User talk:Ronhjones/Archive 13

Deleted article
Hi Ronhjones! I just wanted to create the article The Sparkles but it gave the notice that you deleted it in March and the note would tell me to contact you. Was the article about the Levelland (TX), garage rock band? If not, then I would like to create the page. If so, then I would like to discuss the notability of the band : ) Thanks in advance. ~ Elitropia (talk) 18:07, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it was a different band. I'm not even convinced it was real - It is built of three members that share coordinated names: Didi, Fifi and Hihi. Your choices...
 * Create the page anyway, brave man, it's never easy to create from scratch straight into article space.
 * If the band is the same - then ask me to WP:Userfy the article for you to work on it.
 * Create the page, but as User:Elitropia/The Sparkles, start the top of the page with userspace draft - then you will get an easier ride, and less likely to get someone planting a WP:CSD tag on it (partly because all the "A" reasons in WP:CSD are not valid while the page is in user space. Once you have written the page, then maybe ask at the WP:HELPDESK for other users to pass comment, when OK then move the page to it's proper place.
 * Don't forget that if any person is still alive, then you must have good references as per the WP:BLP policy. Hope that helps.  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:29, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi again! Thank you for the response. I would like to tell that the page deleted was for sure not the article that I want to create. I already wrote it and I didn't know there used to be a same titled page until I tried to create it. I would like go with the first option and I assure you, I always seek for a review from the experienced editors after I create the article. Thank you once more for your contribution on the matter. Have a nice evening. ~ Elitropia (talk) 22:36, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 December 2011

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request unprotection of Template:SexEditNotice
Hi, would you be kind enough to unprotect this template? There are several reasons why:
 * It was protected with a summary of "‎Highly visible template", which couldn't have been accurate at the time since it was protected eight minutes after it was created.
 * And it's not accurate now; it's on hardly more than a score of pages, which is less than many templates that aren't protected.
 * And it was created and then immediately protected by the same editor (you), which seems improper and looks like self-dealing.
 * And there are a lot of problems with the template, it needs a complete reworking. I'll describe some of these on the template talk page presently. Herostratus (talk) 08:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Changed to semi. At the time of construction there was a lot (and I mean a lot) of editing of photos in and out of the sexual articles - at a time where photos were being replaced by drawings. Once it was in place it did appear to reduce the endless silly editing. I don't remember the construction of the wording - I seem to recall it was based on another template that was used in page notices. Fell free to change, I think that the image changing problem has subsided quite a bit, and if you wish to improve it, then by all means go ahead. If I see any later vandals finding it, I can always protect it again.  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:15, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * OK thanks. Herostratus (talk) 17:21, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

 * Thanks, It's not so bad once you get started. I use Linky as well to open all the links in one go. Wide screen monitor helps with the two open browser windows.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:14, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Permission granted for my article "Creation according to Hinduism"
SUB: Creation according to Hinduism

This was deleted by you citing copyright violations. I have now received okay from http://www.ibiblio.org/sadagopan/sundarasimham/ebooks/ebook73.htm as copied before. Please reconsider allowing my article on Wikipedia.

SrI: Dear Dr. Sreekrishna : Thanks for the clarification ! I am delighted to accede to your request. Please proceed. I have copied the team members, who were involved in the creation of this document as an ebook in the Sundarasimham ebook series and maintaining the web site. NamO SrI NrusimhAya, V.Sadagopan From: Koti Sreekrishna Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 1:09 AM To: yennappan@computer.net Subject: Re: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA Dear Sriman Sadagopan, I tried to post the article in Wilipedia under :Creation according to Hinduism. I was using only preface part and translation of PS. Wikipedia said it can not be placed there as it is copyrighted material by Sundarasimham. However, with your permission, I think it can be published. So I am only requesting to grant permission. Certainly I am not asking to remove from Sundarasimham. Regards KST

-Original Message- From: VS  To: Koti Sreekrishna ; FR2007  Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 9:21 pm Subject: Re: Fwd: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA

SrI: Dear Dr.Koti Sreekrishna : I am confused about your e-mail. Are you asking me for permission to publish it in Wikipedia or are you saying that you would like to remove this content that you created for the Sundarasimham ebook series ? I will be happy to help you to meet your goals. Please explain. NamO SrI NrsimhAya, V.Sadagopan From: Koti Sreekrishna Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 7:16 PM To: yennappan@computer.net Subject: Fwd: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA

-Original Message- From: Koti Sreekrishna  To: webmaster  Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 9:25 pm Subject: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA

Dear Sriman Sadagopan, I am writing to confirm whether permission is granted to use *[a page/content] from your website under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License (CC-BY-SA). A user with the *[tatachar/sreekrishna2011] has pasted in text from your website http://www.ibiblio.org/sadagopan/sundarasimham/ebooks/ebook73.htm to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The text concerns "Creation according to Hinduism" and the original submission can be viewed at *[Address of Pre-copyvio boilerplate version]. This user claims on the talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sreekrishna2011 to have the authority to release this material under CC-BY-SA/ be the original author of the material, but for the page to remain on our site, we need further evidence that this is the case. Please be assured that if you do not grant permission, your content will not be used at Wikipedia; we have a strict policy against copyright violations. You can read CC-BY-SA in full at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License. The license stipulates that any copy of the material, even if modified, must carry the same license. This means that anyone would be licensed to distribute the material, possibly for a fee (we would distribute your work free of charge). Under the license, no distributor (commercial or otherwise) can restrict future distribution, so your work would never become proprietary. In addition, the license does not grant the right to imply your endorsement of a modified version. Please note that your contributions may not remain intact as submitted; this license and the collaborative nature of our project entitles others to edit, alter, and update content at will, i.e., to keep up with new information, or suit the text to a different purpose. There is more information on our copyright policy at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights. The article will be deleted in seven days time if permission is not confirmed, though it can be restored at a later date if you choose to respond later to state that such use is allowed. Thank you for your time. I look forward to your response. Yours faithfully, Koti Sreekrishna Tatachar

Title: Creation According to Hinduism — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sreekrishna2011 (talk • contribs) 21:34, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I cannot validate such requests - please follow the instructions at DCM by sending to the permissions e-mail address specified.  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:38, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Copyright for image of Vampire Bat
Dear Ron Jones:

Here is a copy of a letter I am just sending to permissions-en@wikimedia.org. Please contact me again if you have any further queries or comments. Whatever happens, have a good Christmas and a healthy, happy and productive New Year. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 01:33, 17 December 2011 (UTC) ................................................

Dear Sir or Madam:

Apparently User:Ronhjones feels there is some copyright problem with the image File:Greenhall Crawford 1956.jpg. On the image page is a copy of a letter sent to me by Mr. Paul Greenhall, son of Arthur Greenhall who took the picture, who inherited the photo when his Dad died. Paul Greenhall is also the Director of the Greenhall’s Trust – WI and a close friend of mine since we grew up together in Trinidad in the 1950’s and I worked with his father as an assistant (along with Mr. Crawford illustrated in the photo) doing research on rabies there. I wrote to Paul at the time (2007) and he sent me the letter which, as I mentioned is on the file’s page, which gave me permission to “use, reproduce and or duplicate as needed any image that Paul Greenhall provides. If the images are used, the desired citation is: Courtesy of the Greenhall’s Trust – WI.

This, to me, would seem to satisfy Wikipedia’s requirements. If not – please email Mr. Paul Greenhall at popenstor@aol.com and ask him personally. He is the Curator of Molluscs at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C. I would prefer you do this for 2 reasons: 1. I don’t want to bother him again over a matter he thought he had dealt with sufficiently and I know he is extremely busy. 2. I am sick and bedridden and in constant pain and trying to cope with family and friends over Christmas.So, I would appreciate any help you can give on this matter.

However, if you can’t do this I will write to him again – but it would have to wait until sometime in January. Please let me know if this is OK and/or if you need me to write to Paul again.

I have pasted in a copy of his original email giving permission below (which you can also find on the file page.

Best wishes to everyone at the Wikipedia for the New Year and apologies for not contributing that much recently – I just haven’t been well enough. I really support Wikipedia and its aims and I do appreciate the care that is taken to make sure everything is legit.

Sincerely,

John Hill Cooktown, Australia. .......................................................................................................

-Original Message- From: GREENHAL@si.edu To: popstentor@aol.com Sent: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 7:05 AM Subject: Images for John Hill Australia"

The photo shows Mr. Crawford who was Arthur Greenhall's Senior Assistant and close friend. John Hill 03:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

"John Hill has permission from the Greenhall Family to use, reproduce and or duplicate as needed any image that Paul Greenhall provides. If the images are used, the desired citation is: Courtesy of the Greenhall's Trust – WI”


 * I'm sure the OTRS team will give it their full attention. Knowing the OTRS queue can be not too quick I will extend the date, and add OTRS pending to the image page.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:22, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Images of art
You could use Photo of art to preserve the attribution for the photo, BTW Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:21, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Another new image template to remember. Wow, can we get many more ;-). Were you thinking of any particular image, or just in general?  Ron h jones (Talk) 17:32, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The intended use is pictures of artworks on public display, which can't be uploaded as CC-whatever normally because of the lack of FoP in some countries (like File:Draped_recling_figure.JPG If you want to create a more general template based on  Photo_of_art template so it can be used for other things like user created images of 'product covers','phones' etc.. LMK. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:50, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Ulmus × hollandica Smithii close-up 2.JPG‎
The photographer at Kew, Rafael Govaerts, has already emailed his permission to Wikipedia for this image to be used. Please take the trouble to check for these Permissions first before recklessly deleting bona-fide images. 21:02, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I do. There is no approved OTRS ticket for this image. Please read the notice on the file page.  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:04, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Then what's going wrong? I've seen his email because he copied it to me. Why no OTRS ticket? Ptelea (talk) 11:13, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I cannot see OTRS queues - it's only for a small number of approved editors, due to WP's privacy policy. I would assume that they have replied to the sender? The only way to check is to ask at the OTRS noticeboard quoting the ref number from the OTRS message on the file page.  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:36, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

It is sort of amusing
to see a picture that I up loaded in 2004 to be up for "speedy deletion" but that's what I find with File:GutzonNewark2.jpg. Sort of an "oh well" The work, though plaster versions exist from 1921 was not dedicated until 1926, missing the 1923 copyright free zone. In any case, thank-you for letting me know. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 15:15, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Some images have often slipped through various "nets" - I strongly suspect the Wikipedia policies have significantly changed since the upload, what may have been allowed then, it not allowed now. It's not the oldest picture I have found a problem - at least yours was correctly attributed - many more of that vintage that were uploaded, and were just blatant copyright violations - the uploader "knowing" we probably would not find the original, but times move on and so does image searching.  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:39, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. It makes a refreshing change to even find an active user from that time!  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:40, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Sub: Creation according to Hinduism.
This submission of mine (Koti Sreekrishna) was deleted citing copyright infringement. I have received permission as copie dbelow. Please allow publication of my article.

Thanks

Koti Sreekrishna

SrI: Dear Dr. Sreekrishna : Thanks for the clarification ! I am delighted to accede to your request. Please proceed. I have copied the team members, who were involved in the creation of this document as an ebook in the Sundarasimham ebook series and maintaining the web site. NamO SrI NrusimhAya, V.Sadagopan From: Koti Sreekrishna Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 1:09 AM To: yennappan@computer.net Subject: Re: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA Dear Sriman Sadagopan, I tried to post the article in Wilipedia under :Creation according to Hinduism. I was using only preface part and translation of PS. Wikipedia said it can not be placed there as it is copyrighted material by Sundarasimham. However, with your permission, I think it can be published. So I am only requesting to grant permission. Certainly I am not asking to remove from Sundarasimham. Regards KST

-Original Message- From: VS  To: Koti Sreekrishna ; FR2007  Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 9:21 pm Subject: Re: Fwd: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA

SrI: Dear Dr.Koti Sreekrishna : I am confused about your e-mail. Are you asking me for permission to publish it in Wikipedia or are you saying that you would like to remove this content that you created for the Sundarasimham ebook series ? I will be happy to help you to meet your goals. Please explain. NamO SrI NrsimhAya, V.Sadagopan From: Koti Sreekrishna Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 7:16 PM To: yennappan@computer.net Subject: Fwd: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA

-Original Message- From: Koti Sreekrishna  To: webmaster  Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 9:25 pm Subject: Reqest for permission to publish my article "Creation according to Hinduism" from ebook73 at WIKIPEDIA

Dear Sriman Sadagopan, I am writing to confirm whether permission is granted to use *[a page/content] from your website under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License (CC-BY-SA). A user with the *[tatachar/sreekrishna2011] has pasted in text from your website http://www.ibiblio.org/sadagopan/sundarasimham/ebooks/ebook73.htm to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The text concerns "Creation according to Hinduism" and the original submission can be viewed at *[Address of Pre-copyvio boilerplate version]. This user claims on the talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sreekrishna2011 to have the authority to release this material under CC-BY-SA/ be the original author of the material, but for the page to remain on our site, we need further evidence that this is the case. Please be assured that if you do not grant permission, your content will not be used at Wikipedia; we have a strict policy against copyright violations. You can read CC-BY-SA in full at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License. The license stipulates that any copy of the material, even if modified, must carry the same license. This means that anyone would be licensed to distribute the material, possibly for a fee (we would distribute your work free of charge). Under the license, no distributor (commercial or otherwise) can restrict future distribution, so your work would never become proprietary. In addition, the license does not grant the right to imply your endorsement of a modified version. Please note that your contributions may not remain intact as submitted; this license and the collaborative nature of our project entitles others to edit, alter, and update content at will, i.e., to keep up with new information, or suit the text to a different purpose. There is more information on our copyright policy at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights. The article will be deleted in seven days time if permission is not confirmed, though it can be restored at a later date if you choose to respond later to state that such use is allowed. Thank you for your time. I look forward to your response. Yours faithfully, Koti Sreekrishna Tatachar — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sreekrishna2011 (talk • contribs) 22:59, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Posting copies of e-mails to a talk page is of no use. I'm sure your e-mail is probably genuine, but it is possible to just type out what appears to be an e-mail - so we must have it verified according to the polices. Please look at DCM - it explains there, where the e-mail has to be sent to in order for an OTRS volunteer to process it and hopefully grant an OTRS ticket for your page.  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:26, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Blocking NamSandStorm
How is this users' name a violation of the no-organisation-names policy? Which organisation (or group) has the same name? --U5K0'sTalkMake WikiLove not WikiWar 23:40, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't do the block. You should take it up with User:The Blade of the Northern Lights - but (s)he is only writing about Namiba Sports organisations, which is not that far removed from the user name - it's only a soft block, the user can make a new name and start editing straight away if they wish.  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:47, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * ...not that far removed... can't possibly be good enough to block somebody, soft or othrwise. If something like this had happened to me just after I registered I'd just forget about it and never look back. No wonder we're not getting new editors. --U5K0'sTalkMake WikiLove not WikiWar 23:52, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You should take it up with User:The Blade of the Northern Lights  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:53, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've since unblocked, the blocking admin made a mistake, but it is worrying that an unblock request got denied because of "not that far removed" or rather because it had some letters in common. I don't see how that is a criteria for blocking, nor see how useful is a review of a block if no review is carried out, as in this case. The fact that the user can make another username is no reason to keep a user blocked and deny them the username they want without any basis in policy. Mistakes can be made, it's what the review and unblock process is for, and it's very important that it is taken seriously and with care. The user fortunately logged on IRC and got some editors to review it, but otherwise would have left the project.  Snowolf How can I help? 03:51, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 December 2011

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 04:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Golden Medal of the Academy of Arts of the USSR.jpg
Hi, you have flagged for deletion the following file: File:Golden Medal of the Academy of Arts of the USSR.jpg. Could you please further specify what kind of permission from who it would be appropriate to get for the image. Thanks. --  Ashot  ( talk ) 05:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It a picture of some sort of certificate. Taking a picture of a 2D work does not give the photographer the copyright. The copyright belongs to the person or organisation that issued the certificate in the first place and will remain that way until the copyright expires - that appears to be 50 years according to Non-U.S. copyrights. If there was just text on the document, then it could be used as PD-text, but with the embossed logo, that causes a problem. If the image is an essential part of the article, then it could be changed to non free by adding a WP:FURG and a Non-free fair use in template. If you can positively show that the document has no copyright, then that would do; or if you can contact the organisation that created the document with a view to using the procedures shown in WP:DCM then that's the ideal solution. Sorry for long answer, but image copyright is a minefield.  Ron h jones (Talk) 13:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --  Ashot  ( talk ) 22:10, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Warning template
There are pages that Muslims might be subjected to pictures of Muhammad and we have a suggested method for making them not see these pictures (just turning show images to off for most major browsers tutorial) that I was hoping to place on the top of these pages. Can you help me with a template like you did with Sex? Alatari (talk) 11:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It very simple - a fair bit of manual editing might be required - I give you some ideas... Of course, if people turn off the images then they turn them off for the whole of Wikipedia, sadly there's not a way to turn them off selectively.
 * First make the template! Create it in template space - something like Template:MuhammadEditNotice - chose whatever name you feel happy with - the name is not important.
 * The on every page you want the template to appear when a user edits, edit that page, and just above the edit box and on the right there will be a red link "Page Notice" click that link. now you get a new editing box
 * (e.g take the article Lune Aqueduct, click the red link and your new title is "Editing Template:Editnotices/Page/Lune Aqueduct").
 * Just put the template name in the box with double braces - thus -   - then  do the edit summary and save page as a normal edit. When you go back to your original page and press "edit this page", then the newly constructed edit notice will appear at the top of the page.
 * That's about it, feel free to ask if not clear.  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:39, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

OK, I'll try this out. Thanks for the lesson. --Alatari (talk) 04:40, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I am not finding the Page notice link on any of the pages, except your talk page, that I try. Do I need to be an admin? --Alatari (talk) 04:54, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

 Ron h jones (Talk) 20:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ooooo, you are so correct. I completely forgot that. No problem, there are way for you to continue - have a read of Editnotice (the bit below that big table) - it will show you how to make a link to the talk page of the page's edit notice, and you can ask for the notice to be placed.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:05, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. if you have any HTML in your template it must be valid XTHML - or it makes problems (done that!) - all tags must be closed, and single tags must be self closing - e.g. is not allowed, has to be

File licencing wizard
Hi Ron. Did Maryana (WMF) ever respond to your assistance regarding your suggestion of creating a wizard etc?  fredgandt  21:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No. But I did start one at Image copyright wizard anyway. I left it for a few days to allow my head to clear! It's only scratching the surface at present, there's a whole lot of odd templates to have links to.  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:50, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't apologise on her behalf but I am sorry to hear you were not respected more. I recommended she speak with you. I feel bad for you. Glad to hear that something productive is coming of it though. I'm sure it will help a lot of people (uploaders and file vigilantes both).  f<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">red</i>g<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">andt</i>  21:54, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Ron and Fred, so sorry for the prolonged silence – I've been swamped with template tests :-/
 * Ron: I think the Wizard is a great idea, but it's a big undertaking and you'll probably need a lot of help from a lot of diverse folks with image copyright expertise. I know a few off the top of my head; just let me know when you're comfortable getting some feedback on your draft, and I'll point them in your direction. You might also want to touch base with the folks who worked on the Upload Wizard on Commons. I can give you some contacts on that end, too. And one more thought: WMF is ramping up efforts to recruit fellows to work on projects that make life easier for new and old users alike, and this strikes me as a fantastic potential fellowship opportunity for you or someone else. You should check out the fellowships page on Meta and consider submitting this as a project proposal. Let me know if you have any questions or need help, and if I don't respond in a timely fashion, please feel free to come harass me on my talk page :) Maryana (WMF) (talk) 22:13, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, there's still a lot I can do with the draft at present, let's see how it goes. I think it will work OK in the end. I don't work on anything 100% - I need to hop about a bit - probably the mad scientist in me... so I'll go off and block some vandals for a change. A fellow? I've not been a fellow since I gave up being a FRSC - because the RSC wanted £91/y for the privilege of adding 4 letters after my name - the Dr in front will have to do... ;-)  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:23, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello Maryana. It would have taken 2 minutes to post a message saying "I am really busy. I'll be back". No one is that swamped. That's the end of the matter as I see it.  f<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">red</i>g<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">andt</i>  23:39, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll give you all a shout if I manage to get a working system  Ron h jones  (Talk) 19:38, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Glen Campbell live Goodtime Theater Branson MI.jpg
Hi, concerning this file

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glen_Campbell_live_Goodtime_Theater_Branson_MI.jpg

i sent an email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org on dec 5th but there has been no reply so far. Only two days left until the deadline. What happens if the deadline expires and there has been no reply yet? Lumdeloo (talk) 09:21, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * OTRS is staffed by volunteers, I think there is a about a two weeks delay at present. If it did get deleted then they would ask for undelete (nothing ever gets really deleted), since you have confirmed that you have sent the e-mail, I'll change the date and add a OTRS pending template for you.  Ron h jones (Talk) 17:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Lumdeloo (talk) 21:13, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, in two days the deadline expires again, still no reply from OTRS. Next week I will be on holiday, so I would appreciate it if you could extend the deadline again. Thanks in advance and a Merry Christmas! Lumdeloo (talk) 20:29, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Tis the season of goodwill, so OK.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:47, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas...
and great holidays. Enjoy those free days Ron :) Best regards, --Yikrazuul (talk) 18:53, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Free! Free! You've not seen my credit card bill! Xmas and Free should not be used in the same context. ;-) Still, no chemistry until Jan 3rd. :-)  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

WARNING- Vandalism by user 96.242.217.91 - Posibbly Thmc1!
Ron, I think Thmc1, a user who was banned for sock-puppeting pro-NYC edits might be back for another round. Logged in using only IP address 96.242.217.91, the editing style and grammar are the same- right... right down to the very same articles. This individual is once again promoting his pro-NYV propaganda by relegating San Francisco Chinatown's "largest" status, even though the SF page cites several research-oriented sources, including a census-allied database(city-data.com) which collects statistics for virtually all known communities in the U.S.- right down to individual neighborhoods within cities using pie charts and bar graphs. He has also revised the page's "Highbinder Tong Wars" section doubting that such calamitous affairs could even take place in such a city as San Francisco. In his edits, he states that these events "supposedly" happened. A phone call to the city's Chinese Cultural Association confirms that these events did in fact happen. I was even referred by the association to a book by a noted local historian which I just discovered is the very same one that was cited in the WP article! User 96.242.217.91 has other ideas, however. He poo poos on all of that, and points to a coffee table book about NYC written by a partial author and other pro-NYC tourist websites which he cites as well-cited and reliable sources. The only thing mentioned about SF was in the book about how NYC's Chinatown surpassed SF's in 1990 as largest. No facts, stats, or other sources were given in the book to support the author's claim. I would not also be surprised if he was also sock-puppeting using an assumed ID. An investigation log was actually opened on this user in 2010 on suspicion conducting similar vandalism acts. Then activity from that IP stopped altogether soon after, which I believe wasn't a coincidence. This user has no returned a bit more brazen an aggressive. He's even had the nerve to accuse another user who undid his vandalous edit(see "Chinatown, San Francisco" article)! If at all possible, I have several requests: 1. Restart another investigation on this individual and keep an eye on his activities. 2. Please, please, please, place a lock on the "Chinatown, San Francisco" article so that only registered users can make changes after being checked upon by reliable WP editors. 3. Please undo his latest edits in the Chinatown, San Francisco page & give him a watrning. If he sees somebody of authority keeping him in tow, it may help(*fingers crossed*) slow down his efforts. MBaxter1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:51, 23 December 2011 (UTC).
 * 1. I see you have initiated that one.
 * 2. Done
 * 3. Done
 *  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:27, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Hi Ronhjones, Hope that so day somewhere on earth we shall meet in the same friendly manner in which we have interacted online for en:wp. I am very pleased with your friendly and welcoming attitude. Hindustanilanguage (talk) 10:18, 26 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Thank you, and the same greetings to yourself.  Ron h jones (Talk) 12:59, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Advise please
I got a notice about a problem with the license for this image. I created the solid model of the handle, and I made the screen shot. And I uploaded it.

Adding images to articles I work on is one of Wikipedia’s most incredibly frustrating experiences because even when I think I’m following the rules (the process asks if you are the creator of the work), and use the cc-by-sa-3.0 license, things still are apparently not correct.

If this issue is about how the tab legends (“Sketch” “Create” “Modify”, etc.) and floppy-disk icons appear in the image, I’m confident that the author’s rights to his software aren’t being infringed when there is no program code or sourcecode being conveyed with such simple elements. Don’t such background visual elements showing what the program looks like when one is using it fall under fair-use in order to illustrate its basic nature and offer critical commentary? If so, what other elaboration is required in the licensing boilerplate?

Given that I made it, what exactly would you suggest to satisfy the requirements? Greg L (talk) 20:43, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It's the background program menus - you say above "fair-use", but you have not set the image up as non free fair use, it's set up as "All Free Media" (it's a hidden category - but your image will be found in Category:All free media) - meaning anyone can copy and use it for any purpose. Normally screenshots fall into one of...
 * Wikipedia screenshot - no problem as WP is CC-BY-SA
 * Screentshot of a GDFL software - still no issues
 * Screenshot of copyrighted software, even Internet Explorer fits in this one - use non-free
 * If you are not worried about the menus - chop them off and use the image, otherwise you really need to add a WP:FURG and a Non-free software screenshot to replace the CC-BY-SA 3.0. You may note that a bot has tagged it to be moved to commons - the bots are tagging all images in the All Free Media category - there is no need for free images to be stored on en-Wiki, however if I moved that image now, I suspect commons would delete it rather quickly. I agree images are a minefield - I've been sorting images for at least a year and something different crops up each week.  Ron h jones (Talk) 00:13, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I need further guidance. The top-most pixels are required because  the point  of that image is to show how a solid model can come from that program and could be imported into another program with the solid model intact. See how the image is used in the article, TransMagic. As you can see, there are two images that need to be fixed. The solid model is my contribution that needs to be covered under the Creative Commons license. Then I need a fair-use rationale. I suggest something like There are some visual interface elements showing in this image to enable the reader to discern that AutoDesk Inventor is being used to export the original solid model. AutoDesk’s rights aren’t infringed when simple visual elements are illustrated because there is no accompanying output code or source code. Displaying such basic visual elements to show something is considered fair use in order to offer an encyclopedic treatment and critical commentary of the software in question and how it accepts solid models from other programs. Then I apparently need to use a generic fair-use tag, such as. Please advise for both images. I want to stop devoting so much time because my daughter and her twins are here today. Greg L (talk) 00:20, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't Panic. We have a week to sort this out - nothing will happen until then. I suggest changing both to non-free - leave it with me, I'll put something together for both images and get back to you for final approval. Probably tomorrow night - it's past midnight here...  Ron h jones (Talk) 00:30, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think I fixed them both (File:Handle with TransMagic add-in in Inventor.png and File:Handle with TransMagic add-in in Inventor.png). I was surprised that I needed to address the issue of explaining-away the use of such a limited amount of user-interface elements (just their appearance, none of the underlying code) from those two programs. With such exceedingly small and superficial amounts of their I.P. being used and with so much of the image overwhelmingly dominated by my contribution, those two images seemed to me to be a derivative original that properly required only the Creative Commons cc-by-sa-3.0 license. Was it a judgement call, or might there be some truth to my original judgement? The whole process of being guided through the uploading process is far too abstruse for such complexities to be handled by mere mortals. Greg L (talk) 00:50, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 December 2011
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just fyi
If you didn't see this pic was brought up on Jimmy's talkpage here. Youreallycan (talk) 01:00, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No didn't see that. Busy discussing ways to keep the images. Wouldn't want them moved to commons and then deleted, which a very possible scenario.  Ron h jones (Talk) 01:13, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I agree with you there. Its an interesting situation and I will be interested to see the outcome - regards - Youreallycan (talk) 01:17, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we've now sorted it out. Images are now standard non free with a WP:FURG and non-free software screenshot, plus I've added a short declaration that the image is user constructed and CC (but not using a CC template, which causes issues as it puts the whole image in a free media category).  Ron h jones (Talk) 01:35, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * He has replaced the CC template and added it back to the All_free_media cat. Its not all free media....tch.. I just don't see what benefit there is to wanting to do that. If he wants to release his rights to the pic he created then upload that separately to commons without the border and keep the whole thing here as a non free screenshot. Seems all a bit pointy to me. Youreallycan (talk) 13:39, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * More than one way to skin a cat. Add a couple of "subst" in correct place and then one can dissect out the "All Free Media" link without upsetting the rest of the template.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:20, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, well done. Slightly over my head format wise, but if it comes up again I will refer back to you for the 'how to' guide. - Ah, this is the guide Template substitution - Happy new year to you Ron and best wishes throughout 2012. Youreallycan (talk) 22:34, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Best Pass Recovery Deletion
Hello, i dont understand why ur deleting my product page , it contain no promotional content , many products have pages on Wikipedia , i dont understand why ur deleting my product instead — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.185.231.94 (talk) 08:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Deleted as a copyright violation.  Ron h jones (Talk) 15:10, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks and a question
Hello R. Thanks for blocking Pizzaking27 so promptly. A little year end messing around for our pleasure I guess. I have a question regarding the hoax article that the editor created Noddy: Playtime in Toyland Can it be speedied or do we need to go through the whole AFD process? I am about to go offline so I thought I would ask and I will be happy to do whatever you recommend when I get back. Cheers and have a great 2012 (which will get to you seven hours before me) on wiki and off. MarnetteD | Talk 16:07, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The game does exist - I suspect it "bombed". Difficult to pick the correct CSD in that case, not really a CSD cat for a duff game. Anyway, I've removed the cast list (as I cannot verify - so we can use BLP for that) and added a PROD - should someone kill the PROD, then AfD is the way to go - I can't see it being notable.  Ron h jones (Talk) 16:36, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to do all that was necessary. It is much appreciated and, again, Happy New Year to you and yours. MarnetteD | Talk 17:10, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Re: File:ThalaAjith.jpg
Thanks for explaining. The file is a clear copyvio which can be found in many sites. &mdash; Commander (Ping me) 16:57, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Listing deletions for the transfer drive
Hey there, I just wanted to thank you for diving headfirst into this. Because space is at a premium in the logs page, and because you've already deleted one and a half times as many files as is the requirement for the only deletion related barnstar, once you get to 100 deletions, please just update the numerical count, and stop adding the line items, or just say "100+". Deleting the files after they are transferred is an important task, so by all means keep doing it though. Thanks again!  S ven M anguard  Wha?  16:26, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The system I use does the deletions automatically :-)   Ron h jones (Talk) 16:28, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What is it? FTCG?  S ven M anguard   Wha?  16:44, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No :-) Months ago I asked commons:user:Sreejithk2000 for a copy of his "CommonsMover" uploading tool. It utilises WikiSense - which helps the categories - but only waits 60 seconds then times out (WikiSense does have a habit of hanging), then it downloads the file to the PC and uploads to commons and when OK, deletes it (or I think put "Moved to commons" if not an admin).  Ron h jones (Talk) 16:48, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. it also handles multiple versions in one go :-)  Ron h jones (Talk) 17:08, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

File:GalagaOrnament.JPG
Greetings ... I originally uploaded File:GalagaOrnament.JPG, and honestly I'm not sure what to do regarding the licensing of this. I am the person who took the photograph, but admittedly I'm not sure how this will work because the subject is technically under copyright from whoever designed it for Hallmark (meaning Hallmark most likely owns the copyright). As such, it most likely should have a non-free rationale, which I would gladly provide for it. I'm open to suggestions and guidance. Thanks! -- McDoob AU  93  00:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree - I think you need to go for add WP:FURG and probably a Non-free 3D art. It's come to light because all free pics are moving to commons - hence the "This file has been identified as a priority candidate in the January 2012 Move to Commons Drive."  Ron h jones (Talk) 00:34, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I just added the suggested non-free template and a fair-use rationale for the image. If you get a chance, take a look at it and see if the image is now satisfactory for use within the project, even if not in Commons. Thanks again for your quick response. -- McDoob  AU  93  00:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Tidied up - I've processed it with PhotoShop to give a suitable size for a FUR.  Ron h jones (Talk) 00:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

File:Gail Vance Civille 1.jpg
Hi Ronhjones, You sent me this notification: tagging for deletion of File:Gail Vance Civille 1.jpg. (TW). I wrote this biography for the president of the company I work for. The image was taken in premises and is part of the company's employee album. I understand that my image file has permission problems, however how can I authorize its posting in Wikipedia avoiding that the material may be used by anyone, for any purpose; what if it's misused by a third party?

Is there any other way to give permission in the image posting on the Wikipedia page without exposing it to be abused?

Thanks for you advice, User:Five Senses — Preceding unsigned comment added by Five Senses (talk • contribs) 14:46, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Instructions can be found at WP:DCM, as you may see (from the file page) we are moving all (eventually) free images to commons, so it's important to be correct before move, as commons will see the errors that have developed over the years in en-Wiki - they are much more used to images and their legality to stay. I assume the copyright is owned by the company? (easy) or the photographer? (tricky). Whoever owns the copyright needs to send the permission - look at WP:CONSENT - this gives you a standard form to copy to e-mail in and the address - one that starts "permissions-en" (as the image is still on en-Wiki)- ideally from an e-mail address domain relating to the company (an e-mail from fred@hotmail.com is not going to be useful). Then replace the with undefined at the top of the file page. That gives you 30 days before the WP:OTRS "times out" ad becomes old (OTRS is usually done before that). Assuming all it well, an OTRS volunteer (it might even be me), will add a full OTRS permission received banner and the image is safe.  Ron h jones (Talk) 15:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 January 2012
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Infobox scientist
Your edit at Infobox scientist had a problem (I saw you were offline, so did not report it here). Please see Template talk:Infobox scientist.
 * Done  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:13, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, I used "new section", and the edit notice I'm looking at says "Welcome to, you are about to edit my talk page" (name missing), whereas clicking Page notice shows "Welcome to Ronhjones, you are about to edit my talk page". Apparently the behavior of the magic word has been fixed, see information box at top of WP:Editnotice. Johnuniq (talk) 07:45, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Bugs! thanks, I've changed the text.  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:13, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Trains
Could you please elaborate on your comment at Template talk:WikiProject Trains. --Traveler100 (talk) 18:11, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Done  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

publishing an article I wrote
Hello, I am sorry for my confusion and what has transpired in my attempts to publish an article, which I have written and it is in my domain and it is copyrighted under my name. I am not technologically savvy and I am appointing my daughter to complete this project. I hope this unlocks the "locked" position I now have on my username annig1943. Any questions, I would be pleased to answer to clear the confusion I created.Annig1943 (talk) 21:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are not "locked" (or even blocked). It's just the page Ariel Agemian that's locked up. Should you wish to use web content on that page it must be released first. Please see WP:DCM. There is nothing in www.shroud.com/pdfs/agemianbio.pdf which will let us use that material and the home site http://www.shroud.com/ states quite clearly "The entire contents of this website are Copyright 1996-2011 Shroud of Turin Education and Research Association, Inc. (STERA, Inc.), All Rights Reserved, unless otherwise noted." Should you wish to use that material then it has to be released for full re-use (typically CC-BY-SA 3.0 - but there are other licenses allowed). That can be done by obtaining an OTRS ticket or by editing that PDF to show the permission - it makes no difference - assuming one uses CC-By-SA 3.0 then you are still the copyright holder, but you freely release the material for any purpose, (even commercial), providing the use attributes your work. You should also note WP:COI as you have a definite link to the subject. You should also note that just adding data from one site is not going to be easy to let the page be kept - editors will need to see more reliable sources. I would suggest you start the page (but not until you have shown permission) in your user space at User:Annig1943/Ariel Agemian headed with userspace draft until such time as you think the page is complete and ready for moving to the main article space. You might like to read WP:OWN as well, once you put the page in the main space, it's likely to be re-edited.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:48, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the help
I've followed the procedure to give permission for the image in the page that I wrote. Thank you for sending a detailled setp-by-step sequence. Five Senses — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.77.14.50 (talk) 21:45, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked out for it - Image tagged and moved. Thanks  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your help
Thank you for your help on the reference for Douglas_Youvan. It is a complete mystery to me as to how an ISBN (probably purchased from Bowker) gets linked to an e-book on Amazon! Have you seen Bowkers prices? $125.00 for a single-purchased ISBN and $1.00 a piece if you buy a thousand. They must be related to the US Federal Reserve, LOL ... Although I just started editing on here, I've thought hard about raising money for Wikipedia for years. Maybe we can make up article numbers and sell them for referencing! Noncanonical (talk) 23:03, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

WPF1 Newsletter (December)
Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Formula One at 19:53, 3 January 2012 (UTC).

Re:Cycling team OPQ
Thanks anyway; glad you got the idea of it, because it was a stickler, haha! Craig (talk)  22:37, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

File:Haris wiki.jpg
Dear Ron Jones,

You have recently nominated three of the photos I added (File:Haris wiki.jpg,File:KRAVICE.jpg, File:Harisov govor za Tanovicev doktorat.jpg) for a speedy deletion. They were subsequently deleted - before I had a chance to react. I own copyrights for these images and do not understand why you market them as "Unambiguous copyright infringement".

Could you please explain how they qualify for this?

Thank you Bizutage (talk) 12:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC)


 * We have a simple user system on Wikipedia. All users appear equal, and we have no way of saying who the user name actually refers to - anyone can say what they like (more or lees) or who they are, on their user page. Therefore in evaluating permission for images (and text), one of the key items is that it's published on Wikipedia first - any subsequent copies of images or text can therefore be assumed to have been copied from Wikipedia (which Wikipedia allows under it's CC-BY-SA license - although many sites forget the attribution...). We are in the process of moving all free images (over 250,000) images to commons, because they can then be used by all foreign language Wikipedias as well. Commons is very strict on copyright issues, so we tend to check the images first - only since summer 2011 has Google engineered an excellent image search, so images copies can easily be found. If we find an identical or larger image on the internet with an earlier upload date then the only conclusion we can make is that the Wikipedia image came "second", and was probably copied from the other site and we have to tag as F9 - which tend to be deleted very quickly. In the case of your three images...
 * [[File:Haris wiki.jpg]] - tagged as copied from http://www.sutra.ba/slike/drustvo/haris-pasovic2.gif, which was uploaded 09 July 2011 19:15:34, and used on page http://www.sutra.ba/novost/36541/Pasovic-pozvao-umjetnike-da-zatraze-oslobadjanje-generala-Divjaka. Wikipedia upload date was 16:08, 22 November 2011
 * [[File:KRAVICE.jpg]] - tagged as copied from http://afterfade.com/projects/locations/waterfall-bosnia-kravice.jpg, which was uploaded 14 June 2010 01:32:44, and used on page http://afterfade.com/miscellaneous.html. Wikipedia upload date was 18:12, 27 December 2011
 * [[File:Harisov govor za Tanovicev doktorat.jpg]] - tagged as copied from http://unsa.ba/s/images/stories/Aktuelnosti/0,51/pdt10.jpg, which was uploaded 08 June 2011 22:23:10, and used on page http://unsa.ba/s/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=948&Itemid=348. Wikipedia upload date was 15:19, 24 November 2011
 * Thus in all cases the Wikipedia upload date is much later and we cannot use the images as they stand. Should you wish to restore the images, I have to refer you to donating copyright images and in particular the section Granting us permission to copy material already online - but the problems you now have is that the images...
 * Is on the http://www.sutra.ba/ web site which says
 * Is on the http://afterfade.com/ web site which says
 * Is on http://unsa.ba/s/index.php web site which says
 * Effectively, as we see it those sites are claiming to be the copyright holders - I don't know the arrangements of how the images were published on those sites, but we can only work on the data we see. Following the instructions of WP:DCM we would expect to have an e-mail for each picture, from each web site to release the data. I don't know if you can achieve that goal.  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:55, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for a detailed and prompt response. Those websites used my images because I and, the company I work for, granted them permission to do so. However, I will try to donate images by sending them from official company's email address and by submitting them to wikipedia evaluation team. That might help, what do you think? Or should it be better if I just asked websites to remove my images?

Thanks! Bizutage (talk) 08:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

This image is licensed by X under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License or even better with a link to the creative commons page like this HTML... This work is licensed by X under a <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License</a>. - problem solved in one small edit. (change X to whatever you want it to be!)
 * Too many clever editors on Wikipedia! Google images will hold those images long past deletion time and still show a link - one clicks on the link and you can't find the image, next thing one does is to use the Web Archive, and find the old pages, so the same problem arises. I don't know how long it would be before the Google search cache is re-done. Sending the same images to the permission team, I don't think will work well as the images are already published on a different domain, OTRS will need to somehow verify that the images are yours and not the published web sites - I'm not sure about that - I've only just joined the OTRS team - I'm still learning! There are two real solutions...
 * Ask each site to donate the image to Wikipedia - use WP:CONSENT - don't have to send the image, just the full name as it was on Wikipedia (use the permissions-en address as the images are at en-Wiki). Tell me when they have done it, and I can look especially for them - since I have OTRS access. Or they can send a note to say that image X belongs to company Z, then you (from company Z) send the Consent form. We can merge the e-mails when they arrive.
 * If they can each edit the web page to just put a small line under the image (even in a small font), along the lines of
 * Once the image is released - then I can undelete the full image and history and add the required text to it. Then it can be safely moved to commons with all the other free images. The image removal on the article page I can also easily undo to re-place it in it's position.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:07, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

AutoWikiBrowser bug report
Hi. Thanks for your feedback. I archived your bug report. You can find the answer in Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs/Archive 20. Feel free to contact me if you still have questions on the matter. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah that explains it. I'll have to check the options. Thanks,  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:32, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Connexus Ecosystem
Hi Ronhjones, thank you for the comment on the deletion discussion around Connexus Ecosystem. If you could help me have the page userfied, it'd be most appreciated. Thank you Kelliott14 (talk) 14:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Article now User:Kelliott14/Connexus Ecosystem  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:33, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Sent the OTRS to Commons
FYI, Commons servers are down so I uploaded here (was advice from the IRC). Sent the OTRS there, but gave the URL of the wiki page. Will it all get straightened out? Do you guys cooperate (or are you a Commons volunteer also?) (Like I'd readlly like the image file over at Commons eventually, too.  This donation was really hard and valuable to other languages.)

TCO (Reviews needed) 20:38, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I take it you mean File:HF burned hands.jpg. We have access to both queues - I'll keep an eye open for it. When OTRS is granted - it's often moved to commons. Horrible picture! I'm glad I manage to avoid HF generators most of the time (otherwise it's butyl gloves and plenty of calcium gluonate gel handy!).  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:47, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Please advise on why my page was deleted
Hello,

My name is Tony DeSare and am not a regular user of wiki so please forgive my lack of knowledge as to how this works. I have quite an established career as a recording artist, singer and songwriter and continue to tour internationally and play venues from Vegas to Carnegie Hall. Someone recently told me that my wiki page had been deleted a while ago and more people have mentioned that they couldn't find me on wiki so I checked it out. I didn't create my page or update myself so I'm not sure what has been on there recently.

The Wiki presence is an important thing for me (at least to have some representation on it, anyway). Please let me know what I can do to get my page sorted out and reactivated and I will have my management company deal with whatever it is. I'm sure you made your choice for some good reason, but I have no idea what that is. The reason for deletion said something about a copyright infringement of the Atlanta Symphony, which I don't understand. I did just perform with them as their guest artist for a Christmas show and will be back there again this year. My relationship with them is in great standing and there are no problems that I'm aware of.

I would appreciate some guidance on how to better maintain and audit my page for incorrect items that could lead to deletion. By the way, if you're curious about the level of my career and wonder if I warrant having my own page, please start with a google search and you can find major tv and press dating back several years to the present.

Thank you for your attention to this, Tony DeSare

(IP removed) 03:06, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied by e-mail as requested  Ron h jones (Talk) 02:07, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

talkback re deleted image
I left you a message on my talk page continuing our exchange of messages about an image which has been deleted. When you have a moment, could you please let me have a reply on my talk page? Thanks in advance. Winstonsmith99 (talk) 12:05, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Done  Ron h jones (Talk) 17:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Newtown graffiti article - sudden removal of images
Dear Dr Jones,

I hope you'll forgive my crankiness but I am frankly very angry about the recent and sudden deletion of the many images I contributed to the "Newtown graffiti and street art" article. I only discovered this tonight; due to pressure of work in December and my absence from the web over the holiday break I have not accessed Wikipedia for about a month. I was therefore completely unaware of and equally unable to contribute to what seems to have been a remarkably brief and apparently very limited "discussion" of the proposal to delete all my images from the article. Not happy? You bet.

I'd like to make the following points regarding the many original images of "street art" from the Newtown area I placed in the article,:


 * nearly *ALL* the images I placed in that article are original photographs, taken by me over the last 5 years or so


 * as far as I recall all MY photos were all tagged as original and marked for 'free use'


 * the one or two images in there that were not mine were freely given by the owner and should have been clearly attributed to them and tagged appropriately


 * virtually all the works depicted therein were illegally placed - i.e. as far as our local council and many residents are concerned, they're acts of vandalism;


 * the vast majority of the works depicted in those images have since been removed - i.e. my photographs are, in many cases, the only surviving visual record of them


 * some individual creators have been identified and this has been noted where applicable, but in many cases the creators of the graffiti works depicted in my images are, for all practical purposes, unknown and unidentifiable.

Given that the article deals with unique works of street art, most of which no longer exist, I have to strongly contend that the images are absolutely essential to it. I'm also at a loss to understand why the copyright rationale that might fairly apply to a photo of a publicly or commercially-funded work of *legal* mural art could also apply to an original photo of an illegally-placed, unattributable item of graffiti that no longer exists?

I look forward to discussing this matter with you and hope we can revolve this problem and effect a speedy restoration of the deleted images to the article.

regards, Dunks (talk) 12:34, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I proposed the images, the fact is that no one discussed the proposal. I did make some suggestions at Possibly_unfree_files/2011_December_22, but I did not really know a way of saving them - I was hoping someone may come up with better ideas, but there was noting and the deleting admin therefore deleted them (I don't do nominate and delete - unless it's very blatant vandalism). http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/3525355584d00168563bdf.pdf does not distinguish between illegal and non-illegal art, so the only conclusion that gives is that any mural copyright belongs to the owner - it does not matter if the creator is unknown - there are thousands of photographed 2D images on WP/Commons that the owner is unknown - when that happens we just use the standard copyright length from the date of creation. We have images of Northern Ireland Graffiti on en-Wiki (there's plenty of them done in the troubles), as far as I can see they are all uploaded under WP:NFCC criteria, which is OK for a few as each has to have be with relevant discussion - galleries are not allowed. Since the PUF input was low, you might like to consider raising the issue at Media Copyright Questions - maybe more input would be obtained, alternatively you are quite welcome to go for a Deletion Review. The reason that these have been tagged now, is that all free images are being moved to commons, and we have to check them out before we move them - the overall goal is to have no free media on en-Wiki, except a small number of images that cannot be moved to commons because of some foreign copyright laws.  Ron h jones (Talk) 16:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I also researched the Australian copyright site - key word "graffiti" show no hits, I looked at http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/8452777034d001ee11eb7c.pdf, as well as http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/13099529484d645df8f41de.pdf, http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/10416980774d64581f29995.pdf - which also states and found nothing that shows illegal art has no copyright. There is a legal advice service at http://www.copyright.org.au/about-us/ - that might be more definitive.  Ron h jones (Talk) 16:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ron - I'll keep researching and get back to you - just found this | article which might be of some assistance. regards Dunks (talk) 23:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glen_Campbell_live_Goodtime_Theater_Branson_MI.jpg
Hi, concerning this file http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glen_Campbell_live_Goodtime_Theater_Branson_MI.jpg i sent an email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org on dec 5th but there has been no reply so far. Only two days left until the deadline. What happens if the deadline expires and there has been no reply yet? Lumdeloo (talk) 09:21, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * OTRS is staffed by volunteers, I think there is a about a two weeks delay at present. If it did get deleted then they would ask for undelete (nothing ever gets really deleted), since you have confirmed that you have sent the e-mail, I'll change the date and add a OTRS pending template for you. Ronhjones  (Talk) 17:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Lumdeloo (talk) 21:13, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, in two days the deadline expires again, still no reply from OTRS. Next week I will be on holiday, so I would appreciate it if you could extend the deadline again. Thanks in advance and a Merry Christmas! Lumdeloo (talk) 20:29, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Tis the season of goodwill, so OK. Ronhjones  (Talk) 20:47, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I decided to not bug you again with extending the deadline because I still haven't heard from OTRS yet, after more than a month. But now I regret it, because a certain editor called "Fastily" (I wish HE was a volunteer at OTRS) removed the file the minute the deadline expired, apparantly ignoring the OTRS pending message completely. I hope you can advise me on what to do? Thanks in advance.Lumdeloo (talk) 22:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, we both are (now) - but we only tend to answer when we are confident about replying (OTRS is rather a steep learning curve). I've found the 4 e-mails and linked them together, I'll reply from OTRS.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:36, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

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Advise re legal threat
I modified some images uploaded under CC-BY-SA-3.0, removing branding labels. The original uploader is threatening legal action here. One of us has misunderstood the right to modify with attribution. I noticed you have been in communication with that editor concerning some of these images. Please advise. Joja lozzo  17:40, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:NLT. User blocked. User's should not edit while legal threats are outstanding. I would expect any unblock request to have to agree for him to remove that line from your talk page (so please don't remove it yourself)  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:11, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * In your opinion, was it ok to modify the images as I did? Joja  lozzo  22:01, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I see no problems - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
 * You have adapted the work to just remove a logo - it has no effect on the overall subject (in reality the item would work just as well with or without the logo, it's not a functioning part of the subject). Logos and watermarks are often removed from images here. You have correctly attributed the work, and applied the same CC license. I suspect the user was hoping for a bit of free advertising...  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:16, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You have adapted the work to just remove a logo - it has no effect on the overall subject (in reality the item would work just as well with or without the logo, it's not a functioning part of the subject). Logos and watermarks are often removed from images here. You have correctly attributed the work, and applied the same CC license. I suspect the user was hoping for a bit of free advertising...  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:16, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

DevOps criticism section added back
Hi, you helped me out with an issue with a badly sourced, negative section continually being added back to the DevOps article. A new anonymous editor has added the section back again. I reverted it, but I'm guessing they'll try to get it back. I've added a message to this new anonymous user's talk page about visiting the article's talk page. Onlynone (talk) 19:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Both resolve to good old BT - as one who lives in UK, BT always use dynamic IP - I would wager they are the same person. Only one way to stop the IP hopping vandals - Page is semi-protected.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Message also placed on Talk:DevOps to explain the protection.  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:06, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Toying around with new file upload mechanism
Hi Ronhjones, User:Maryana (WMF) told me you might be interested in discussing ideas about a new file upload mechanism. I've been toying around with a wizard-like upload form I have drafted at User:Future Perfect at Sunrise/Upload forms draft. The wizard functionality works with javascript, which is currently at User:Future Perfect at Sunrise/uploadscript.js. So far, it doesn't actually do anything yet; it just displays the sequence of input elements and prompts, as a kind of "proof of concept".

If people think it worthwhile, it might be deployed as a gadget some day, but it will take some more work. Any feedback, ideas, improvements or help with the further coding would be greatly appreciated.

Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:50, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You might like to compare it with what I started at Image copyright wizard - that was a no script system - just to try to find the correct template and show it. The trouble I see with yours is line 1 - "This file is entirely my own work" - defining "my own work" is the key issue - far, far, too many people (even more so in the far east...) regard the picture taken with their own camera in their own hands to be "theirs". Then we get into all the issues - e.g.
 * Picture of a Flordia Disneyworld monster - US,3D art, post 1990 - not allowed.
 * Picture of the Louvre pyramid - new(ish) French building, no Freedom of Panorama for buildings. - not allowed
 * Look at Seoul Metropolitan Subway stations - I think all those images will have to go - haven't got round to all of them yet - South Korea - no Freedom of Panorama for buildings. - not allowed
 * Pictures of posters, DVD covers, book covers, etc.
 * and many, many more. The uploader will say "I took this myself, so I offer for use in Wikipedia"
 * Best one for last - screenshot of Pakistan TV - with something like "picture is freely sent out, so I can take it and upload it here"
 * I was trying to break down into sections what the subject was that the editor had taken, and then trying to lead them onto the correct section. It's sort of gone into a bit of limbo - when I saw the potential list of tags at WP:ICT/ALL then my heart sunk quite a bit.
 * Since I've been involved this month with WikiProject_Images_and_Media/Commons/Drives/Jan_2012, I realise that I really need to change the Image copyright wizard/Free media page and try to steer the editor to commons - otherwise as fast as we are moving the images from en-Wiki to commons, others are uploading more images - it's like trying to empty a bath with the taps full on!
 * Good luck with the coding - it takes me ages to get js just right - usually I forget a ; somewhere! I learnt far too many computer languages, and sometimes it gets a bit muddled...  Ron h jones (Talk) 00:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your thoughts. I had also considered adding special categories for the "photograph of artwork" ("double-copyright") situations. Unfortunately, I came to the conclusion that they are just so complex and manifold that putting them into this wizard structure would more or less blow up the whole thing. That's because the problem poses itself not only with the "own work" photographs, but with others too. Basically, we have a three-dimensional classification of situations, where almost every combination is possible:


 * 1) Kind of object:
 * 2) 2-dimensional artwork
 * 3) 3-dimensional artwork, in F.o.P. situation
 * 4) 3-dimensional artwork, in Non-F.o.P. situation
 * 5) Status of object:
 * 6) PD-old
 * 7) Copyrighted, legitimate fair use / NFCC situation
 * 8) Copyrighted, not fair use
 * 9) Free release by artist
 * 10) Status of photograph:
 * 11) Uploader's own work
 * 12) Third party photographer, with free license
 * 13) Third party photographer, without free license
 * 14) Artist's own work
 * I'm really not sure how to package that.


 * As for the "free images go to Commons" topic, that's another stumbling block. I'm a bit skeptical about pushing people too hard in that direction, because it may come across as sending conflicting messages. In terms of copyright policy, we want to send them the message: "free files good, non-free files bad". But now, in terms of uploading venues, we're also sending the message: "free files bad, non-free files good". Quite confusing. And surely the first message is fundamentally the more important one to get across. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:59, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I doubt if we could stop them adding free a one to en-WP if they so want - unless there's some policy change OR some clever software by the Foundation to route a free upload straight to commons (wouldn't that be nice! - where do we suggest that option?). We just need to advise them that they can upload here (and it will be moved later by volenteers), or they may try to upload to commons direct. I would like to at least tell them that it will end up on commons - I do get the feeling that there are some uploaders who upload to en-wiki, rather than commons, because they feel/know that there's more chance of the image being kept... ;-) As for your list - I'm with you all the way, but how do explain such a complex situation to the layman? The way my "wizard" was going was not going to be for use at upload time - it's too involved and will only be more so, but more as a potential solution when the editor get a nice CSD appearing on his talk page.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * About the photo-of-artwork scenarios: I'm basically still at a loss. I'm trying to come up with a decision workflow that can be modelled in the upload wizard, but it's really hard to do without adding a huge lot of complexity and duplication of stuff. About the Free-files-to-Commons thing, how about the following scenario:
 * (a) our new wizard tries to figure out if the user has a unified account on Commons. (Should be possible through some API calls)
 * (b) if the user has provided a decent account of the copyright situation and it's a free file, and if he has a Commons account, the wizard adds a set of radio buttons at the bottom, right above the "submit" button:
 * [[File:Radio button on.png]] Yes, I want this file to be available on all Wikipedias and its sister projects in all languages. It will be hosted on the Wikimedia Commons wiki.
 * [[File:Radio button off.png]] No, I want this file to be available only on the English Wikipedia. It will be hosted locally on this wiki (but somebody else might later decide to move it to Commons anyway.)
 * (c) if the user chooses the Commons option, the wizard opens a pop-up window to make sure the user is logged in at Commons, and then sends the upload API command straight there. This might be technically possible.
 * However, I think I would want to add this functionality only after a testing period to see how many bad uploads are still made after the change in the description forms. Because right now the proportion of bad items among the (claimed) free uploads is so high I think we wouldn't want to dump them on Commons unfiltered. It's easier to keep track of the bad apples if they upload here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a nice logical sequence - I agree that we need a system to try to filter out the bad uploads (sorry, most of the bad uploads - nothing will ever be perfect!) before we can consider some pass through to commons, another idea that did come to mind was some sort of potential move to commons added automatically when a free upload was declared - just to put it in some category for checking and then moving.  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:19, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

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Re:Leandro's moves
It's a tough one, because it started out at 2011 Trofeo Línea season (through a likely sock of his, Leandro de Souza on 27/1), before being moved to 2011 Trofeo Linea season (on Leandrokillers, on 15/8), and went to the eventual 2011 Trofeo Linea Brasil season on 2/1 this year. I have no idea really which it is meant to be...His edits are baffling to say the least... Craig (talk)  02:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep an eye on . Seems to be similar patterns to our Brazilian friend. Craig  (talk)  13:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

A walking kitten!!!
A walking kitten for the fast paced administrator. Thanks for IPBE

/\ talk←   Aviyal   →track ) /\ 20:54, 24 January 2012 (UTC) <br style="clear: both"/>

deleting pictures
The Wikipedia page "User talk:Mattsnapper" has been changed on 24 January 2012 by Ronhjones, with the edit summary: Notification: tagging for deletion of File:GGM frontcover.jpg. (TW)

Hi

Sorry but I simply can not get my head around on how to change the copyright instructions as asked.

I am the author of the self published book, art work, photography and design. I am the sole copyright holder. Therefore there are no issues with me providing information or artwork for the wiki page.

Matthew Ashton — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattsnapper (talk • contribs) 10:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Matthew. The issue here is that while you say you are Matthew Ashton, we don't know you are, and in cases where someone uploads a book cover or the like, it is generally sensible to assume that the upload is a copyright violation - we get a lot of those. The number of people who simply find an image on the net and think "it was online, therefore I own it" is truly quite stunning, and so in cases like this we ask that the uploader prove they are the copyright holder. The easiest way to do this is via an email to OTRS from your domain, saying you are who you say you are, you understand what releasing the image under a free licence entails, and what licence you release it under. It's just a measure of assurance that we aren't being taken for a ride. I know it's a hassle, but we're trying to protect your copyright. -mattbuck (Talk) 11:11, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Mattbuck is quite correct, I can add - use the form at WP:CONSENT, let me know when sent, and I will keep an eye out for it.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

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thx re: 'articles about a single book'
Thanks for your reply to my help request about articles about a single book on my talk page. Mathglot (talk) 23:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback, always willing to help where I can.  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

User:Wicka wicka
Hi Ron,

Sorry to have to come to you like this, but the one administrator that I usually talk to about issues is currently inactive, and I'm having a bit of an issue that needs a quick resolution. I remember that you addressed one of my requests for page protection (or something similar), so I thought I'd ask you to take a look at a situation regarding a user, Wicka wicka.

It has been a long-standing consensus at WikiProject - Formula 1 that season articles do not contain details of release dates for cars competing in an upcoming season. The reason for this is that the dates do not actually affect the course of a season the way - for example - a new race being added to the calendar does. It makes no difference if a car is released on February 26th or on February 27th. Therefore, the editors involved in the WikiProject feel that the best place for information about a car's launch is on the dedicated page for that car, such as this one, the Caterham CT01.

However, Wicka wicka disputes this. He believes a table of data should be included in the article. He initially raised his objections on the current season talk page, though several users have noticed that he is particularly aggressive in the way he presents his argument. It was explained to him that consensus does not support the inclusion of car launch dates, and that if he wished to discuss things further, then he would be more than welcome to start a discussion either at the current talk page, or at the WikiProject itself. Rather than start any new discussion, he has taken to addressing individual members, and he is starting to get very aggressive, to the point of personal attacks. In order to best illustrate this, I will include some highlights from the 2012 talk page, his talk page, my own and that of Bretonbanquet, another editor he has been discussing the matter with. But please be aware - he starts swearing when he starts getting angry:


 * ''You people are the worst, honestly. Car launch dates are a useful piece of information, period, and should be included in the article. Nothing else matters other than that. Ask yourself: are there people out there who might want that information? If the answer is "yes," it belongs in the article. Wikipedia is going downhill fast. All you people do these days is create arbitrary standards of what is and isn't "notable" when in reality you should just include everything, because it's a fucking website and not a physical book.


 * ''You are insane. It's a piece of information about the 2012 season. It belongs in the 2012 article, full stop. There's nothing else to it, especially not your bullshit assertions of what does and doesn't count as relevant to the season. You're making all this shit up.


 * ''Then make sure they don't give me so many reasons to disrespect them. Rational discourse doesn't go very far in a place that is governed by stunningly irrational rules. "The launch dates of the 2012 cars don't belong on the article for the 2012 season." Are you kidding me? Can you read that without gasping in shock from the inherent ignorance of it?


 * ''NO. THAT IS NOT HOW LOGIC WORKS. THOSE ARE TERRIBLE, AWFUL, INANE AND IRRELEVANT REASONS. We are talking about launch dates for 2012 CARS in a fucking article for the 2012 SEASON. THERE IS NO WAY YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

As you can see, he has become increasingly aggressive, and - at the risk of editorialising - seems to feel that he is the only person capable of intelligent thought. Ever since he first posted on the 2012 talk page, he has been directed to the talk page and the WikiProject multiple times, has been reminded of the need for civility and warned against personal attacks, and yet persists in his behaviour. Further investigation of his edits and his talk page reveals that this has become something of a repeated problem for him.

For the time being, Wicka wicka's behaviour has been limited to my talk page, and the actual articles have gone uninterrupted. However, in the past twenty-four hours he has started this routine with other members, and I do not know how much longer he can be contained. For now I have posted a message at the WikiProject warning other members not to engage him and to be on the look-out for any disruptive edits he may cause (though as he has not actualy edited the actual articles, I suspect he does not know how to code tables). Nevertheless, I think that this has gone on for long enough, and that the time for adminstrator intervention is now. I do apologise for interrupting such a fine Friday morning (is it morning in England? I'm Australian) with such an extensive and tiresome episode, but having observed Wicka wicka for the past few days, I honestly do believe that everything that can be done by regular editors has been done, and that it is time to call in a higher power. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:23, 27 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I've left a message - hopefully he will now engage in a proper discussion at the project's talk, where all this should be done. It's possible he's not been active within a project that has such a nice fixed manual of style (and many active editors sticking to the MoS) - that might be quite new to him. Hopefully, I've explained all that enough to show how change may be suggested and discussed.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. I suppose you are having a nice cold beer in a nice warm climate, whereas we are freezing our socks off :-( - there was snow on my window last night, the local radio announced that the Kirkstone Pass is closed (as usual on the first flake of snow).  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Hopefully that will encourage him to engage in actual discussion instead of resorting to "you're all idiots because you disagree with me", or at least keep him contained for the time being. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 01:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Requests for comment/F&aelig;
A request for comments has been opened on administrator User:Fæ. You are being notified due to your prior participation in ANI, RfA, or RfC discussions regarding this user. Thank you, MadmanBot (talk) 19:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Lotus E20
Hey Ron,

I hate to bother you again, but I'm hoping that you can take a quick look at the Lotus E20 page. Another user and I are having a dispute over exactly what should be included in the page, and unfortauntely, we can't really come to a consensus over at WP:F1 because the conversation keeps getting off-topic. The issue is basically this:

The current version of the article states the reasoning behind the choice of name in the lead of the article. This, I feel, is as the article should be. We have never really dedicated much more to the names of car chassis in the past. If a reason is given, then the reason is included, but not much more. The other person in this disagreement wants to include a dedicated sub-section in the article, further explaining the chocie behind the name. However, I feel that this subsection simply repeats what is already in the article lead. Twice.

Furthermore, I and several other users have noticed that this particular user is very close to the Lotus issue; almost undesirably so, and at least one other editor feels that this user might be getting close to POV pushing. I'm hoping you can take a quick look at this because it might get to that unique brand of messy that only the Formula 1 community can manage. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you are doing quite well at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One - You are (I count) three to one, not bad odds - it's mainly opinions, there's no real policy to quote - except WP:LEDE - I see Falcadore has removed the section - I agree with his summary - we don't want the information duplicated - and they were too similar. If it continues, then I can only suggest to start a WP:RFC section following the bit on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One, then we all chip in, gives time for many more editors to say their piece, and 30 days later some admin will close the discussion. I would just try for you three (or more if any others agree) to keep it as it is, only RFC if necessary.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem is that conversations keep running off on a tangent. I've tried to reset the conversation on the Talk page for the E20, and hopefully we'll make some quick progress there. If we can't decide, then I'll put in an RFC. Thanks again. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 04:14, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry to have to do this, ron, but DeFacto has gone and done it again. He is now removing large sections of the Lotus E20 article, claiming that they are based entirely on original research and are mostly speculative. This is content that has been included on other pages, but he has not seen fit to remove it from there despite the prominence of the issue when it was reported. No other users have complained about this content. I myself wrote that section that he removed, and while I am not claiming to own it, I did make sure that it was acceptable when I wrote it, just as I have done with any other tenchical content (F-ducts, off-throttle blown diffusers, DRS and so on) in the past. I have never received any complaints about this before, so I have to ask why content that has been deemed acceptable on one page has been arbitrarily removed from another, with a user demanding that a consensus be reached on its acceptablity. I should note here that when DeFacto first wrote the E20 article, he did not mention the development of the RRH system, again despite its prominence, and the timing of its removal from the page coincides with other users disagreeing with his comments on the naming issue. I would bring this up at WP:F1, but there have been multiple instances of Lotus-related issues being brought up there, only to quickly become incomprehensible when DeFacto joins the conversation. As has been pointed out on the WP talk page, we're beating a dead horse, and have been for some time.

So I think that both the Lotus E20 page and DeFacto's behaviour need to be closely looked at. I'm going to put in a request for page protection for now, pending the resolution of the issue. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 03:15, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Excuse me Ronhjones for butting in here, but this needs clarifying...
 * Prisonermonkeys needs to stick with the facts. I haven't "done" anything "again", other than remove unworthy content. I removed one section, with a precise summary of the reasons why on the edit summary, and a full line-by-line explanation on the talkpage. Prisonermonkeys reverted my change with no explanation at all, and with not attempt to justify it on the talkpage. Each article stands alone, and I haven't seen this content elsewhere, but if Prisonermonkeys has added, or is aware, the same poor quality content elsewhere, I suggest they review it and improve it there too, rather than coming here to whinge about it, and wasting other people's valuable time. -- de Facto (talk). 07:26, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


 * You have a conflict of interests in removing that content. Your original creation of that page made no mention of the content that you declare to be unworthy and you constantly add content to the page despite a preliminary consensus against it. How can I be certain that you know what is best for the page when you have clearly shown that you will repeatedly ignore consenus? I'm sorry to have to do this on your talk page, Ron, but at least we're doing this in a space where an administrator can see it. I believe DeFacto is in violation of WP:OWN; he seems to be under the impression that the final say with all of the Lotus-related pages rests with him - even when consensus opposes it. He has violated WP:NPOV by constantly affixing undue weight to content that is of little importance and removing content that, under his own definition of WP:RS - as it has been reported in at least three incredibly-reliable sources (James Allen, Autosport and the BBC) - should be included. Furthermore, he has ignored a WP:RFP, editing the page as he sees fit while the request for protection is under review, and has come dangerously close to WP:3RR on several occasions. And every time this comes up on the WP:F1 talk page, DeFacto shows up the discussions seem to go off on a tangent just as we get close to a consensus against his proposed edits, and the issue is never resolved, which I believe is an attempt to sabotage the discussion to prevent the consensus from going through. All of this amounts to a POV push by DeFacto. Why, I do not know. I am aware that these are serious accusations, but I believe he has violated several Wikipedia policies on multiple occasions, and I cannot overlook them anymore. Sadly, I can no longer assume good faith in any of his edits related to the Lotus pages.


 * I would take this to the WP:DRN, but I don't actually know how to do that because I;ve never done it before. And I beleive that as soon as I do it, DeFacto will add me to it, and it will become my word against his. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 08:11, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that's been started already - I suggest you move over to DRN to continue.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:00, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 04:00, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

User_talk:Weissbier
Nice Idea to get a permission from my old mate Frank. But he died in 2010, nice of you not to ask. ... and thanks for the "conversation". Weissbier (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I can only go by what was cited on the German Wikipedia - 5:25, 6th October 2009 Juta deleted "File: C kong.jpg" (For at least 14 days without proper licensing). If the de-Wiki version was deleted, then the en-Wiki one has to be the same, unless some new facts can be shown.  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:26, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Which was wrong in the first place, but now it is too late. Someone went berzerk in de and delted it without asking me who knew the whereabouts of Frank. Weissbier (talk) 11:37, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect it would not have made any difference. I just looked at the picture, it's a screenshot of a video game. You cannot gain the copyright by taking a photo of a screen. The copyright will always belong to the author/company that produced the video game. If you look at File:Donkey Kong NES Screenshot.png - you'll see that this is only here under a fair use system, as Nintendo are the copyright owners. If you think your picture could be used in an article under fair use, then let me know and I will restore it for you to add the correct templates - please read up WP:NFCC to make sure that you think it would comply with all 10 points (Note that if restored the size would be reduced to 300px wide for fair use).  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:56, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Gianolibrad'oro.gif
Hi, I thought I should notify you out of courtesy that I've declined your di request at File:Gianolibrad'oro.gif. As you probably know, all of the speedy deletion processes are designed for uncontroversial deletions. As you can see from the page, the uploader claims copyright by virtue of taking a photograph of a 3-D object. There is therefore sufficient contention to make di an inappropriate process to use. If, having reviewed the page, you still believe that the uploader does not have a valid claim to the copyright of the image, then I'd be happy to debate it with you at WP:FfD. Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You can have a PUF if your prefer.  Ron h jones (Talk) 01:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Confusion on File:GibbPostOffice.jpg and File:GibbsTrainDepot.jpg
Hi Ron, posting here in hopes of clearing my confused state. The two files you tagged I clearly licensed into public domain, or so I thought. Doesn't that mean they can be freely used by any and all? If not what else do I need to do? I don't care so much about the File:GibbsPostOffice.jpg as it probably should be removed anyhow. The US Postal Service has decided to permanently close the Gibbs location.

However the other photo, File:GibbsTrainDepot.jpg has historical relevance to the text of the article and should remain. That particular file would also qualify as public domain as it was first published in 1911. I have possession of the photo and usage rights through a deceased family member. A great uncle of mine was a semiprofessional photographer in northeast Missouri for over 50 years and took the original photo. He's long deceased, but knowing my love of history, family have passed a large number of his photos down to me for use as I see fit. So I decided to just license it for free use/public domain. Make sense? Any help greatly appreciated! Sector001 (talk) 07:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


 * If you note the file history
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:GibbPostOffice.jpg&oldid=468481432
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:GibbsTrainDepot.jpg&oldid=468511644
 * You will see that they were tagged as "priority candidate in the January 2012 Move to Commons Drive", hence I was looking to move them - however there are lots of bad images on en-Wiki, so in the process of moving them, we also have to tag the bad ones (commons is much more strict, and will delete any bad ones very quickly - and the way the transfer works means that the original uploader on en-wiki does not get the deletion message from commons!).
 * It's things like "created this work entirely by myself" which ring alarm bells.
 * My view is that the best way to ensure that we keep them is to get an OTRS ticket for them - would you be willing to copy the form I've made for you at User:Ronhjones/OTRS to permissions-en@wikimedia.org? (you need to fill in one line near the end for name and address - bit in brackets) - then I'll look out for it on OTRS and we'll make a ticket for them  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:22, 2 February 2012 (UTC)