User talk:Ronny Cohen

A belated welcome!
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Again, welcome! Aristophanes 68  (talk)  15:29, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Psalms
I have reverted your reversion of my editing to the section in the Psalms article on Editorial Agenda. Wikipedia works by other editors adapting, correcting, and changing one another's work - it is not enough for you to say that the changes were "unwarranted" and revert them. I had added wikilinks and fixed grammar, as well as removing text that I thought gave undue weight to certain positions. Please attempt to understand the work other editors do rather than simply reverting, and if necessary, engage in a discussion with reasons why you disagree with their editing. Also, this edit summary indicates that you have a conflict of interest regarding the information you are adding to the article (Mitchell's views) in that it is from your own publication. This means you should be particularly careful about inserting it and discuss proposed changes on the article's talk page before including them. Melcous (talk) 06:45, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Reply to Melcous
Thank you for your clarification. I feel that your editing of my comments showed bias. Could you please explain why you think Wilson's view is more important than Mitchell's? Yes, I shall keep the links you set up. (I am unaware of any grammatical errors: perhaps you could explain.) But I shall restore the comments on Mitchell's work, so that Wilson and Mitchell each have six lines. I trust you will agree that the two dominant views on the redaction of the Psalms ought to be treated with equal respect.

Ronny Cohen (talk) 21:00, 5 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Ronny, sorry I had just not had a chance to get back to you. I'm not sure what you mean about a paragraph disappearing but I have not removed anything here - if you click on "View history" at the top of any page including this one you will be able to see exactly what has been added or removed and by whom.
 * In terms of the Psalms article, personally I would not see Wilson and Mitchell as "the two dominant views" as you do. I think Wilson's view is seminal, but since then any number of scholars as well as Mitchell have written on the topic (e.g. McCann, deClaissé-Walford, Grant, Gillingham, Nasuti just to name a few) and so it feels to me like undue weight to present Mitchell's view as if it is the main response to/alternative to/development of Wilson's thesis. It may be that some of those other views should be included as well, or that Wilson's proposal should be the focus of the section, or it may be that the consensus is with you that Mitchell's view is equally significant as Wilson's. I think this is a better discussion to have on the article's talk page, so we can see what other editors think and try to find a consensus around what should be included. I will start a discussion there. Thanks Melcous (talk) 02:48, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Ronny, obviously still waiting to see if any other editors want to contribute to the discussion at the article talk page. In the meantime, I am wondering if you would be willing to clarify whether you do or do not have a conflict of interest regarding your comment about Mitchell's work as "our publication." This may or may not be an issue, but understanding this could at the very least help you see why other editors (such as myself) might be reluctant to simply accept your additions to an article when they appear to be designed to promote the views of one particular scholar with whom you may have an external relationship of some kind, which can also make you look like you might be a single purpose editor with an agenda. I hope that makes sense, please have a look at those articles and know that I am not trying to "accuse" you of anything, but rather clarify and make you aware of some of guidelines at wikipedia - which works by consensus and is not, for example, an academic journal. Regards, Melcous (talk) 03:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Ronny, thanks for your message. I will reply here but probably also make some comments on the article talk page. Have you had a look at the links I posted above?
 * By the way, you can reply to me here if it is easier - because of this conversation, I am "watching" this page so will be notified when you respond here.
 * Yes at this stage there doesn't seem to be other editors interested, although it has not actually been very long and there is no rush. I have however been doing some thinking and re-reading of wikipedia policies and I think there are two that might be particularly helpful in resolving this issue: No Original Research and more specifically, Primary and Secondary Sources. While you and I both might be interested in, and even have expertise in, this topic, I think we are in heading towards (and probably have already, particularly the last paragraph in the section) including original research in the Psalms article under Editorial Agenda. Any time an editor includes their opinion, analysis, or even synthesis of published sources, that is what WP calls "original research" and it is not allowed. This is what makes WP an encyclopaedia (a Tertiary source) rather than an academic journal or such. The distinction may seem subtle, and it may seem counter-intuitive, but it is important. A good example, I think, was on the Psalms of Ascents page. I had included a statement that "Many scholars" think something and referenced it to Hossfeld and Zenger. You disputed this saying "Hossfeld is only one person." The point, however, is that Hossfeld and Zenger is a reliable, secondary source, and THEY make the claim that "many scholars" think that. So the statement is referenced to them correctly. If, on the other hand, I was to cite five different scholars who I had independently read and make the claim that they represent "many scholars" thinking something, that would actually be original research - see WP:RS/AC.
 * So, with the editorial agenda, it seem to me that Mitchell's work is a primary source for Mitchell's views, just as Wilson's work is a primary source for Wilson's views. You or I then considering how to explain the significance, weight or acceptance of these views is original research. What we need is a Secondary source that discusses the range of views on the editing of the Psalter, and we should summarise what that source (or sources) says, and cite the secondary source as the reference. There are already a number of good secondary sources cited in the article, commentaries on Psalms which consider a range of scholars view for example, which would be good starting places for this. If you would like to do some work on this that would be great, or I'm happy to - although it won't be quick as I am quite busy at the moment. If you can have a read through the WP:OR policy if you have not already that would be helpful. Let me know you thoughts after that. Thanks, Melcous (talk) 02:14, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

License tagging for File:CantataB.jpg
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File copyright problem with File:CantataB.jpg
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File:CantataB.jpg listed for discussion
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Wikipedia and copyright
Hello Ronny Cohen. All or some of your addition(s) to Messiah ben Joseph has had to be removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. While we appreciate your contributing to Wikipedia, there are certain things you must keep in mind about using information from your sources to avoid copyright or plagiarism issues here.


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