User talk:Roman Spinner/Archive 7 (2018 and 2019)

Happy New Year, Roman Spinner!


Happy New Year! Roman Spinner, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

– Davey 2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 00:34, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.


 * How kind of you, Davey2010 — I am most appreciative and send you my best New Year's wishes. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 03:43, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Is "pączki" an English word?
Hi, thank you for your participation in the recent requested move discussion at Talk:Pączki. I've posted a follow-up question to better understand what the result of that discussion means not only for the article's title, but also for its content. I'd be very greatful, if you could reply at Talk:Pączki — Kpalion(talk) 18:03, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Matt Smith (comics)
Hi, I saw on the talk page and I was thinking of moving it to your suggest name but also could move to the other name suggested. Shall I? Artix Kreiger (talk) 04:00, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You are certainly welcome to cast a vote indicating your preference, but since the requested move has not yet closed, let us wait to find out what the consensus will turn out to be. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 06:38, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

February 21: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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March 21: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Please change your signature ...
... or at least archive your talk page. Including a "(contribs)" link in your sig at actually links to your talk page would likely be almost universally seen as disruptive, even if you didn't currently have a talk page that was more than 500kB that took my iPad's Safari well over a minute to load. 's is significantly longer, but that fact is well known among the community (indeed making fun of its size is quite a popular meme) and he doesn't have a signature that includes an easter egg link to it. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 08:32, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * My appreciation for your taking the time to post regarding this matter. Having created the signature around the time of my initial Wikipedia edit in January 2006 and not examining it since then, I did not even realize that there was anything amiss until power~enwiki mentioned it in a comment at another venue on March 2. I intended to repair the signature at that point, but neglected to do so immediately. Thank to your reminder, I have just done so. Archiving portions of the talk page is also under consideration. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:58, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

CANCELLED: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Hello (and the Falcon)
Hello, and I hope all goes well. It's always good to meet you in the RM arrondissement. Wanted to ask, if you have a few minutes would you please check out my new talk page section of The Maltese Falcon (1941 film). I won't say what it's about, but I think your thoughts and comments might be interesting. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:04, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Each of your visits to my talk page is indeed a pleasure and I enjoyed your giving justly due credit to Pete the Pup at Dogs Is Dogs. As for "the stuff that dreams are made of", I perused the various "Black Bird" articles last Fourth of July and created The Maltese Falcon (1936 film) as a redirect to Satan Met a Lady so that the 1936 version would be also included on The Maltese Falcon dab page, but neglected to append that redirect there until you reminded me of it just now. Your posting at The Maltese Falcon (1941 film) definitely mentions points waiting to be discussed and I will add comments there as well.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:42, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Wiki Loves Food
Hello! After the successful pilot program by Wikimedia India in 2015, Wiki Loves Food (WLF) is happening again in 2018 and this year, it's  going International. To make this event a grand success, your direction is key. Please sign up here as a volunteer to bring all the world's food to Wikimedia. Danidamiobi (talk) 21:43, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your positive contribution on WP!
Hi Roman Spinner. Came here after reading Talk:Kiev/naming - and just wanted to show my appreciation for your ability to intelligently discuss the issue related to Kyiv/Kiev naming. Given the sheer amount of negative attitude towards Ukraine of a large number of English Wikipedia editors (which makes their edits questionable from the perspective of WP:Neutrality]] it's very refreshing to see someone be able to respond to such editors with intelligent, academic arguments. Thank you!--Piznajko (talk) 14:55, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Piznajko. It was most kind of you to take the time for such a considerate posting. It is indeed a change which has been a long time coming — requests on this subject hearken back to Wikipedia's early years (Talk:Kiev/Naming issue Archive01 — March 8, 2003) and will undoubtedly succeed — sooner rather than later. In the meantime, there are smaller attempts, such as the one here — Talk:Sverdlovsk, Luhansk Oblast. So far the nomination is flying under the radar, but may ultimately suffer the same fate as Talk:Kirovsk, Luhansk Oblast.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:36, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Request for help in salvaging content in Symon Petliura article
Hi Mr. Spinner. Given your extensive knowledge of Ukraine and its history (based on your recent edits), I thought you might be able to help restore some of the deleted information on the article Symon Petliura. Specifically, within the last two weeks, one of the editors (under the pretext of "eliminating repetition") has significantly shortened the article, removing important historical details about Petliura's involvement in pogroms (specifically historical details previously present in the article by such prominent scholars as Volodymyr Serhiychuk, Orest Subtelny etc.) that help the reader better understand the issue. I'm humbly asking if you could help, to the best of your abilities/knowledge, to restore some of those sources/details that were recently removed in the last 2 weeks. Thank you!--Piznajko (talk) 03:13, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you Piznajko for bringing this matter to my attention. During the weekend I will examine the Petliura article as well as its accompanying talk page and contribute towards resolving any controversy regarding disputed or deleted content.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 05:19, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, will be highly grateful for help in salvaging useful encyclopedic material that was recently removed from the article!--Piznajko (talk) 01:18, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

May 23: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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== June 20: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC (and Pratt Women Wikipedia Design this Saturday June 16) ==

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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ira Brad Matetsky
I notice that you have sporadic and dated experience with AfD. Your agreement with consensus is even worse than mine (your 59% versus my 66%), which is saying something since I'm really strict on adherence to criteria. My suggestion to you is rather than offer an opinion of what outcome you prefer, instead apply the criteria the community agrees upon. Often at AfD, !votes lacking a basis in policy will be disregarded by the closer, which makes your words pretty ineffectual. !votes ought to be persuasive and claiming that Newyorkbrad is a good editor and we therefore ought to let him have an article like it's an achievement award isn't compelling. Maybe you and others like reading about Newyorkbrad. I don't care one way or the other. I voted for the guy in the past ARBCOM elections but he's just not notable. Allowing an article like that calls into question our notability criteria and we'd end up with a bunch of other articles without enough sources to be fair or complete, which is why we can't introduce a double standard for editors we like. I knew User:Wadewitz personally, as she was a fixture in the Los Angeles Wikipedia community when I was a student in LA. Just the same, I !voted to delete the article about her because she's not notable and the coverage that exists was a WMF-instigated journalistic flash in the pan. In closing, I spend most of my time on Wikipedia chasing editors away or convincing others that they need to stop tilting at windmills. I don't have anything against you and I hope we can find some common ground and come to an understanding, rather than be confrontational. Chris Troutman ( talk ) 04:07, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Thursday July 12: Wiki Loves Pride Edit-a-thon @ Jefferson Market Library
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Sunday July 29: Annual Wiki-Picnic @ Prospect Park
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Disambiguation/redirect question
Hi Roman Spinner, thank you for clearing up my error about moving vs. overwriting at the discussion on Talk:Nancy Drew and the Hidden Staircase (film). Your comments made me remember that I have made the same mistake on a few other pages, so I want to self-revert and do it properly. I'd appreciate your help in making sure I get it right this time.

Oscillation theory (geology) struck me as an incomplete disambiguation, and there is an article at Oscillation theory, so I created Oscillation theory (disambiguation) and made Oscillation theory (geology) a redirect. However, Oscillation theory (geology) has a page history. I now think that it would have been better to move Oscillation theory (geology) to Oscillation theory (disambiguation). Is that correct?

Another page is Premier (automobile). I simply changed it to a redirect because its few items are already present on Premier (disambiguation), and I didn't think the small number of automobiles on the list really warranted a separate disambiguation page. However, Premier (automobile) has a page history and I don't know what page move could have saved that history.

Thanks for your help, Leschnei (talk) 01:54, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your posting and am always glad to offer whatever advice I am capable of supplying. As a general rule, it is always best to preserve revision history by performing moves rather than transferring contents. If there is no clearly evident main title header, alternative disambiguation form, alternative content form, or if a move is challenged, then, of course, the matter would need to be sorted out at WP:RM.
 * Regarding Oscillation theory (geology), you are correct that the advisable course of action would have been a move to Oscillation theory (disambiguation), thus preserving its (admittedly very minor) revision history, with Oscillation theory (geology) then automatically becoming a redirect to that dab page. While we could go through the actions of saving the contents of Oscillation theory (disambiguation), having it deleted, then moving the redirect Oscillation theory (geology) to Oscillation theory (disambiguation) and then restoring the dab page's saved contents, it may be sufficient to leave matters in their current state, while moving Talk:Oscillation theory (geology) in place of the redlink Talk:Oscillation theory (disambiguation) and adding, below the "WP Geology" template, the "DisambigProject" template.
 * As for Premier (automobile), you did what needed to be done. Unnecessarily over-detailed dab pages are usually merged into more-general dab pages, with the over-detailed dab page becoming a redirect to the more-general dab page and the redirect's revision history still accessible. Since the redirect's talk page, Talk:Premier (automobile), has no other content, it can be cleared of its "WikiProject Automobiles" template (or, alternatively, that template may remain), and the redirect talk page, itself, redirected to Talk:Premier (disambiguation). Ultimately, the redirect talk page may be, at some point, deleted.
 * If any uncertainties remain, I will be happy to assist.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:59, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks very clear, thank you. I'll make the talk page changes you suggested and look through the few other redirects that I changed to see what needs cleaning up. Sadly I learn better by making mistakes and then cleaning them up, rather than remembering instructions that I have read ahead of time!
 * I have moved a few articles and their talk pages together but never just a talk page. Is the process the same (I use Twinkle)? Thanks again, Leschnei (talk) 12:09, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Glad to have been of help. When a page is moved, its talk page is automatically also moved, unless the editor removes the check mark from the box "Move associated talk page". Moving a talk page, by itself, follows the same procedure as moving an article page.
 * As for Talk:Oscillation theory (geology) and Talk:Premier (automobile), since those are only intended to be redirects to disambiguation talk pages and thus are ultimately eligible for deletion, there is no need for the "DisambigProject" template on either one. Those templates can be replaced with #REDIRECTTalk:Oscillation theory (disambiguation) and #REDIRECTTalk:Premier (disambiguation), respectively.
 * If there are any other queries, I will be always glad to contribute whatever advice I can.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:01, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks again, Leschnei (talk) 17:57, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

August 29: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Discretionary sanction alert
--Ymblanter (talk) 12:40, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the boilerplate, but I have not "recently shown interest in Eastern Europe" and, in fact, have rarely edited any articles on the subject.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 12:44, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

September 26: WikiWednesday Salon / Wikimedia NYC Annual Meeting
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Cast section of Home Alone and your formats in the cast sections of film articles
Your edit on the cast section of Home Alone was poorly constructed and the brackets are totally unnecessary. So, I have to clean up another one of your messes on the cast section of film articles. I gonna tell you right now. You are gonna stop experimenting the cast sections of the films articles itself and you either experiment them on sandboxes or stop doing that all in once. Because I'm getting tired of cleaning up your messes on those articles that don't need that kind of thing to happen. BattleshipMan (talk) 04:23, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I regret that you found fault with my edit. I am uncertain, though, whether you mean that my edit was 1) "poorly constructed" and 2) "the brackets are totally unnecessary" or whether you mean that my edit was "poorly constructed" in that "the brackets are totally unnecessary". If you mean the former, then I fail to see what the alleged poor construction was since all you did was to remove the brackets, not to reconstruct the cast list. If you mean the latter, basing your entire complaint upon the insertion of the brackets, then I direct your attention to the on-screen credits of the film itself which contain solely the character names and not the character descriptions which belong in the "Plot" section, not in the "Cast" section. In adding the brackets, I was merely attempting to accomodate a previous editor's expanded character descriptions while still retaining outside the brackets the character names in the exact form that those appear on screen. Since you feel that such an approach represents "experimenting" which causes your "getting tired of cleaning up your [my] messes", I will delete the expanded character descriptions and return the cast list to its on-screen form. I hope this will prove satisfactory.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 05:20, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You do not get to put brackets the way you did in that article, like how you the given name with a bracket before McCallister, which is poorly constructed. For example, how you put Kevin with a bracket before the surname [McCallister, which is not constructive. BattleshipMan (talk) 03:30, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * As Betty Logan pointed out here, even AFI Catalog incorporates brackets into cast lists. However, since there is opposition to such use of brackets, in addition to the fact that Wikipedia cast lists use Wikipedia's own style, rather than borrow stylistic forms from other sources, it would be obviously counterproductive on my part to use brackets in future cast lists.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:53, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

== Sun October 14: Open House New York Weekend Upload Party @ NYU ITP and Indigenous People's Justice Edit-a-thon @ Interference Archive == (You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

October 24: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Sunday Oct 28: Wikidata Birthday Party
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Move review for Nanjing Massacre
An editor has asked for a Move review of Nanjing Massacre. Because you were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review. STSC (talk) 19:14, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Opinion needed
Hello. Would you be interested to say your opinion about the issue raised here — Talk:List of heads of state of Angola? Thanks in advance. --Sundostund (talk) 02:57, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

I can not send you a message
Hi, what tool should we use?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev/naming#All_the_same_editors_oppose_the_change._Time_to_bring_it_to_Wiki_resolution_team_as_some_members_use_admin_rights_to_own_political_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution — Preceding unsigned comment added by Constantinehuk (talk • contribs) 08:41, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It is an intractable discussion which has been ongoing since Wikipedia's founding in January 2001. We cannot be among the pioneers in the use of "Kyiv" because we have a consensus-based model and no resolution team can impose a decree in a linguistically international matter of this nature. Ultimately, it is all a matter of time. There is no doubt that the majority of English-language sources will be (soon?) using "Kyiv" in the same manner as "Beijing", "Mumbai" or "Kolkata". Until then, I can only counsel patience.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:35, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * But who decides? What criteria are used? Too many offensive words (and suppressed discussions) from our opponents and too little facts. We need to present objective metrics to an unbiased jury. Constantinehuk (talk) 15:22, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You know the circumstances as well as I do. There are some hot-button topics, such as the lengthy Meghan Markle/Meghan, Duchess of Sussex discussion or Wikipedia's own controversies over admin nominations or admin noticeboards that can attract virtually the entire active Wikipedia community. However, as we have seen over the numerous discussions documented in the Kyiv archives, these naming arguments have recently tended to attract the same six to twelve contributors whose previously-stated views have been restated in each subsequent discussion.
 * In fact, the ten archived voting sessions listed at Talk:Kiev show that five of those ended as "no consensus", but that the last three, in 2013, 2017 and 2018, ended as "Snow/Snowball, not moved", with most of those in favor of "Kyiv" no longer contributing, while those favoring the retention of "Kiev" still holding fast.
 * Since the city name forms Beijing, Mumbai and Kolkata were adopted into general usage before the advent of Wikipedia, these cannot be used as examples of how many years it may take for such adoption by Wikipedia consensus. Although it seems likely that "Kyiv" is already being used by a sufficient number of reliable sources for it to become the main title header of the city's Wikipedia article, the issue of "Kyiv"/"Kiev", unlike the names "Beijing", "Mumbai" or "Kolkata", is inextricably intertwined with linguistic conflict, nationalism and international power politics, thus signaling lack of consensus and opposition for the foreseeable future.
 * As to your questions, it is consensus that decides using the criteria inherent in each contributor's arguments. Wikipedia does not have a Supreme Court that can invalidate consensus and even Jimbo Wales was overruled when he unilaterally moved Meghan Markle. Since Kyiv is a major European capital, this has been continuing as one of Wikipedia's longest-running unresolved disputes and those discussions that are not structured as requested moves tend to be quickly closed because they have to be considered as disruptive by attracting invective and inflamed emotions.
 * Again, while there is no doubt that "Kyiv" will ultimately become the predominant form in the English-speaking world in the same manner as "Beijing", "Mumbai" or "Kolkata", Wikipedia is not likely to be in the forefront of such change and opponents will continue pointing to last-ditch holdouts as examples that the form "Kyiv" has not been universally accepted. Unlike Miami Herald, where the use of "Kyiv" is no doubt due to its Ukrainian-surnamed president and publisher Alexandra Villoch, Wikipedia does not have a comparable top-down structure. Presentation of "objective metrics to an unbiased jury" which, on Wikipedia, could only refer to ArbCom, also could not succeed under the currently prevailing circumstances.
 * Time is indisputably on the side of Kyiv and, while the process of name acceptance may be accelerated by some unforeseen events in that region, nothing more can be done on Wikipedia but be patient and continue contributing on the subject when the need arises.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:30, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

December 19: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Merry Merry

 * My thanks for your thoughtfulness. I am grateful to receive my first and, so far, only Christmas card.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 05:16, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

 * Your card is much appreciated. I thank you for remembering me at Christmas and am especially grateful for your kindness last March.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:19, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :), Have a great Crimbo & New Year, Thanks, – Davey 2010 Merry Christmas / Happy New Year 15:34, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * And my thanks, once again, flow back to you.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Xmas

 * 2018 XMAS.pdf FWiW Bzuk (talk) 00:27, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

I am thankful for the remembrance and for your kindness in sending it. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Roman Spinner!


Happy New Year! Roman Spinner, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

– Davey 2010 Merry Christmas / Happy New Year 23:33, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.


 * You just brightened my New Year's Day evening, Davey2010 and I am grateful for it. It is always a pleasure to communicate with you and I too send my very best thoughts to you.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:53, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year!
Right back at 'ya! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 00:56, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 * As at Christmas, I am thankful for your greetings on New Year's.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:09, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

January 13: Wikimedia NYC invites you to Wikipedia Day 2019
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Your post to Requested moves/Lead
Hey Roman Spinner. Please see my edit summary here. In short, that is not the correct location (or way) to make a request to revert an undiscussed move. However, I said in the edit summary that I was going to move your post to the correct location, WP:RM/TR, but after going there to do so I realized that I couldn't simply copy and paste your request text there. Rather, were I to follow the instructions there (which are commented out; they are only seen in edit mode, after you click edit), would require me to modify your post, to place it inside RMassist and so forth, and I would never intentionally modify another user's post, so I leave it up to you. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:28, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * My appreciation for your kind posting Fuhghettaboutit and for attending to this issue. On a number of previous occasions, I had asked in a standard manner for undiscussed moves to be reverted, but today, while distracted with other concerns, I did not do it correctly and will now make a properly placed request. My thanks, once again, for your help.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:24, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

William Russell
Hi, when you do, please don't forget to fix up the incoming links which were intended to go to the page about the actor, but following your edit went to the dab page instead. I've [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Redrose64?limit=175&offset=20190209013500 fixed 175 of them]. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 01:38, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * My apologies and thank you for the time and effort you devoted in manually and exhaustively disambiguating such a large-scale list of entries, including numerous portals, user pages, talk pages and drafts which, under standard circumstances, would have remained undisambiguated under the redirect William Russell (actor), as well as for properly assigning film title entries belonging to William Russell (English actor) and William Russell (American actor), both of whom had credits commingled under William Russell (actor).
 * Before having to step away from my iMac on an urgent matter (which took longer than expected), I managed to disambiguate links in only a handful of entries (The Gay Dog, Terror (1978 film), The Big Chance (1957 British film), File:Ian Chesterton.jpg) and, even among those, my disambiguation was incomplete, since, of the two William Russell (English actor) links in The Gay Dog, I only spotted one and you subsequently fixed the other. Once again, my thanks.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:20, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Picking the right one out of just two wasn't difficult. They were simultaneously alive for less than five years (Nov 1924 to Feb 1929), so I did it purely on the release date. Unless some sequences filmed in the 1920s were not released until the 1940s, or the English one was a very young child actor, this should be infallible. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:10, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The filmography in the William Russell (English actor) article was obviously copied from his IMDb, rather than his BFI entry, otherwise it would have been noticed that the two American titles from 1940 and 1941, at the start of his filmography, could not have belonged to the then-teenage Englishman. Since William Russell (American actor) died in 1929, those credits actually belonged to a third film-oriented William Russell, who was born in 1908 and would have been 32 in 1940. Other than a few uncredited acting bits in this period {Virginia (1941 film) is mentioned in AFI}, he was subsequently known as a director, primarily on television, using the middle initial "D." {William D. Russell (director)}. I deleted the 1940 and 1941 credits from the English actor's article.
 * I could not end without thanking you one more time for the hours you spent on this disambiguating task, including the in-depth attention to links in WikiProjects, Help desk, Featured topics and sandboxes, in addition to portals, drafts, etc, that I've already mentioned, all of which would have gone unrevised if the task had been left to the standard AWB article-only fixes. My admiration for your dedication and perseverance.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:15, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

You might be interested in this discussion

 * Hi Mr. Spinner! Hope all is well. There's a discussion on Wiki commons as to how should Crimea be coloured on Wikipedia maps. I thought you might be interested in teh topic File_talk:Venezuela_president_recognition_map_2019.svg#Crimea_-_Final_discussion--Piznajko (talk) 08:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for providing the link. Discussions are always of interest to me.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 14:32, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Feb 27 WikiWednesday Salon + Mar 2 MoMA Art+Feminism and beyond
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Speedy deletion nomination of Ye Yint Aung (disambiguation)
A tag has been placed on Ye Yint Aung (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either
 * disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic); or
 * disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 22:33, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

== March 20: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC + March 23: Asian Art Archive/New York Public Library == (You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

Notice of noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding your forking of discussions on the naming of Sobibór into three venues. The thread is "Discussion forked into three places". Thank you. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:23, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the notice and will reply at the indicated venue.. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:46, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Der geteilte Himmel
I don't want to blow up the Move discussion more. "cannot work at all" is a strong statement. Where is the guideline that a book title has had to be published in order to become the common name? - Der geteilte Himmel is not only a book title of a book which is school canon in Germany, but also a metaphor for the divided Germany. I'd think that's a common enough name, while Divided Heaven will be known only to a few literature-interested, on top of being a misleading translation. - Look at FAs such as Honoré de Balzac and Franz Kafka: all works are referred to in the original language. Look at the peer review for Rossini: the article used to say that he composed The Barber of Seville, but it. We are in a process, DYK? - It would be much easier if we could link directly to the works, instead of a piped link. - In the Wolf cas: no mentioning I found means the translation, all the book SHE wrote, which is in German. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:27, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
 * You submitted this nomination so I can can certainly appreciate how you feel. A number of my RM submissions did not pass and one of the most recent ones, which also deals with German names, at Talk:Sobibór trial, may or may not be accepted. I have submitted and participated in a number of similar naming discussions, most frequently concerning film titles and was, initially, incorrect in wanting to translate everything through writing unnecessarily extended arguments in favor of translating titles which had no established English forms, such as in the discussion from ten years ago, at Talk:Hoćemo gusle (2009).
 * Christa Wolf's book, however, has a long-established English title, dating back to the publication of the book's first English translation in 1976, and my "cannot work at all" form was intended as a reply to the previous comment's contention that, "As a natural disambiguation method, the German title works as well". Many books, unfortunately, bear inexact or misleading titles when translated into other languages and such titles, as exemplified by Remembrance of Things Past, become the "official" title in the translated language until, possibly decades later, a better translation with a better title is published.
 * The FA articles about Balzac or Kafka, or the ones delineating opera, may certainly use original titles and opera has its own forms, but the main headers of articles for works by Balzac or Kafka use the titles under which those works were published in the English-speaking world. Non-English-language film titles, such as Y Tu Mamá También, La Dolce Vita, Das Boot or Pather Panchali, occasionally become also English titles, but much depends on their level of difficulty — a telling example is that not a single one of Ingmar Bergman's films (including even a simple name such as Fanny och Alexander) has been distributed in the English-speaking world under its original title. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:53, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Now that we talk about the film: why do you tell people about the exception of The Flying Dutchman, after I said the very same thing in the comment to which you responded? Did you not read it, or did you think it was not worded well? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:15, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You had worded it perfectly fine and I offer apologies for not structuring my comment more adroitly. I deliberately brought up The Flying Dutchman (opera) as an explanatory response to your mention of it, along with examples of a few other German, French and Italian operas which are generally referenced by their English titles in the English-speaking world, and had hoped that it was understood in that manner. However, to avoid any misconception, I have returned to my posting and enhanced the portion in question: "such as in the case of The Flying Dutchman or, for that matter, The Marriage of Figaro" →‎ "such as in the case The Flying Dutchman or, for that matter, The Marriage of Figaro". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 09:12, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Relief, thank you - I often feel not understood, and nice to know exceptions. Kindly look at Rossini, a featured article, and look how The Barber of Seville is treated now, with the change in 2019 due to the peer review. We are in a process of acknoledging what creators had in mind, and article titles would be a way to confirm that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:47, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * While the ultimate resolution of the film title is still uncertain, I'm glad that we came to an understanding in this matter. As for Rossini, Balzac, Kafka, etc as well as German, Italian, French and other film directors and actors whose works originate outside the English-speaking world, it is not uncommon for their works to be referenced under their original titles within their own biographical entries, but still keep their English-language titles in the main headers of their Wikipedia entries. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:40, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Funny that you tell me that, DYK? I was one of the authors behind Kafka, with a decision to mention the titles he wrote in 2013. I find many things on Wikipedia kafkaesque, that's for sure. The Castle, for example. Another bad translation, - Palace would be closer, Schloss best. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:45, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Some poorly translated German and other titles may have become standard in the English-speaking world and some poorly translated English titles may have become known under those poor translations in the German-speaking world and other places. It may be the fault of publishers, translators or due to other factors.
 * We could agree that English Wikipedia should use original titles for classic works in German, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, perhaps other languages, despite linguistic difficulties, but is that practical if the published translations were never known in the place of publication under their original titles? It is certainly a discussion that has been ongoing long before the start of Wikipedia, but Wikipedia may be the key venue for the continuation of this topic. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 14:11, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

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Kiev
The discussion is closed, however, I would like to add some comments on your recent post. First, I agree that Taivo's argument about many Moscows and Odessas is a little bit shaky, and I think you are right. With regard to the rest, government's dissatisfaction has nothing to do with name change. Government policy depends on a current political situation, and it may change quickly, language rules are stable (by the way, when I type "Kyiv" my editor immediately mark it as a typo, which never occurs with "Kiev"). Current situation with Kiev/Kyiv is dictated by the conflict with Russia, and the naming problem may become much less acute after the political situation will change (which, I hope, will happen pretty soon). In a situation when the majority of Kiev population call their city "Kiev" (not "Kyev", because they are Russian speaking), the question of naming is really not too important. Only a small fraction of nationalists, whose dream is to force all Ukrainians to switch from their mother tongue to Ukrainian, are dreaming to force English speaking world from the English name "Kiev" to Ukrainian "Kyiv". However, that is not how democracy works.--Paul Siebert (talk) 21:32, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

You are incorrect, Kiev, the English name has bleep all to do with Kiyev, the romanized form of the Russian name. By yours and Roman's logic, we're speaking Cornish when we speak the name Jennifer. 199.101.62.225 (talk) 14:05, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

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Archiving
Your talk page seems to be long and hard to navigate. I would consider archiving it. What are your thoughts on this? Interstellarity (talk) 19:23, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the reminder and will archive a portion of it on June 1. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:36, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Although late by a month, a portion of the talk page, covering the years 2008 and 2009 is being archived alongside this reply. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Russian names for ukrainian cities? more like exonyms
Hello The following are not Russian names for Ukrainian cities:
 * Kiev
 * Odessa

Do you know what an exonym is? I think that China and Japan do. Same with Gothenburg and Copenhagen. Anybody who says taht Odessa is a Russian name is a fool because they do not get what an exonym is. By the logic of the Ukrainian nationalists, zhōnggu and Nihon want their names back, also it's Hindustan. 199.101.62.225 (talk) 02:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Also I've been to a place called Odesa, where is that? A town house in this Asian country near Hindustan I mean India, the country is called, ummh, Sri Lanka. My point is not to troll you, but to explain to you that yes, you guys have a bad history with Russia, just as my country where I was born, Eritrea has a bad history with Ethiopia. However, Asmara is Asmara, and if we decided to spell it as Asmahra instead of Asmara, we wouldn't be able to make the rest of the world change it any more than The Ukraine would be able to make us change Odessa and Kiev. Again, the names nave 0 to do with Russian in 2019, and everything to do with English. I don't understand IPA, but how would I, an Eritrean-born Londoner pronounce Kyiv and Odesa? In Sri Lanka, Odesa is oh-dee-zuh.

199.101.62.225 (talk) 03:03, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Since the latest discussion at Talk:Kiev/naming has recently closed, I'll be glad to reply here. The heart of the matter is the understanding that "Kiev" and "Odessa" are English transliterations of the Russian names for Ukrainian cities Kyiv and Odesa.
 * During the centuries than Ukraine was part of Tsarist Russia and, subsequently, of the Soviet Union, Ukrainian geographical names as well as the names of ethnic Ukrainians were primarily known in the English-speaking world by the transliterations of their Russian forms.
 * Ukraine, however, has been an independent country since 1991 and Wikipedia now transliterates the names of its cities in their Ukrainian forms (Ukraine's second-largest city, Kharkiv, was once known in the English-speaking world by that city's transliterated Russian name, Kharkov).
 * Historically, when place names outside the English-speaking world revised the forms of their names or even completely changed those names, the English-speaking world adopted those changes. Peking, Bombay, Calcutta, Rangoon, Tiflis, Cracow, Breslau, Danzig, Stettin and Königsberg (mostly without the diacritic) were once English-language names for places now known in the English-speaking world as Beijing, Mumbai, Kolkata, Yangon, Tbilisi, Kraków (with and without the diacritic), Wrocław (with and without the diacritic), Gdańsk (with and without the diacritic), Szczecin and Kaliningrad.
 * Among those names, only Königsberg has undergone a renaming, in 1946, to Kaliningrad, a name also used by German Wikipedia, which has a separate entry for Königsberg, as does the English Wikipedia. All the other places were not renamed, but simply had their English exonyms adjusted (in the German-speaking world, the exonyms for Gdańsk and Wrocław are still Danzig and Breslau, but the latter are no longer the exonyms in the English-speaking world).
 * Thus, "Kiev" will certainly remain unchallenged as the English transliteration of the Russian exonym for the Ukrainian capital, but the English exonym is now moving inexorably towards the use of Kyiv. The United Nations and all governments in the English-speaking world are now using Kyiv, along with online maps, such as Google, Yahoo, Bing or Encarta, along with the world's largest publisher of travel guidebooks, Lonely Planet, and some print media, such as The Guardian and Miami Herald, although the large majority of media outlets in the English-speaking world still use "Kiev".
 * As for pronunciation of Kyiv and Odesa, various English exonyms are pronounced in ways that are at odds with the written form, but as long as the written forms are properly rendered as Kyiv and Odesa, the pronunciations, such as those of Beijing or Mumbai, will stabilize in due time.
 * Finally, it should be noted that Ukraine is no longer referenced by the outdated form "The Ukraine". Also, if "Asmara" is the English transliteration of the Ethiopian exonym for the Eritrean capital Asmahra and if the Eritrean legislature has officially passed a resolution indicating that the English transliteration of its capital is Asmahra, rather than Asmara, and all English-language output emanating from Eritrea started using the form Asmahra and Eritrean governmental entities sent announcements of this nature or of this nature to governmental and private entities, such as educational institutions or media outlets throughout the English-speaking world so that everyone knows how Eritrea transliterates the name of its capital into English, then Eritrean requests of this nature should also receive equally serious consideration.
 * As an additional note, my thanks to Paul Siebert for taking the time on May 7 to write at User talk:Roman Spinner, with my apologies for not posting a reply. Hopefully, some of the issues raised there have been answered here. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:24, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

You are wrong about one thing. Odesa is a Sri Lankan term, and Odessa is an English term, not Russian. Mark Kyiv is the composer for CBC News Network who's name is seen during some of th ecredits for various TV shows. I myself am blind but my girlfriend read the credits for me. So therefore Kiev is an English name, not a Russian name and Kyiv is an African name, not Ukrainian.

Kyiv is pronounced like the word naive, a word I use to describe every single person who claims that Kiev is still a Russian transliteration, even if it had roots in Russian. I will use my girlfriend's surname to help explain this.

Sarkisian, (pronounced like Anita Sarkeesian's surname.) Sarkisian and Sarkeesian have routes in the Armenian name of Sargsyan. Sargsyan, Sarkisian and Sarkeesian are all pronounced the same thing. Kiyev is Russian while Kiev is English, in the same way that Sargsyan (according to my girlfriend) is the original Armenian for mwhile Sarkeesian like Anita Sarkeesian or Sarkisian like my girlfriend are English forms, especially with Sarkeesian, which is a non-Armenian spelling.

In the same way, Kiev is a non-Russian spelling of a name that was rooted from Russian but now completely separate from Russian.

Honestly, I couldn't care less how Russians translate the name of Odessa or Kiev, Odessa and Kiev are as English as the girl's name Jennifer. 199.101.62.225 (talk) 13:41, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Also I call it The Ukraine because we have a word in Eritrea that is similar to Ukraine in sound, so we use "The Ukraine" to refer to The Ukraine to separate it from our unrelated but soundalike term.

Also let's talk about Eritrea: What right would Eritrea have to demand that the rest of English speaking world call it Asmahra if they decided to change the English translation of their name, on the same groudns as The Ukraine? Eritrea was once governed by Ethiopia, much like The Ukraine was governed by Russia. So while I support Eritrea's independance, I would not however support a demand for the English speaking world to be forced by the Eritrean parallel to the RADA to call it Asmarah instead of Asmara, were it to happen.

Allah help the naive ukrainian nationalists who refuse to understand that just because something had a root somwhere else, it doesn't mean that it is a transliteration of that name. By the Ukrainian nationalist logic, anybody who names their kid Jennifer is using a welsh name, not an English name. Why? because Jennifer has roots in Welsh and Cornish. At one time it was a transliteration of the Welsh or Cornish name but it is no longer anything to do with Welsh or Cornish. Same with Kiev and Odessa, they are completely English now, even if they were once Russian. 199.101.62.225 (talk) 13:48, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

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The term "The Ukraine"
Hello Why is it that you object to me using the term "The Ukraine?" Especially because in Eritrea where we are from we have a term that sounds similar to "Ukraine?" We refer to your country as "The Ukraine" to separate it from the Eritrean word. And how would Ukrainians react if I said the term "The Ukraine?" at them? I think this is important because Ukrainian nationalists need to understand that other languages exist and in said languages we have terms that sound similar to Ukraine, hence why we say "The Ukraine" deliberately to separate it from our word, which is th ename of a star. Thanks. 199.101.62.225 (talk) 14:27, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

I bring this up because I find that you guys either discredit me or go to lengths to point out to me that "The Ukraine" isn't used, well it is with those of us who were taught to use the term "The Ukraine." That does not make our arguments on discussion pages (be it on or off Wiki) invalid.

The reason why people feel like The Ukraine is trying to control how people in the English speaking world use English is because of the whole Kyiv/Odesa thing.

Let me tell you now, Kyiv is an African surname, and there is no such city as Odesa in Europe. Not even my screen-reader recognizes the term "Odesa."

Many people go by what they have been taught, and you have to realize that The Ukrainian government has no right to demand that anybody use the term "Kyiv" or "Odesa" (hich is not a city name, it's the name of a town house in Sri Lanka) The Ukraine's going to have to suck it up that it is Kiev and Odessa, because China has to suck it up that we refer to their country as China, even though they are not particularly fond of the exonym either. And before I do go, I will reiterate, Kiev and Odessa are about as Russian as my name, which is Nahom. Nuff said 199.101.62.225 (talk) 15:26, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

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Wikimedia New York City Team 15:38, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

odessa not odesa
Hello Quit using the Sri Lankan name Odesa. Odesa is pronounced as oh-dee-zuh Odessa is pronounced as oh-deh-suh 38.111.120.74 (talk) 12:39, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

where's the beef?
Hello This is a discussion I am starting on the Kiev nameing talk, coppying here and on a few other user talk pages so you guys see it in case it gets removed by the gatekeeper (sarcasm).

Hello Just a little comment and question, based on the discussions I have listened to here and in the archives: As an IP editor who is new to this discussion who has appeared here several times I wanted to ask a question to the many people who push for a rename. But first, some preamble: It appears as if the bulk of the arguments for renaming Kiev to Kyiv are as follows:
 * The name reminds people of Russia.
 * If we changed the name for this country or city to a new name, why not do the same for Kiev?
 * common examples given for this are Mumbai, Kolkata, Beijing, and Eswatini.
 * This number of Google searches proves that Kyiv is more used than Kiev.

However I’ve noticed that three things are often times present in the arguments by many Ukrainian nationalists (not necessarily Ukrainians, let’s not paint all Ukrainians with a broad brush). 1.	 Russophobia – Anybody who disagrees with the Kiev naming is working for Russia, or working to show that The Ukraine is still a part of Russia. 2.	They turn to government agencies both in The Ukraine and the U.S., citing them as rationale for switching the wiki article to Kyiv. 3.	No evidence presented that Kyiv has become the dominant name in the English language.

My question to people like Roman Spinner and others is: Alright so you want this name changed, you really are invested in this to the point where you push the lie that Kiev is a “Russian transliteration, “ But how are you going to prove that Kiev is no longer the name most people recognize? We have archive after archive here dating back to 2006 with this issue; I was in high school in 2006 learning about British history and useless polynomials. I had posted a reminder which was removed by a gatekeeper who doesn’t like IP editors, where I summed up the discussions, and I can’t find the edit because of its removal. (That’s sarcasm BTW) However, I will ask a question this time, how are you guys (like Roman Spinner and others) going to show users like my arrogant self that Kyiv has overtaken Kiev? Now note the wording of the question, how it’s “taken over, “not “is taking over.” I choose these words because I feel that you have to show that it has taken over, that it has become the dominant one in common use in order for the name to change. As per the argument about places like Mumbai and eSwatini (even though I was against the eSwatini article move), they are English speaking countries. I don’t know why Beijing changed, but I can speak for Mumbai and Kolkata. Mumbai and Kolkata are in India, a former British colonial possession that has English as an official language. Those changes took time. So it comes back to my question, how will Roman Spinner and his ilk show us that Kiev is obsolete? Where’s the beef? Thank you. 38.111.120.74 (talk) 14:11, 17 July 2019 (UTC) 38.111.120.74 (talk) 14:11, 17 July 2019 (UTC) 38.111.120.74 (talk) 14:17, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

RfC at Stanley Kubrick
This is a courtesy notice that there is an ongoing RfC about adding an infobox to Stanley Kubrick at Talk:Stanley Kubrick. Since you are a previous participant in such discussions, you may be interested in participating. -- Laser brain  (talk)  16:24, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Manifest (TV series)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Manifest (TV series). — Young Forever (talk)   17:34, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

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Season's Greetings
FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Remember when...
...we saved Clarence Odbody. He's still going strong! Merry Christmas and holidays to your and yours, and may the Ghost of Christmas Present join you in much happiness. Randy Kryn (talk) 06:02, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
 * And I thought the results of December 24 were a good reason to bring this here. Well,look at Christmas. A few thousand people had nothing better to do than to remind themselves of Clarence. Again, nice work. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:59, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It was a good defense back there two Christmases ago of Clarence's place in history and in the pages of Wikipedia. "But not till Man forgets his wings, will men forget the Wrights" and not till Virginia forgets Santa Claus will men (and women) forget Yuletide and George Bailey's alternative future which never came to pass thanks to Clarence whose time to match and raise viewing records is and always will be Christmas. Nice work indeed and God Bless Us Everyone. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 05:59, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Nice poem link. Brought this back here because I was a little surprised at the over four-fold increase on Christmas day, as the film isn't totally a Christmas-related film. Thanks again. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:41, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Last one for now, but this may be of interest. The articles on Clarence and Mary Hatch both had about 4,000 views on Christmas, and George Bailey had almost exactly twice as many. But coming in at 14,000? The town of Bedford Falls itself. Worthy of a Wikipedia bar-bet. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:10, 30 December 2019 (UTC)