User talk:Rosewoodstories

Welcome!
  Hello, Rosewoodstories!  Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

  Getting Started

Tutorial Learn everything you need to know to get started. Introduction to contributing • Editing

• Referencing

• Images

• Tables

• Policies and guidelines

• Talk pages

• Navigating

• Manual of Style

The Teahouse Ask questions and get help from experienced editors.

The Task Center Learn what Wikipedians do and discover how to help.

Tips 
 * Don't be afraid to edit! Just find something that can be improved and make it better. Other editors will help fix any mistakes you make.
 * It's normal to feel a little overwhelmed, but don't worry if you don't understand everything at first—it's fine to edit using common sense.
 * If an edit you make is reverted, you can discuss the issue at the article's talk page. Be civil, and don't restore the edit unless there is consensus.
 * Always use edit summaries to explain your changes.
 * When adding new content to an article, always include a citation to a reliable source.
 * If you wish to edit about a subject with which you are affiliated, read our conflict of interest guide and disclose your connection.
 * Have fun! Your presence in the Wikipedia community is welcome.

Happy editing! Cheers, –CaroleHenson (talk) 15:15, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Gabriel Prosser
I updated Gabriel's article to return his surname, with a note about how he came to have the Prosser surname here. A google search of "Gabriel Prosser" rebellion returns 30,000 results. There are about 13,800 results for "Gabriel's rebellion" -"Gabriel Prosser", which means calling him Gabriel Prosser is appropriate.–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:22, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I know it is going to be difficult to correct an historical and popular usage error especially when compounded by the internet and pop culture. However, all primary source material refer to this remarkable young man only as Gabriel. The only time his slaveholder's name is used with his is to refer to him as "Prosser's Gabriel" or "Gabriel of Prosser plantation" to clarify ownership. Given Thomas Prosser's own records, the events of 1800, the court records, newspaper accounts and letters between officials and others, if his name had been Gabriel Prosser, it would have appeared somewhere in those records. But it does not. He is always only listed as Gabriel, just as his brothers are always only listed by their given names, Martin and Solomon. The days between Gabriel's conviction and killing by hanging provide the last possible window for him to declare a surname, but he did not. No story from his lifetime passes down through any descendants with any reference to his use of that name. And while he was known to be literate, he left no documents behind so we cannot know how he referred to himself. But considering that he led an attempted rebellion against slavery including against his own slave holder, it is difficult to imagine that he would take that name if he had lived to do so.
 * The Library of Virginia holds most primary sources related to Gabriel's life and the events surrounding the attempted rebellion https://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/deathliberty/alldocs.htm#gabriel
 * The documents in the Library of Virginia page don't need to use his surname. It's obvious, he's owned by Prosser.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:59, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * These secondary sources never call him Gabriel Prosser: Philip Schwarz editor of Gabriel's Conspiracy: A Documentary History (2012) a compilation of primary source documents, most of which are held at Library of Virginia; Michael L. Nicholls Whispers of Rebellion: Narrating Gabriel's Conspiracy (2012); James Sidbury Ploughsahares into Swords: Race, Rebellion, and Identity in Gabriel's Virginia 1730-1810 (1997); and Douglas Egerton Gabriel's Rebellion & the Slave Conspiracies of 1800 & 1802 (1993), pp. 19-20. Rosewoodstories (talk) 01:00, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Based on a google search of the first three books, it's not true that "Gabriel Prosser" is never used in any of those books, although Sidbury liked to state: Prosser's . I'm just guessing it's also in the fourth.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:08, 18 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The blackpast.org quote and the Chicago Tribune piece clearly make use of a generality - that some enslaved people took or were assigned the names of their slaveholders. Neither of them cites any source that specifically states that Gabriel's surname was Prosser. What I understand though, is that at some point, long after his death, someone decided to call him Gabriel Prosser and it stuck. But it should not be presented as if it is fact. Rosewoodstories (talk) 01:15, 18 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Here's an article from 1913 that calls him "Gabriel Prosser". I was going to go to do a bit more searching, but I think I will sort out the article changes you have made first.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:00, 18 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Off the top of my head, here are some articles about how surnames were used for slaves - and helped sort out the different Sallys, Josephs, etc. and their lineage (complicated by rape): Harriet Tubman's family, Sally Hemings, Edith Hern Fossett (as well as Thomas Jefferson and slavery), and List of enslaved people of Mount Vernon.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Lastly, see "If an examination of the sources in an article shows that one name or version of the name stands out as clearly the most commonly used in the English language, we should follow the sources and use it." in Naming conventions (use English). I have already stated that there are about three times more uses of "Gabriel Prosser" than no use of Prosser when searching on "Gabriel's Rebellion".–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:42, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand the enslaved people did often take on the name of the people who owned them. But there were many who never took or were permitted a last name. We also know that people changed their names. It is fact that Gabriel was owned by Thomas Prosser and then Thomas Prosser, Jr. What I am trying to emphasize is that the primary documents from his lifetime he was referred to as "Gabriel" or "Prosser's Gabriel" (to clarify ownership). What people decided to call him for various reasons after that doesn't change the fact that "Gabriel Prosser" was not how he was referred to during his lifetime (and I would find it astounding that he would ever have called himself Prosser). It is clearly unreasonable of me to want the historiography to stick rigidly to the use of "Gabriel" in their own tellings of the man and the history. I get that. And I understand that Wikipedia has protocols that are useful to the search. But I do think it important to at least mention that all uses of "Gabriel Prosser" came into being (and popular acceptance) after his death. Rosewoodstories (talk) 15:22, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

November 2022
Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits to Gabriel Prosser, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. Changing the meaning of wording from a source, which is what you appear to have done regarding Gabriel's surname since there was no direct or verifiable page to check and your language is different from wording that I found in the book, to fit with your view is original research and is unacceptable for an encyclopedia. –CaroleHenson (talk) 02:26, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Learning about Wikipedia
This is a great start for learning how to edit in Wikipedia: Help:Introduction. Teahouse is a great resource for asking questions. I am also happy to help along the way as well.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:29, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Gabriel Prosser: Infobox update
I have reverted the edit you made here, because:


 * The infobox summarized information in that second section that had citations.
 * Your changing the information meant that the infobox was now out-of-synch with the content of the article
 * Essentially you were replacing cited content with uncited content, which is a problem.

If you question the information in the article, especially as a new user, it would be good to start a conversation on the article talk page, in this case Talk:Gabriel Prosser... with a source or sources for content and the reason why it's better than what's in the article.

I am happy to help sort this out.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:56, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * edit noted above.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:22, 18 November 2022 (UTC)