User talk:Roigfrma

Miguel Roig-Francolí
Hello there, and welcome to Wikipedia. Can I ask you why you removed some information and references from this article? You may have had good reasons for it, but you need to state them in an edit summary or on the article's talk page (Talk:Miguel Roig-Francolí). This is especially important if you are removing referenced material or references themselves as you did in this case. Voceditenore (talk) 15:01, 3 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Voceditenore. Thank you for all your excellent edits and additions to the page on myself--you've really gotten to the essentials of my bio and mi life, which is impressive for someone whom I suppose does not know me personally.  I took the liberty to remove a couple of things.  The reference to Jose Luis Tellez and his influence on me, alghouth correct, is really a minor episode in my biography, compared to the rest of the items that are included on this page.  It's important, but anecdotal.  I did not think it deserved such attention.  I also deleted references to two reviews of my books.  There are a few good reviews published, particularly of Harmony in Context.  The two you happen to have referred to are ones I don't agree with in many ways.  One of them I responded to in quite strong terms, because it showed substantial incompetence on the part of the reviewer.  If reviews are cited in my page, I would rather either it be ALL the reviews, including the excellent ones, and not just those that happen to be unfairly negative and actually misinformed.  But some of the best reviews are not available online (published in Journal of Music Theory Pedagogy).  In this situation, I would prefer not to have those two reviews cited in my page.  I thank you very much again for your excellent, careful, and very professional summary of my bio.  I was truly impressed and grateful for it. User:roigfrma
 * I'm glad you are pleased with result. I had never heard of you before, which is not a reflection on you, but on me (I specialise in 19th century Italian opera). I happened on this article by accident while monitoring a list of recently created articles . It had been tagged for lack of notability and insufficient sources, and I decided to "rescue" it. Anyhow, your explanations seem reasonable to me—just make sure you always leave edit summaries or explanations on the article's talk page when you make significant changes, deletions or additions. This is especially important when editing an article about yourself. You'll find more advice about that here. I've just created an article on your teacher as well (Miguel Ángel Coria). By the way, avoid removing red links on notable subjects as you had done with Coria in your article. They are one of the key ways in which Wikipedia is expanded—editors with an interest in a particular subject see red links and very often create articles for them. You'll see several red links in the Coria article—Wikipedia's coverage of contemporary Spanish classical music is pretty inadequate, alas! If I can be of further help. just let me know. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 13:01, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Dear Voceditenore: Thank you for your response. The guidelines about autobiographies and self-edits make total sense. Indeed, it did not occur to me to write my autobiography. A student of mine started my page, but has been slow at completing it. Your very capable rescue has been very opportune and welcome. Thank you also for your procedural comments. As you know, I'm not only new to Wikipedia, but quite ignorant about procedures, although what I'm finding out is quite simple and logical (for instance, the red terms). Thank you also for the excellent entry on Miguel A. Coria, it's very accurate and fair, and he deserves it. I wonder if, to cap off my bio, you'd be willing to add the following, if you think it's appropriate: Roig-Francolí has been credited, along with his teacher Miguel A. Coria, for introducing post-modernism in Spain in the early 1980s. Musicologist Antoni Pizà writes: "The composition [Five Pieces for Orchestra] was an absolute pioneer of the new aesthetic winds of the international musical stage of the 20th century, of that which, with time, everyone would end up accepting as a fait accompli: musical postmodernism. [Aesthetics such as minimalism and neoromanticism] had something in common: they were again accepting tonality as a basic prime material of music, they were all postmodern. Roig-Francolí has the virtue of having had the intuition of this artistic trend, and, in consequence, of having introduced it in Spain." The source for this citation is this article by Pizà (scroll down to p. 37): http://medias.diariodeibiza.es/suplementos/2010-12-03_SUP_2010-11-26_23_39_01_miranda.pdf If you want to cite the original catalan text in the footnote, here it is: "L’obra era una composició absolutament pionera dels nous vents estètics del panorama internacional de la música del s. XX, d’allò que, amb el temps, tothom acabaria acceptant com un fait accompli: la postmodernitat musical. (...) [estètiques com el minimalisme i el neoromanticisme] tenien en comú una cosa: tornaven a acceptar la tonalitat com a matèria prima bàsica de la música: tots eren postmoderns. Roig-Francol té la virtut d’haver intuït aquest ambient artístic i, en conseqüència, haver-lo introduït a Espanya." A possible place to include this might be right before the sentence "After 1987, he concentrated primarily on his academic research and teaching" towards the middle of the second "Life and career" paragraph, but you may find a better place. Here are also some futher good links, in case you think it would be useful to include them as sources: http://www.uc.edu/news/NR.aspx?id=12764 http://www.diariodeibiza.es/pitiuses-balears/2010/10/14/roig-francoli-lleva-canciones-infinito-nueva-york/438827.html http://brookcenter.gc.cuny.edu/carnegie-hall-to-present-%E2%80%9Csongs-of-the-infinite%E2%80%9D-by-miquel-a-roig-francoli-the-2010-foundation-for-iberian-music-composer%E2%80%99s-commission/ Again, thank you so much for your excellent work with my bio and for your communications with me. Best wishes, user talk:roigfrma


 * Hi. I figured the article had probably been started by one of your students, many articles on academics are. Although they had missed out on the need for independent sourcing to establish notability (a problem for most new editors), they managed the Wiki syntax quite well, used a personal sandbox to work on the article first, and at least provided some references. Re the additional material, I have added a very brief bit of Pizà's quote specifically with respect to Five Pieces for Orchestra:
 * After winning the 1981 National Composition Competition of the Spanish Jeunesses Musicales, it was premiered by the Spanish Radio and Television Symphony Orchestra at Madrid's Teatro Real in 1982, and subsequently won second prize at the UNESCO International Rostrum of Composers (Paris, 1982). The work, described by musicologist Antoni Pizà as an "absolute pioneer" in introducing the postmodern aesthetic to Spanish music,[6] has since been performed in Spain by the Orquesta Nacional de España...
 * The version you proposed is unwieldy, overly long and flowery, contains too many interpolated terms in brackets, and doesn't mention Coria at all. I think more importantly, it gives undue weight to one writer's opinion (in what is essentially a newspaper article) with respect to a very big claim. It would detract from the article rather than enhance it, and in my experience can lead to other editors adding less than complimentary material to balance something like that. I've incorporated most of the other links you've provided into the references, but the UC press release about the ballet is pretty superfluous and like all press releases, is not an independent source, nor a particularly neutral one. It might be OK in the External links section. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 12:28, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * PS This page has help on how to sign talk page comments on Wikipedia. Voceditenore (talk) 12:28, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Voceditenore, what you write makes sense, and I think your one-line addidion is very appropriate and indeed does not incur in the pitfalls the longer version would lead to. Ha, I appreciate your editorial talent and skill, that was what I would call trimming fat! At this point I find my entry quite accurate, satisfactory, and complete. Again, my gratitude for your work, and my best wishes. (User talk:roigfrma)

Sorry, just one more thing: the link in footnote 6 (Pizà's article) seems to be dead, at least from my computer. Thanks. (User talk:roigfrma)
 * I thought the link was dead too at first. But it appears that the site won't allow access from Wikipedia's servers. If you paste the url into a new window, it works. I'll leave a note about that on the talk page. Best. Voceditenore (talk) 15:31, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

OK, I see. Great, thank you again. (User talk:roigfrma)