User talk:Rolgn

Is Russia a federation or not?
Let's start with this and then move on to unitary. The article Federation says, "Since 2004, governors of each region, who were previously elected by popular vote, have been appointed by local parliaments upon the proposals by the President of Russia." By "regions" it is presumably meant "oblasts" and "krais" (we still need a reference for the 2004 legislation). But what about the "republics" that are part of the RF? Tatarstan, Mari-El, and all the rest? Are the "presidents" of these republics also appointed by Putin, or do we have elections there? If elections, then this is a federation. Let me know what you think. --Zlerman (talk) 15:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Russia is not a federation in the strictest sense
Yes Zlerman I have found out several things in the BBC World News Website. The leaders of the Republics are now appointed by the President. I believe that you should look at the country profiles and then look at the Republics of Chechnya and Ingushetia you will find out that the Presidents of both republics Ramzan Kadyrov and Yunus-Bek Yevkorov were appointed respectivly in February 2007 and November 2008. Also the Presidents of the republics of Karbindo-Balkaria and North Ossetia were all appointed by the Russian President. This Zlerman proves that Russia is not really a federation at all. Since all of the heads of the regions, including the Republics are now appointed by the President, the country has now reverted back to the unitary system and I think that the maps of the Federations and Unitary States has to be radically altered greatly. Thank you. --Rolgn (talk) 10:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Russia has 21 republics!
Please see the page Republics of Russia: there are 21 "federal subjects" on this list. To make a proper claim, you need to check all 21, not just 4. Now, even if the situation makes Russia "not a federation in the strictest sense" (with which I agree), does "not in the strictest sense" make Russia a unitary state? I don't think so. If there are republics among the 21 with their own constitutions, their own legislature, and their own elected presidents, then Russia is not a unitary state.

When we are done with this discussion, you will need to insert a proper reference in the federation article regarding the 2004 procedure that allows Putin to nominate oblast/krai governors. This is very important. BBC country profiles will not do. And the reference given in the article is useless.

Incidentally, my comment about "disruptive editing" was not aimed at you: it was aimed at anon who -- after your edit -- duplicated half the list of unitary countries just for fun. I am sorry if you took it to be directed at you. I disagree with your edits in this case, but they are definitely not disruptive. --Zlerman (talk) 15:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Russia is really not that Federal at all
Yes Zlerman I had looked up the 21 Republics of Russia already and I had found out that each of the heads of the executive authority meaning the Presidents of the Republics are now appointed by the President of Russia and are confirmed by the parliaments of the Republics. If the legislature rejects this three times that means that a new election has to be held in the Republic and the parliament has to be dissolved. In a Federal system each of the heads of the regions or states are elected not appointed. This proves that Russia is really not a Federation and it may be a unitary system. Because only in a unitary system Zlerman can the national government appoint the heads of the regional and even local governments. Also I am very glad that you didn't find my edits very disruptive at all. Thank you. --Rolgn (talk) 11:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you please list the sources that you have found in support of your thinking? Thanks. --Zlerman (talk) 17:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Russia is becoming more centralized
I had looked up each of the Republics of Russia and I have found out that each of them have Presidents. But since the beginning of 2005 when President Putin had abolished the election of regional leaders all of the Presidents of these Republics have been appointed by the President of Russia. If you Zlerman would look up the Republics of Russia you will find out that since Putin and his successor have now appointed the Presidents of the Republics that means that Russia cannot be considered a federation. I believe that it is more of a unitary state as far as that is concerned. ==Rolgn (talk) 12:29, 2 Decmeber 2008 (UTC)
 * (a) As I wrote in my last message above, it would be very helpful if you could provide authoritative sources (outside Wikipedia) regarding the change that Putin introduced in 2004 in the election of regional governors and republic presidents. Was there a law or a presidential decree that introduced the new procedure? It is very important to document this.
 * (b) As to whether or not Russia is a unitary state, we have to go by the Russian Constitution, which definitely says "federal state" and devotes whole chapters to the description of the federal system. I don't think that the definition of unitary state depends on whether the head of state is elected in a direct popular election or by parliament (after being nominated by somebody). I will check into this point. --Zlerman (talk) 18:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Putin had in fact signed such a law already
I had found out that Vladimir Putin in fact signed a law that made sure that all regional governors and republic presidents were from now on to be appointed by the President of Russia. This law is already here on Vladimir Putin legislation and program. The law was signed on December 11, 2004. It made sure that all of the heads of the Federal Subjects of Russia were to be appointed by the President of Russia and confirmed by the legislative bodies of the Republics and regions of Russia. This proves my point that Russia is not a federation in the strictest sense. --Rolgn (talk) 13:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Now please try to find this actual law on the web (at least in Russian) and provide its URL. Circular references from one Wiki article to another are not acceptable for purposes of sourcing. [DONE --Zlerman (talk) 06:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)]. Please bear in mind, however, that even this law does not deprive RF of the status of a federation: formally we have to go by the Constitution -- but we can add any amount of reservations and qualifications in the body of the text (as you have already done). We are writing an encyclopedia that is supposed to reflect all facts in a balanced and NPOV way. --Zlerman (talk) 01:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Unitary state: Wikipedia definition
Here is the first sentence from Unitary state: "A unitary state is a state whose three organs of state are governed constitutionally as one single unit, with one constitutionally created legislature." This is obviously not the case for Russia, where each federal subject has its own popularly elected legislature and where the constitution defines the country as a federation. I do not want this to develop into an edit war, so please go back to the article and yourself remove Russia from the list of unitary states. Thank you. --Zlerman (talk) 14:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)