind you to fill it in if you forget (which is easily done), so I recommend turning it on.


 * It is very useful to understand principles behind Wikipedia. You can learn what kind of things should and should not be included on Wikipedia, so check out things like notability, verifiability and neutral point of view. There is a lot more too when you have a look around.


 * I hope that helps get you started. Best regards, AusChartMan (talk) 15:54, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Ain't [It/]That a Shame
Can I suggest that the Fats Domino recording should have a separate heading to itself, covering its composition, the recording of the song, etc. Do you have session details, etc.?. So, the opening paragraph should (largely as now) list the writers, summarise the song's success etc - including mention of important cover versions - and then there should be a headed section focusing on Domino's recording, before the sections on Boone, etc. I don't want to get in your way in editing the article - just a suggestion! See, for example, "Johnny B. Goode". Thanks for your work. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:34, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, you're right. I just extended the paragraph of Pat Boone cover, added the Infobox song for his version and I'm going to separate the paragraph "Fats Domino versions". Unfortunately, I have only the session information, but nothing more. By the way, you can look at Kansas City (Leiber and Stoller song) where I completely "refurbished" the paragraph "Little Richard versions" some years ago, when I was working on Little Richard discography. However, I would like to deal with existing articles only if there are obvious gaps or inaccuracies like this. My current task is not to edit existing articles, but to write new articles modeled on User:RocknRollArchivist/Fats_Domino_recordings (which is almost finished, except some last concerts) for other artists. Therefore, I would be very grateful if you would take a critical look at this page, not so much in terms of its actual content (of which I am almost certain) as in terms of its structure and presentation. I am very worried about my poor English, realizing that any even the most detailed information presented with language errors is greatly devalued. RocknRollArchivist (talk) 17:59, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

April 2020
Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. This is just a note to let you know that I've moved the draft that you were working on to Draft:Fats Domino recordings, from its old location at User:RocknRollArchivist/Fats Domino recordings. This has been done because the Draft namespace is the preferred location for Articles for Creation submissions. Please feel free to continue to work on it there. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to ask me on my talk page. Thank you. Sulfurboy (talk) 18:31, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: List of Fats Domino recordings (April 13)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Utopes was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:List of Fats Domino recordings and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Utopes (talk / cont) 20:59, 13 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, . I hope you're still with us.  Please don't get discouraged if one editor decides to take a dislike to your submission - just let it pass, these things happen.  Your list is excellent, and would make a superb addition to the encyclopedia.  The only problem is the introductory text - it's not neutral, but more importantly is completely unnecessary.  Your article would supplement the existing articles on Fats Domino, and so the introduction is not needed.  All it needs to say is: "This is a list of recordings by Fats Domino", and then go straight on to the section on "Explanation of the table", etc.   I hope you'll resubmit with that change, and then I'm sure it'll sail through.  If there's a problem, please get back to me.  Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:36, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, . Thank you so much for your support. I edited the article as you suggested. Should I do something else? Best regards, RocknRollArchivist (talk) 11:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not very clued up on the process you need to go through (it only applies to new editors), but I think you just need to add to the top of your article and resubmit it.  If they still argue along the lines of WP:INDISCRIMINATE, there may be a need to take it further for others to comment.   The previous reviewer could have been a little more helpful, I think!   Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:35, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I resubmitted the article (by means on blue button) and I'm awaiting for re-review. RocknRollArchivist (talk) 12:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: List of Fats Domino recordings has been accepted
 List of Fats Domino recordings, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as List-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

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Thanks again, and happy editing! Sulfurboy (talk) 16:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

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