User talk:Rocknrollmancer

Welcome!
Hello, Rocknrollmancer, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:11, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
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Look who is the first on this side. His good old friend from 2013 Dennis who is not his friend when he is supporting him ;) "We see that" ;) --BIanca617 (talk) 06:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

May 2013
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June 2013
Hello, I'm Coasterlover1994. I wanted to let you know that I undid one of your recent contributions, such as the one you made with this edit to BSA Spitfire, because it didn’t appear constructive to me. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Coasterlover1994Leave your mark! 01:00, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Coasterlover1994Leave your mark! 19:42, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

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July 2013
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 * comparisons between Owen Greenwood's Mini and Colin Seeley's FCS-BMW. Accessed 2013-07-05   Fath-Camathias Special  . His best result as a competitor was a second place finish in the sidecar competition at the [[

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additional details
regarding your comment and the fact that several people have made similar unsolicited statements at the venues where he has appeared, do you have any place where the user has been officially warned or reminded about their inappropriate behavior? If they have multiple times been warned about juvenile harassment retribution attempts and they continue that behavior, an RfC where the incidents are collected may be the next appropriate step. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  02:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject Motorcycling
Invitation declined, ThanQ. However, I will continue to lurk, as I have always done.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:21, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Vision West Nottinghamshire College
Hello Rocknrollmancer.

Thank you for your recent contributions to Vision West Nottinghamshire College, I am aware of the confusion surrounding the current name and past names of the College. From what I understand it was called West Nottinghamshire College which remains its legal name until September 2011 when it was re-branded Vision West Notts which can be seen here  but only for a short time and it was re-branded again to Vision West Nottinghamshire College by June 2012 which can be seen here.

I am aware of the special status of the principal compared to other college principals however listing all her awards most of which have little relevance to information about the college seems rather excessive as the page not about her as such but more the college I would therefore quite strongly suggest creating an article titled Asha Khemka for information about her. C. 22468   Talk to me  14:24, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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Isle of Man TT Races
The issue with the carte blance application of the WP:INFOBOXFLAG policy to the Isle of Man TT pages has been the repeated removal of the Northern Ireland flags and leaving the other flags. Wikipedia policy allows for sub-nation flags and the issue of the Northern Ireland flag is a problem that the Northern Ireland Executive have not been able to resolve.

In respect to the discussion of safety issues relating to the Isle of Man TT or Manx Grand Prix there is a safety section contained in the main part of the Isle of Man TT article and also the problems has been discussed on the Isle of Man TT Talk Pages. The executive summary of the Isle of Man TT pages already mentions the safety issues.

In respect to your comments appearing the edit summary box of "IOM resident appears partisan non-neutral" of the 24th May 2014 in the Isle of Man TT pages, I have discussed many safety issues in the Talk Pages of the Isle of Man TT. A major issue that have raised is the number of fatal road traffic accidents RTA accidents that occur during the Isle of Man TT festival and Manx Grand Prix. During the period 1986-2004 the number of fatal RTA accidents to members of the public during the Isle of Man TT Festival was significantly higher than than deaths to competitors during racing. However, there has been a reduction to the number of fatal RTA since 2004 and also a reduction in the number of deaths to competitors on the Snaefell Mountain Course which has been due to additional safety fencing and more significantly the abandonment of the early morning practice sessions.

The Dakar Rally has been considered to be statistically the most dangerous event with approximately 1.9 deaths per event compared to 1.23 per event for the Snaefell Mountain Course. The Dakar Rally has also a high number of deaths to spectators and officials. During the period 1911-1939 the number of fatal accidents at the Indy 500 Races was 28 compared to 21 fatal accidents on the Snaefell Mountain Course. The first accident at the Isle of Man TT races occurred in 1911 at one of the slowest parts of the course and it is believed to be the first fatal automotive accident on the Isle of Man. In respect to the number of fatal accidents on the Snaefell Mountain Course the most dangerous parts of the course is also one of the slower section of the course and problems to competitors are caused to changes in direction on a downhill section of the course. The second most dangerous section of the Snaefell Mountain Course in respect to fatal accidents to competitors is a medium fast speed section which is the only part of the course which has experienced two double fatal accidents. In comparison, an accident occurred 1 km north of this second section in 2009 when a sidecar crew were badly injured after a collision with an European Brown Hare at a speed in access of 150 mph.  There are many different reason why fatal accidents occur and recently three spectators died in an accident at the 2014 Jim Clark Rally

In respect to safety issues, the Isle of Man TT pages and other pages have been deliberatively been left under-developed. This may not be an ideal situation and the Isle of Man TT Race are due to be completely written in the style of other major sporting events like the Tour de France. I have had to ask other contributors not to add whimsical, flippant or inappropriate comment in the edit summary when adding new additions to the List of Snaefell Mountain Course fatal accidents page. However, another inappropriate comment by user MGGK occurred on the 2nd June 2014. I finally note about Isle of Man residents, this morning I have been trying to add the 2014 Superstock TT times and found that the official practice times had conflicting and incorrect information. Agljones 12:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Input on image decision
Hi you are invited to vote for the image to be used on the LG G2 infobox page at Talk:LG G2. Thanks! GadgetsGuy (talk) 06:37, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

June 2014
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 * htm dropbears.com] ) knocked his confidence and relegated him to 8th overall in 2000. http://www.geocities.com/paul_fawcett/wss2000.htm </

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Orphaned non-free image File:Münch 4 1200 logo.JPG
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August 2014
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 * recreational routes of the Pleasley and Silverhill Trails. http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/enjoying/countryside/nature-reserves/teversal-trails/ Pleasley

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Mach III crop, photoshop
I reverted your edited version of the photo File:Kawasaki 500SS Mach III H1.jpg at commons because the original image is being used in an article and we prefer to avoid photoshopped images, per WP:MC-MOS, in motorcycling articles. We wanted to keep the view bikes in a natural context, to provide scale and so forth. Even if it doesn't look pretty. You're still welcome to upload an edited version of File:Kawasaki 500SS Mach III H1.jpg, but just do it under a different file name so both versions can be used. We can discuss the photo guidelines further at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycling if you like. Thanks! --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:56, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Windy Corner, Isle of Man
Hi Rocknrollmancer. You participated in Articles for deletion/Windy Corner, which was closed as "no consensus". The AfD was taken to Deletion review/Log/2014 November 27 where opinions are split between "endorse" and "overturn". I have started an RfC at Talk:Windy Corner, Isle of Man. Cunard (talk) 01:19, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

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Wainwright Primary Academy
Sorry was confused! Have corrected it now. - Bleaney (talk) 20:52, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

== deleted non-notable name in caption AGAIN, re-added maintenance tags deleted by IP 86.164.17.56 suggestive of involvement with manufacturer concerned, please read WP:COI, WP:PROMOTION Wikipedia is not a commercial promotional medium ==

Hi thank you for your edits. May I ask you to clarify the following statement: "suggestive of involvement with manufacturer concerned" Thankyou — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.102.187 (talk) 01:01, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "suggestive of involvement with manufacturer concerned" refers to the name "Peter Solman" being added previously, removed by myself, then was re-added soon after together with "Hesketh works rider". This implies some knowledge of the individual and business concerned. I did try to superficially Google-up the name, but only noticed a Twitter (or similar type) entry. Rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:41, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Rocknrollmancer to confirm Peter Solman is in full time employment with Hesketh Motorcycles as "Works rider" and "Technical Director". Please free to contach Hesketh Motorcycles to confirm this. On this basis you above statement is correct in as much as you could not verify but Peter Solman is actually linked with Hesketh Motorcycles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.102.187 (talk) 09:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * OK thanks for the info. Wikipedia does not normally name individuals unless they are the subject of independent press coverage which signifies them as 'notable', that is, outstanding in some ongoing way. rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:21, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Derek Minter
Hi Rocknrollmancer, Thanks for your message re citatitions etc. I must admit I was a bit uneasy about BSN but the only other one I could find at the time was crash.net, so lesser of evils... Anyways I've now replaced it with one from MCN which I think is better. Must have missed it last night! Thanks for the link to the FB page... (FB not acceptable for citations I am told). AS for when the straight was re-named, I have some mags from late 60s when it was still Portobello but do not know when it was changed. It was Minter by early 80s I'm pretty sure, but I expect finding a precise date would be quite difficult. I think it was when the rest of the circuit was re-named but do not recall when that was. Sorry. Regards. Eagleash (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2015 (UTC) PS who put "Derrick" in the persondata?!! Eagleash (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

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Italian motorcycle Grand Prix
I apologize for my delayed response. Wouldn't the MotoGP web site qualify as a reputable source for the Nations Grand Prix name? In any case, I will look for a hard copy source from my literature but, unfortunately, I will be away from home for another two weeks before I will have access to my books.Orsoni (talk) 10:19, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * OK thanks no problem with time-frame. I am the world's worst for acceptance of websites, most of which I regard as unregulated, that is, not associated with a publishing house. I have written most of the Derek Minter page and when he died a few days ago I am seeing what I wrote on websites. The fear here is that someone writes anything on Wikipedia in 2006 or 2008, it gets picked up by a self-published site, then someone else much later provides the same info as a verification, as in WP:CIRCULAR. I usually try to cross-source where possible using two or three, as mistakes are made, even in hard-published, expensive books. I've only skimmed-through so far but I've found a Jarno Saarinen image, the original source of which quotes 1971 Imola, and the Wikipedia aspects quote Monza for that year. I don't recognise the corner, maybe you do? Imola is stated to run backwards, and there are few right-handers. File:Jarno Saarinen at 1971 Nations motorcycle Grand Prix.jpg Wikimedia Commons description, English: Jarno Saarinen at 1971 Nations motorcycle Grand Prix, Monza, Italy Source in Italy: Motociclismo Source description: Dalla Finlandia, Jarno Saarinen inaugura una posizione in sella ancora attuale: corpo “lanciato” vero l’interno della curva, ginocchio a sfiorare l’asfalto. Qui in piega al Gran Premio delle Nazioni del 1971, a Imola. Google translation: From Finland, Jarno Saarinen inaugurates a riding position still present: body "launched" the true inside of the bend, knee to touch the asphalt. Here in the fold at the Grand Prix of Nations, 1971, in Imola. It's those sort of discrepancies that I look out for. Rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:41, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Gooseneck, Isle of Man, pics and other
Thanks! for responding about photos for Gooseneck, Isle of Man, within the Articles for deletion/Gooseneck, Isle of Man. You said you'd try to get a photo, great, but suggested a demotivating factor is that the article and other named corners are subject to the nom's agenda to delete. Well, having photos would help bolster the articles, help defend from deletion, is another way to look at it. So even if the only pics you can find are pretty low quality, they would still help, and as thumbnail pics in the article, it doesn't matter too much. I think it would suggest/challenge people to provide better pics next year.

Also each of the articles could be added to, with details of riders and spectators who died there or nearby, and also about memorials in place there. This can be sourced, and is detailed info that is not suitable for merging into one too-big article, which also defends the pages. I commented about that info, will comment more, at Talk:Snaefell Mountain Course. I see there are a couple responses there. Thanks again, and keep up the good work! By the way i was generally ignorant about the Isle of Man TT races, and have found it interesting to learn a bit....actually i like the angle of the academic studies exploring spectator views of risk and masculinity and so on. Cheers, -- do ncr  am  04:27, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, agreed,, point taken - this deletion sequence has been ongoing since the autumn (no idea of the numbers of the many nominations or the outcomes, either delete or merge, but is a bloody shame as once it's gone only an admin can see the content (admittedly poor for some articles). I agree that sequential articles could be usefully merged, for example Sulby Bridge leading to Ginger Hall. I threw together Ginger Hall at the kitchen table where I am now 10.55 AM; it was subsequently deleted but I see recently re-created as Ginger Hall, Isle of Man. I, too, had a nasty moment at the Gooseneck on 'closed' roads in 1982, that is, one-way only across the mountain on Mad Sunday, about 7.00PM when it was quiet. A Manx registered Mini City came the 'wrong' way but fortunately - as right handers are 'open' - meaning one can and should look across - I was able to handle it, although disturbed, and only rode on the white line for the remainder where necessary. I stopped at the next police presence at the Bungalow a few miles on and they confirmed no car had passed them so I assume it just came from the side road at the Gooseneck which leads down to the road aligned up the coast to Ramsey. Could have been a lot worse further back along the course at the left-hand Ramsey Hairpin as that bike, a Suzuki Katana 1000 missed second to first gear often and I'd previously run on a bit when trying to get a gear, when using my own 'normal' side of the road BTW, we were able to spectate on the inside of the Gooseneck back then. This is a pic of Hailwood during the 250 race in 1978 - I would have been just to the left on the inside banking! The Flickr images with few spectators appear to be practise! rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:04, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

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contact
Hi, i wonder if we could share some stuff by email, like about articles and photos in the IOM races area. I have some to send you. I see your account here not email-enabled (for others to be able to email you from a link that would appear at left), but my account is enabled. You could email me from link at left of my User and User-talk pages. Privacy-wise, all that gives up is that we each learn each other's email address, for whatever email account we choose to use for Wikipedia-related email, if that matters. No problem if not interested or not convenient now or whatever, no reply necessary. cheers, -- do ncr  am  17:15, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

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Honda CD175
Hi Rocknrollmancer, Thanks for your edits on the CD175 page. You are right, the article needs a quite a bit of work, as do many bike articles on Wiki. I have stumbled upon several which have been just a couple of lines, no infobox, a picture, if included at all, not conventionally displayed and full of "it's my bike so I know all about it etc." together with a bulleted list of unref'd over detailed technical specifications. I often try to fettle these articles up but willing as I am to help I don't have a great stock of reference material. And I often wonder how they get accepted in the first place? Anyway, just sounding off... (still on the lookout for refs for the Minter straight!). Regards Eagleash (talk) 22:09, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey Ash, or is it leash? . This CD175 has been on my mental 'to do' list for two years, but I am now winding down my contributions just to simple edits, citations and images, not so much the prose. The problem is that I have a reluctance to re-write or overwrite in case I am in the wrong (and I have been...) and it takes hours of input. Often there is a boon - even with an obscure, unpopular article - in that I gain an unexpected bonus for my core research project(s) off-Wikipedia. One is nine months behind. I've taken to 'seeding' test edits firstly to lure-out the controlling factions and POV-pushers - an article is static then after one change, someone else is jumping all over it (not that I would be any different). The CD175 trashy content mostly emanates from here. I eventually trawl throught the histories when I have to, but now I feel better about overwriting it. This is where t-bone stamped frame comes from - I can't make up my mind whether this one-time wonder is English or American - nothing conclusive. Needs an image, I think there's only one with a pressed steel frame on Flickr (in the Sammy Miller museum), I can't make up my mind if the uploader is English first language. I guess I'll have to send a simple message firstly to see if they are agreeable to changing the licence. BTW, I saw your Danny Light-thingy earlier - found his birth but not death - there are omissions in the records, but did he die abroad? 'Derek' pics here rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:59, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi again, ah now well... my initials are A.S.H. and the Eagle part is a convoluted story but to cut it short comes basically from the fact that I follow Crystal Palace F.C. (though not an avid fan really). I see what you mean about the editor whose contribs you linked to. I don't think I've heard of a "T-bone" previously either. If I was asked I would probably surmise that the bike had a similar layout to the CD200 & CD125 but they are both later and I really have no idea what changes might have occured in the intervening period. The 125 and 200 had 'open diamond, engine as stressed member' type frames and in the pic of the CD175, the frame looks very similar to those bikes. But Wiki doesn't like "guessing"... :P

As for Danny Light, he was last known to be living in West Sussex, but I don't know where he died. I am posting on the CPFC forum hoping that the book author will see it and be able to fill in some blanks. (Oh, did read Dennis' contribution before it vanished!) Best. Eagleash (talk) 00:05, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

May 2015
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to Wikipedia. However, please remember that editors do not own articles and should respect the work of their fellow contributors on Honda CB400F. If you create or edit an article, remember that others are free to change its content. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. ''See this edit summary: "if you're going to homogenise and sanitise my reference into a contrived template format, watch out for too-many quotation marks....."See also Please do not bite the newcomers. Formatting citations is difficult, and everyone makes mistakes!'' Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:24, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk Page
Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia WP:NA Do not use my talkpages for personal attacks or user my talkpage to converse with another editor. Consider this a warning. It has been explained to you before that I do not have administrator rights and I cannot delete articles and do not make any further personal comments. In regard to flags Wikipedia states that "Many editors, however, feel that the UK's subnations in particular are an exception in sporting contexts." agljones(talk)18:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * For the information of those watching my talk page, the author of the message above has been blocked for six months as a Sockpuppet Master with the alt account 11thmilestone blocked indefinitely; I contributed in a small way to his exposure. agljones has repeatedly reverted, deleted, removed under the guise of "sub edited" and otherwise interfered-with several-to-many of my contributions to various Isle of Man and/or Isle of Man TT Races articles, which he has historically been allowed to unilaterally control through attrition and bullying. I have identified him, IRL, and also his employer which indicates/confirms a conflict of interest - as I always suspected when he firstly launched into me in May, 2014: * where I cited existing prose x3 * prose and citations deleted by agljones * reverted by myself with the edit-summary "rvt with clarification, deletion of prose + 3 sources by IOM resident appears partisan non-neutral COI" * immediately reverted by agljones At which point I gave up fighting against an obsessive, controlling individual on this particular edit-sequence, and eventually all Isle of Man articles.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I now find - as expected - agljones has implicated me into the reasons for his block. If any admin requests, I will continue to compile pairs of diffs to confirm all of the deletions to my contributions made by this individual - I guessed at around twenty some months ago. The article I referred to as deleted by agljones (which I threw together at the kitchen table when initially proposed for deletion Oct/Nov 2014) was, after consensus, relocated by the nom/editor into another article and was thus able to be deleted by agljones, -1,787 bytes, 14 Dec 2014 . agljones recreated the article Ginger Hall, Isle of Man 11 Feb 2015 .--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Talk Page
Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia WP:NA Do not use my talkpages for personal attacks or user my talkpage to converse with another editor. Consider this a warning. It has been explained to you before that I do not have administrator rights and I cannot delete articles and do not make any further personal comments. In regard to flags Wikipedia states that "Many editors, however, feel that the UK's subnations in particular are an exception in sporting contexts." agljones(talk)18:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * For the information of those watching my talk page, the author of the message above has been blocked for six months as a Sockpuppet Master with the alt account 11thmilestone blocked indefinitely; I contributed in a small way to his exposure. agljones has repeatedly reverted, deleted, removed under the guise of "sub edited" and otherwise interfered-with several-to-many of my contributions to various Isle of Man and/or Isle of Man TT Races articles, which he has historically been allowed to unilaterally control through attrition and bullying. I have identified him, IRL, and also his employer which indicates/confirms a conflict of interest - as I always suspected when he firstly launched into me in May, 2014: * where I cited existing prose x3 * prose and citations deleted by agljones * reverted by myself with the edit-summary "rvt with clarification, deletion of prose + 3 sources by IOM resident appears partisan non-neutral COI" * immediately reverted by agljones At which point I gave up fighting against an obsessive, controlling individual on this particular edit-sequence, and eventually all Isle of Man articles.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I now find - as expected - agljones has implicated me into the reasons for his block. If any admin requests, I will continue to compile pairs of diffs to confirm all of the deletions to my contributions made by this individual - I guessed at around twenty some months ago. The article I referred to as deleted by agljones (which I threw together at the kitchen table when initially proposed for deletion Oct/Nov 2014) was, after consensus, relocated by the nom/editor into another article and was thus able to be deleted by agljones, -1,787 bytes, 14 Dec 2014 . agljones recreated the article Ginger Hall, Isle of Man 11 Feb 2015 .--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

IoM notes
Thanks for sharing above. About being "implicated" I would not worry about it. Your comments were justified and helpful; they helped me certainly, when I had reason to be down about my efforts. Right now I could respond point-by-point to those quotes about you and the ones about me, but there's no appropriate venue or reason to do so right now, and no response is necessary I believe. Most experienced editors here will understand very well what went on, if reviewing them in any future proceeding.

About the Ginger Hall deletion by Agljones, that was confusing for me to figure out when I saw it mentioned recently. I'll note it here before I lose it, as this might help later. What I reconstruct is:
 * another editor, not a big supporter of IoM TT named corners coverage (call them NS for non-supporter) had put up article Ginger Hall for deletion.
 * There was bad stuff said there, unnecessarily.
 * Articles for deletion/Ginger Hall eventually closed "No consensus".
 * NS chose, on their own, to merge and redirect it. I'm not sure whether that was good practice or not;  editors are usually allowed to make judgments and move materials, but less so when the material and its location is disputed/controversial.  More so if they are supporting/shepherding the topic treatment carefully not to offend others.IMHO anyone would have been entitled to revert that.  Merge and redirect were:
 * 8 December 2014: a cut-and-paste of entire Ginger Hall article into a new section of Snaefell Mountain Course. Then walk away.  Not helpful at all: it was obviously out of place there.  Edit was [this diff just plopping it in "(→‎Named corners: merged)"
 * 8 December 2014: [in this diff changed Ginger Hall to be a simple redirect to Snaefell Mountain Course, not even directing it to the new section (perhaps as NS rightly assumed the section would not last). [[Ginger Hall]] right now is a redirect to List of named corners of Snaefell Mountain Course
 * 14 December: Agljones deleted the entire passage at Snaefell Mountain Course in Minor-tagged edit with summary "TT competitors only (Ginger Hall previously deleted for lack of notability, no secondary sources,editor unfamiliar with subject, not A14 road( B8 Claddagh Road)". That was not helpful either;  whether Agljones meant to or not they were the person removing all Ginger Hall content from Wikipedia, even though the AfD failed to support that.  They were right it did not belong there, but there were better alternatives (work some into the Named corners section; ask others what can be done; obtain consensus to revert the merger and redirect; open a list-article)
 * 11 February 2015‎, Agljones creates new Ginger Hall, Isle of Man article. As a brand new article!, not restoring from redirect and using the previous version.  I have since edited there in minor ways.  The article, like others, in fact fails to assert or explain importance (a speedy deletion criteria).  It says Ginger Hall is a road junction, but is written as if the general area is the topic and as if the area is notable.  The references included probably do not provide substantial coverage of Ginger Hall as an area;  it would be reasonable to expect they provide mere mentions of the name in a sentence or two (or not even that).


 * Further notes:
 * By the way, references which are completely inadequate for supporting notability of a separate article, especially when stretched for that purpose, can be perfectly adequate for supporting non-stretched small assertions in a list-item. The notability issue for a list-article is at the list-article level (and the listing of named corners is well-established);  editors at a list-article can define list-item notability by any reasonable local consensus.
 * Reasonable people would agree a full article's worth of Ginger Hall treatment didn't belong in the SMC article. What was called for by a number of editors in previous AfDs was a list-article, i see later, eventually.  To me arriving in February at Windy Corner AFD it seemed obvious that a List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course can serve well to index the existing named corner articles that have any substance and support their continued existence, and to serve as a reasonable redirect target for named corner articles that have virtually no content.  I created that;  Agljones contested every aspect of it;  I have just restored it from A's last edit.
 * When I look at it now the original Ginger Hall article just after AFD concluded, was a reasonable two-sentence stub article. It honestly and directly states "Ginger Hall is an uphill left-hand bend following ...  a popular vantage point ...."  It arguably could be moved into one row in the list-article, but it is also okay IMO as a stub.  More about the Ginger Hall Hotel could/should be added.
 * If substantial material never emerges so it can be developed a bit more (more than what can be said conveniently in a description in the list-article row) then it could possibly be merged and redirected to the list-article row, later.
 * Right now what makes sense to me is for the original Ginger Hall article to be restored and expanded a bit, for the new one to be deleted entirely, for the original to be moved to the "Ginger Hall, Isle of Man" location. I think I can see to that being done (in part by the wp:RM process), I guess, so will do so.  Feel free to develop the original article.
 * I do see in this sequence of events that Rocknrollmancer, your perfectly good start on an article was trashed several times over, and it would certainly be undermining of anyone's willingness to contribute in this area. I am "here to stay" in terms of supporting reasonable development of IoM TT treatment; I do find it interesting.  I hope that others can come back or join anew, while there is a breather.  And hopefully also the now-blocked-for-socking editor will return and contribute constructively (I hope they will participate chiefly by contributing factual information and making concrete, specific suggestions at Talk pages in an incremental, Wikipedian process).  No one is enjoying anything about this.  I do appreciate their knowledge and their willingness to put in effort.  I put in a lot of effort myself, trying to help, trying to decipher/extract positive contributions.  I was almost ready to open an administrative proceeding towards obtaining a ban on editing in this area or otherwise address the situation.  I have a lot documented, but will not proceed with that now.  Hopefully a break will help us all -- I have been blocked myself (unfairly IMO) and found it to go by quickly and to have been a good thing in many ways.
 * I hope this helps; it helps me to get this recorded. -- do  ncr  am  01:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I firstly encountered agljones just over a year ago, reverting me and spuriously asserting that Paris-Dakar was the world's most dangerous motorcycle race when it is incomparable, being mixed-vehicle and quite unlike TT races - not a closely-controlled, circuitous, multi-lap road-race, + the speeds, at up to 200 mph, are more than twice as high; his obsessive control over the IoM articles (more than could reasonably be expected through mere 'Stewardship') caused me watch his partisan, non-neutral, pro-Manx contributions to get a 'flavour' of the individual's motivations and topics, particularly in adding many, many infobox flagicons - with two flags for each IoM-based competitor - swamping many articles, contrary to established protocols and not consistent with the good-compliance expected of an editor with reviewer-rights (what I referred to as a "one-striper") who needs to be neutral. Eventually I noticed a series of intended deletions - "supermarket shopping", I learned, was the Wikijargon used to describe the nom/NS's activities. Many of the smaller, poor stubs could (have) be(en) merged into the preceding/following articles as listed in the course template - given adequate time - as it was back then. Suspicious of the nom/NS, I surveilled 'their' worklist, which led me to other IoM articles. Due to the urgency with AfD-type pressures, I added what I could, but not always the 'best', often just an expedient. The Ginger Hall edit-summary sniping remark "not A14 road, (B8 Claddagh Road)" was targeted at me - in my haste I erroneously glanced at the map when adding the prose about back-road links to The Bungalow, redlinked as agljones has renamed some as Anyplace, Isle of Man. For an example of what you may not know, in November 2014, start here with particular attention here for agljones determined overwrite and deletion of my content with sources, not an expansion, under the guise of "sub-edit" just 10 hours later, particularly the You Tube crash sequence Conor Cummins' 2010 World-known crash at the Verandah. agljones complains he did not delete my contributions - simply much wasted effort on my part, quickly deleted by a controlling, complete reprobate, a partisan, pro-Manx editor who does not intend to allow neutrality which could show the IoM in a bad light. I had to accept this, fearing more of the same warring from a seasoned edit-warrior as previously. Eventually I lost all interest due to agljones' singular control involving deletions and/or other interference + whinging about the unsuitability of images according to his personal requirements, and took the decision to abandon any involvement in the IoM articles, mostly with removal from my watchlist, except for an occasional talk-page comment prompted by seeing the same hackneyed old arguments time after time from the same individual - what the nom/NS described during protracted interactions with agljones as "tl;dr" (again, like supermarket shopping, a learning experience for me - in this instance via Google). All of this causes much down-time, at a point when I have been intending to 'step-away' from Wikipedia, so it matters not if I am blocked - Wikipedia will ultimately suffer. My comments were accurate, not abusive; no comments would have been necessary without the concerted interference I experienced. Deletion of contributions and valid references cannot be sanctioned by dint of WP:OWN As I am involved in much other research for non-Wikipedia consequences, inevitably this often leads to small additions which could improve the readability and encyclopedic content which I would try to add, if no interference was assured, as with Kepple Gate. All this nastiness/nasty mess is not what I 'signed up' for, so I hope the Block reviewers read this. Should agljones be unblocked (reading his assurances of (faux) contrition - he had flu and knew of a death locally, he completely forgot he had a long-standing alt account...but remembered the login detail...? And the quasi-scripture is outrageous) - then, if I'm still unblocked, I expect to be subjected to more pent-up wrath. Lastly, I have had to abandon other articles unconnected with IoM, entirely on principle due to dissatisfaction with those trying - fully intending - to control; accordingly, anticipate there are some of these surveilling me.....Again, this is not what I 'signed up' for. Rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk)
 * Again(21 June), agljones is trying to implicate me in the block sequence - entirely expected, as it was I who uncovered the two images provided as unequivocal evidence of the two usernames being one person. I have shown above some more evidence of the concerted contol/deletion/overwrite sequences where he removed prose and references within 10 hours on The Verandah 12 November 2014. I have already provided evidence of deletions of contributions and references, and of deleting an entire article when the opportunity arose, despite agljones protestations he did not do it, it was established. Because of this expected warring (started in May 2014) from a long-term controlling individual who has historically been allowed over-riding authority on the IoM portal-type articles, I gradually had to abandon any such articles, taking off my watchlist, and have had little-to-no contact with this individual. Despite the evidence I could have provided, I chose to step away and avoid likely confrontation, knowing this was a long-term, seasoned edit warrior and wikilawyer but I did offer occasional talk page comments on the continual/continuing control trying to be effected by agljones on IoM articles. Accordingly, I have not had any contact with this individual for months, from memory the last comment was March 2015. I did not receive any warning from anyone for abuse. By abandoning WP:AGF and WP:OWN in deleting/overwriting prose and substantial references, agljones forfeited any considerations and was not entitled to faux-respect - he gets back what he started, but in a different way. I have no accurate memories of the magnitude of deletions to my contributions. I have evidenced The Verandah above, other potential instances are Ginger Hall, Gooseneck, Windy Corner and maybe Brandish and Hillberry - I haven't checked and will not do so, wasting more time, without good reason - as stated I generally abandoned all or most Isle of Man articles months ago. I have now resumed improvements on a few IoM articles, and will continue provided agljones remains blocked. If he succeeds in unblock attempts by way of faux-contrition and spurious allegations against me when I abandoned the articles months ago, then I will again abandon improvments to IoM articles which I know need a different focus from a non-COI, non-controlling, neutral contributor. As stated above, this nastiness - whinging, sniping, gaming the system and Wikilawyering is not what I anticipated. My niece is a website moderator on a children's portal - this is similar, but the determined, bullying individuals are supposed to be adults. I have now started to go through agljones and 11thmilestone contributions - already I have reverted one unnecessary deletion where an online source was replaced by a reference to hard-copy (I retained both sources, being best-practice) and improved the table entry with correct wikilinks. This needed neutral editing, not from a partisan/pro-IoM, singularly-motivated, one-topic-only individual who thinks he can do it better than anyone else, to the exclusion/deletion of their contributions and references, without a second thought. In his unblock request agljones is asserting first offence for a long-term editor - this is worse, as long-term implies fuller-knowledge of Wikipedia and therefore his determined transgression cannot be regarded as trivial or innocent, merely carefully-considered. The only regret he may experience is being exposed, otherwise the duplicity would have continued.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Rocknrollmancer, thank you for your good edits to several articles. For example your copyediting the Brandywell article is excellent IMO.  You vastly improved the lede in the Keppel Gate article.  I believe you have made a correction in this edit at Bray Hill, and tho it is a bit beyond me technically, i do believe you that it is an important correction.  I appreciate that you added to List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course.  I hope you think the development there is going well.  I added some more of the more notable corners.  Now finally it is not just me contributing, yay!  And I switched over a section of the important Isle of Man TT article into being more encyclopedic, i.e. sourcing all facts asserted rather than tolerating unsourced info.  Do let's both keep developing.


 * About building a group of constructive editors, I hope/expect that others will find their way back to editing in the Isle of Man TT area. I posted invitation to others to help with sourcing and comment on other matters at the Talk page.  Another thing I/we can do is to pose a discussion question or two, like for a resolution to cover rather than to suppress mentions of the danger and the accidents that happen in IoM TT racing.  And to invite all persons who have commented in AfDs during the last year to comment.  That will reach some good editors who had only commented in passing, and will likely increase reasonable editing in IoM area.


 * Please don't be bothered by ridiculous assertions of a blocked editor about you (and me) at his Talk page. Contriving to twist the term "pro-Manx" into a racist expression is nonsense.  Let me say for you, so you don't feel you have to reply:  it is nonsense!  It is nonsense for anyone to assert Rocknrollmancer has any iota of racism.  And in fact the assertion is an unjustified personal attack along the lines of what that editor is trying to complain about.  Do let's--you and me--follow the advice in wp:NPA about personal attacks, and basically ignore them, and basically not discuss the editor.  Anyhow, please understand that administrators considering the blocked editor's requests will likely not comment about them, so don't be disappointed that the accusations aren't investigated or dealt with in any way.  If they do ignore the comments, these administrators would be following the generally good advice: "editors are encouraged to disregard angry and ill-mannered postings of others when it is reasonable to do so, and to continue to focus their efforts on improving and developing the encyclopedia" and they would complete their job to process the request with a reasonable judgment about the sockpuppeting.  Their not commenting should be interpreted as their understanding completely, and choosing not to respond, and their focussing instead on getting on with matters.  (This posting by me is technically a response, too, but I really will prefer not to respond at all to further outbursts there.)


 * Anyhow...you and I both can and should continue with positive development, that's the best way to get over past nonsense. Hmm, it is rather late and it is raining very hard, with rumbling thunder, where I am.  Happy it will cool things off and it will be a nice day tomorrow. :)  Cheers, -- do  ncr  am  06:04, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks a bunch - the reason I have added comments with links is that I don't have a user page to which I can attach a sub-page tabulating the changes made to my contributions by agljones - maybe I should do exactly this. I will continue to check on these alterations to my contributions, but on an ad hoc basis, wherever I encounter it. I have encountered two or three controlling individuals, all ten year veterans, but I do not suppose any would delete good prose supported by reliable sources (or overwrite), just for obsessive personal preferences. agljones has been a partisan, pro-IoM editor, which is fine...but not to the point of singular-topic, non-neutrality and exclusion of others' contributions. When requested not to include spoilers in the edit summary of race-results, agljones nonchalantly suggested that the other editor remove the page from his watchlist. Moreover, agljones has been using Wikipedia wrongly as a press source trying to beat other editors in adding the race-info in real-time , adding "The Bruce Anstey photo was added while the Supersport press conference was still in progress and was possibly one of the first images on the internet of the winner. Perhaps you would like remove the page of the watchlist". Normally, I sandbox Wikipedia article drafts and then save as a draft webmail, privately, but felt this infomation about agljones - when he contests having deleted 20 of my contributions - should be made publicly available, like the spurious tagging of images: Brandywell 15 March 2015 , at The Bungalow, Isle of Man with the repositioning and size-change 3 June 2014 followed by the spurious tagging  15 March 2015. It helps me to keep track of the changes. The edit content you don't understand at Bray Hill  is where an editor in GF wrongly captioned as "scraping of the road surface created by the foot rests of the motorcycles as their suspension compresses". The footrests are well-clear of the ground, as they should be have to be at 160mph. Only when the bikes are extremely heeled-over (AKA leaned over, banked or banked-over and other terms) do the footpegs come anywhere near the ground. The levels of banking at the top and bottom of Bray Hill are slight. This can be seen in the Joey Dunlop pic File:JoeyDunlopTT1992BrayHill.jpg where the foot pegs (formatted differently, foot rests, footrests, foot pegs, footpegs - all are correct) can be deduced to be 8 or 9 inches from the ground. In modern FIM-controlled racing (which the ACU in UK is aligned to), the motorcycle fairing belly pans are catch-tanks designed and intended to contain up to 1 gallon of engine oil and 1 gallon of coolant in the event of sudden explosive engine failure (figures of 1 gallon each are notional, just for an example). Repeated grounding and impacts (abnormal compared with short circuit racing) at various points around the course could cause abrasion and/or stress-fracturing, wearing away and potentially causing the belly-pan to break-away, dangerously. I am not an expert in modern IoM machine preparation, but I imagine there are titanium sliders attached to the belly-pan as abrasion-resistance and physical reinforcement. See You Tube sparks at Bray Hill compression. The solo lines across the course can vary by 3 or 4 feet in many places. I further surmise that sidecar outfits have similar devices and they too may cause gouges in the road surface. Hope this helps. BTW, I am more of an inclusionist, and, if anything, pro-Manx but not obsessively so. Always a pleasure.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:19, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * PS. I've only just seen the agljones' 'racist' complaint...really is puerile, despicable and clutching at straws. Agljones has waged a concerted war against me from May/June 2014, abandoning WP:AGF in that editors have the right to expect that good contributions with sources should not be reverted, overwritten or otherwise intefered-with, witnessed by spurious and deliberate CopyVio tagging of images I added. WP:OWN does not sanction this amount of control for one individual to target another. I had to abandon the articles, removing from Watchlist, and distance myself from agljones from March 2015 until June 2015 when I confirmed the deception of contributing via two usernames. By abandoning and disrespecting basic Wikpedia precepts of WP:AGF and WP:OWN, agljones behaved in an unacceptable manner, forfeiting any rights restricting commenting to the edits, not the individual; it has become necessary to establish the motivation and determination of the individual which has caused all of this warring, necessitating firm comments, not faux respect and humility as a reward for concerted deletion of contributions. If agljones succeeds in having me sanctioned or blocked, as stated earlier, it matters not as I've already stated my intention at least twice elsewhere that I am drifting-away in any case, just doing references, images, logos, not so much prose expansion. Ultimately, Wikipedia would suffer, not me.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:42, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Tools for reference
If/when it is necessary to refer to past history in proceedings, the assembly of documentation is eased by several tools, if you know about them. They sure would have been helpful for me in the past for collecting large, good collection of illustrative bullying-type interactions (involving following, destructive editing, and having other characteristics that academics and practitioners identify with bullying). The wmflabs site is sporadically down, and the individual tool-authors might or might not keep them available, so you can't be sure that these will run every time. But they're running now. So: With these tools, diff collection for certain kinds of behavior is relatively easy. One can collect the url's of actual diffs relatively easily, and/or one can simply copy-paste selections from the tools' output into an appropriate proceeding. The tools are lacking in some respects: it would help if "timeline" would show size of edit changes. And there's no tool AFAIK that documents following/bullying-type behavior going on at multiple pages simultaneously, in cross-section. So your recording some notes off-line about what you regard as the most egregious behaviors/cases can be useful, but note you may not have to painstakingly collect the relevant diffs manually. You might save PDF files of the tool output for some of those cases. I use cutepdf free software to be able to print any webpage to a PDF file. If you have that you need not collect individual diffs manually unless/until necessary. Also you're generally advised not to record notes pages of negative info about another user within Wikipedia, with important exception that you may do so when preparing for imminent proceedings. So save the notes off-line, no problem. I hope you find this encouraging. -- do ncr  am  22:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Intersect-contribs tool, written by piotrdn, identifies 12 overlapping pages btwn yourself and one editor in this output with number edits of one, or other version sorted differently and giving number edits of other. There are 48 overlaps between yourself and a second editor.  To see the output you have to scroll down the same page as where you gave the input parameters.
 * Edit interaction analyzer, by sigma, as in this example applied to interactions of three editors, is useful for identifying/recalling locations of contention.
 * Timeline, also by sigma: Within the output of Edit Interaction Analyzer, click on the small-print "timeline" to see detail of the interaction at a given page, as in this application documenting the edits at Brandywell page, showing timing (in reverse chronological order) and edit summaries.  Can further click on any edit's diff to see it.
 * OK, thanks very much. I have tried to use tools occasionally, but found mostly no success, with slow response, so it could have been they were also off-line and I didn't know the difference. The message above I read at 2 in the morning...then had nightmares. Or it could have been watching Falling Skies from Series one, episode one on catch-up cable TV, in preparation for the new series starting 30 June. I will give the above tools another go to become more familiar. Rgs.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:22, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Kawasaki H2R at IOMTT
Don't know if you saw this, but there is a discussion about top speed records at Talk:Kawasaki Ninja H2. Cheers — Brianhe (talk) 20:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

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Nations GP
Hi,

Sorry for the belated response. I don't do much editing nowadays. Anyway, regarding the Nations GP - the race in Italy certainly started off as the Gran Premio delle Nazioni (see these period news clips - http://www.britishpathe.com/video/monza-motorcycle-grand-prix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T99hqjtK7qc)

I've thrown together a gallery of programmes and miscellaneous bits that show the name of the race - http://imgur.com/a/fAEOo

I have a near-complete collection of sporting yearbooks from MotorCycling magazine (the green one) up to 1961, and the race is referred to as the Nations GP in all of those.

Even the MotoGP website lists it as the Nations GP before 1991 - http://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics/1990/NAT/500cc

What I can't find is a good source for the reason behind the name change. Vincent Glon's site says that it was down to a standardisation, but I'm not certain if it would pass muster. http://racingmemo.free.fr/M%20GRAND%20PRIX/MGP-PALM-ITA.htm

Readro (talk) 22:00, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

additions thanks and minor comment
Thanks for numerous images and more added recently!
 * A small thing: it's not usual practice elsewhere to use "minor edit" indicator on any edit making a significant contribution like adding a pic.  "Minor edit" hides the change from editors who have their watchlist set to suppress them (as I think was the default and many/most editors have), so in the past it became an issue about various problem editors who seemed to be seeking to introduce controversial changes secretly.  And using minor edit became sort of criminalized.  So anyhow I think "Minor edit" should pretty much only be used for fixing typos, and I did chastise another IoM TT editor about that within the last year or so (who seemed to have "minor edit" as a default setting somehow), so I should mention it to you too.
 * About "alternative rows", I see three of them in the "List of named corners" article, and I think you must have added them. Perhaps you are being extra-polite when you have a better/different image or description?  Please wp:be bold and just replace any existing image with something you feel makes an improvement, and same for descriptions.  Of course it is not technically correct for the mainspace to show editing-in-process like alternate rows for consideration, especially not for a long time.  Although short-term tags like "under construction" are fine, in the long-term the wikipedia shouldn't be self-referencing, shouldn't be calling readers' attention to editing questions.  If you think there could be differences of opinion among editors about some change, and you want to be extra-sure not to offend someone by seeming to sneak something by, you could possibly post about it at the Talk page, linking to the diff of the change or showing the alternatives there on the Talk page.  Don't worry about me at all, anyhow;  I will be curious enough to look at diffs myself occasionally to see what you've added/changed, and I would bring it up if I have any serious comments.  Please do go ahead and pick one row to keep in, and delete the other.  By the way in one or two of those alternative rows, I see there is other info like coordinates that differ, and i assume you would be careful about picking a reasonable version of coordinates to use in the surviving row. -- do  ncr  am  14:35, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Nessie cropped low res.JPG
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Confused
Hi Rocknrollmancer. I see you've been reverting an ip address on Manx pound, however, your edit summaries appear to be showing an immense amount of bad faith. I've looked at the edit and I fully agree with it, I've removed the name from the article, it's not referring to any sort of reference, there's no way anyone can look up any information in the article based upon that source. Therefore, it should be removed. I do ask that you please remember the policy of assuming good faith with regard to IP edits. WormTT(talk</b>) 09:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * For the benefit of those surveilling my talk page, this sequence above relates to a recent Sock Puppet Investigation where the Sock Master was unblocked with the admin's express instructions "...you would only be able to edit when logged into that account. If you edit logged out or with a different account you will be blocked indefinitely", so I have extended GOOD FAITH by not trying to permanently block the editor concerned for orchestrating IP address edits. There is an associated ongoing Conflict of Interest sequence.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:11, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Fancy pointing me to said SPI? <b style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;">Worm</b>TT(<b style="color:#060;">talk</b>) 13:37, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not advisable here, I have drafted a full messsage for you, just finishing the typos. You can reduce the visibility at your page if that's appropriate.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

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Davide Garside at BSA
Hi, I first read about Garside research work on Wankels was in early 1971, when BSA was still BSA. I think BSA deserves some credit, before everyone thinks the bike was a Norton idea! Arrivisto (talk) 13:01, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but not in the last para where the prose asserts BSA's 85 horsepower! The journals I have assert a 1969 start. There was another employee named 'Garside', I surmise brother or father as it's unusual, can't remember where, maybe to do with Slippery Sam, where there were also two well-known development engineers named Jakeman (one engine, one chassis/fairings). I'll add a bit more when I've read thoroughly (including the write up on the DKW Herciules W2000!). BTW, the Norton bikes (2 only) are stated to have been still in prototype form during 1975, even though a mock-up, plinthed display engine-only appeared at the Cologne Show in 1974, and from what I see the frame and other running gear on the press bike is a cannibalised late-Trident - unlike the G&G Roto-Gannet 300 which had a Royal Enfield basis! Following the demise of RE, they became Norton dealers...irony of ironies. The shops are still there in London, a Lettings Agency and Caterers I think when I looked earlier in the year.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:31, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that only Doug Hele was involved with Slippery Sam; David Garside had no times for reciprocating pistons by then! Arrivisto (talk) 16:35, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll make a list! Think there were 12 at Triumph. * BSA: Bert Perrigo, Peter Perrigo, David Garside, Chris Vincent, Brian Martin, Bert Hopwood. * Triumph: Doug Hele, Ron Barrett, Arthur Jakeman, Bill Jakeman, Les Williams, Fred Swift, Norman Hyde, Brian Jones (Meriden Co-operative) * Norton: Peter Williams, Dave Rawlins Starting from memory, jump in with any others.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:18, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected! One thing I do remember about Slippery Sam was the "They forgot.." advert, after the bike won yet another TT!  I had it pinned up in my workshop  about 35 years ago! Arrivisto (talk) 17:52, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Slippery images here and here. DKW W2000 here - note W2000 not W-2000.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:36, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Stuart Slack
Hi. I've just removed the PROD template that you added to Stuart Slack. A moment's research found a wealth of sources about him. The article is now rewritten to take these into account. Relentlessly (talk) 08:47, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

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Honda CBF125 and Honda CB125F
Hi, I wanted to quickly pick your brains about the above 2 articles. To my mind this is the same bike with updates for 2015, production transferred from India to China and the 'F' moved to after the '125'. When I stumbled on the 125F page I started to fettle it up but then realised it had been started earlier this year and it was immediately re-directed to the CBF125 page. The creator of the article undid this or otherwise overrode it somehow and continued to edit/develop the article. It is entirely unref'd but reviews are quite easily found, for example here and here. Also, the image is tagged as own work but looking at the file on commons it was taken in March 2014 (6 months before the bike was announced) so that leads to all sorts of use questions. It is also quite similar to one in the Bennets review. The articles should be merged in my opinion, but wanted to seek your views before I did anything... (& I wasn't keen to raise on the project page!). Thanks. Regards, Eagleash (talk) 15:51, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've just had a very quick look, but I understand your concerns - the image entitled 125 seems to be a 250, copyvio right-clicked official promotional image maybe from here or here (tineye search here). The other image uploaded by the same editor (MK Dons Stadium) is doubtless obtained similarly. We are charged with Assuming Good Faith, so it may be that s/he thinks that copying it in this way meets the requirements in that it was partly 'created'. I'll have a look at the articles later tonight. rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)


 * OK,, I agree with your rationale, and with the comment of the early Redirect(or) that it does not merit a different article as a simlar variant, so would be a suitable candidate for a merge. Both the CBF125 and CB125F are shown in the current Honda UK website 125 Range, so maybe the comment about one replacing the other is not accurate? Can't understand why a watercooled monoshock 250 image was confused with a 125 air cooled twinshock, though, especially as the infobox denotes both twin shock and aircooled, so it's a good thing you noticed. Most of the Honda CB125F article prose is not allowed anyway, involving No Prices and Editorial/Opinion. Good catch.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:36, 13 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Yikes! It's worse than I thought. I knew there was something else about that image! Couldn't see for looking!! I'll put the merge tags on tomorrow. Won't give it that long for objections either... (7 days max). (& poss move after merge to (say) F125/125F). Need to sort out the commons image too. I have no idea how to do that... Plough in and see what happens I suppose. Thanks for help. Regards, Eagleash (talk) 22:54, 13 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Bit of a hornets' nest stirred up there I think... Eagleash (talk) 10:04, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've has a sleep on it and will catch up later - I made connections a week ago with an editor who is active in image files if advice is needed. I'm grateful, though, as it brought to my attention that an image of Bruce Anstey I'd used in two articles was deleted 5th Oct, and I'd forgotten to follow it through, something to do with inadequate licensing, but when it's gone, it's gone...! I've tracked it now, looks like the OTRS ticket (email giving image owner's permission for someone else to deposit on Wikimedia) was applied to several others but not this one, so I've requested restoration. As always, disproportionate down-time.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 10:55, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I've sorted the image prob. thanks...deleted from commons via copyvio at 'village pump'. His other images have also now been tagged. He deleted the merge tag and unref'd tag and started a new talk page with the wrong title (left out the space after 'Honda'. I've left standard (adapted) welcome message on his talk page and tidied up a bit. Happy editing. Eagleash (talk) 11:02, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks..I saw the mirror article in search results when I found the MCN & Bennets reviews. Only glanced at it briefly as it's The Mirror and therefore generally thought of as non-RS. However it seems quite clear that it is an update..not a new bike/model/design. Not too sure if it could be used though, but thanks anyway... appreciate it. Regards, Eagleash (talk) 12:20, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep,, that's why I thought it would be of interest - based on mostly factory specs and publicity blurb. There is an editor who is of the opinion that not every ref has to be a Premier source, which I would agree with up to a point, if there are others. Bennetts and Carole Nash I would consider to be in a semi-RS category. BFN.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:32, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Well the time I suggested has expired but I haven't done anything about it. Might give it a bit longer as not many people have commented to date. In the meantime I noticed this 'cat' Category:Two-stroke motorcycles created today; I expect you have too, as several things popped into my watch-list. Seems to me such a basic cat., that if it were necessary, it would have been created back when Babbage invented the difference engine...however...who knows. I expect some other people will have noticed it too so wait & see. The editor concerned also changed some "is a" motorcycle in the intro to "was a". A good while back I raised that very point via the teahouse and was assured that "is" is correct as there's no guarantee some example doe not exist somewhere, (as I suggested as part of my question). Happy editing. Eagleash (talk) 17:16, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey,, no problem with time frame on the merge...I'm still sitting on things from 2.5 years ago which I really ought to conclude (for the Americans, ought=should, not nought or zero). As they say in the Isle of Man 'Traa-dy-Liooar' = Time Enough. I don't understand cats, and dont want to even try; IMO a lot are over-categorised, but it must be important to the individuals concerned, as is hyphenisation - some add them, others take them out, others run scripts - strings of code - to find common mis-spellings, others are obsessed with Americanisation, making things more global and less English. My pet-hate is the American slang term 'gas' which conflicts with gaseous-substance and I think should be replaced with a neutral 'fuel'. "Any substance which is neither a solid or a liquid is bound to be in the form of gas" (Motor vehicles in a nutshell, 1942). I have no objection to the full term gasoline. I'm sure the Wiki-archy have pontificated and decreed something or other. Regarding the phrase 'was a motorcycle', it depends on how the lead is formed; co-incidentally, I have arranged for some Flickr images to be re-licensed from a very obliging gent, and so I look at the articles firstly in case they would be swamped, and I almost changed it, but waited as I need to expand the prose. It states "The Norton F1 is a road-going sports motorcycle that Norton based on its RCW588 racing motorcycle", whereas IMO it should read as 'The Norton F1 was a road-going sports motorcycle produced only during 1990-1991, based on the RCW588 racing motorcycle' (except "motorcycle" should not be used twicely). The Teahouse is technically correct, I guess, in that some may remain in existence, but with that format there's no confusion hence any argument is avoided.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:03, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Well I've learnt a lot about cats recently after it was discovered that a whole load of Lotus (car) articles had ended up in the wrong ones. This ended up with a silly disc. on Andy Dingley's talk-page. The whole sub-cat thingy can lead to all sorts of anachronistic looking categorisation. (With an S!) I dislike Americanisms and the way they muddle bring & take, and do and have etc. & "can I get a beer" (Don't know but I could bring you one if you ask). With Americans 'please' seems unlikely to happen! Over on Wikidata (where I have been quite active recently) labels (titles of items) are written in English and then there's the option of "British English". Um hello!

Is / was. I think it would be better if it were to say The Kawazukimahada 10000000 is a m/cycle which was produced (then years). I have a Honda 50 which is about a million years old but it still is, even though it's not been used for a while. But having said that I'm happy (& kind of prefer) 'Is' as it stands, even though it also appears anachronistic at first sight. Eagleash (talk) 22:44, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

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Honda CBX550F
Hello, yes as I recall the manual specifically used the term ventilated inboard discs, but I no longer have the book. I may be able to lay my hands on a copy in a few days, & if so can let you know exactly what it says. Eagleash (talk) 14:13, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks, I've pondered upon it - something was bugging me at the back of my mind that I was unsure if there were any more-recent applications. Came to me after about 30 hours that I had seen images like this with a massive wheel hub-centre File:Honda goldwing 1500.JPG but paid little attention, really, look like covers over 'conventional' engineering. I found a couple of images on Flickr and  showing the original period Honda brochure with a bit of brand-wording as inboard ventilated disc and concealed inboard, so it's OK to go with that, but ought to be differentiated in the articles as just that - a period, buzz-worded engineering gimmick (with many subsequent bad reports!) that was discontinued. Would need a reliable source to incorporate that into the articles, though, which may be difficult, and we cannot cite to Flickr as it's a copyvio situation.From the stuff in the house I can see the front (single disc) was used on Honda VT500 (drum/shaft drive rear), and Honda VF400F had single ventilated discs front and back (250 maybe similar), all about the same era. Still unsure as yet from online pics whether they were a solid disc, or two discs with a small space in between for additional surface area, as shewn in the brochure illustratiion (made by Nissin - saw it on an ebay sale pic). My 1982 MCN states single cast iron disc front for the CBX550 (with poor images), but I know early-releases were made available for journalist feedback, so could have been specified with a single front for that bike. One google image has a transmission brake annotated as "inboard"! . rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:48, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Just scrolling up to your message showing "Kawazukimahada" made me remember the words we used in the sixties - Yahaha and Yamakazi - or, as one of my female ex-colleagues from the 1980s used to say about her Honda Melody - Ichifanni...--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:57, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes the gold wing just looks like a normal disc with a cover. As I recall the CBX was not the same as that but without the manual I cannot be sure. I borrowed the manual purely on the spur of the moment, thinking it might be an article I could add some refs or detail to; only to subsequently find there wasn't a page. Therefore I created one. It's not a bike a I know anything about really, so 99% of the article all came from the manual. I do recall reading somewhere that it was an innovation that wasn't particularly successful in the long term. Eagleash (talk) 14:15, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Finally got hold of the CBX 550F book. The page I cited, specifically says "The chassis incorporates a number of recent technical innovations, the most striking being the inboard ventilated disc brakes. A drum enclosure protects the ventilated discs....blah... etc. Eagleash (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

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Barry Sheene
Hi there! Thx for your comments after deleting my amendments to the Barry Sheene topic. I have amended it again, with reference this time, and I hope you'll find it convenient this time. Best J — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.186.10.178 (talk) 11:15, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Florian Camathias
Hi. I still haven't forgotten your request for the Nations Grand Prix. Unfortunately, I've had a busy year when I retired and moved house. I will try to find the info. As far as Florian Camathias, I believe I have a magazine article on him. If you start an article, I will try to add whatever information i can get from the magazine article.Orsoni (talk) 16:58, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I have started a Florian Camathias article as a stub. I will try to add upon it.Orsoni (talk) 19:23, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I started to look online and there is some useful stuff there.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:42, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Italian motorcycle Grand Prix
I have found mention of the Italian Grand Prix as the Nations Grand Prix until 1990 in the Motocourse; 50 Years of Moto Grand Prix book; ISBN 874557-83-7. I have also found it referenced as Nations Grand Prix in the book Continental Circus; ISBN 978 90 818639 5 7. I hope this helps.Orsoni (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for remembering, . I messaged U|Readro, who uploaded some images a few months back here which you will find interesting (all in Italian language).--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 19:06, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

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 * ✅--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:12, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Removal of "Season still in progress" footnotes
Hi Rocknrollmancer. Please don't remove (or comment out) "Season still in progress" footnotes as you did here, without completing the season results in the table. Your edit makes it look as though Rutter stopped competing mid-season and that 15th/38 was his final championship standing/points total, neither of which is correct. If you don't feel like completing the season results, just leave the footnote in place, to indicate that the table contains incomplete results. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 07:49, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * . I will be more careful in future. I only have some on my watchlist, and usually it takes many minutes to some hours to achieve an outcome of little consequence, and I often can't commit to it spontaneously. By doing it this way, I get it on my recent contributions so I can wizz down the list to come back, but I appreciate it's bad form in this instance. I have wanted to do more on Rutter since I added the update tag back in October for his other results this (last) season, that is on the roads, as I feel he is at the end of his 'regular' career, but that's OR and opinion from me, but when I came back to it (checking his address at Bridgnorth last night, for example) I then had a major problem with a newbie introducing OR, Promotion, Twitter and Facebook BS fansites and POV-pushing into Erik Buell Racing, and another problem with Norton Isolastic frame, which in turn means other input into other Norton articles, when I should have been adding an image of Gary Hocking, but I hope to get round to them all, eventually. rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:36, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

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You don't own Erik Buell Racing
Please do not assume ownership of articles as you did at Erik Buell Racing. If you aren't willing to allow your contributions to be edited extensively or be redistributed by others, please do not submit them. Thank you. 32.218.46.100 (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I've already had this weeks ago - being dragged into an article when I only put the logo on. I know you are switching IP addresses, and your instant monitoring suggests you have a named account with a watchlist. All the content is encyclopedic and verified. I even deliberated over naming the spokesperson, but decided it was of interest. I spent an hour on this but you know better? I didn't write the 'receivership' aspect - trawl through the history and you'll see this. There are many - 600 or 800 creditors, can't find the number, so the payout will be to many, not just three. I do not deliberately introduce dis-information, but the owners have walked away from 20million however it is termed under statute. Failure is a separate section, as the :I've already had this weeks ago - being dragged into an article when I only put the logo on. I know you are switching IP addresses, and your instant monitoring suggests you have a named account with a watchlist. All the content is encyclopedic and verified. I even deliberated over naming the spokesperson, but decided it was of interest. I spent an hour on this but you know better? I didn't write the 'receivership' aspect - trawl through the history and you'll see this. There are many - 600 or 800 creditors, can't find the number, so the payout will be to many, not just three. I do not deliberately introduce dis-information, but the owners have walked away from 20million however it is termed under statute. Failure is a separate section, as the business was finished in April 2015. What you are doing is POV pushing and over-templating a subsesction is simply ludicrous. I am only helping out when no-one else wanted to take this on--Rocknrollmancer (talk)business was finished in April 2015. What you are doing is POV pushing and over-templating is simply ludicrous. I am only helping out when no-one else wanted to take this on--Rocknrollmancer (talk)

Edit warring at Erik Buell Racing
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Erik Buell Racing. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. 32.218.46.100 (talk) 20:29, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
 * I've already had this weeks ago - being dragged into an article when I only put the logo on. I know you are switching IP addresses, and your instant monitoring suggests you have a named account with a watchlist. All the content is encyclopedic and verified. I even deliberated over naming the spokesperson, but decided it was of interest. I spent an hour on this but you know better? I didn't write the 'receivership' aspect - trawl through the history and you'll see this. There are many - 600 or 800 creditors, can't find the number, so the payout will be to many, not just three. I do not deliberately introduce dis-information, but the owners have walked away from 20million however it is termed under statute. Failure is a separate section, as the manufacturing business was finished in April 2015. What you are doing is POV pushing and over-templating a subsection is simply ludicrous. I am only helping out when no-one else wanted to take this on.--Rocknrollmancer (talk)

January 2016 Point Of View Pushing and Deletion on Erik Buell Racing
I've already had this weeks ago - being dragged into an article when I only put the logo on
 * What??? No one dragged you into the article. You initiated today's edits entirely on your own.

I know you are switching IP addresses
 * Talk to my ISP about it; they're the ones who assigned me a dynamic IP. (Don't know what that is? Look it up.)

your instant monitoring suggests you have a named account with a watchlist
 * There are other ways to monitor articles besides watchlists. Need some help in figuring out how?

but decided it was of interest
 * Not of interest to anyone but a newspaper reader. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia; such detail is not warranted.

I didn't write the 'receivership' aspect
 * I didn't say you did.

I do not deliberately introduce dis-information
 * I didn't say you "introduced" it; I said you "reintroduced it. "Re" is a prefix; it means "again". In this case, I removed the erroneous information; you added it again.

Failure is a separate section
 * That's your opinion. Most people would consider a company's failure part of its history.

Please stop ranting on my talk page. 32.218.46.100 (talk) 20:57, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Decembeard
Afraid it completely passed me by at the time. I was just concerned that saying "Movember is X, the concept has been extended into Decembeard" (and very prominently in the introduction to the article) made it sound as if the charity behind Movember were also behind Decembeard, which doesn't seem to be the case - the single Metro source attached didn't mention Movember in the article text. I've gone ahead and added it to the "Similar events" section as suggested. --McGeddon (talk) 13:46, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Mansfield Town FC
Good afternoon and thanks for your message,

As part of my role, I am required to keep the Mansfield Town FC and John Radford (businessman) pages up to date.

Therefore, I will be continuing to edit the pages.

Matthewjoule (talk) 14:16, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Norton Wankel air induction cooling.JPG
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 * A full Fair Use Rationale was included into the upload detail at the time spread into the most-appropriate sections . Is your objection that there is not a separate rationale included? Or are you comnenting that the rationale built-in to the upload sections is actually insufficient? Please take another look at the detail which already states all necessary information including the source quoted as a citation, as only an 'official', published work could contain an accurate schematic, irreplaceable by text (airflow paths) and cited data (temperature ranges). Use of this low-resolution diagram is therefore both encyclopedic and compliant. Thank you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:52, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * My objection is that it is replaceable by a diagram under a free license that contains the same information. Anyone can draw a diagram that accurately describes the same principle of operation and release it under a free license. If you disagree, please present your view on the image talk page because that's where the admin who makes the call the call will look. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:04, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I completely disagree, but thank you for your viewpoint.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 19:09, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

File:Norton Wankel air induction cooling.JPG listed for discussion
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Honda CBF125
Hi I've finally got around to the merger of the Honda CB125F to Honda CBF125...see section above...somewhere... Bit of a fiddly job! If you have the time perhaps you wouldn't mind looking over the 'finished' page for 'c*ck-ups'. Ta. Oh, should the page be moved to incorporate both models in the article name? Regards, Eagleash (talk) 19:34, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I've had another look at the CB article (actually wearing glasses this time) seems good. Unsure at this stage if the title should reflect both, as there is a redirect. I'll bear in mind the need for another image. If you're still in the mood, there are a couple of similar needing merging, nothing controversial, nothing urgent Triumph Legend 741cc and Triumph Legend 964cc. I don't have anything in the house on these. Thanks and rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:14, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Ta for your input there. I have proposed the merger and tagged the 2 Triumphs. No doubt Mr. B or someone will just do it...if they don't object that is. :P Eagleash (talk) 00:54, 4 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I've merged the 2 Triumphs now, at Triumph Legend 964cc. Please put on glasses and look for glaring howlers! Should the page be moved (bearing in mind the later 'Legend' model)?. Also there was a discrepancy in the production years 1975-? or 1984-92 or was that 741cc intro'd 1975 and the bigger capacity in 1984? Regards, Eagleash (talk) 20:09, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Much thanks. I've had a quick look and a longer Google - I have a couple of Slippery Sam articles in the house and will dig them out (as I need to do some more on this also). The online source material is vague and repetitive (chicken and egg). Seems the bikes were only made from 198? but were all based on complete earlier donor bikes factory-produced up to 1975/6, hence registered as the original year and therefore referred to as 1975 when it could have been 're-made' in 1990. Only the Les Williams parts-business operated from the factory collapse circa 1975 with complete machines produced gradually throughout the 80s decade. One of my pet hates/pet research projects is Triton which I don't believe existed as a marque until 1964, although undoubtedly some Triumph-Norton specials were produced by various builders, so need genuine, historical evidence for usage of "Triton" (earliest in the house = June 1964). Often they are captioned - as with this example from the WP page - 1959 Triton T100 when the description clearly states "built from bits in 2003". Note the number plate is suspiciously not visible in all shots. Another pet-hate, I prefer $3/4$ rear shots of the throttle-side. rgds, --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:01, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Gary Carswell
Back in 2015 you PRODded this, and it was deleted. Undeletion has now been requested at WP:REFUND, so per WP:DEL I have restored it, and now notify you in case you wish to consider AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 15:34, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

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Motorcycle Sport
Hello, Yes I well remember this mag, I have at least 2 bound volumes lurking somewhere in not unpacked boxes from house moves! It was indeed a companion to Motor Sport (magazine) and my copies are from the early 80s. (When it was still only 50p!) I would like to find them as I think it's a good RS. LJKS is of course Leonard Setright who wrote for many publications both 2- and 4-wheel. Tee is Wesley Tee who owned MS for many years, reminded me of the old sea-captain I worked for in the late 60s (as described by Gordon Cruickshank in an MS podcast). Not sure what 'my' volume No. refers to...? I don't recognise the name Cyril Ayton I'm afraid. Did I mention I was working for MS this time last year helping CE their archives...appallingly transcribed by a firm that then went out of business. Is there a wiki article for Motorcycle sport...I looked a while ago I seem to recall. None of this helps. Eagleash (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh that discussion, with Lukas (Zwerg). Completely forgotten about that. Yes 100% sure that MS vols were 12 months in size. Can't see why Cycle would be any different. Just checked the GC podcast, Wesley J. Tee was the proprietor in question. Don't know who Wardley is/was. Eagleash (talk) 00:06, 6 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Cyril Ayton was the editor of 'Motorcycle Sport' from its inception until (at the earliest) well into the eighties. 109.145.108.76 (talk) 02:58, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the comment, but that doesn't establish a start-date.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 10:30, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have now established that the first edition of Motorcycle Sport was 7 February 1962 (stated in McS September 1964 edition, although no indication of the frequency during 1962). Cyril Ayton if accredited on at least three books - Vincent (at Google books), A-Z Guide to British motorcycles and Guide to Italian motorcycles (at Google books).--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:18, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Deletion
You deleted this edit of mine. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 14:22, 18 April 2016 (UTC) That article is full of unsourced sentences and I'm just wondering why you removed mine but none of the others. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 14:22, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Firstly, it was unsourced and contained historical assertions presented as fact to the reader, being WP:OPINION (or original research) - that is, your own unsupported conclusion made in 2016: "however even this was not enough to save the company". It's not incumbemt on other editors to pick-through the original research/opinion to confirm that they were imported to US, although I did view the wikilinked article. That's two reasons to delete - you should have references ready to support changes, not look for them afterwards. This is blanket, fundamental, standard practice, applicable to all editors. Nothing in the 1995 citation retro-actively added supports your WP:OR statement italicsed above, which I surmise is why you did not re-add it. Regarding any other unsupported statements, I have not had this on my watchlist for long and I don't usually retro-actively analyse article progression, so only your inappropriate change concerned me. If an editor does not pick it up when first noticed, then it can just spiral.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:30, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, since the company went out of business it didn't seem like a stretch to say that they did so in spite of their overseas market. That doesn't seem controversial to me. Anyway, happy editing. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 14:55, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Wildcard rides
Hi Rocknrollmancer, You edited 2 pages I added to, about Mick Grant and Troy Bayliss. Thank you for helping Wikipedia and me with this. I have read in a print magazine about Bayliss being the last wildcard (non-permanant racer for that class / year) to win a premier class Grand Prix. I wondered who was the previous rider to claim such a win. I searched 30 years of MotoGP results to find the answer. I cannot find a reference to this feat anywhere on the web, hence my own research. I understand then that this information cannot be placed on Wikipedia as it does not appear anywhere else on the internet. Am I correct in this assumption? Thank you Noram-27 (talk) 05:29, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I had a quick Google as I didn't know of any such mention of the Mick Grant alleged feat. I still don't understand your rationale, and usage of the term "wildcard", although I accept that it has been used to describe Bayliss' win. It's worth noting here that the race organisers allow wildcard entries, not the factory which gift them, by way of providing a bike to which the rider would not otherwise have access, as written about Bayliss. Kyle Ryde's 2015 wildcard entry, where he raced his British Supersport machine at Donington in World Supersport to achieve 3rd place, cost nearly £2,000 entry fee, which 'they', the team, had to find, some of it by way of crowdfunding. To me, a wildcard is more-likely to be when an up-and-coming rider is added to the entry list, as a type of publicity-spinner, and perhaps when stepping-up a notch, as epitomised by this instance. I don't see that Mick Grant was in any way a wildcard, having entered TT races with podium finishes and been a Norton and Triumph works-supported rider well before 1975. Works-supported means not being tied to any one factory, and where there is no suitable machine in a different engine capacity the rider could use an alternative make. I would prefer to use the term 'guest-rider' (or replacement rider), particularly where the rider was/is an established star. To address your query, Wikipedia is based upon published reports by accredited writers for the content and subsequent changes, as these are supposed to be more-reliable and better-researched; traditionally these were by old-school publishing houses, where cub-reporters undertook a type of apprenticeship, guided by, and learning their trade from, older writers. With the internet things are substantially different, but they in turn rely on press-releases (avoid forums, social media, self-published websites (including 'wordpress'), motorcycle clubs, fansites, fanzines. Any one person's own thoughts, deliberations and/or findings are not admissable, being regarded as Original Research. If you have a genuine, hard-copy book, magazine or newspaper-format description that describes Mick Grant's 1975 win as a 'wildcard', then that would be sufficient for Wikipedia, but it should be cited properly (fully, with all details including page number and writer's name if possible) and preferably with the passage quoted verbatim. It doesn't have to be available on the interweb. It's also very difficult to reconcile the 'wildcard' aspect as you have chosen a TT race which none of the regular, established GP entrants were participating in, due to the dangers of the long road course and subsequent boycott, which led to the IoM event being abandoned in favour of the mainland (Silverstone) circuit(s) from 1977. You also seem to have adopted the current-phrase "premier class", when this was inapplicable in 1975 - there were simply different engine capacities, with the smaller sizes attracting specialist riders who were perhaps smaller in stature. I remember an ex-colleague in the late 1980s with no knowledge of motorcycles referring to the 'premier class' (500cc) as "Formula One". Hope that helps - it's a can of worms for such a small point.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:09, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thinking about this further, the exact "wildcard" usage was added by a current Wikipedia editor - admitted as an Australian, as I suspected, adding unsourced prose in 2007 in this change. If the magazine you saw was after this 23 September 2007 date, then the magazine content could have been sourced from Wikipedia itself. This is something else to be very conscious of. You should also ensure that you only quote from magazines which you possess, not that you once owned, from memory. I'll work on it further as it's bugging me, not that I'm Australian or interested in Bayliss.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:49, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've removed the word "wildcard", as there is no Google-evidence to support this assertion, replacing it with 'one-off'.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:24, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

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past stuff
Hi Rocknrollmancer -- I'm glad you have stayed with Wikipedia and I would be quite dismayed if you left. I v. much value your contributions in the Isle of Man TT course area. At the ongoing AFD Articles for deletion, in this diff, I suggest you and me both don't mention the past sockpuppeting where it is not extremely relevant. I hope you don't mind. It really has been dealt with, and is not the issue now (though I fear it could become an issue again if we don't watch for it). My own main, salient experience in Wikipedia was being harassed/bullied for years and years on what I perceived as unfair grounds, and I identify a tad with the perceived unfairness of the tactic of past stuff being used as a stick, forever. I'd drop that for now, and hope you will, as I don't want you to get dragged down with that.

About the disclosure (or lack thereof) of COI by the editor, I am not as sure. I am not sure it needs to be mentioned in an individual AFD, say, but it certainly remains relevant for a comprehensive review (at wp:AN or wp:ANI ?) about the pattern of the editor's behavior if there are continuing disruptions worth elevating as a group. If that editor is reading this, I hope they will consider just following wp:COI guidelines and making their own COI disclosures, properly, at their user page / talk page and at individual discussions in the relevant topic area (such as at the AFD they opened). Their failure to make COI disclosures properly, however, does not justify toying around with outing, which seems a somewhat worse sin. However I must grant I am not sure on how, in general, one is to handle a lack of COI disclosure when knowledge of it intersects with knowledge of the identity of the editor. There is wp:COI but also wp:COI which calls for blocking. Maybe the right way to go is to plan to open an arbitration process, in which evidence can be handled in the arbitrators' private email list, and which has the power to impose blocks and bans.

Do we have enough for that? The list includes: the opening of the current AFD, the repeated restorations of Windy Corner, Isle of Man article contrary to RFC decision, the hypocritical personal attacks within the current AFD. I would maybe wait for a few more items, then open a request for arbitration. Arbitration sucks for all concerned, though. -- do ncr  am  23:17, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I am not the bad guy here - it has been dealt with, and badly, by buck-passing admins. I have monitored COIN and AN/I, where there is a current/recent discussion with admins themselves uncertain and a tad afraid of the technical definitions of outing - the main crux is if an individual self-identifies voluntarily, then this can be used as a key search criterion off-Wiki. FYI, the editor !voting to 'keep' is one of the main volunteers at COIN, and knows of my investigation as I mentioned it in an AN/I (Jan/Feb). You should see this if you haven't noticed it, for censorship of WP. I don't have any pressing WP agenda to complete, just driftin' through but still doing research for other off-Wiki projects, as they inevitably cross-over.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:05, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, glad to hear you've been getting educated-- more than me it seems--like at COIN which i couldn't even find beforee. I will try to monitor it some. cheers, --02:02, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Editors Rocknrollmancer and doncram
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. agljones(talk)14:48, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

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What's wrong with YouTube??
Not all YouTube is bad to refer. In fact a lot of car magazines upload videos to YouTube. Look at such magazines as Best Motoring or Supercar Driver. They always use YouTube for proof of their cars' performance numbers. 2607:FB90:2703:26FB:0:46:E099:D001 (talk) 15:38, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Youtube is unregulated - it's not a publisher of any sort. Generally crowd-sourced providers should be avoided, particularly where there is a possibility of dispute, as with performance claims for an historic 1990s car. It can be used with care as an external link, to give more info to an article, but only for entertainment value. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:37, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Is Flickr copyright violation too?
There is one collector / car nerd from Germany who archives magazine scans. The collector's username is DeDe 2607:FB90:277C:44B6:0:2B:E13D:8301 (talk) 02:49, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks for your thought and understanding. I don't, however, understand why you would want to corrupt this Lotus article with data relating to other makes of vehicles - it is not encyclopedic.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:49, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Thundersprint Logo.gif
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Honda VTR1000F
Hi, I have recently made some efforts to improve the Honda VTR1000F page, but most of my edits were swiftly reverted by editor 72bikers. I feel the VTR page needs to progress, but, having made some contributions, I would prefer other biker Wikipedians to have their input. If you have a moment, why not have a look at the page and see what you think? (I’m sending this message to: Dennis Bratland, Biker Biker, Brianhe and Rocknrollmancer). Cheers, Arrivisto
 * Yes, I've been watching it even though I have not been logging-in as it's too distracting when I seen the watchlist (but I have loads to do on the IoM side, so needs must to log-in....eventualleeeee). 72bikers did the same to me, immediate reversion within two hours on Kawasaki H2R, and I see when others have tried to make changes, 72bikers continues to own the proceedings. I'll try some changes again to bring it to the attention of a wider audience. I don't have any knowledge of the Honda SP VTR other than Colin Edwards rode one, so I can't comment on the validity of the edit-changes. Looking at the eloquent, comprehensive, carefully-constructed talk page submissions from 72bikers compared to the grammtically-poor, badly-punctuated and disjointed prose at H2R suggests to me that more than one person is using the account??? Regarding Dennis Bratland, he is under an interaction-ban involving 72bikers (initially I was sympathetic towards 72bikers, but events have proved otherwise), amongst others, so I am unsure whether he could even comment.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:31, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * As before, mucho interference from 72bikers within hours at H2R.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:28, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

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Comments on editor
I have removed your long complaint from Talk:Isle of Man TT; it is now at User_talk:Agljones, a more appropriate place; please peruse my response there. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 15:50, 17 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, the same criticism pretty much applies to Rocknrollmancer's tagging of a few other articles and posting at their talk pages, Talk:Sidecar TT, Talk:2nd Milestone, Talk:Gob-ny-Geay (where I commented also).  A similar complaint made at Talk:List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course is somewhat more appropriate at least as that is a central location where centralized discussion of the separate named corners articles can take place.  In the Sidecar TT article, though I expect poor aspects of its condition are directly and indirectly the result of Agljones, in fact Agljones has not edited that article since 2014.
 * (I noticed Drmies' removal of that at the Talk page for Isle of Man TT. And I was pinged by User:Drmies in what they posted at Agljones' talk page.)
 * For better or worst, in terms of their own interests, Agljones has previously requested that I not post at their Talk page and I think also that Rocknrollmancer not post there. I have actually made friendly overtures there, but they did not have perspective to receive them as friendly.  I might possibly post there sometime again, despite their request, or contact them by email (I also corresponded with them once in the past), but don't have anything urgent to say to them now.


 * To User:Drmies, frustration on Rocknrollmancer's part is understandable from long oppressive history of Agljones' editing on the Isle of Man TT-related articles, including grossly incompetent removals of photos and other contributions by Rocknrollmancer, with insulting/obnoxious comments in edit summaries and Talk pages. Rocknrollmancer, I think you know I appreciate that.  In my view, Rocknrollmancer has in the past and perhaps again now taken on a fatalistic-like mode of saying it like it is, allowing for chips to fall where they may, knowing that there are policies against personally-oriented comments but having few/no options allowing for action with integrity.  In my view this is partly to be admired, and I identify with it as I also had to deal with oppressive, many-years-long harassment by other editors (won't go into it, but I think Drmies has seen some of it directly perhaps, and has seen ripples from it).  How Wikipedia intersects with persistent long-term abuse is poor, and there are contradictory policies and guidelines which rule against everything.  (As a matter of fact I think almost everything discussed at wp:ANI and other dispute resolution venues and at user Talk pages and elsewhere about editors' behavior is actually technically against various explicit Wikipedia policies, but unwritten practice accepts the contradictions and allows some editors to get away with what others would be punished for).
 * It is a shame in some ways that Agljones got away with a lot, in how the sockpuppetting incident established some of their bad deeds but dealt just a mild consequence for them, just when steam was building to block them permanently or something else, but that was how it went, and it is did resolve things for a while.
 * However pushing now with continued explicit discussion of Agljones actions, outside the context of any block or ban proposal or other specific dispute resolution goal, seems not productive and seems dangerous to me.
 * So what to do? I don't see any very good resolution, but I would call the following "pretty good":
 * continue on discussion (probably best at the list-article) of the more marginal named corners articles and see to their removal by AFD process, with result of deletion or redirect to the list-article.
 * Rocknrollmancer, to the extent willing, might continue to severely edit the articles
 * When Agljones comments tediously at Talk pages or opens proceedings at AFD, ANI, copyright problems, or elsewhere, we can respond in those relatively economically. It costs Agljones a lot of time in those, and they have not been successful; it's best to be brief in response at this point.  Rocknrollmancer's invitations/pinging of various other editors in the still-open copyright problems item seems to have brought that to a near-conclusion, although it was okay as an impasse that I think would have faded away anyhow.  There have not in fact been any seriously bad consequences from any of those, IMO.
 * It would be really good to involve some not-previously-involved editors in the related articles, e.g. by requesting Peer Review of selected articles and/or nominating some for Good article status. Not my cup of tea right now to do, but offhand I think that would be really good if Rocknrollmancer would.
 * Perhaps Agljones will move on to other topic areas in Wikipedia or lose interest. There have been editors including me who would try to work with them, but I am not optimistic for their future editing.
 * Opening a request for arbitration proceeding is a possibility. Arbitration was an awful experience for me and is costly and awful generally, but a brief arbitration case or two that I have seen in the last year seemed more productive than I would have expected, where there was not too much evidence and things had not gone on forever.  Perhaps arbitration could be useful and would provide decent review and resolution.  Rocknrollmancer, if you wanted to proceed that way, I would try to make it work.
 * I don't know, what else?
 * -- do ncr  am  17:01, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Dear, it's getting to be lunch time so I can't read all the words and all the sentences, but sure. I think that talk page discussion should focus on content, and yes, in an economical fashion. If there is evidence of COI editing it should be handled appropriately, with all deference paid to WP:OUTING. Rocknrollmancer could have posted at WP:COIN, for instance. I don't think Agljones will move on from this hobby horse and that's fine, as long as it's not too disruptive, haha. If it is, dispute resolution, or ANI. At the very least accusations should be accompanied by evidence. Thanks Doncram, Drmies (talk) 17:23, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Arbitration is the last resort. The first is talk page discussion, but there's a whole bunch of steps in between. You present this now, and from what I've seen it will be turned down. Drmies (talk) 17:37, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Article Sidecar TT and Talk:page Sidecar TT
Constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, but a recent edit that you made has been reverted or removed because it was a misuse of a warning or blocking template. Please use the user warnings sandbox for any tests you may want to do, or take a look at our introduction page to learn more about contributing to the encyclopedia. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. agljones(talk)10:43, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

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You don't own Cafe racer
Please do not assume ownership of articles as you did at Cafe racer. If you aren't willing to allow your contributions to be edited extensively or be redistributed by others, please do not submit them. ''' If you aren't willing to allow your contributions to be edited extensively or be redistributed by others, please do not submit them. Please try to be collegial and not confrontational, Please refrain from making false statement about other in a attempt to bullying them. Your contribution with this "an American website wrote in 2017" and your edit summary of "Make it clear this is a 40 year old woman writing at a 2017 American website, WP:verifiability not truth it is not a 1960 hard published reliable source " it is clear you are trying to own the page. With no reliable source to back up your WP:OR opinion, in a attempt to belittle the information from a published author in a reliable source, print and online publication, Motorcycle Classic that specializes in this era of motorcycling.''' --72bikers (talk) 04:18, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * RETALIATORY TEMPLATING from a POV-pushing, WP:OWNing, WP:HARASSing relative newbie with a block and IBAN just a few months after starting, now following me around Wikipedia.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:13, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Please stop your personal attacks as to WP:PA rule, they are unfounded and uncalled for, thank you.72bikers (talk) 22:34, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Edit warring at Cafe racer
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard as I have already suggested WP:RSN or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.--72bikers (talk) 04:18, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
 * RETALIATORY TEMPLATING from a POV-pushing, WP:OWNing, WP:HARASSing relative newbie with a block and IBAN just a few months after starting.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:12, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Please stop your personal attacks as to WP:PA rule, they are unfounded and uncalled for, thank you.72bikers (talk) 22:34, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

WIKIHOUNDING - FOLLOWING ME AROUND WIKIPEDIA
Please stop your disruptive behaviour. It appears you are purposefully harassing another editor. Wikipedia aims to provide a safe environment for its collaborators, and harassing other users, as you did on Cafe racer, potentially compromises that safe environment. If you continue behaving like this, you may be blocked from editing. You have now immediately followed me around Wikipedia showing violations of WP:OWN, WP:HARASS. Your continuous harassment on my talk page with your false claims and restoring them after I have deleted them is all the proof of your inappropriate behavior. As all I did was notice a inappropriate change to a article on my watchlist. That you made with no reliable source to back up your claims, hence that would make it WP:OR opinion. Please stay off my talk page with your harassing and bullying behavior, any issues may be resolved on a article talk page, thank you. Your account of every interaction with me, with me just removing your unsupported opinions over the past year, would make it seem you have some continuous grudge against me.72bikers (talk) 22:34, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Same Problem diffrent day. And sure most of them are not wrting here. And most sad. Noone just say a single word. Not he trys to fix something with tath guy and others eaven support him --BIanca617 (talk) 06:23, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Bert schneider le mans 1964 cropped.JPG
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Orphaned non-free image File:Hallets of Canterbury.jpg
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Please note that I removed this image as it was not contributing anything of encyclopedic value pertaining to the article subject. It appears that you were using the image merely as a source to show that the business did not use an apostrophe in its name. This isn't a justifiable use for a fair use image, and the information should instead should be cited to an external reliable source. Pyrop e  14:01, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Over-zealous image volunteer, using a BOT to delete - I've encountered the type before now - we are supposed to be building the encyclopedia here, not deleting. I also have permission to use the logo from Marcus Hallet obtained after uploading under FUR (he delayed replying), but I know you (or someone like you) will officiously argue against it, so there's no point in forwarding to OTRS. Regarding "the information should instead should be cited to an external reliable source" - they simply didn't write that way, then or now; we can't have WP:RS for everything, otherwise everything would grind to a halt, wasting time - much like this. It is IMO germane to the article, and is not disputed or used deliberately wrongly, for instance WP:MASK, neither is it advertising, being an historic business, and does not expose WMF to any legal consequences. This is so trivial that no-one has ever complained, even after the prose was altered to read Hallet's and I changed it back again. Luckily, I can remember doing this, without wasting more time checking. I am involved in something else where even an admin on both WP and WM is unsure, instead relating it to IfD - so far has generated no reaction in 12 days.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:26, 7 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I haven't used a bot to do anything. If you have received a document suitable for OTRS then by all means go ahead and go through the proper channels. You also do not need a reliable source for "everything" just those things that are contentious or are likely to be (or have been) challenged. We are building a reliable and robust encyclopedia, yes, and in this aim we have some rules to consider. Note that our copyright directives here are definitely rules, not guidelines, and you do not have impunity to contradict them just because you think your judgement is adequate. Pyrop  e  14:33, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

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Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man
Finally got around to putting Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man in mainspace, seems to me like a nice start for it. Your attention, perhaps photos, would be very welcome! --Doncram (talk) 01:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * ThanQ for your message - I am not planning to contribute to WP due to the hostility of a small handful of editors towards me, the WP:OWNership exhibited, the determined reliance of keyword-searching for very recent references that post-date the WP content (mirror-content) and the overt Wikilawyering that is increasingly pervading WP. Described by one veteran editor a few years back as "toxic environment",  I see you are experiencing similar, including from the usual WP:COI x2 editor. I have no faith or confidence that the secret, sacrosanct inner sanctum of the Arbitration Committee would ever do the right thing when four admins, three then being ArbCom have knowingly protected and one has knowingly removed COI evidence, so feel I am wasting my efforts, particulary when they will not allow me a log-in to their portal. As you should know, none of this can be public due to the absolute right to refuse acknowledgement to real-life identity that is vehemently being exploited to continue with the single-purpose, COI editing. "As is their good right" I think from memory, quoted by the last of the four to blunder in to the sequence. By abstaining I am sending a message that no admin has any block-threat sanction against me. I applaud your resilience and diligence in continuing. I do feel obliged to make some changes, though, one such is ongoing since July 2016 when I first uploaded the historic, hard-copy evidence to Flickr that I wanted the misguided editors to have the option of seeing, but first I would have to battle to get an important image refunded where a non-English first speaking Commons admin has recently blanket-deleted all images from a particular uploader under the precautionary principle (that some, probably not all, were copyvio). I am very busy on closed-to-public motorcycle racing groups for the last three years, where generally but not wholly exclusively (!), I am greeted with respect and gratitude from my efforts, and I am still periodically monitoring the Isle of Man situations as they unfold. I've only returned here as I received an email alert that an attempt to hack my log in was made on May 3 (I still monitor the dedicated email address).  All the best, --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:05, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

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Apology
Hi,

Thanks for calling my attention to my mistake on the deletion tagging on File:Dan Kneen portrait.jpeg. I screwed up. I apologise for incorrectly tagging the file for deletion. Regards. -- Whpq (talk) 21:36, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

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Moriwaki
Sorry for the miscommunication on the Moriwaki article. I was attempting to match the naming protocol set by the Pops Yoshimura article rather than Yoshimura Engineering since, Mr. Moriwaki's career is the main focus of the article. Also, due to the firm essentially being a small, family run operation with his wife as the Chief Financial Officer, I thought that the article should focus on the individual rather than the company as in the Pops Yoshimura article. I appreciate all your efforts on motorcycle articles.Orsoni (talk) 19:24, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message. I am having computer hardware problems and so may not be around much, but as a last resort I can use a phone, although it is quite limiting, in part due to my inexperience with it. As I am now (and will be in the future) more off-Wiki than on, I only learned of this recently after seeing a message that the official logo I uploaded correctly in July 2015 had been  deleted 30 March 2018 due to the article being re-named. Certain wikilawyering editors have been targeting some of my small-sized, low-resolution image uploads often taken from long-defunct publications which were intended to enhance historic articles, by removing the file and allowing a bot to do their dirty work for them, instead of listing at WP:Files for deletion. One hostile, determined WP:COI x2 editor who has been warring against me for some years has stated at WP:ANI (words to the effect of) Rocknrollmancer has admitted uploading images in bad faith, whatever that is supposed to mean, trying to play to the gallery. I know this stuff already, it's intended for the benefit of others. I did take into consideration that Pops, being well-known in English-speaking US, was established as a biography on En-Wiki, and that a bio for Mamoru Moriwaki would be perhaps better on jp-wiki. When I googled Moriwaki the leading entries came up with the company name although Mamoru is in the text of others further down, being mostly passing-mentions. I thought it would be more appropriate that the lead entries and 'official' name should be the same as the common name used on Wikipedia, and of course the move would leave a redirect for anyone presumptively knowing and searching for the name Mamoru on-Wiki; that's my slant on it, although others may have different opinions .--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:07, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Dan Kneen portrait.jpeg
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Merger with Anti-lock braking system for motorcycles
Please see the recent merger on the Anti-lock braking system page. Some polishing still needed! Arrivisto (talk) 16:02, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Alastair Seeley
Alastair Seeley joined MV The 19 July 2018--Connor McCormick (talk) 07:45, 28 July 2018 (BST)
 * you need to find a press source to confirm any such changes. Patrollers checking for recent changes to articles will automatically assume it is vandalism without a reference. Guidance can be found at Cite your sources. Don't expect others to do it for you. In this case, Seeley is often not a high-runner, probably towards the end of his race career and somewhat obscure (but I cannot add that into mainspace without a journalist writing it first) and so there may not be much in the way of press coverage. This is a biography-type article and as such will come under special scrutiny. Thank you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:53, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Civility
Please do not make false accusations, "edit for User:72bikers - these dates are wrong on the unreliable webshite Carole Nash, a commercial insurance business, not a publisher, to highlight any WP:OWNership of this article". I was not the editor that added that reference to the article, please get your facts right. There is also a noticeboard to resolve these kind of issues. Making comment that facts are not correct but not showing any source to contradict them just makes your assumption OR. Please do not make personal attacks this is frowned upon on Wikipedia as UNCIVIL. -72bikers (talk) 20:46, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

The Dunstall Norton
You recently commented on the talk page of List of fastest production motorcycles by acceleration regarding the Dunstall. I've added some arguments against it being called a production bike and explained how through racing Homologation it got that limited designation. I'm interested in hearing what you think. There's not many of us in this discussion so finding consensus is like trying to stand on a 3 legged stool. Jackhammer111 (talk) 08:08, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

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king of the steets
Hello. I was looking over your long post on The Talk page fastest accelerating and reading the part where you switched the conversation to what was on the Kawasaki triples page and noticed the place where you mentioned that the Simone Museum (Simeone Museum, Gear Chic (cloning Simeone Museum) had the phrase King of the streets attached to a Kawasaki H2 but had mistakenly called it a 1969. I'm wondering how it is you didn't notice that in that table below which represents the actual motorcycle in the collection that was being referred to was a  72 Kawasaki H2.  I hope you understand that that museum source is an excellent source. And I would have thought you would have recognized they're all they did was make a typo. The bike in their collection that they referred to as the king of the streets is a 1972. You may have given me the credible source I need to put that back on the triples page. I don't know why you're so set against the idea. I think you know I have some credibility on the subject. And I would think that that combined with the preponderance of the evidence that I've shown would at least convince you personally that it was true. I'm going to try to contact the museum and see if I can get them to correct the text in that article. I think that single Source alone should be accepted as proof that the bike had that nickname. we're not talking about some official name that it was called from the factory. We're talking about a slang term. I've been in direct contact with Tony Nicosia and I'm going to ask him if he knows any resources calling it that and I'm going to ask me whether he or is Associates know how to access old NHRA records. I Welcome your thoughts on it I am trying to be objective. I'm not going to make a big deal about how appropriate it may have been to bring a discussion from the triples page to the fastest motorcycles page because you mentioned a lot of points that are worth discussion. Jackhammer111 (talk) 23:07, 18 January 2019 (UTC
 * Thanks for the message, - I've not checked the museum yet and can barely remember, but that's how I do my original research - I query everything, and try to miss nothing. They are only 'ape-ing' (monkey see-monkey do) king of the streets, copycatting what's gone before. They, presumably, cannot prove any historic date for it? I have no idea what Jay Leno is, apart from wealthy, as he is mostly unheard-of in England. I think he is a chat show host like Letterman, but may have been a stand-up comedian, initially. He cannot prove the saying, either, as it stands - anecdotal accounts are meaningless. My grievance with WP - not primarily with you - is that the internet is being used to re-write history. *By website operators with no knowledge, experience, archives or publishing background, just plagiarising content from other sources, then mostly slapping a copyright notice on the bottom. I recently wrote crucial, unique words on WP that within 7 days had been transcribed to a new website, run by UK 'millennials', little kids, all  self confessed wannabe writers With no acknowledgement to WP as the source, I cannot prove I did not copy their content - worse still, any hostile wikilawyer keyword-searching could complain I had not para-phrased it - in this instance, it's Wordpress so shouldn't be considered seriously by any knowledgeable editor. *Or by determined individuals on WP who defend the literary-equivalent of 'The Right to Bear Arms', by going to war, based on a corrupt system, down-played but centred-around WP:VNT. In some cases, I have to explain to people what, where, how, why and who is/are associated with what I call Wiki-lies. For evidence of the 'lies at Wikipedia', please view this short video excerpt from a peak-viewing, mainstream BBC channel show where Ian Hislop and Val McDermid semi-satirise the reality of the lies. A similar example is to try include what you describe as slang, where there is no actual evidence - a modern work only satisfies WP:TRUTH - what I call no historical significance whatsoever. One UK editor (a legal academic) has stated, generally, that it is impossible to prove a negative (that something didn't exist based on no evidence to prove it did) and that absence of proof is not proof of absence. When I started to investigate WP six years ago, I could not have anticipated that, soon after, the US president would break a phrase world-wide - Fake News. For an example of this, please read the short section I wrote George Clarke (architect) where it should be clear how fake news was generated by a video-journalist 'desparate' for a scoop, uploading in real-time, then disseminated widely by other desparates. I included a transcript for those IP addresses unable to access BBC iPlayer. The BBC Newsnight investigation concludes: "It is often not possible to definitively say that something didn't happen - all we can do is search for witnesses and scrutinise the evidence; we've done that and haven't turned up anything that suggests this amazing event actually happened, indeed all the available evidence points to the opposite conclusion." Presently, I am (and have been for some time) looking several aspects where modern/internet accounts fly in the face of historical records, and of people's experiences; citing modern websites just compounds the confusion. A modern museum is just that - changing a typo merely satisfies WP:VNT - that they wote their opinion in 2019 - there's nothing historical unless period hard-copy can be seen (or cine news-reel). This is not just the tip of the iceberg - it's simply the outer layer of the tip. I've enjoyed skimming through the stuff about Tony this week - made me remember that the baffles were intentionally de-mountable (many on ebay.com) for flame-removal of two-stroke crud; when I see fake pictures being sold, claiming to be from one of his record breaking runs by someone involved in the Facebook group, I see bellmouths, knowing they need larger jets, the needles moving up two notches, but forgot about the baffles being removable. I've only ridden a 250 on-test, after reparing it - T boned a bus at low speed by drag-racing cars away from the lights - the rider never rode/drove again, we think he suffered with tunnel-vision. I should also re-iterate here that whatever is on the certificate, it's only a strip/national record, not world. World records can only be set under FIM jurisdiction, and need two-way runs (to negate windage) being within one-hour of each other. If the venue lights are not reversible, then it's a strip-record, not applicable nationally. I have 1973 figures for the works Norton Commando with peanut tank (not strictly stock but street-legal) and another full road spec with 5 gallon tank where the tester states everbody's times were off because of the head wind - strip lights were one-way. My objection is that by trying to include alleged street-gossip into WP, this gives any website operator the green light to replicate, hence it grows bigger and bigger, potentially WP:CIRCULAR. Your own experiences as a street outlaw are immaterial.<P> Presently, I am trying to get to the bottom of who/when/why singled-out the CB750 as allegedly the first superbike. Determined research uncovered a 1970 source that shows 7 bikes as superbikes - why should the Honda be singled-out by later writers? I am not 'allowed' to express that these writers and ewriters are modern. It is their opinion-only, not borne-out historically, as yet. The writer Margie Siegal (here at Wayback) has cloned others' works (Worthpoint), then padded it out with anecdotal accounts from a latter-day owner of a classic bike; this is why I resent modern works being located by keyword-search, then prominently used. I now rarely write prose because of this - that hostile editors could try to disprove, by keyword searching, and other factors. I have a handful of things to try to put to rights, but every page I look at leads to five more, all needing investigation and corrective work. I hope that clarifies my position on including slang/gossip into WP, when it is just that - forum and blog stuff, not encyclopaedic. I would be eminently impressed if a period magazine could be found, though.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:45, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I've now looked at the two 'museum' links as you have shown above . I do not consider that 1969 instead of 1972 is a typographical error; more likely a basic compilation error. That it has been reproduced at gearchic indicates the HTML-text and additional image was supplied to the webmaster; again, someone with a background in it would/should/ve noticed.<P> A couple of years back, my local administration contracted-out leisure provision to a private, commercial, for profit organisation. They produced glossy flyers delivered to 36,000 households, showing the word Distruct instead of District. They (the administration responsible for collecting the taxes and delivering local services) had no idea, until I emailed directly the CEO, with whom I was acquainted - she later moved on, geographically to another administation area. This is an example of typo, where the keyboard's adjacent letter had been struck. This should never have happened in the first place - no-one should proof-read their own work. Secondly, the print run should not have taken place after quality-scrutiny of the initial setting - the print worker(s) responsible should have found. Thirdly, they should never have been distributed door-to-door. The gearchic website is privately owned (and should be discounted as a WP:SPS) by a woman claiming to work for Revzilla homepage of Revzilla. I do not think your public declaration - that you intend to contact the Simeone website to request that archived content advertising an annual, chargeable exhibition be revised, to allow you to include a passing-mention only of King of the Streets as a citation when there are no others, would be held in high-regard by the wider, non-involved Wikipedia community. Please take notice of this advice. I have screen-grabbed the two sites. Simeone is commercial, mainly car-only - the 'King' tag could have been provided by the two exhibitors themselves. This type of desparate Point-of-View pushing really is has no historic significance and is only potentially-exploitive of the corrupt system that Wikipedia allows under WP:VNT. I also saw your 2018 objection and deletion of 'expansion chambers' (re-added 22 Oct 2014; this indicates non-WP:NPOV, partisan editing - instead you should have added the exact quote, as follows: "The mufflers were really racing expansion chambers, muffled to meet the loose decibel requirements of the 1960s" - right or wrong (your semi-talk quote is: souce it self is questionable as it falsely said the mufflers were expansion chambers), again satisfying WP:TRUTH - not that I have any regard for the writer, at a then-new (established 2009) website writing in 2009, claiming (probably since) to be the absolute experts in everything. This was addressed by Brianhe, then you deleted it again you don't "reword" a falsehood. The expansion chamber claim isn't even in the article, it's in the comment section of the article. Anyone could have put it there. It's a bad source inside a bad source. Also note in the same work, the writer refers to the 1970 American magazine, omitting that 7 machines were regarded as Superbikes (not just the Honda CB750) - the earliest usage of Superbike I have yet identified. As I stated, no archives, no background as a publisher, plagiarised content.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:24, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

You're killing me. It's one thing to make arguments against inclusion of King of the streets it's another thing to continually be making negative commentary about every mention of it. You say the museum made passing mention of it. Don't be ridiculous they put it in quotation marks. You calling it a passing mention does not mean that it's not there. You attach a value judgment by calling it a passing notion that is flippant. How many mentions do you need to see before they quit being passing Notions? You say the Simone museum is commercial. So what? Cycle magazine is commercial. Install Norton Cycle World test may have even been worse. I'm trying to find where I read that they gave that motorcycle to the guy that wrote the article. I don't think it's an uncommon practice. The regularly give the motorcycles that they are testing to the magazines that are testing them. The companies that are making them advertised in them Yet you don't call those biased sources. They are commercial and yet you don't argue that they are a bad source. There is no such thing as a 1969 Kawasaki H2 and you know it. And you want to argue against that being a typo and being instead some kind of compilation error is totally unconvincing and it makes me wonder what your agenda is. Flyers typo argument is completely irrelevant and doesn't make the argument more convincing. There is no such thing as a 1969 Kawasaki H2 and you know it. I certainly don't have to source that. 1972 was the first Model H2. And you know it. I don't know how many different ways to say it. You could only not be a typo if there was such a thing as a 1969 Kawasaki H2. The table below not only gets the year right it gives the name and city of the owner. Of course it's a typo. The gobbledygook about compilation is arguing on a pinhead over the definition of typo. It's a mistake. Clearly the motorcycle they're referring to is the one they have in the collection which is a 72. Evidently I have to say this over and over again for you to get it you write eloquently about a lot of stuff in your response to me and then when it comes to talking about motorcycles you hit a wall. Or maybe in your case you T-boned a school bus."the 'King' tag could have been provided by the two.." so what? Had to be provided by somebody. Would you argue against something and Cycle World magazine because it was written by somebody? And what do you mean by to exhibitors. The Simone Foundation is the exhibitor. They say this is the eighth time Viv exhibited this collection of bikes. They call the 1954 MV Augusta the “Disco Volante”. That also is a nickname or a slang term that's completely appropriate for the motorcycle.

Did you bother to try to find the exhibit on the Simone Foundation website? It's there.[https://www.simeonemuseum.org/museum-news/announcing-simeone-museums-2016-motorcycle-exhibit-land-of-the-rising-sun-mid-century-motorcycles-fast-from-the-past#more-11180 here ya go. ] And while I'm at it.

The pictures on the poster are not fake. They are consistent with the other photos taken that day. I fixed the problem of the certificate not being readable by linking to a photo of the actual certificate. The Mufflers are stock. Yes,  the baffles come out of the muffler. I know that I owned one. It's got nothing to do with whether those are stock Mufflers or notYou are completely confused about drag racing records and FIA World Records. We're not talking about world record speedruns that have to be made in One Direction. Ahra and NHRA sanctioned race tracks are one way tracks. You make one way runs in drag racing. You are not in a position the claim that that is not a world record. I can show you a dozen ahar certificates that all say world record. I don't know what you get if you said a strip record. There were only two credible sanctioned bodies in drag racing in the world. It's an American sport that has now spread around the world if a recognized sanctioning body says it's a world record, it's a world record and you can't offhandedly blow that away.If the wind is in your face it's your tough luck. If the wind is behind you above a certain amount you can't make record runs.The certificate claims it to be a world Record. The AHRA was one of two recognized santioning bodies in drag racing. Who are you to say it wasn't a world record? It says it in more than one place on the document. I'm surprised that someone like you that can write in such details about other matters could be so ignorant of what a drag racing record is versus a FIA World Record. You make me repeat myself. FIA world records are top speed records. Yes I'm fully aware that they have to be made in two directions in one hour that's what makes the world record of763.035 mph by ThrustSSC so utterly astounding. Yes they had to make a supersonic run, get it stopped turn it around and get it started on the backup run within 60 minutes. Documentary evidence is the best kind of evidence there is even by Wikipedia standards. By the way you say you have figures on the 73 Norton Commando? Well, what do they say. There's nothing below 12 seconds is there? Find the photographs of Tony Nicosia Kawasaki with the placard on it that says it's in the A/B class. The record run and its backup were made right after those photographs were taken. Take that photograph and compare it to any stock Kawasaki age to photograph you can find and tell me that the Mufflers are different. And the stock Mufflers were not expansion Chambers. They were Mufflers with baffles in them. Yes, they were removable. So what? Expansion chamber's work differently than Mufflers, that's why the engines generate more power. Duh! There are other things I want to address but this just kept me up all night I do not appreciate your asinine "desperate Point-of-View" comment. Especially since you more than once have been accused of own violations. The King of the streets moniker is of historic value to the history of the H2 Kawasaki. I don't give a damn about your personal distaste for it. The discrediting of Jay Leno and the Kawasaki vice president and snarky comments every time it's brought up like it's beneath your dignity. I now have two Museum sources. And a list of blog sources as long as your arm. I'm not done. And as you can see by me verifying Tony Nicosia his record I don't just go away and I'm persistent as hell. Tony actually wants Pete Grasilli's 11.81 memorialized. That would put the Dunstal Norton in the rearview mirror. I'm working on it. As long as I'm alive I will try to leave institutional memory behind. You talk about fake photographs and bellmouth mufflers, you don't know what you're talkin about. I see you do have areas of expertise. Knowing anything about motorcycles that you haven't read somewhere is not one of them. I'm just trying to work within Wikipedia rules to document things that I already know are true. The dawn still Norton is not a factory motorcycle, Tony Nicosia is 11.95 is real, it was a world record, I'm going to prove he went faster and set the record again at 11 85 andthe NHRA record set by Peter grasselli held at 11.81 for several years, and the H-2 it was commonly referred to as the king of the streets. I think I've asked before why you don't quit snarking me and use your Superior research skills to help me document. Next thing you know you'll be trying to tell me that that record certificate is a fake.Jackhammer111 (talk) 10:24, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * - I know you'll continue to 'hate on me' (we in England don't use that phrase). Just some notes here for my own records. At long last I have been able to spare some few hours on this. Screenshots taken but I hate this new computer. The weblink to content at 1972 Kawasaki H2 750 Mach IV at St. Francis Motorcycle Museum should be disregarded ; the Museum (hence website) is 2015 onwards (About Us). The description of the H2 contains copy/paste from WP dated 30 December 2010 this diff, relating to racing tail. Unacknowledged plagiarism from Wikipedia. The museum site is NOT a publisher, has no acknowledged archives or affiliations to any and was probably created by web site designers who have no experience, knowledge or involvement in the sector. Desperate keyword-searching in 2018/2019 produces fake citations with no historical accuracy or relevance. The terms widowmaker and hommage to Rick Brett was introduced as uncited original research to WP 20 September 2006, Kawasaki triple when the article was originated. Some text was later disseminated thus, with more original research relating to king of the streets: Kawasaki H2 Mach IV in 2010. Baccaruda, baby. The St. Francis Motorcycle Museum page for Hardly Able -son XR1000 contains an acknowledgement to being a scraper site having taken content from multiple web presences - "Adapted from several internet websites." That was the first I looked at; they are requesting donations. Not going to waste any more time on this glossed-up BS. It's 4.30AM and I'd like two hours sleep. 8¬( --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 03:30, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

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vandal?
"determinedly vandalised by Jackhammer111" deleted by act of vandalism from Jackhammer111,

Retract that accusation. If you think I've done that take it to admins, do not vilify me in public with a scurrilous public accusation that I've committed a Wikipedia violation that could get me banned. I simply made an editing mistake. You're failure to assume my good faith is astounding.

Jackhammer111 (talk) 04:29, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

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Cagoule
Thank you for your note. While there maybe a historic relationship between a cagoule (cowl), anorak and balaclava, the edit I made was to remove the link that has balaclava as synomous with a cagoule. In contemporary British culture (the primary use of the term), a cagoule is a "waterproof rain jacket" and balaclava is a "cloth headgear designed to expose only part of the face". Unless you have a source that shows anyone using the terms cagoule and balaclava interchangably. You are welcome 86.11.51.106 (talk) 15:13, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Please go to Talk:Rice burner
Please review past discussions at Talk:Rice burner. I’m aware that lots of Internet users have strong opinions about this but what they don’t have is sources to back them up. Please go to Talk:Rice burner and cite yours.—Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:34, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
 * - I can't see anything worth reviewing, particularly considering I already established the historic baseline at at Talk:Rice burner in 2015 - I thought adequately-enough, obviously not convincing. Are you suggesting/arguing that this multitude of modern publications (2000>) negates history? historic? Not according to sources cited in rice burner. Most sources say it is rooted in racial stereotypes.<P>Are you invoking WP:SYNTH? In that the publications do not actually give exactly the words you want to find? If so, this seems like Wikilawyering to the nth degree and smells of ownership and pre-warring that the world knows you get off on. AFAIC, this is an Americanism derived from the then-recent, post Pearl Harbour hatred of Jai Pan. I do not believe it to be an Englishism (or Antipodeanism, although that's a possiblity given the proximity). We didn't have the same level of sentiments as we have few of those nationals (couldn't float across the Pacific) although there may have been a few interned in Isle Of Man. I've already mentioned elsewhere that I would only cite readers' contributions for historic value to prove usage (something you queried somewhere I can't quickly recall, called Full Chat, in that particular case a full regular feature, one or more monthy magazine pages, not reader-sourced content) not for Notability purposes. Whilst I've got you, I've something special planned for you that I rough-drafted I think in July 2016 - I really should finish it. Since then I've pushed the date back from your implied 1970/73 to perhaps 1957(? from memory). Most of the page images (showing a backwards-timeline to 1960(?) have been up at Flickr since 2016, excepting the earliest (stating *new*, so no need to look further back) which I obtained very recently. There should be no future Wikilawyering regarding copylink vio as I hold hard copy. To re-iterate, this concerns you - passively, perhaps, potentially corrupting history. Again whilst I've got you this appears not to have been decided/recinded? Administrators' noticeboard/Archive315. I followed it but chose not to !vote. I notice you changed at least one of the edits from one other participant recently. I am obliged to have seen the archive as the index shows another incident of interest. Happy New Year to you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 04:48, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the only problem is the use of word 'historic'. If you want to say it dates to the 1960s or late 50s or whatever, that's fine. But it's too subjective and relative to call that "historic". It is often read to mean the word is archaic or obsolete, rather than in current use. So we can just say when it began, and not comment on whether we think that was a long time ago or recent. It would probably help to mention on the rice burner article the usage in the Korean War, prior to being applied to cars.<P>In an event, for a dab page, it's too much information . All that we need there is to say it's a car subculture term that covers both a subjective kind of car and the people who (subjectively) drive them. And that it's fundamentally racist. Even if some people claim it has been reappropriated and isn't racist, it is so in the sense that it's not work safe, not school safe, and wouldn't appear in mainstream media except as a quote laden with caveats.<P>Regarding ibans, an iban doesn't need to be rescinded in the case of known sockpuppets, and since they eventually outed themselves and were blocked, my request became moot. 72bikers was a sockpuppet of the notorious HughD all along, and Spacecowboy420 was a sockpuppet of Sennen goroshi. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:25, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Closing HTML tags
Hi, Rocknrollmancer. I followed your post at User talk:Stephen Fried Egg with one of my own, only to find that the formatting was wrong, with my message tagged directly onto the end of yours, instead of on a new line. It took me quite a while fiddling around before I realised what the cause of the problem was. You had used HTML tags to start new paragraphs, but had not closed them with. I have replaced your tags with new lines. It is on the whole better to avoid mixing HTML tag with wiki markup, except for functions which wiki markup doesn't provide, but if you do use HTML tags, it is important to make sure that you also provide the corresponding closing tags, to avoid problems with subsequent edits. JBW (talk) Formerly JamesBWatson 21:22, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you - I have always done that when using indented messages (as a clear linespace - when used as a para-break - de-indents the following text; example below) and mustaf just done it automatically from mental conditioning. I didn't realise it was necessary to close-off, although it makes sense. There have been some instances when I looked back at Talk pages where formatting such as italics and underlining have been carried through, that I later corrected, can't remember exactly so I will be more diligent.

I'll keep an eye on things including the other Isle of Man articles as I usually do. Thx for your PRODs, etc., noted.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:59, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Reply to welcome message
Thanks for the welcome message on my Talk page and the tips - it's so hard to know where to look when trying to work out how to get started on Wikipedia. I'm not likely to be a frequent contributor as I don't have time, but I have been a fan of the Bloodhound Project for some years and was surprised the page was so out of date when I looked at it while they were doing high speed testing, so thought I would set myself a project of bringing it up to date. Not sure why my changes don't look typical but I do a bit of writing for my job, so maybe that's why.13Scorpio (talk) 11:46, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Transferred and responded at User talk:13Scorpio.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:26, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

WP:BLP Living People
Hello, I'm Agljones. I noticed that you made an edit concerning content related to a living (or recently deceased) person   on User:Rocknrollmancer, but you didn't support your changes with a citation to a reliable source, so I removed it. Wikipedia has a very strict policy concerning how we write about living people, so please help us keep such articles accurate and clear. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you! Agljones12:16, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

You dont have to watch long to find the next same proble. "Wikipedia has a very strict policy concerning how we write about living people" Had the same problem with him. But not he is in trouble - I am - for nothing. Great :) --BIanca617 (talk) 06:15, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

drew pritchard
why delete his named..im brackets,ive watched him for years on tv,he ought to have a page of his own — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drew270 (talk • contribs) 00:05, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The link you added only went back to the same page . The edit summary gives the reason, circular wikilink. There is no reason to have it on the page. The link is still active from the search box - try it. There is not a page about Drew Pritchard because no-one has written one. Presently there might not be enough press coverage for a separate article, and also as it is a very commercial subject it could be seen as promoting his business. The article Salvage Hunters concerns the television programme in general, not the man. Thank you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

yes i understad all that but at least it will give someone the incentive to create his page.im not qualified enough or have the experience to do so. when i have done once b4 i was told it wasnt researched enuff...i reserched the person for 4 weeks beore adding it on here,i think that wikipedia is getting rather not wanting information and one gets bullied alot by just using the two brackets ******  in persons or item profiles.i just wish someone would type in plain english too..im not aquainted with wikis  name/ terms/abbreviations...sumtimes ive ive no idea wat people are going on  about..eve tho with an iq of 178,im not techno minded...could do with a mentor? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drew270 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, here's the situation. I have been ill and injured for most of last year requiring much regular bed rest; accordingly, I've seen many of the Salvage Hunter episodes and now they're running older episodes from 2013. I did internet-search Drew Pritchard and there was not enough, in my opinion, for a stand alone article. A lot of it was scandal involving womanising, violence, drinking and pub bans over a large area - not the stuff that a Wikipedia article should be based on. Wikipedia is not censored, though, and it's supposed to be neutral point of view, meaning good along with the bad. I will look again in time, but I only remember North Wales local press-pieces, promoting his business, or internet businesses promoting their interests, a planning application for expansion of his shop and another article about his cottage. For a Wikipedia Biography of a Living Person, there needs to be carefully considered content. The Sun and Daily Mail are not allowed as references, for example, similarly Imdb, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, LinkedIn.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:31, 14 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Agreed. However:
 * - It's common practice here that links to redirects which point back to the same page get removed. (Note that there's an exception for redirects to specific sections)
 * - WP:WTAF would carry more weight.
 * I would agree that this is a short-sighted practice, because it leaves the referencing articles in a poor state when the article is created. However WP doesn't seem to have many software developers editing here, and practice like this, and the reasons for them, aren't understood.
 * An article on Drew Pritchard is easily justified, although it's likely to also get some pushback from those saying "just a TV presenter". Andy Dingley (talk) 00:29, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I understand the dilemma, - once the redirect was created 14 October 2019, it prevented a redlink that might've prompted an article to be created; the hope is then, that the creator  turns the redirect into an article and links to it accordingly. Also, I didn't realise that recent bluelinks would be retroactively-applied to earlier versions? As shewn in this original upload, 21 January 2019.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 03:16, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * drew britchard.well thats being bredjuduce,,sorry my letter bewteen o and q is not working  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drew270 (talk • contribs) 01:31, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Small penis
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;Small penis&mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Doug Mehus T · C  19:37, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:The Garibaldi School logo.png
Thank you for uploading File:The Garibaldi School logo.png. However, it is currently missing information on its copyright and licensing status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can verify that it has an acceptable license status and a verifiable source. Please add this information by editing the image description page. You may refer to the image use policy to learn what files you can or cannot upload on Wikipedia. The page on copyright tags may help you to find the correct tag to use for your file. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

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Café racer & Rocker (subculture) pages
Hi,

I've not been particularly busy on WP lately, but lockdown idleness is giving me a bit of time to tap at my keyboard!

I wonder if we might be in accord when I suggest that both the Café racer & Rocker (subculture) pages have lost their way? Some of the contributing editors appear to know byggerall about either topic.

The definitions on the café racer page just seem to have a fifth-hand analysis. I know that WP does not welcome original research, but the Mods & Rockers period was a time of history that I lived through. Neither page rings true.

I propose to have bash at a major rewrite shortly.

Any views? Arrivisto (talk) 15:11, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * - apologies for the delay in responding. I have been reflecting, and twice have drafted messages that I have not yet finished; I will try to gel these together ASAP. Thx and rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 02:21, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Kawasaki H1 Mach III image
We have quite a few images in commons:Category:Kawasaki H1. Which one should we using?©Geni (talk) 13:10, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * For an encyclopedia, I would always prefer images which show the original specification, particularly where it's very historic/classic machinery, and, moreover, likely to be a popular article, 3,700 views in the last 60 days. File:Kawasaki 500 H1 White MACH.jpg would give a reader a good impression of the original specification, the artificial lighting is not too harsh, and it gives a third-dimensional perspective, unlike File:Kawasaki 500 Mach III H1.jpg. The engine close-up in the article endured from 2012, and was a major feature/development, bringing the engine configuration to market, although a much-lower profile UK example pre-dated it by over a decade Berkeley Cars. It's often difficult where there are only modern images available, which may provoke public-comments - such as this, prompting an image-change, 9 March 2018. Many of these bikes are now so valuable that they are often trailered/vanned to exhibitions (check this one, for the mileage, etc., a 1960 registration purporting to portray a 1965> bike, with detail differences from the original (1965) spec (bright-plated lower fork legs and swan-neck clip-ons). Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:01, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Switched to file:Kawasaki 500 H1 White MACH.jpg. I don't claim to know much about motorbikes but from what I can tell a lot exist in preservation so I'd assume there are usually at least some out there that are in close to original condition. So its really a matter of identifying them and then getting decent photos of them.©Geni (talk) 16:23, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks, . There is quite a cult following for this type of large-capacity engine, imported firstly to US and in larger numbers than UK. They were transient, being doomed to history due to their total-loss oiling system creating exhaust pollution, high fuel consumption, and being an 'expensive' gallon, needing special consumable oil to mix in with petrol. Being back then a minor manufacturer, there wasn't a 'proper' Kawasaki import structure to UK until 1974, when someone from Honda established a base for Kawasaki dealership network (identifying who is on my 'to do' list). Hence there were relatively few in UK, then, equally from 1974, the cleaner engine types gradually took over across the manufacturers. Your image reminded me of File:Kawasaki H2 750cc.jpg which was the bigger brother, a slightly later development. rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Sad news
Hello, I am very sorry to report that Ronhjones passed away with his wife in a house fire last April. Since you were one of the top editors on his talk page per this tool, I thought I should let you know. Graham 87 12:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for getting in touch - that is truly awful; I feared something grave. I had tried to search several times, as I knew where he lived, but couldn't have anticipated that consequence.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:26, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Richard Seaman.JPG
Thanks for uploading File:Richard Seaman.JPG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 04:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Be more polite please
Kawasaki triple. Also here. Be more polite please. He want to help and you just deleted it. Like vandalize. He did not. Wiki = be nice! If a source is missing - be nice,say friendly hello, look together to find a source and try to do good solution. Thats Wiki about. Its important and a Wiki master rule. Thank you very much. TheorieMankk (talk) 13:06, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * - Thank you for your lecture. Wikipedia has rules about self-published sources = not allowed; perhaps you do not understand this? You are a new user with no experience - have you used another log-in/name before now? It looks suspicious when you establish a new username - are you trying to hide your background? You are not involved in any of the articles, and you do not know how to format text correctly. Why are you targeting me / following me? In Kawasaki triple, I gave guidance in the edit summary: "Interesting, but not a suitable source for Wikipedia" = nice. I already had checked, and another user had reverted the same content four days earlier at N100.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:59, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Inormation - If you are in trouble with this User
Just a note for the future. This User seams very less friendly and very less interessted in a good and nice working together. Instead of beeing special nice to Users under 1000 edits it seams he likes to attack them and feel to have special power or something like that. I write this here in the hope it maybe will prevent this a litle bit in future. I am pretty sure there was MANY of such cases in past noone ever sees after he moobs them out. Absolutely unsuitable for dealing with people who have less power than him. A Shame! Specialy if you read the WP Rules. Rules that almost exclusively talk about how important it is to work together, to be nice, considerate and all this. If I had to bet I would estimate that WP has lost 20-50 new good users over the years through him alone. And I don't mean this badly or anything else. I mean this very neutrally. Escalation level 90+. And specialy sad. Noone seams to care.. Unfortunately --BIanca617 (talk) 05:50, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. BIanca617 (talk) 08:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, Rocknrollmancer,
 * I was aware of these sockpuppet problems yesterday and I see that it has been resolved today. I'm sorry that you came under such sustained abuse. Unfortunately, sockpuppets can at times be rather fixated on certain editors so please let me or another admin if they return. They seem very recognizable so it shouldn't be difficult to identify them. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:56, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you - I always try to apply a good margin of AGF when recent accounts are involved, but I'm pleased  was bold in proceeding with SPI. rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Apologies
Hello. I was retagging the sockpuppets in the case Sockpuppet investigations/Frider443 and noticed that I had tagged an unblocked user using a userscript (spihelper). On further inspection it looks like both me and CU who ran a checkuser accidentally tagged you as a sockpuppet. I would like to apologize for that on behalf of the CU and myself. To ensure everything is clear, I've reverted the addition of the tags on your userpage with the edit summary explaining that you are not a sockpuppet, and I am posting here to also say the same thing. Again apologies and happy editing, Dreamy <i style="color:#d00">Jazz</i> talk to me &#124; my contributions 09:37, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, .--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:04, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 6
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Sutton-in-ashfield
Hi

Please can I ask why has the Sutton in Ashfield wiki page has been blocked? It appears there has been issues with it. I have noticed changes were made by yourself. DavidAshfield1 (talk) 09:47, 22 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I've dealt with this on David's Talk page and explained the situation. Deb (talk) 11:20, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Huthwaite
Hi There,

Please see the minor changes to the Huthwaite Wiki page with separate sections for employment and industry, it's clear this is from the past am I right? DavidAshfield1 (talk) 23:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Stanton Hill
Hi There, I have separated the history from the former industry with sections, does that look better? DavidAshfield1 (talk) 23:24, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Sutton-in-ashfield
Hi There,

Please can you have a look at he wiki page I have updated the page. Thank you DavidAshfield1 (talk) 01:37, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Sutton in Ashfield
Hi There,

Please advise

The villages in the geography section used to have civil parishes until 1934 when they merged with the Huthwaite urban district and the civil parishes of Fulwood, Skegby and Teversal were transferred to the district of Ashfield. These villages do not appear to stand alone from Sutton-in-ashfield, should the statement in the section still remain?

https://visionofbritain.org.uk/unit/10102467/boundary DavidAshfield1 (talk) 09:49, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Apologies, but I don't have the time to even look at this - hopefully I will find the opportunity later this year.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Gina Radford


The article Gina Radford has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "Certainly accomplished, but not enough in-depth coverage from independent sources to meet WP:GNG."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 14:44, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

CBX
We're having warm weather this week: I hope to take the bike out and ride to work. Take care. Drmies (talk) 01:59, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Teversal FC page changes
Hi there,

Just seen that my recent changes to the Teversal FC page were removed as you deemed them unnecessary. I'm rather new to editing articles and such, so was just wondering what the reasoning was behind the edits being unnecessary and I'm eager to learn for the future as to what edits to make. (I can see that you have been a user here for some time so would naturally trust your expertise over my own) Will Bunning (talk) 17:08, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes,, I left basic guidance in the edit summary for what I did - this involved editing to your changes, not removing them. Firstly, one image does not constitute enough for a Gallery (and in basic-form a gallery produces very small thumbnails), and a separate Heading is not needed for a one-line description of a ground, when the article is about the football club. Also, adding the street-address could be deemed as promotional (whereas WP needs to be WP:NPOV), similarly putting contact detail at the end of a citation, thus: . NB, Pitchero is a Primary source, whereas WP prefers secondary. Teversal FC has no secondary sources. Ampersand is generally not used on Wikipedia - I did check online and saw both versions, "...Grange Sports & Social", plus "...Grange Sports and Social". I also looked at Google streetview and searched online for the social club/restaurant demolition. That mostly covers your changes; the other bits referred to the lack of independent verification for the "1918s" year-date that I left in (without deleting the extraneous 's'). This article is on my watchlist as most (all?) of the little settlements around Sutton in A have been swamped by many changes from a series of sock identities making extensive changes using various identities over several months, often requiring extraordinary attention from regular editors to put things right and also protecting the articles, so naturally any changes, particularly from inexperienced users, will attract extra scrutiny. One of these changes was including a list of villages and descriptions into S in A article, when there were already dedicated stand-alone articles - this would give a representative edit summary. This also included obsessing over the postal address; in this case showing it as, Teversal, Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire when Teversal, Nottinghamshire, is adequate for WP. Hope that's not too confusing ! You're not expected to know copious detail, and it does take a lot of time to learn.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:30, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah right, thank you very much for the thorough explanation and advice Rocknrollmancer. I didn't even realise I had used the ampersand, that makes sense! I am based in the Sutton-in-A area (like yourself I'm assuming) so have also been trying to clean up local articles here and there when I can. I do think now that it looked a bit silly just having a singular line of text under the heading for the stadium when I look at it now, so my bad. I looked at a few of the other articles for teams in the same division as Teversal FC and saw that a few of them had photographs of the ground included, so decided I would upload a picture for the article to flesh it out a bit - was having difficulty trying to get the photo in the article which is why I ended up using the gallery which I knew didn't look quite right! The date the club was founded, I had no clue who edited that but I left that alone as I didn't know enough about that particular section. Still getting used to my reference sources, it's rather annoying when you know information to be true but struggle to find an appropriate reference to back up the information, isn't it? It's a shame there isn't more secondary sources for the club as like I say it's one of my local teams so always like to bulk up local articles and add more info where I can.  But anyway I much appreciate the advice and tips (also helpful links), I will keep your advice in mind when editing future articles! Cheers! --Will Bunning (talk) 14:15, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Article for Submission: Draft: The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch
Yes, hi, I am not quite sure what to do, if you could please help. Thanks!18:35, 13 February 2021 (UTC)18:35, 13 February 2021 (UTC)18:35, 13 February 2021 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by WaussusBeaver (talk • contribs)


 * FYI - On 4 Feb, IP 174.3.212.76 (who may be WaussusBeaver not logged in) had deleted all the AfC Declines and a Rejected. I restored those. Same IP had deleted Declines twice before that. David notMD (talk) 20:27, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 4
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About Flags in Circuit Infoboxes
'''You are still adding flags without reason. Others do this, but this is no reason for you to keep doing it. This is poor editor behaviour. You can see that F1 drivers are exempt, but this is only in articles about the drivers.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:24, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

If you think the flags should not be included in the infoboxes due to the WP:INFOBOXFLAG situation, you can remove all of the flags on all the race circuits directly. Otherwise, if there are flags for the drivers on the infoboxes of most circuits, why would I not think about the needlessness of the flags?

But, if you think only the nationality flags of F1 drivers can be exempt for the circuit records, why was the flag of Lewis Hamilton removed on his circuit lap record on Algarve International Circuit?
 * My understanding is that flags are only allowed in the articles about F1 drivers - see Mike Hailwood. I erred on the side of caution by initially leaving Lewis Hamilton's flag in situ - someone else with better knowledge of the situation removed it afterwards, stating the exemption did not apply to circuits - so you went ahead and re-added it anyway. You should remember this was decided by Wikipedia, not me. It applies to me also. The message I left you at User talk:Apeiro94 stated this briefly in February 2021. It was also left as guidance in the edit summaries. It's not incumbent on me to go though every rider/driver articles and race-track articles, only those I encounter naturally. This is an editor behaviour issue. Most people cannot recognise national flags, so they are meaningless without words like Hungary or Guatemala to explain - this is included at WP:INFOBOXFLAG appearing as ...no reader is familiar with every flag. When including the wrong detail, and deliberately re-adding it when you were asked not to, this encourages others to do the same, thinking it is correct when it is not. Normally new users are respectful and appreciative, but occasionally they go against guidance left in edit summaries, such as WP:INFOBOXFLAG, and at Talk pages. You can choose not to follow the rules, the choice is yours to make. Please remember to sign your messages by adding four tildes, shown here: . Thank you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:46, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

13th April 2021
Thank you for welcoming me to Wikipedia, Rocknrollmancer. Also, thank you for offering to proofread my drafts, that would be very useful. I do have some content that I would like to send you for proofreading before I publish it. Could you advise me on the best way to send you the draft?

Ruby Burdett (talk) 13:18, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Reply (will be) at Talk:Manor Property Group, delayed due to illness.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:08, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Response
@Rocknrollmancer – Thank you for your response and I hope you are now feeling better. I apologise if my declaration was vague. Hopefully, the following information will clarify. I am employed by Chelgate Local, who were retained by Manor Property Group to ensure the factual accuracy of its Wikipedia page. As for your question on Chelgate Local's connection to Chelgate, around 10 years ago a separate division was set up, dedicated to planning public affairs and planning communications, this is now known as Chelgate Local. Upon reviewing the entry, I spotted some factual inaccuracies, which I corrected, and some source links which lead to deleted articles. Manor Property Group’s brief was to ensure the accuracy of the entry, ensure it is written in a balanced way and to include information about its current projects.

An explanation of the changes I made

Under the subtitle ‘Former Heaven and Hell nightclub on Anne Street’, for citations 3, 51, 52 and 53, the links no longer lead to a live article. The reason I removed the writing was not because the information was unfavourable to Manor Property Group, but because it was not referenced. Additionally, this line ‘Manor Property Group Ltd" is current under Compulsory liquidation & being wound up’ is factually inaccurate, rather than unfavourable, which is why I removed it, and clarified that it is not to be confused with Manor Property LTD (an entirely different company). Manor Property Group did not request that any accurate information be removed, even if it is unfavourable. Our brief included reflecting both positive and negative news.

Included in the amends you reverted, was also some new content, the purpose of this was to include more up to date information on the company’s projects, it was not intended to be promotional. The embedded links were not added for promotional purposes, however, now I understand they are not deemed acceptable I will be sure not to include them again.

Thank you for comments and advice, I have taken a lot of it onboard and will ensure I am mindful of your suggestions next time. Going forward, would you suggest I submit a draft via Wikipedia: Article Wizard, where yourself or perhaps another editor can proofread it before I make any further edits to the Manor Property Group page?

Again, thank you for your suggestions, and I hope to hear back from you soon!

Ruby Burdett (talk) 16:23, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

This Is England
That was an automated "general fix", applied by AWB all by itself as one of the changes that it automatically applies to pages, independently of the task I was actually batch-running. So if that's wrong, you'll need to take it up at Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser, because there's no way for me to have stopped AWB from doing it. Bearcat (talk) 02:20, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Admin noticeboard
Hi Rocknrollmancer, I have posted to the incidents board regarding your recent comment on my talk page as I feel you were intimidating me and to an extend. WP:Hounding me...so here is the link. Please speak to me on that page...regards RailwayJG (talk) 18:58, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Replied to at AN/I, in this diff.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:00, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch (July 15)
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by JSFarman was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "Db-g7" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
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JSFarman (talk) 18:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Dune (1984) Citation
Hello, I"m new to wikipedia editing so I'm still learning how this works. I deleted the previous content because it said Lynch had never read the book. In the citation I provided from a 1985 interview Lynch said he read the book before accepting the job and only accepted it because he loved the book and liked the producer Dino. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DexterLecter (talk • contribs) 17:34, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello - I now understand your concern. The original reference is from a magazine; normally, Wikipedia has a requirement to paraphrase original published content, so small variations from the original would be expected. Well done for noticing the important difference when compared to the filmed interview. My former next-door neighbour was an avid reader and he discussed Dune with me, pre-internet.


 * I just wanted you to not delete the reference which is viable (here, page 31 and then scroll down to p.35). On Talk posts, please sign your username by adding four tildes, thus: . I realise it will be difficult to learn things at first. Thank you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:11, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Paul Smart Production TT 1967 Dominator or Atlas?
Hello Rocknrollmancer. I'm another wikipedia novice and this is the first time I have used 'talk'. I notice that you amended the section in the Paul Smart page At the Isle of Man TT Races on a Norton Atlas for Paul Dunstall, Smart scored second place in 1967... referring to an Atlas rather than a Dominator. I am a Norton owner and understand why a production bike of the time with a 745cc engine would be described as an Atlas. As I'm sure you're aware Paul Daunstall very much did his own thing and the race programme lists the bike as a 745 Dunstall Dominator. This was also the designation used for the bike ridden by Ray Pickrell when he won the race in 1968. Please will you edit the section on the Paul Smart page to best reflect this. Thank you. Andydevon (talk) 09:00, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reminder, and for your contributions to WP. I wanted to differentiate that it wasn't a 650, and I actually didn't think about it as much as I could have. The following is taken from Dunstall Norton where I introduced the 'Atlas' (still in my possession, *somewhere* - I need to look for twin-seat Moto Martin press release from circa 1983, so thanks for that reminder, too). Hovering the mouse-cursor over inline citation box [2] reveals the text, called a tooltip."The early 1960s Norton factory racers were called Domiracer, and although Dunstall called his roadsters both Dominator and Domiracer at various stages and with varying engine capacities, the 750s were sometimes known as Dunstall Atlas. They were not known as 'Norton Dunstall' - this is a later corruption as all 1960s literature quote Dunstall Norton Dominator, Dunstall Dominator or Dunstall 750 Atlas."


 * I'll change to read 745 cc Dominator. They were running 2nd and 3rd in 1967 (Quarter Bridge pics) until Griff Jenkins' clutch failed on last lap, pushing in from Hillberry. Here's a pic of Tony Godfrey on a customer (non-works) Dunstall production machine (TT results). rgds--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * If you should ever see any pics of the two Norton Atlases entered by the factory in 1967 to be ridden by Norton employee Peter Inchley and Ron Chandler I should be much obliged. They were fitted with front disc brakes that were not available to customers, and I reckon would've been thrown out for that. They were pulled after practice by Dennis Poore, allgedly due to brake fade. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Draft:penny O'Brien
Hey there! I just want to thank you So much for your helping with me making this article it's means really a lot to me, now you put a citation needed, i found a source but it say that it's (without title) should i still put or find other source? Appreciate you! :) Mac O&#39;Donnell (talk) 07:18, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Revolt Motors
Good day Rocknrollmancer, if you have a free minute sometime, I was wondering if you would be able to upload the Revolt company logo into the infobox of the Revolt Motors article that is currently waiting in the draft folder. Thank-you. Inchiquin (talk) 21:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Gooday - I'm unsure of the acceptability of using corporate logos in non-mainspace articles; accordingly I've put it on my watchlist and will add when published. If I don't see it please give me a nudge. regds, --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:01, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, Rocknrollmancer, appreciated. I'll need to see if I can work out how to add the logos myself, as I am thinking that I'll need to create one more of these. I was doing a search for the e-moto company Vmoto a few days back and noticed that one of the top suggested search results that got returned by the search engine was 'Vmoto Wikipedia'. I would thus assume that there must be many fruitless searches for this one on wiki, so I'll try and set up an article for this one as well later in the week. Inchiquin (talk) 14:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, ; Wikipedia can be very difficult for the inexperienced. Non-free logos (copyrighted, for want of a better term, confusingly sometimes referred to as trade marked) are displayed under an established FUR (fair-use rationale) and can only be hosted at Wikipedia, and used in the respective article. They cannot be hosted at Wikimedia Commons. When they're wrongly uploaded to Wikipedia under the wrong licence, they're automatically cross-wiki uploaded to Commons, too, and have to be deleted. Only an admin can do this, and there's usually a massive shortage at Commons for ordinary actions - I used speedy delete. The quick-form named Upload Wizard almost encourages people to do the wrong thing, once launched. It can get even more complicated than that!
 * I'm pleased we have editors like you to keep abreast of things; I've just watched Motorcycle Live, television coverage of a current exhibition at NEC where there is a new two-stroke 250 limited production Langen road bike, and I noticed a 2017 version called Hesketh Sonnet had been added, both new to me.
 * The ebike companies emerging remind me of the early days of TT Zero in the Isle of Man when the competitors were mostly small companies/universities and amateur riders - until Honda took over with their might channelled through Mugen (and with the death of Michael Czysz), contracting top riders John McGuinness, Bruce Anstey and Michael Rutter.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:36, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I find the e-motorcycle space very intriguing, I have certainly been infatuated with the topic of late. Things are moving very quickly, however, even more so than in the (much better-publicised) electric car space. It will be interesting to where the industry will be in five years from now. Inchiquin (talk) 17:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Rocknrollmancer. I am currently in a bit of a tangle with one American editor, who keeps trying to delete the pages of Revolt Motors, Super Soco and Vmoto, based on some questionable (in my opinion) arguments. Most posters who have commented on the pages seem to agree that the articles are notable, but this one guy seems to have a beef with them. If you don't want to stick your neck out, I can understand that, but if you can provide any measure of support for these pages when you get a chance, it would be appreciated. Inchiquin (talk) 04:27, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

You edit on Arnold, Nottinghamshire (not a criticism, just a suggestion!)
Hi Rocknrollmancer thanks for your edit to the Arnold page. Just a small suggestion, when you remove a lead photo. Maybe when you replace it move the previous lead photo you are changing to either below the infobox, add it side by side as a collage to the new photo or add it further down in a contents tab or gallery?. I have readded the photo of the church (Albeit a newer and much better one) but for future suggestions. Maybe move a photo then completely remove it altogether, not a dig at you or your editing. Just a suggestion as I left a little note in my edit on it. Your new photo is still there don't worry. Regards DragonofBatley (talk) 06:23, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * - I skimmed through the edit summaries/history to see your name, as on 99% of the other articles I look at. Occasionally I find one you haven't left your mark on. I left guidance in the edit summary that there were still three church images showing, and too many images in the Gallery, which is why I deleted the church. Four images of churches, now. Why?
 * The Gallery shows too many roads/junctions/car park - WP:IMAGERELEVANCE and WP:NOTGUIDE - it was late-on, and I didn't have the enthusiasm to check who/what/why were involved in creating the gallery, but it was puposely oversized and I left that alone, too. Rather than delete what I perceive to be extraneous, I tagged the gallery.
 * I only looked at Arnold as someone changed one of my piped links elsewhere - fair enough. BTW, a collage is three-dimensional sculpture using different overlying media to build up the third dimension. A two-dimensional array is a montage, which translates as mount (or frame, as in picture frame) - others on WP may think they're synonymous. A collage can be created with two-dimensional media by cutting/profiling/overlaying, which builds the third dimension, but only on a macro-level.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:10, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

That's fair enough in all fairness I'm wondering why Daybrook's church is even in Arnold's gallery when yes it is an area of the town but the area already has its own article. I think taking that photo off would be understandable. The one I added back is Arnold's main parish church whereas Daybrook's isn't so I think that it's self can be looked at being taken down to trim down photos and that other one isn't very interesting architecture wise of the modern build one. DragonofBatley (talk) 04:03, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * - to the north of the city centre, the locality known as Sherwood is contigous with Daybrook, which in turn is contiguous with Arnold (the western edge of Arnold). This runs into Redhill, which is the absolute limit to the northerly part of what was referred to as Nottingham city. What complicates matters is that the UA was established circa mid-1990s (without checking the date, as I was involved with County highways engineers, who transferred to essentially 'new' jobs at that time).
 * I had a tooth extracted near to Queens Medical Centre (Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust, in Lenton), then drove a mile past Nottingham University (Highfields, which they're now calling University Park Campus) to the Beeston cemetery, which is very close to Bramcote. Just one street or road can affect the way people think of it. Although I can find my way around most of the major roads, I don't appreciate it as a native could.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

That's fine my edits were to avoid placing Arnold within Nottingham itself I get your views. It's just to avoid saying Arnold is a town in Nottingham when only Bulwell is officially in Nottingham. But like Hucknall being contiguous with Nottingham but being in Ashfield District. I get what you mean though DragonofBatley (talk) 18:59, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Request for assistance
Good day Rocknrollmancer, I hope you are well?

I am contacting you because you have previously contributed to the Vmoto and Super Soco pages, and so I was wondering if I could lean on you, for some assistance in a matter relating to these pages?

First up, I should notify you of something that I mentioned in brief a few days back.

In recent days, one Wiki editor has slapped a tag on the Super Soco page, stating that A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. and This article may have been created or edited in return for undisclosed payments, a violation of Wikipedia's terms of use.

At a glance, these tags give the impression that they reflect some kind of consensus view. However, this is not at all the case. It is important to note that it is just one editor who is behind this push.

If you look at the Super Soco AFD page, you’ll see his arguments around COI are summarised in the first three lines.

Suspected WP: UPE - because creator is also connected with Revolt Motors and Vmoto - both distributors of Super Soco electric bikes in India and Australia respectively.

I attempted to explain to the editor in question that his argument behind the UPE and COI tags are mistaken, and that Revolt Motors is not the distributor of Super Soco bikes in India, they are an independent company and are a competitor to Vmoto.

To give an example of what I am referring to, see the link below. What this illustrates is that Vmoto are in fact in compemption with Revolt in India:

''Vmoto is an Australian two-wheeler manufacturing group that largely makes electric scooters. The company recently signed an MoU with the Indian company Bird Group, and will discuss collaborating for the distribution of two of its products – Super Soco CUmini and Super Soco CUx.''

Source: https://gaadiwaadi.com/super-soco-cumini-electric-scooter-india-launch-confirmed/

My attempts to explain this seem to have fallen on deaf ears, he responded by stating  Let's hold the horses and wait for others' assessment. In other words, even this editor won't deny that the UPE tag is questionable!

The argument of the editor around Revolt is based on a source that referring to a supply chain link between Super Soco. However, these links are common in the automotive industry, and especially in a small, emerging industry as is the case with the e-motorcycle space.

There is no question that Revolt Motors and Vmoto Soco are independent companies (in fact, the same is true of Vmoto and Super Soco, although these do have a partnership relationship, albeit one which seems to be breaking down).

Essentially, the UPE and the COI tags on the page are based on the claim that Revolt is the Super Soco distributor in India, which is certainly not the case. In fact, Revolt is not even the same brand as Super Soco.

The reason I feel compelled to mention this to you, is because if the Super Soco article is pulled down based on the dodgy UPE claim, the editor who is pushing for the removal of Super Soco (and it is largely being driven by the one fellow) will probably then go on to delete the Vmoto page AND the Revolt Motors page, using the removal of the Super Soco page as justification.

What concerns me about this is that the UPE tag on a Wikipedia page is like the kiss of death. Most visitors to the page will not realise that there is just one editor behind this, and some will surely nominate the article for delete, based on this mistaken view that there is a well-founded consensus.

At the moment, the editor is targeting the Super Soco page, because he knows it is much quieter that the Vmoto page (note that the UPE tag has not been pasted on the Vmoto page, despite the comments of the editor on the Super Soco page: I believe this is tactical, it looks to me as if the editor is aiming to quietly remove the Super Soco page, before many others notice).

What I am requesting, is would you be able to offer some support in this?

If you could post a 'Keep' request on the Super Soco page or Revolt page that would be a help for sure. However, what would be even more helpful is if you could challenge the dubious UPE claim, posted at the top of the Super Soco page. Basically, if you could employ your research skills to track down any sources that show Revolt Motors and Vmoto are independent and distinct companies, and post it on the Super Soco or Revolt page, that would be fantastic.

Essentially, if the aim is to keep the Vmoto and Super Soco page, we need to show that Revolt Motors and Vmoto are distinct companies, to invalidate the assertion by this editor that there is a conflict of interest here (by the way, I have never accepted a payment for an article on Wikipedia, nor will I ever, although I really shouldn't have to say that, it is a shame that this editor is resorting to gutter-tactics to get these articles removed).

What makes this a bit challenging is that is that there is a lot of mis-information about Vmoto, Super Soco and Revolt, many writers don't understand the relationship between them, and it is possible to 'cherry pick' poor quality sources to mount an argument that there is a relationship between Revolt and Super Soco/Vmoto.

If you are too busy to assist, that is fine, I understand.

Thanks for reading Rocknrollmancer, I know you are probably flat-out this time of year, but any help with this would be greatly appreciated.Inchiquin (talk) 17:17, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#FF4646; background-color:#F6F0F7; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:7px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);;" class="plainlinks">Happy Holidays text.png Hello Rocknrollmancer: Enjoy the holiday season&#32;and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, John B123 (talk) 22:24, 23 December 2021 (UTC) Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Orphaned non-free image File:Revolt Motors logo.png
Thanks for uploading File:Revolt Motors logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:35, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

File:Bradley Ray cropped.jpg
Hi,

With regards to File:Bradley Ray cropped.jpg, I think the first part of your note ("Original may be copyrighted, photographer's name is different to that of the uploader, a professional publicist associated with the organisation.") is likely correct. I've tagged the image on Commons as lacking evidence of permission. As for the second part, did you know that Commons has cropping tool? You can crop and create a new version of a photo and it will fill in all the details for you like license, author and source image. -- Whpq (talk) 00:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * - no didn't know about the tool, I'll try. Something went wrong with the upload, twice notifying me of loss of data - I thought it was to Commons...very strange. Also I noticed a new pop-up recently, based on disambiguation, that I've not seen before. Many thanks for your assistance.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:09, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * c:Commons:CropTool provides some info on the tool. Cheers. -- Whpq (talk) 00:15, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I've now found the original pose at the photographer's site - still visible on my laptop with a few tabs open, but it may be volatile 1-AK7I6622 Bradley Ray at Ian Hopgood Photography.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding that. I've added a note with a link to that photo on the talk page of the image on Commons.  We don't know the contractual arrangements with the photographer so perhaps the photo is freely licensable, but that would need proof sent to VRT. -- Whpq (talk) 00:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Bradley Ray cropped.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Bradley Ray cropped.jpg. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either
 * make a note permitting reuse under the CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
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If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org.

If you believe the media meets the criteria at Non-free content, use a tag such as non-free fair use or one of the other tags listed at File copyright tags, and add a rationale justifying the file's use on the article or articles where it is included. See File copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in [ your upload log]. Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described in section F11 of the criteria for speedy deletion. You may wish to read Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Whpq (talk) 00:04, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note - You have not done anything wrong. You have properly credited the Commons file as the source, but this image has the same problem as the sourec file on Commons that it is lacking evidence that the original uploader is the actual copyright holder. -- Whpq (talk) 00:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

New editor queries
Hi Rocknrollmancer. thanks for the welcome note. I am a bit puzzled by a few of your points.

"One thing I wanted to alert you to is the general unsuitability of forum-type references (as you added to Yamaha R1, not that I have perused it closely or have an opinon on the author); mostly these are not highly thought of as they contain user (member) generated content." Can you clarify what this means I am not sure what a "Forum Type reference" is?

Also, I don't find the 2002, 2004, 2006 etc etc in the lede to be visually appealling. Fair enough

You also haven't added a source for Co2, I will add it

(or why it is needed on Wikipedia). It is a more modern way of measuring a vehicles environmental impact rather than simple mpg. Bartleyo (talk) 21:43, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * - WP:USERGENERATED (a shortcut to part of Reliable sources) explains that:"Content from websites whose content is largely user-generated is generally unacceptable. Sites with user-generated content include personal websites, personal and group blogs (excluding newspaper and magazine blogs), content farms, Internet forums, social media sites, video and image hosting services, most wikis, and other collaboratively created websites."


 * The website you chose has "forum" in the title; their About Us section states: "R1-Forum.com was started by a group of enthusiasts that shared a common passion for the Yamaha R1." and "R1-Forum.com is now owned by VerticalScope Inc, the leader in online forums." Other ways of describing similar are fanzines, fanzones - a further description of some sites might be clickbait - I'm not suggesting this is.


 * I mentioned I only glanced at the R1 forum, and also glanced at what I surmised may be the author's CV, as I didn't want to spend too much down time on it. Another type of website which is deprecated is known as aggregator or scraper-site which takes content from anywhere else and can present it as their own, without any admission to the source material - a common example would be Specs ZA.


 * Hope that helps. I realise you wouldn't know this with little on-Wiki experience.Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:49, 2 February 2022 (UTC)


 * PS - I just checked Fireblade, Panigale V4, ZZR600, Suzuki Hayabusa and Kawasaki ZZ-R1200 - none have CO2 mentioned; seems to me that with a luxury machine which is not used extensively compared to common four-wheel mileages, it would not be considered as a major criterion. Neither is it included in Infobox motorcycle template, so, your addition may be a precedent and, as I originally stated, others might comment.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:08, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Much appreciated, Thanks Bartleyo (talk) 08:56, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Gary Nixon KR750
Thank you for fixing the Gary Nixon KR750 link. I tried doing a search for it but couldn't locate it. How do you retrieve archived links? Thanks.Orsoni (talk) 09:37, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * - I saw it was a recent link from a substantial publisher, so punched the URL into the search field in Wayback machine (link to homepage). rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 16:05, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Mullet
You sure is a good idea to re-add that information, most of the people cited are not real notable in other countries. What was written there is an statement with little realism for taking it as true, I think there was even cited a reference with just a link to access to instagram. TheBellaTwins1445 (talk) 20:03, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh thank you I see what was the problem haha, got you fella. Greetings.-TheBellaTwins1445 (talk) 20:04, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Nope not my doing! Just one byte for a typo turned into an edict conflict, if you can go over it again to your original requirement, you've got a better grasp than me. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:06, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Kawasaki in Lincoln, Neb.
Hi!

I just saw your edit about Kawasaki in the article Lincoln, Nebraska and I thank you much for the edit! I like it. I did notice in your edit that it takes place in the history of Lincoln, which is good, but in the next sentence (containing 'webpresence'), the timeline jumps from 1971, to 1974, *then to 2022 (with the webpresence note) and then back to 1975. Thought -- might this note be better served in the economy section?... perhaps with some expansion? Just thinking since the webpresence part doesn't seem to jive within the history section too well.

Also one other note -- you might find this interesting... page 46 of the pdf:

https://www.lincoln.ne.gov/files/sharedassets/public/police/history/vehicles/motor-history.pdf

Cheers :) ! Hanyou23 (talk) 07:54, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, - this edit was only when passing by, as I have a bit more to do and had to work with what was there. I only glanced through the article, and I agree the chronology was not ideal, so I opted for a quick repository of the info as an interim. As can be seen in the edit summaries, I saw a correct-period (1974) ref which I intend to add as it confirms the initial different business name from that which came about circa early 1980s. Also need to check the coverage in the Kawasaki articles. I also know that Honda established a plant somewhere in US (I am in central England) to assemble Gold Wing motorcycles, so that's also on my long-term list in the back of my mind. Appreciate your message.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:20, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

ANI
Just letting you know there's an ANI report concerning you at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#@Rocknrollmancer_Is_sharing_personal_information_and_cyberstalking, though the reporter did not inform you. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:55, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Homes England logo 250px.png
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Orphaned non-free image File:Steve Hislop profile.JPG
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Just to let you know
About this edit summary, this is one of many named accounts which have been trolling at pages including the ones you reverted for ages so that is not a new user. It is likely to be some LTA as they do vandalism on other wikis as well as this one as some editing behaviour is the same among certain pages. I shall not name the LTA here to deny recognition. Cheers, Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 15:33, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I did see the global lock shortly afterwards, it all happened within a few minutes. I got the edit summary wrong - should've read "please don't restore vandalism". I have seen a few weird newcomer tasks which I thought may be trolls, most I can't remember but this is a good example. rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:49, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough re "please don't restore vandalism". As usual I always miss the events unfolding since on weekdays I don't use Wikipedia in the mornings. Happy editing, Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 15:53, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Teahouse discussion, con't.
First of all, AfC is optional for everyone except IPs, brand new accounts, and COI editors. Creating straight in mainspace is the front door, so unless you didn't mention that this person is a COI editor, "slipped-in via the back door" isn't exactly a fair description of any article creation.

Fortunately, if this person is actually a novice, they won't have autopatrolled, so the article will be seen and judged by NPP eventually. If they are actually longstanding enough to have autopatrolled, that may be a concern if there is a pattern of them making poor articles in mainspace on a regular basis, but that's a different animal entirely.

Now, if by flag you mean a talk page template, I'm sure there is one somewhere, but I can tell you for a fact that almost any "longstanding" editor would be more offended than assisted by receiving such a template. I generally recommend speaking to people in human terms on their talk page when you have concerns about their behavior. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 17:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * ThanQ, ; "slipped-in via the back door" is perhaps a clumsy way of putting it. I was preoccupied by another situation, where in May/June 2022 a new bio has been established by a new SPA registration, a recreation from 2020 which was local-Talk redirected to section. This 2022 SPA knew where to find the redirect and as a supposedly-new editor create a complete new article, and was likely the master from the same 2020 socking-sequence (17 confirmed identities). The new registration claimed to have translated it from Dutch and Italian wikis. All three (En in 2020, followed by the two 2020 European articles extant since then) were created by the same person. So, a determination to have the article on En was achieved by the back door, claiming to be a translation from the European articles, and that the European articles existed vindicated filling the void on En.


 * Turning to the Teahouse post, the editor/author concerned (registered 2007, first edit 2008, not autopatrolled) has <200 on en wiki and mostly 2022. He has admitted - as a fan - by way of modern media, cold-soliciting from the subject much anecdotal info, then created a BLP by throwing in (I'm doing the clumsy again) three primary sources (at that time) which did/do not support the majority of the prose. Has also semi-self identified, IRL. I'm unsure what category Twitter is? Whether this would be included in social media. Pre-published images (since 2013, on two other platforms) have been third-party uploaded to Commons with more intended, as yet unseen so unsure if these are already published.


 * I have devoted a lot of time on the recent bio both on and off wiki, as it falls into my specialist field, and is, IMO, a net positive for the 'pedia despite, at best, only weakly/borderline satisfying various notability aspects (BLP1E would be countered by NSports, it could be argued) and, as it relates to past events only, has limited development potential. The author is seeking secondary/hard sources. Much time and interaction has occurred at article Talk and Commons in trying to guide the author through the requirements.


 * The same author created a similar basic-bio (the subject showing a big fan following online) and a few other bits in 2016, then a hiatus before jumping to late 2021.


 * Lastly, what I meant by flag; not a Talk page banner, but a script comparing edit-count and other factors such as date, that would launch a pop-up advising potential authors with limited edit count to consider AfC. I know of AfC as I have NPP editor Talk on watchlist, but I couldn't be sure when I first became aware of it. Apologies for the length.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:46, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You know, this would be a damn sight easier to parse if you'd just link the damn article. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:26, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * . Main article/Talk Carolynn Sells December 2021 to now, more talk at c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Carolynn Sells Podium.jpg, and comparison Patricia Fernandez (motorcyclist) stub 2016.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:00, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I feel like you're wildly overthinking things here. Both of the linked articles look like the kind of garden-variety crap sports stubs that were tolerated onwiki for years, almost always written by fans, which is exactly what Khaylock appears to be. If you don't believe the sourcing exists to substantiate notability for either person, take the article to AfD. If Khaylock persists in adding unverified or improperly verified information, talk to them about it; if that doesn't work, take them to ANI.
 * Also, none of this seems to be related at all to your entire first paragraph about translated articles created over redirects. I still have no idea what that's about. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

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I think I did a better job on my second try adding those facts!


AlBro66 (talk) 22:02, 4 October 2022 (UTC) <br style="clear: both;"/>

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