User talk:Rojerts

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Holy of Holies
Suggest you make a merge request using WP:MERGE and have the community comment on whether there should be a single article or multiple ones. Best, --Shirahadasha 23:40, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Most Holy Place
Sorry about that. - RoyBoy 800 16:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Sacred Grove article
Thanks for filling-out the Sacred Grove article. It was very much needed.  CO GD EN  23:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course. I do hope that you will look it over and edit where needed. I wasn't sure at what point you distinguish between this and the First Vision article. I do feel that they need to be separate articles, and I think a little overlap is necessary.--Rojerts 00:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Sacred Grove.jpg
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Most Holy Place
Hello, the editors responded to the merge requests made in October by deciding to make this article refer to the general concept of a particularly sacred space as it manifests in various religions. Given this decision, a paragraph focusing on a particular religion would appear to be appropriate for the section on that religion or a disambig section, but not the introduction. Best, --Shirahadasha 23:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps there could be a disambig at the top, of a form similar to:

For the term "Most Holy Place" as used in the King James Bible, see Holy of Holies

Best, --Shirahadasha 01:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Seer Stones and the Latter Day Saint Movement
Thanks for the quick action on fixing the page! You've got the wrong man, though. I haven't done any edits as an unregistered user. My edit only added a small phrase that clarifies Joseph Smith's claim to have translated the Book of Mormon (the phrase "completion of" seemed a little ambiguous to me, so I changed it to "completion of the translation of"). I agree that the focus of the article should include all seer stones related to the Latter Day Saint movement (as the title suggests), not just the U&T. Chiros Sunrider 21:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


 * My bad. Please forgive my misreading of the article's history section.  I confused your good edit with the one done by the unregistered user just before you.  Sorry, --Rojerts 23:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it. It's an easy mistake to make. Chiros Sunrider 02:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Holy of Holies (LDS)
Thank you for correcting my contribution on Holy of Holies. I suppose I should have actually read the linked article before I submitted corrections. Josh3580 13:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No worries on that article. Regards, --Rojerts 03:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Inquiry regarding Mormonism Attitudes

 * Living in Utah, Salt Lake City, I see some pretty "out-there" remarks for the local communities. There certainly is a lot of individual controversy over the topic, but I do believe that as a Religious body, it is accepted that a member/former-member is valid and can remain an active member of the LDS faith, inasmuch as he/she does not actively engage in homosexual behavior or gay-culture.  There are different and divided beliefs on the nature and future of attitudes towards homosexuals in the LDS congregation itself.
 * Homosexuality in general, my understanding is that the LDS Church does not condone nor tolerate the behavior and believes it to be a sin against God and the mission of the members; to procreate and bring forth a family. The idea that "Families Can be forever together" is a very integrated philosophy in LDS faith. As you likely know, you can look up specific articles as published by the LDS church and publications of speakers during LDS conference (held twice a year), at the home page of the LDS church. URL:  Latter-Day-Saint website complete with repositories of "Spoken Word", archives of journals of modern day Prophets, et. al.
 * I have no citations for this, and I'm glad that this is only a Talks page, but it is also my understanding that in the early 70's late 60's, the LDS Church embraced (mostly at BYU) the therapy of ECT (Electro-Convulsive Treatment) for students who self-reported, or were identified as homosexuals. This of course was not a unique methodology in "treatment" of homosexuality. It was a nationally accepted practice in the treatment of Homosexuality as defined in the then version of DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for mental disorders/disease).
 * Even up to 10 years ago, BYU was very intolerant of homosexuality within their student population, or within the student wards. Third-party Identification, or self-identification almost always resulted in dis-fellowship or even excommunication.
 * Today those standards have changed within the LDS church and at BYU and BYU student wards. My Stake President (a very good friend/almost-family-member) of mine, is always up to date and well versed on attitudes and Disciplinary actions for most if not all LDS official stances and current appropriate action or no action. From what I understand, the Presidency of the LDS church has made official announcements at the Conference pulpit regarding stance and treatment of LDS members "struggling" with homosexuality (to love them individually, but to not tolerate any deviance of the member) versus active persons in gay-culture or who practice homosexuality.
 * I don't have citations for this, but as I said. These talks, sermons, publications and discourses can be found in archive or repository at the LDS website. There is, of course, a search engine for specific content, articles, publications or speakers. This is as much as I know, partly because while in the Marine Corps I had a good friend, at the time, who was LDS and homosexual. Double whammy. LDS standards and Military standards. Good Luck on your research.
 * You might also find additional information with the "?Green Peace?" (I think) movement or society, mostly based in Utah. It is a group (My stake president tells me he has had to refer members to this organization by their request) a group that practice a form of therapy called, "Reparitive Therapy" in which the attempt is made to... I'm not really sure what they do. I think it has something to do with "curing" homosexuality. Anyway, having worked in Psych. & Social Work for the past 12 yrs. I understand that the philosophies and practices are not standard or recognized by mental health communities.

Hope this helps with direction
feel free to contact me, although this is the extent of my knowledge regarding Mormonism and Homosexuality. [mailto:jerry.zambrano@hotmail.com Jerry Zambrano-LDS] Jerry.zambrano 08:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Holy of Holies
From Talk:Most Holy Place:
 * in fact, each religion mentioned in Holy of Holies is appropriately placed there.

Is it? I asked for cites. This is a construction peculiar to Semitic languages, and the only times we find it in an Indo-European language is in translation. This, although we see in the Greek "ἁγίου τῶν ἁγίων", it's not a native expression but a literal rendering of the Hebrew. It would be so surprising to find a cognate expression in Hindi that I'm afraid I can't quite believe you without a reference, which is why I asked for one. I am perfectly prepared to believe that some native Hindi expression is sometimes translated "Holy of Holies" because the translator believes the terms correspond, but it would be very strange if that was the literal meaning of the words. I tend to dislike this procedure since translators often have nothing more than a very shallow theological understanding, and most often the terms do not really correspond from the POV of either religion. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I claim no expertise in Hindi.


 * That said, I am certainly not the first to use the term Holy of Holies in conjunction with the inner sanctuary of Hindu temples. See Trevor Barne's Hinduism And Other Eastern Religions: Worship, Festivals, and Ceremonies.  In it he states: "Worship is also carried out in the temple (mandir) under the supervision of a high-caste priest, or Brahmin.  Although Hindus believe that their god is everywhere, they also believe that the temple is his special home.  Only the priest is allowed to come close to the divine presence which 'resides' in the inner sanctuary of the building, in the holy of holies known as the barbhagriha (womb house)" (page 16, bold mine).


 * Now, I understand the caution in saying that "womb house" is a cognate to the original idiom now rendered "holy of holies" in English. Linguistics aside, the two, however, are conceptually, theologically, and architecturally cognate in the sense that they are "allied or similar in nature or quality"(definition 3). In the US, Hindu temples often include a panoply of gods, but in India the temples are ultimately devoted to one particular god, which is housed in the inner sanctuary--the most sacred space within a sacred space.


 * Having a "most sacred space" within sacred space overall, devoted to the presence of one god, and with limited access by only the priest of the priests, falls within the very definition of a holy of holies. The Jews were not the first to employ this type of cosmic journey in their architecture, but also the Egyptians and others.  Hence, validity as a "true" holy of holies does not depend upon linguistic connections to Hebrew or a theological genealogy traceable to the Tabernacle or Temple in Jerusalem.


 * And so, it is quite common for religion scholars to employ an English rendition of a Hebrew idiom, "holy of holies", to describe a feature of Hindu and other temples. Regards, --Rojerts 02:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

LatterDay wiki
Would you be interested in a LDS wiki? The LatterDay Wikia] -- 01:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Matoro183,
 * What would be the advantage of having another wiki when MormonWikiand Wikipedia in general already exist? Not to discourage getting correct information out--because I'm all for that--but I'm curious about the advantages and/or benefits of your project.  Cheers, --Rojerts (talk) 01:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Help please
Hello Elder! Can you constructively help me with this? I am slightly completely unprepared for it. I got the first question by my self, then the tough question that I don't know the answers to came, so that is why I need help... Thanks for your help! Sincerely, Sir Intellegence - smartr tahn eaver!!!! 20:39, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

File:Trees in the Sacred Grove.jpg
I wanted to let you know I placed a "wrong license" on the photo File:Trees in the Sacred Grove.jpg. Basically, because the Flickr page where the photo comes from has a copyright notice on it, "All rights reserved", we have to assume that is in full force even though the file has been on Wikipedia almost 4 years now and the photographer may very well have told you it was OK to use on Wikipedia (see WP:PERMISSION). There is an e-mail process to release the photograph to Wikipedia, but generally it's better to just use an actual public-domain image or have the photographer change the copyright settings on Flickr. More info is at WP:PERMISSION. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:50, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

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