User talk:RoySmith/Archive 20

Articles for deletion/Edelgard Huber von Gersdorff
Hi, I see that you regularly close AfDs as "delete", without invoking WP:ATD. I wonder why in this case, where you say that there is a "clear consensus to delete", you decide for "redirect" even though literally nobody in that AfD !voted that way. I could understand a "delete and redirect", but aa simple "redirect" when there was a "clear consensus to delete" seems a bit weird to me. Thanks. --Randykitty (talk) 09:04, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The redirect suggestion was in the AfD nomination itself, so it seems a good redirect. Hello another Randy. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:55, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Randy :-) Creating a redirect as suggested after deletion, fine. But I find it weird not to delete against such a clear consensus. --Randykitty (talk) 12:06, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, she was 112 years old and close to a record-breaker. I would have commented 'Keep' on the AfD (I don't venture into the sad realm of AfD often, too many good articles are put up by too many editors, often on a daily basis, without an initial gateway which would be useful). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:21, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The point is not to re-litigate the AfD. It's to understand why the close was so different from the consensus. --Randykitty (talk) 12:26, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

When I turn an existing article into a redirect, I ask myself, Is the existing text something that needs to be removed because it's in violation of our TOU (copyvio, WP:BLP problems, etc), or just something that's not notable? If the answer is that it's just not notable, I don't see any reason to actually delete the underlying text. That was the case here.

I also look at what people wrote in the AfD. If people are explicitly saying, delete, then redirect, I'll generally honor that. If people don't say one way or the other, I try to read between the lines. In this case, I looked at what those arguing to delete wrote, and came to the conclusion that what they were really saying was, Not notable enough for a stand-alone article, but didn't see any specific reason to hide the existing text.

I've pinged everybody who participated in the AfD. If I've mis-interpreted your sentiment, let me know. If more than a couple of people feel my reading between the lines was in error, I'll be happy to revise my close. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:41, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Roy, once more, I'm not here to re-litigate the AfD. I'm just surprised that I see a string of AfDs where you deleted the article, didn't make any redirects, and didn't mention ATD. And then there's this one where suddenly ATD pops up and what you yourself call a "clear consensus to delete" is ignored and we get a simple redirect instead. I just would like to understand what the difference is between all those AfDs where you deleted the article and this one. Why does ATD apply here and not with the others? Thanks. --Randykitty (talk) 14:48, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

There's two different questions here. First, Why did I go with redirect?, and second, Once I decided to redirect, why didn't I also delete the history?. Your initial note made it sound like you were OK with the first one, and were just seeking an answer to the second, so that's what I concentrated on that in my response. To now address the first question, several people talked about covering her, in reduced detail, at List of German supercentenarians. At least, that's what I assumed people meant by mini bio. It's standard policy, supported by WP:ATD and WP:CHEAP, that when a non-notable subject is covered to any extent in another article, we provide a redirect as a navigation aid. But, I'm sure you know this, so maybe I'm not quite understanding your question. It's not uncommon for me to take what looks like a delete consensus and turn it into a redirect in my close. My justification for doing so is essentially what I've outlined above. Search my AfD closes for "ATD", and I'm sure you'll find more than a few of these. I could have done a better job explaining this in my closing statement, and I'll be happy to update that. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:06, 13 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Reply Well, I !voted Keep - but I agree, there was a consensus (not well argued, or argued at all, in some cases, in my opinion) to delete - but the nominator and one Delete !voter both said they could see a mini-bio on the List of German supercentenarians, and one other Delete !voter said that they had already placed some of the unique info in the caption under her photo on that page (wonder how long the page will survive .....) So, 3 of the 5 Delete !voters mentioned something other than a straight Delete. Personally, I thought several of the Delete !voters had no arguments about this specific article, and could have been ignored in closing as not having any rational arguments - but, as you say, we're not here to relitigate, and as far as I'm concerned, redirection is not against the spirit of 5 of the 9 participants in the AfD. RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:57, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm just a relister, so I have no opinion.  Sandstein   15:01, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Endorse – For my own part, I agree with the redirect, and I think the closer's decision not to perform a hard delete first was within their discretion. — JFG talk 16:10, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * People, this is not DRV nor have I the intention to bring this to DRV. There is no need for all participants in the AfD to come here and endorse (or not) the decision. All I wanted was to understand why Roy invoked ATD here, what made this AfD different from all the other AfDs that were simply closed "delete" without leaving a redirect and without invoking ATD. Roy has given some explanation. I don't really follow it, but let's leave it at that, OK? --Randykitty (talk) 16:18, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-51
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

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Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  20:35, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Request Undeletion of Kamil Ekim Alptekin
The "Kamil Ekim Alptekin" page was deleted per review here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Kamil_Ekim_Alptekin

He has now been charged in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia in relation to the investigation of Michael Flynn (indictment: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000167-bce4-df8f-adff-bdfd2a910001).

Would you kindly consider approving the undeletion of the page (archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20170703181335/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamil_Ekim_Alptekin) in light of the new developments?

PvOberstein (talk) 17:00, 17 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I wrote in my AfD close, If future events unfold which add substantial coverage to this person, this can, of course, be revisited. I guess this qualifies.  Done.  -- RoySmith (talk) 17:25, 17 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Much appreciated. PvOberstein (talk) 21:21, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Deletion review for Pakistan administered Kashmir
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Pakistan administered Kashmir. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  22:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistan administered Kashmir
Hi Roy, I am here to discuss your closure of the Articles for deletion/Pakistan administered Kashmir, Thanks for taking out the time to read the long discussion and special thank for sharing a long closing comment.

You had agreed which was a correct observation. You noted that This comment was just carried over from the older AfD which had a POV title "occupied", no explanation was given how it is POVFORK and whose POV since it is a term used be neutral third party, POV arguement did nt make much sense.

I am not sure how you weighed the arguments of each side, so I am here to understand the same.

a disagreement about title words should be discussed in a subsequent WP:RM discussion after keeping the article, this should not be used as a reason to delete/redirect.

In my opinion there were strong policy based justifications to keep and on the other side there were weak, factually incorrect, policy misrepresentation arguments to delete. On top of that as expected, this AfD was SOCK and MEAT infested. User:The_Donkey_King is already blocked as a sock and cursory look at the contribution history of another clearly imply canvassing. This should also should be taken into account while deciding the weight of arguments.

Please let me know if you can change your closure to keep or No consensus. I feel there are strong reasons to keep as explained in the table discussing all the comments. Looking forward to hear your thoughts. regards.-- D Big X ray ᗙ  23:46, 16 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Well, let's start with the obvious stuff. The closing template says, No further edits should be made to this page.  So, you shouldn't be making further edits.  I've reverted your edit.  Had I known that The Donkey King was a sock, it wouldn't have made any difference; there was still a good consensus to delete this, even ignoring The Donkey King's comments.


 * As for my comment about controlled vs occupied vs adminstered, that was just an observation that I made. It was not the reason I closed the discussion as I did.


 * I realize that you, as the author of this article, are disappointed that it was deleted, and disagree with my close. However, I think I made the right close, and don't see anything in your comments above to change my mind.  -- RoySmith (talk) 01:06, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind reply, I had struck per WP:SOCKSTRIKE, I understand your revert, sorry for the trouble.


 * Ok, but can you please elaborate more on how you judged the consensus and weights. Regards -- D Big X ray ᗙ  01:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what question you're asking. If you mean, what mechanical process did I use, I copy-pasted the entire text of the AfD into an editor and worked on the text to extract the key sentiments and arguments from each discussant.  This left me with a summary of the major points that were brought up in the discussion, and some notes of particularly significant things which I thought deserved mention in the close, regardless of which way it went.  It also left me with a rough idea of how many people said the same things.   If, however, you mean can I go through a detailed analysis of every contributor's comments, as you did in your table above, no, I'm not going to do that.  -- RoySmith (talk) 02:10, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I was not expecting a table from you, although I did share my analysis in table format. Thank you for your kind reply. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  02:53, 17 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Update FYI, Today, as was suspected a second AfD participant who voted Delete, Special:Contributions/Farooqahmadbhat has been CU blocked as a sock. After the Close of AfD, and Farooqahmadbhat have been CU blocked. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  20:55, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that, but thank you for the note. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:04, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You are welcome, In the light of the recent developments (that happened after your close), do you now feel that the "No Consensus" close would have now been more appropriate ? A merry Christmas-- D Big X ray ᗙ  21:16, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Please just let the DRV run its course. I have already stated that I will remain neutral there.  -- RoySmith (talk) 21:34, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * All right. As you must be observing, even the DRV has not been spared by the puppet masters. Lets see how this proceeds-- D Big X ray ᗙ  21:37, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

DYK for SoHo Weekly News
Mifter (talk) 00:01, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Deletion failed?
Hello, I see you were the closer for List of photographs by John Thomas. Just thought you might want to know, the talk page was deleted per the AfD result, but the article page itself is still there. Thanks! PohranicniStraze (talk) 07:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 * My guess is the script that handles the close details timed out. I saw your message earlier this morning, when I was on a mobile device, and tried to bring up the page.  I couldn't even load it.  Maybe all the images made it too big?  Anyway, I see User:Ymblanter fixed that up already, so we're good.  -- RoySmith (talk) 17:26, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I have noticed it here, checked the AfD nomination page, and then deleted. It is not an exception, pages fail to get deleted on a regular basis, I guess for a million of reasons.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Happy new year
Happy New Year! Hello RoySmith: Thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia, and have a great New Year! Cheers, Hhkohh (talk) 09:40, 1 January 2019 (UTC) Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year snowman}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.

Happy New Year!




 RoySmith , Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia, and a Happy New Year to you and yours! North America1000 14:48, 1 January 2019 (UTC)


 * – Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year}} to user talk pages.

Administrators' newsletter – January 2019
News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2018).

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Guideline and policy news
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 * R4 (new): Redirects in the file namespace (and no file links) that have the same name as a file or redirect at Commons are now covered under the new R4 criterion (discussion).  This is db-redircom; the text is unchanged.
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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:39, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

January 13: Wikimedia NYC invites you to Wikipedia Day 2019
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Requesting Undeletion of "List of PlayStation 2 games with alternative display modes"
I am requesting the restoration of the page List of PlayStation 2 games with alternative display modes. This page provided useful information for anyone looking for a deeper understanding of the PS2's video output capabilities, including the hardware requirements such as the type of A/V cable that must be used. The most vital information on the page beyond this is the list of software that is actually capable of supporting alternate display modes, and what action the user must perform to achieve these alternate modes when the hardware requirements are met, including but not limited to modification of the software to gain access to alternate display modes that the software does not officially support.

The main PS2 article does not provide this information, and the page surely must have been made with the intention of not weighing down that article with this abundance of additional information.

Please note that similar articles for the GameCube and Xbox also existed and were recently deleted as well by users Patar knight and TheSandDoctor respectively, and I am making restoration requests for those articles on their respective talk pages as well.

Thank you for your time. --2601:440:C07F:77A1:B47F:491B:3E34:CEC1 (talk) 05:35, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The AfD was unanimous, there really is no way I can restore this. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:48, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-02
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Tech News writers, editors and translators wish you a pleasant 2019 year.

Recent changes
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Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  18:30, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Deletion review for Draft:Curtis Jones (footballer)
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Curtis Jones (footballer). Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:57, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Illicit Alcohol Article Deletion
Hello Roy,

I am writing to you with the purpose of getting a solution about the deletion of the Illicit Alcohol Article under the criteria of Speedy deletion G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement. Action taken the past 5th of January.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Illicit_Alcohol

The article is an original publication of Euromonitor, who is aware of the attempt to upload it to the Wikipedia Encyclopedia and in fact, important to say, that it is his interested to publish on the platform for it to be shared with the wikipedia readers, in order to contribute with important information obtained worldwide by studies about the illicit alcohol topic.

In order to maintain this article uploaded, the information about copyrights has been examined, reason why I kindly ask what is the appropriate next step:

Is it necessary that the source: Tracit.org, the one which has the paper uploaded to easily review it, differing from Euromonitor which asks for user info to download it, has to have a publication containing a copyright disclaimer or other indication that the material is free for use? So, it can be under the figure of public domain under the page that has it published?

If this is the case, there is exactly a place where this information should be seen or any link that expresses it is enough? Currently, the paper says: Not to be distributed without permission.

https://www.tracit.org/uploads/1/0/2/2/102238034/illicit_alcohol__-_white_paper.pdf)

How this text has to be licensed under The Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 3.0 Unported License (CC BY-SA) (CC BY-SA) in order to publish it as a Wikipedia Article?

This article provides information about consumer perceptions, health, fiscal risks, also, regulatory and legal issues, everything involved into the illicit alcohol consume. Whereby, have it as an informative article means to provide useful and valuable information related with this illegal and harmful activity.

Your help is very much appreciated, AlcoholEducation (talk) 20:17, 8 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi, and thanks for your note. There's a couple of different things here that need to be discussed in turn.


 * First, there's the issue of copyright. The copyright owner needs to explicitly license the text under the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 3.0 Unported License (CC-BY-SA) and the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL).  Please see WP:Donating copyrighted materials for the details.  I'm afraid I'm not an expert on the copyright donation process, so the best I can do is refer to you that page.


 * But, that's just the legal copyright question. Even after the text is appropriately licensed, based on what you've written, it seems unlikely that it is appropriate for a wikipedia article.  We are an encyclopedia, not a free platform for people to publish content they wish to distribute, regardless of the copyright status, per WP:NOTPROMO.  Please see WP:YFA, and in particular, WP:YFA for some additional guidance.  -- RoySmith (talk) 22:28, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Illicit Alcohol Article Deletion
Thanks a lot Roy for your feedback, it is very valuable information on this process.

I am reviewing all the Wikipedia info for the publication of new articles, as well, all the suggested links you provided to check on the content and requirements for this to be on Wikipedia.

For a matter of doubts, is it possible that you could please redirect me to and administrator on Wikipedia, expert on Creative Commons Licenses and Copyright Donation Processes?

This is a tremendous help, have a good day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlcoholEducation (talk • contribs) 21:33, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * You could ask at Wikipedia talk:Donating copyrighted materials, or perhaps WP:Teahouse. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:38, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-03
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
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 * You can now add captions to files on Commons. Captions are short descriptions of the file. They can be translated to all languages we use. They can't use wikitext markup.
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Changes later this week
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 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from January 15  17:55, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Multilingualism in India
Hi, I'm wondering about your close at that AfD. There was strong consensus that the subject was notable enough in its own right to be kept.

One editor !voted merge, with the most minimal of reasoning. Everyone else who !voted thought that the subject was notable enough in its own right to have its own article; hence !voting keep.

The comments by the nominator such as " If the article is expanded, even just a bit, to include information not included at Languages of India, I will gladly withdraw my nomination." were weightless posturing and I hope they didn't factor into your decision.

Would you mind taking a second look please? I dont think your 'no-consensus' close reflects the true consensus, which I believe should be 'keep'. Thank you, Cesde v a  (talk) 22:28, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I took a quick look. I think my close was reasonable. In any case, there's no practical difference between keep and no consensus, so this doesn't seem worth worrying about. RoySmith-Mobile (talk) 22:36, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-04
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Tech News
 * Some people did not get last week's issue of Tech News. This was because of a problem with MassMessage. If you did not get last week's issue, you can read it on Meta.

Recent changes
 * The content translation tool can now use version 2 as the default version for users who turned on the beta feature. For example it adds the tracking category   to translations that might have used machine translations without fixing the problems. This is so others can find them. You can find this category in   on Wikipedias.
 * https://mediawiki2latex-large.wmflabs.org can now convert collects of up to 800 pages to PDF, EPUB or ODT. Previously this was 200 pages.

Problems
 * When a template was edited with the visual editor, it would sometimes put all information on one line. This makes it difficult to read for editors who use the wikitext editor. It also makes it more difficult to see what happened in a diff. This problem affected edits made between 8 and 17 January and is now fixed.
 * MassMessage is used to post a message to many pages. It has not been working reliably. Some messages have not been posted to everyone.
 * Because of a database problem that had to be fixed immediately you could not edit most wikis for a couple of minutes on 17 January (UTC). This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * You will be able to use template styles in the  namespace.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 22 January. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 23 January. It will be on all wikis from 24 January (calendar).

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg Octicons-tools.svg You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 23 January at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  20:37, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

AfD
Greetings Roy: Just a heads up that while you closed this AfD discussion, the article itself was not deleted. Cheers, North America1000 02:00, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. I've fixed that manually.  -- RoySmith (talk) 02:03, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ultra fast response! North America1000 02:03, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Another Closed AFD but article is still live.
Hello RoySmith,

I recently bumped into an AFD Discussion here which you closed as Delete but the article is still live. Happy Sunday to you. PlotHelpful (talk) 14:27, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I just fixed that. Sometimes the automation fails to work properly, that seems to be the case here. The page had a large number of revisions. The first time I tried to delete it manually, it failed due to a database timeout.  That's probably what happened during the automated AfD close as well.  -- RoySmith (talk) 14:44, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Draft:Clara_Belle_Baker
Thanks for the feedback, Roy. I am working on adding detail (as a part of the research I'm doing on Clara Belle Baker). She was author of more than 70 books for children in addition to being a leading voice in public education for over 50 years. I'm a bit new to wikepedia - and in hindsight I should have sandboxed the article until it was more developed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by InquirEDlearn (talk • contribs) 19:43, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I think what you're doing is fine. Getting stuff out for review early is a reasonable way to go.  If somebody wrote 70 books, it's likely that they're a good subject for a wikipedia article (what we call "notable").  You might also want to take a look at WP:WikiProject Women in Red; what you're working on will fit into that effort.  Good luck working on this, and please feel free to ask me for assistance if you find yourself having difficulty.  -- RoySmith (talk) 20:09, 27 January 2019 (UTC)