User talk:RoySmith/Archive 30

Administrators' newsletter – April 2020
News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2020).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Cabayi • Lee Vilenski
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Boing! said Zebedee
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Jonny-mt • MarkGallagher • PeaceNT
 * Pictogram voting rename.png →

Bureaucrat changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg SilkTork • WereSpielChequers

CheckUser changes
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Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Someguy1221
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Daniel Case

Guideline and policy news
 * There is an ongoing request for comment to streamline the source deprecation and blacklisting process.

Technical news
 * There is a plan for new requirements for user signatures. You can give feedback.

Arbitration
 * Following the banning of an editor by the WMF last year, the Arbitration Committee resolved to hold a Arbcom RfC regarding on-wiki harassment. A draft RfC has been posted at Arbitration Committee/Anti-harassment RfC (Draft) and not open to comments from the community yet. Interested editors can comment on the RfC itself on its talk page.

Miscellaneous
 * The WMF has begun a pilot report of the pages most visited through various social media platforms to help with anti-vandalism and anti-disinformation efforts. The report is updated daily and will be available through the end of May.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:00, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Declination of CSD nomination (25 March)
Sorry for reaching to you so late. But I don't get how one looking for Intel 8231/8232 would search 8232. It's simply not intuitive for a redirect. Thanks. TLOM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 03:23, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Hmmm. It seems logical to me, but feel free to bring it to WP:RFD if you disagree. -- RoySmith (talk) 03:41, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It sure does no harm, and there are some uses, given that 8232 has no interesting properties as in 8000 (number). Thanks, TLOM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 04:16, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

BillyHatch
Thanks for this. I was suspecting a sock, but hadn't seen the DRV posts to link all that together. The comments they were making on article talk pages were interesting claiming the WMF was going to investigate among other things though. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:20, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

List of notable people who have tested positive for COVID-19
I have a list List of notable people who have tested positive for COVID-19 (57 names). Create new article? Deletion review/Log/2020 March 19 —§— T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 00:47, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Talk:List of deaths from the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic —§—   T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 00:49, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I'm afraid I can't help you there. It's not my call. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , was Deletion review/Log/2020 March 19 a yes or no, for List of notable people who have tested positive for COVID-19 —§— T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 01:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , LIke I said, that's not my call. The DRV specifically addressed Articles for deletion/List of people with coronavirus disease 2019.  I know I mentioned in the close that some people felt a title change would be useful, but that wasn't part of the consensus close.  I recognize that you're seeking guidance on how to proceed, but I regret that I can't give you any authoritative advice on this. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:30, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , OK, it is a simple list with references. Be Bold... —§—T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 01:38, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Toddst1 seems very interested, is this username familiar?—§—T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 02:25, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

AfD for Josh Christopher
Hi Roy, as you're an Admin I wanted to reach out and get some procedural thoughts on a very similar/sister AfD to the Mikey Williams AfD that you closed today (4/3/20). Most of the discussion occurred on Mikey Williams but there's significant overlap between the reasoning as well as the same article creator. The Williams one took awhile but was relisted a couple times to generate further discussion while the Josh Christopher I felt should have been relisted and was closed too early since the AfD's deal with the same argument and subjects of the same category, high school basketball players receiving WP:TOOSOON coverage. I was going to propose a Deletion Review but in reviewing WP:DRVPURPOSE under reason #1 and/or #3 or is it more appropriate to propose a new AfD, but in reading WP:RENOM I read that generally renomination "should be held for least six months, unless there is something new to say." In the case of the sister AfD I think the Williams one provides some new info on how the community wants to proceed with those kind of subjects. I wanted to get your thoughts 1) on the issue 2) how to proceed because I don't want to come across as a AfD nom pissed about outcome. Thanks for your time and I appreciate any thoughts on the matter. Bhockey10 (talk) 19:08, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Unfortunately, similar AfDs often end up with inconsistent results, depending on who happens to join the discussion. In this case, the discussion seems unanimous to keep, so I don't see any justification to relist it.  Discussions get relisted when it's not clear what the consensus is, and there's some reason to believe that additional time will help.  They don't get relisted because you don't like the result and are hoping another week will end up with a different result.  It's an imperfect system.
 * I can't promise it'll do any good, but maybe you could gather up all the AfDs that have dealt with similar subjects (i.e. high-school athletes) and start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports) to see if you can get additional clarity about WP:YOUNGATH, and/or modified in some way. Hope that helps. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:17, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, after reaching out I started thinking about that idea to gather some census before re-listing the article again. It would give extra credibility before relisting. Basically the same users that voted Keep at Mikey Williams AfD but the rest of the deeper discussion and Delete votes didn't carry over to Josh Christopher. Since it's an imperfect system I wanted to get some thoughts. Thanks for the idea. I'll take it to Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports) first. --Bhockey10 (talk) 20:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, after reaching out I started thinking about that idea to gather some census before re-listing the article again. It would give extra credibility before relisting. Basically the same users that voted Keep at Mikey Williams AfD but the rest of the deeper discussion and Delete votes didn't carry over to Josh Christopher. Since it's an imperfect system I wanted to get some thoughts. Thanks for the idea. I'll take it to Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports) first. --Bhockey10 (talk) 20:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

List of diving hazards and precautions
Hi RoySmith. You mentioned List of diving hazards and precautions in the discussion at Articles for deletion/Occupational hazards with fire debris cleanup. I agree that there is room for improvement, but it is not clear to me what would be the best way to go about it. It could be useful to get some fresh eyes on the problem. If you have any reasonably practicable suggestions for improving the article, please mention them on its talk page. Good, clear, constructive feedback is very helpful for improving articles of any standard. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 06:50, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-15
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * There was a problem with user pages not being shown properly on desktop. This was because of a bug. It will soon be fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 7 April. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 8 April. It will be on all wikis from 9 April (calendar).

Future changes
 * MediaWiki will use a newer version of Unicode. Some characters that did not have an upper case equivalent before do now. Titles beginning with one of these characters will be moved. A list of these titles can be seen on Phabricator. The titles will be renamed by the user . This will start on 13 April 2020. You can rename them before this if you wish and the new title can be different from the one the script would rename it to.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  19:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Punchline
Hey Roy. I see the deletion review for Punchline (character) ended with "Deletion endorsed with no prejudice to a redirect being created". I'd be interested in redirecting it to the most appropriate list (which it appears would be List of Batman family enemies), and I'd also like to save the content of earlier article, either in the redirect's edit history or (as you suggested in the AFD closing)) in a draft space, in case the subject proves notable enough in a few months or next year to warrant a standalone article again. Would you be willing to either restore the article and then redirect it to that list (after which I would create a list entry based upon what was in the earlier argument)? Or go the draft space route if you think that's better? — Hunter Kahn 01:56, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, I'll add that I didn't mean personal offense to you by bringing it to the deletion review; I've never contested a deletion result before, so I didn't even realize I could have brought it to your talk page first before going that route... — Hunter Kahn 01:57, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Not a problem. Many of our processes are overly complicated.  it all worked out in the end, and I'm not offended.  I've restored the article to Draft:Punchline (character). -- RoySmith (talk) 02:13, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , PS, you should be able to create the redirect yourself. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you much! — Hunter Kahn 02:56, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Request on 07:53:47, 10 April 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by Clachat
Dear Roy,

Thank you for reviewing our proposed entry. I disagree with the comment and reason for rejecting it. The page on STROBE-nut we are proposing is not the same as the STROBE statement. The STROBE statement deals with epidemiology in general, STROBE-nut with nutrition. As specified in the first sentence of our page "STROBE-nut is an extension of the STROBE statement for application in nutrition epidemiology and dietary assessment. We refer to the STROBE statement correctly on our page and explain the added value of the STROBE-Nut initiative.

I understand it might be confusing for an audience that is not familiar with reporting guidelines for research, but for scholars working in the area of nutrition, a separate entry on STROBE-nut is important. Please consult the references and the links mentioned, you will realize that these initiatives are quite different and appeal to a different audience. Perhaps the double use of the "STROBE" acronym is confusing, but unfortunately, this is more of a convention in the academic community.

If you really feel this page does not add anything, please delete my entry. A coordinator for STROBE-nut, I only wanted to create useful resources on Wikipedia for an audience interested in nutrition research by making a specific Wiki page for this.

Greetings,

Carl

[

Clachat (talk) 07:53, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , There's a few problems here.
 * To start with the simplest, the article is confusing to read. It probably makes sense to an expert in the field, but to somebody who's not an expert, it's really not clear what this is about.  See WP:LEAD for more on that.  You should also look at WP:MFA.
 * To touch on this comment you left for, please don't get distracted by the existence of other articles. We have lots of poorly written articles; using them as examples of how to write your own article isn't productive.
 * But, the most fundamental issue here is that you have a conflict of interest. At a minimum, you need to declare your COI on your user page.  But, beyond that, please note that COI editing is strongly discouraged.  Please read the WP:COI page for more on that.  You are free to continue to work on the draft if you like, but I cannot in good conscience recommend that you do so, as it is likely to be effort expended for no likely positive result.  Our experience is that drafts written by people closely involved with projects are unlikely to develop into useful encyclopedia articles. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:03, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * To touch on this comment you left for, please don't get distracted by the existence of other articles. We have lots of poorly written articles; using them as examples of how to write your own article isn't productive.
 * But, the most fundamental issue here is that you have a conflict of interest. At a minimum, you need to declare your COI on your user page.  But, beyond that, please note that COI editing is strongly discouraged.  Please read the WP:COI page for more on that.  You are free to continue to work on the draft if you like, but I cannot in good conscience recommend that you do so, as it is likely to be effort expended for no likely positive result.  Our experience is that drafts written by people closely involved with projects are unlikely to develop into useful encyclopedia articles. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:03, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * But, the most fundamental issue here is that you have a conflict of interest. At a minimum, you need to declare your COI on your user page.  But, beyond that, please note that COI editing is strongly discouraged.  Please read the WP:COI page for more on that.  You are free to continue to work on the draft if you like, but I cannot in good conscience recommend that you do so, as it is likely to be effort expended for no likely positive result.  Our experience is that drafts written by people closely involved with projects are unlikely to develop into useful encyclopedia articles. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:03, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Page Draft: Steven Drucker deleted for copyright violations
This page was deleted because it was cited as a copyright violation due to recently published award winners at SIGCHI (https://sigchi.org/awards-sigchi-award-recipients-2020-sigchi-awards).

The text for the SIGCHI award page was taken from the bio for Steven M. Drucker's home page at research.microsoft.com and https://stevenmdrucker.github.io/#/. The Wikipedia draft was taken from those same sources and written before the bio on the award page (which also used those sources). These pages were also attributed in the draft wikipedia page.

If this page can be restored from deletion, the text can be revised to eliminate any copyright infringement and structured less as a resume.

Thanks! 03:12, 8 April 2020 (UTC) Lourdes Romao — Preceding unsigned comment added by LourdesRomao (talk • contribs)
 * if the text was taken from the subject's research page, it's still a copyright violation. In any case, the draft was basically a resume, which is not what we publish on wikipedia.  Please see WP:NACADEMIC for our notability guidelines for academics.  And, finally, my guess is that you have some connection with the subject, so please read WP:COI.  -- RoySmith (talk) 14:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , OK, I understand. Is there any way that I can get a dump of the page? I put in a fair amount of work on it and would like it for other purposes and didn't realize that it could be summarily deleted so I don't have a backup. LourdesRomao
 * My personal policy is to not email pages which were deleted as copyright violations. That is not universal policy, however, and you may find other admins who are willing to email you a copy by asking at WP:REFUND.  On second thought, I just checked there, and the instructions explicitly call out copyright violations as disqualifying, so I'm not sure what other advice I can give you.  -- RoySmith (talk) 23:50, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Bogus AfD, possibly vandalism
It was deleted after I posted the AFD, but due (I suspect) to the poorly formatted AFD (which should have worked as I used page curation) the AFD was not closed when the article was deleted.Slatersteven (talk) 09:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Thanks for your note. No worries, it's cleaned up, no real harm done. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:29, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Baron Rojo "No va mas" page
Hello! Hope everything is fine in the middle of difficult times like these.

I am just wondering why my submission is declined on and on:

Draft:¡No va más!

What makes this submission unacceptable, and -for instance- made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstinato acceptable?

Thank you for your time and dedication.

Materasi (talk) 20:12, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I looked at the sources in the draft. Our notability criteria for albums are listed at WP:NALBUM.  I don't see anything in those sources which indicates this album meets any of those.  As for the other article you mentioned, comparisons like that aren't very useful.  I took a quick look at that article; as far as I can tell, it doesn't meet the criteria either, but the fact that that article was created (apparently in error) has no bearing on this one. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-16
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * You can now use the  search word on all Wikipedias. It searches articles by topic.
 * You can see wiki tools in the new Tools Gallery.
 * You can see edits from the Wikimedia Cloud Services in a new dashboard.
 * When you use filters on a history page you sometimes don't see any edits. There is a text explaining this now. Before it was just empty.
 * There is a new Wikimedia Technical Blog.

Problems
 * There was a problem with the Wikidata database last week. Some wikis went down for twenty minutes. Wikidata and other projects showed error messages. Interwiki links were not shown, some tools did not work and other problems. Some of this was fixed quickly. The developers are working on fixing the rest.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from April 14. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from April 15. It will be on all wikis from April 16 (calendar).

Future changes
 * Some graphs have not worked on mobile. This will soon be fixed.
 * The article tab on talk pages of redirects links to the target of the redirect. It could link to the redirect page itself instead. You can leave feedback on this.
 * For pages using syntax highlighting, the use of the deprecated  tag, as well as the use of the deprecated   parameter, will add tracking categories.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  15:31, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #1 – Discussion tools
Read this in another language • Subscription list



The Editing team has been working on the talk pages project. The goal of the talk pages project is to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. This project is the result of the Talk pages consultation 2019.



The team is building a new tool for replying to comments now. This early version can sign and indent comments automatically. Please test the new Reply tool.


 * On 31 March 2020, the new tool was offered as a Beta Feature editors at four Wikipedias:  Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian.  If your community also wants early access to the new tool, contact User:Whatamidoing (WMF).
 * The team is planning some upcoming changes. Please review the proposed design and share your thoughts on the talk page.  The team will test features such as:
 * an easy way to mention another editor ("pinging"),
 * a rich-text visual editing option, and
 * other features identified through user testing or recommended by editors.

To hear more about Editing Team updates, please add your name to the "Get involved"  section of the project page. You can also watch these pages: the main project page, Updates, Replying, and User testing.

– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Response to Draft:DUT-5
Dear Roy, I have read your comment on the Draft:DUT-5 page and tried to improve the article by adding several figures. Do you think that these figures are enough to improve understandability for other readers? If not, could you give me your opinion on which parts needs more explanations, please? Thanks! Canucksplayer (talk) 23:16, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I did some minor copyediting. The problem is how to take a highly technical concept and make it approachable by somebody who's not an expert in the field.  I was pretty good at organic chemistry back in my college days, so I get most of this, but not all of it.
 * Give a quick (1 sentence) description of what a MOF is. I clicked on metal-organic frameworks, and got to a page that uses the word "coordinated" in a way I've never heard of.  So then I clicked through to Coordination polymer, and finally got to something that makes sense to me.  So, maybe pull up something from there.
 * I'm having trouble getting my head around the idea of a one-dimensional pore. I'm used to thinking of pores as holes in cell membranes.  How this can be one-dimensional is a mystery to me.  Sounds like something out of flatland :-)
 * I have no idea what quasi-infinite means. Or isostructural.  Or functionalized.
 * Reddit has a catch-phrase: Explain Like I'm Five (ELIF). Obviously, in a technical article like this, you can't do the whole thing that way, but try to start off as simple as possible and work your way up in complexity.  Maybe you could start off with something like, "A MOF is a repeating molecular structure consisting of alternating metal and organic units"? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what quasi-infinite means. Or isostructural.  Or functionalized.
 * Reddit has a catch-phrase: Explain Like I'm Five (ELIF). Obviously, in a technical article like this, you can't do the whole thing that way, but try to start off as simple as possible and work your way up in complexity.  Maybe you could start off with something like, "A MOF is a repeating molecular structure consisting of alternating metal and organic units"? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Reddit has a catch-phrase: Explain Like I'm Five (ELIF). Obviously, in a technical article like this, you can't do the whole thing that way, but try to start off as simple as possible and work your way up in complexity.  Maybe you could start off with something like, "A MOF is a repeating molecular structure consisting of alternating metal and organic units"? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Reddit has a catch-phrase: Explain Like I'm Five (ELIF). Obviously, in a technical article like this, you can't do the whole thing that way, but try to start off as simple as possible and work your way up in complexity.  Maybe you could start off with something like, "A MOF is a repeating molecular structure consisting of alternating metal and organic units"? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

, thank you for the ideas and your help! I think that I managed to get a little out of my box in some cases and inserted many additional links to existing wiki pages at the other occasions. As it is with many topics, one will need some basic understanding to get the whole idea, but that cannot be explained on one page, because it would occur on mulitple pages for each metal-organic framework material again. So I hope that the solution with many links seems like a good compromise for you, too?

Flatland seems like an interesting, but still weird kind of book :D to unwrap your head: better think about a one-dimensional pore as a pore system extending only in one dimension ;) -- Canucksplayer (talk) 10:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I've accepted the draft and done a little more copyediting. I hope my simplication of "coordination entities" to "structures" didn't change the meaning.  If so, feel free to revert or correct that.
 * The idea of a one-dimensional pore is still eluding me, but I don't know what to do with that. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The idea of a one-dimensional pore is still eluding me, but I don't know what to do with that. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of American Bank Note Company Printing Plant
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article American Bank Note Company Printing Plant you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vami IV -- Vami IV (talk) 17:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

RE: Evolution of Collagen Gene
Hello!

I just wanted to thank you for your help on this draft of my article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Genetic_evolution_of_the_collagen_gene_family

I will discuss this more this my professor, and see what she says! A few people in my class were able to get their articles published, so I am not quite sure what they did differently. I will continue to try and edit this article, if that is alright with you, and see if I can post it anywhere. I was getting help from a user named Zefr, who was helping me edit down my article to see if it was possible to post it on the collagen page. I will take what you have said into account as I continue on my editing endeavors. I hope that this is okay.

Again, thank you for your help. I hope that you are staying safe and healthy during these times.

Cheers!

Anna Maior 200445 (talk) 15:29, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , It is perfectly fine for you to continue to work on the draft, and I encourage you to do so. I think it's great that your professor is using Wikipedia as a part of the curriculum, it just needs to be done in a way which is beneficial to both the encyclopedia and the students.  You might find Help:Your first article to be useful reading.
 * If you are embarking on a scientific career, you will be writing plenty of papers and submitting them to journals. Learning to write well is an important skill.  Another important skill is adjusting your writing to what each individual publication wants, as they each have their own requirements and quirks.  And, yes, learning how to deal with (occasionally brutal) reviews is also an important skill.  I wish you the best of luck. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If you are embarking on a scientific career, you will be writing plenty of papers and submitting them to journals. Learning to write well is an important skill.  Another important skill is adjusting your writing to what each individual publication wants, as they each have their own requirements and quirks.  And, yes, learning how to deal with (occasionally brutal) reviews is also an important skill.  I wish you the best of luck. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Article Ribert Blaich
Hello Roy:

Got the email and message with the notice of the delition of the article on Mr. Robert Blaich. Regret this very much. Robert Blaich mertis an article as he has been a significant impact on the growth of the design profession the last 65 years, more so if you compare his article to other published articles on the likes of Jay Doblin, Stefano Marzano, Bill Modrige, Johnathan Ives. I have responded to all commentary and feedback by editing and adding content... and there is a lot more that can be said. Mr. Blaich is 90 years old and there is nothing promotional or advertorial to gain. In the world of design, he lead the largest design organisation world wide and set the standard for many of the crossreferenced hyperlinks in the article. He is quoted in the article on Design Management, on Herman Miller, on the article on Geroge Nelson, Philips and the Action Office System.

I am fully in support of your editorial system and fully believe in content that is not biased nor promotional.

Gus


 * I nominated this (User:Jimfbleak performed the actual deletion) because it was basically a testimonial to the person. The review on 1 February noted this, but the problems were not resolved.  I assume you have some relationship with the subject?  Please see WP:BIO for what makes a valid biography.  And, the photo, while noted as "Own work", is clearly a copy of the photo from https://id.iit.edu/people/dr-robert-ian-blaich/, and thus a copyright violation.  -- RoySmith (talk) 22:18, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

AfD for Draft:Steve_Parker_(American_artist)
Hi Roy, can you elaborate on why you think the following articles do not demonstrate significant coverage? Also, every clause references a citation, so I'm a little confused about your second point that information "should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources" Thanks for any advice you can offer.


 * https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2020/01/steve-parker-brass-audio-sculpture/
 * http://artsandculturetx.com/steve-parkers-surround-sounds/
 * https://sightlinesmag.org/steve-parker
 * https://www.wlrn.org/post/art-plus-transportation-artist-repurposes-traffic-musical-performance#stream/0
 * https://www.austinchronicle.com/arts/2015-04-10/symphony-no-i-35/
 * https://www.kut.org/post/pest-or-pal-artists-explore-austins-long-strange-relationship-grackles

first let me ask you a question. Are User:SoundArtTexas and User:Art fan texas both your accounts? -- RoySmith (talk) 22:05, 17 April 2020 (UTC) Yes -- forgot the pw for a bit for the former.
 * Please let me know which one you are going to use going forward and I'll disable the other one. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you -- can I keep the "SoundArtTexas" ID?
 * I've blocked User:Art fan texas per your request. Please keep using the User:SoundArtTexas account.  But, since we're on the subject, I see there's also a Draft:Steve Parker (artist), which was declined by User:Sulfurboy.  That article was written by User:Sscp3241.  Is that yet another one of your accounts?  -- RoySmith (talk) 22:41, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

I honestly have no memory of creating that. But possible -- as a parent, I have no short-term memory. So do the referenced articles above not meet the standard of legitimate coverage? If so, I understand. Thank you again.

Aurora Theatre Hong Kong
Many thanks Roy: you are quite right. Please tell me if anything else needs changing.

I have now changed all  HKELD.com   to be   www.HKELD.com
 * What I meant was 1) turning them into links to specific pages, not just to the home page of the website, and 2) making them links so you can click on them. But now that I look at this closer, I see I really misled you.  The true problem is that all of these references look like the theatre company's own website.  What we need are WP:INDEPENDENT sources.  Please see WP:RS and WP:NCORP for what we're looking for.  -- RoySmith (talk) 14:35, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

my goof
I tend to do something really stupid once a year. Burgess fills up my quota for 2020. I'm getting complacent. Thanks for catching it.  DGG ( talk ) 23:23, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Not a problem. If we're counting stupid things, I'm way out in front of you :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 23:25, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Request on 11:47:18, 19 April 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by Mikebromfield
Hi there, thanks for reviewing my article on Draft: World YMCA and posting your decision on my talk page here. I just wanted to ask for some more information/advice. There are examples on Wikipedia already of an organisation with an article, and governing parent bodies having a separate article, Scouting and World Organization of the Scout Movement for example.

Is it a case of the draft I've created needing substantially more notable and relevant information to be approved?

Thank you in advance!

Mikebromfield (talk) 11:47, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Hi, and thanks for your note. There's no hard and fast rule here.  It's certainly possible for the movement and the organization to have their own articles, but looking at the current draft, there just didn't seem to me that there was enough to justify its own article.  Splitting gives some guidance on this.
 * If you want to keep working on your draft, that's perfectly fine. Perhaps if it gets to be more substantial, you could re-submit it and see what another reviewer thinks.  Or, perhaps consider just adding to the existing YMCA article. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:54, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If you want to keep working on your draft, that's perfectly fine. Perhaps if it gets to be more substantial, you could re-submit it and see what another reviewer thinks.  Or, perhaps consider just adding to the existing YMCA article. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:54, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:American companies disestablished in 1989


A tag has been placed on Category:American companies disestablished in 1989 requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. UnitedStatesian (talk) 02:23, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I see what happened here. I accepted Draft:The Burgess Battery Company into mainspace, and added the cat.  Then the draft got moved back to draft space and the cats got commented out here.  I guess if this ever finds its way back to mainspace, easy enough to recreate the cat at that time. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:28, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Further feedback requested
Hi Roy Thanks for reviewing my page. As this is the second time of being rejected, after I had cut it back significantly from the first draft, I just wondered whether it was ever likely to get approved if I edited any further, or whether the general content meant it is just not suitable. Thanks in advance for your help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LADDY72#Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation%3A_GroupH_%28April_18%29
 * thanks for your note. I'm guessing this is an organization you have some relationship with?  If that's the case, please read WP:COI to learn about the difficulties (and obligations) with this type of editing.  But, to answer your specific question, please take a look at WP:NCORP, and more specifically, WP:NCORP.  The core question is whether coverage exists which can meet the requirements laid out there.  I'd suggest that's where you start.  While it's true that the text of the draft I declined was written in a promotional tone, just fixing the writing style is secondary to ascertaining if the underlying coverage exists.  I don't mean to be unduly discouraging, but my initial impression is that it probably doesn't exist.  You might also want to ask at WP:Teahouse, which is a forum devoted to helping new editors get up to speed on our (confusing and often conflicting) policies.  -- RoySmith (talk) 15:12, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback Roy. I'll explore these avenues.

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Draft:Tuskegee Airmen, Incorporated
Hi RoySmith. Can you take a look at WP:THQ? Perhaps you can clarify what you meant about merging content because I think the OP might have misunderstood what you suggested. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:20, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Done. -- RoySmith (talk) 12:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking a look at this. — Marchjuly (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

April 22: ONLINE WikiWednesday Salon NYC
(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

Request on 06:15:43, 22 April 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by Marko.oja
{{SAFESUBST:Void|

Hi, just clarifying a couple of things you found problematic. The article in question is a translation of the page in Finnish (https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekka_Gronow) and I was asked to create one in English as well (by the former National Librarian of Finland, Kai Ekholm). Yle (the national broadcasting service in Finland) is where Gronow used to work, uppslagsverket is a who's who -page in Finland, concentrating on the Swedish speaking minority, and sananvapauteen.fi is a themed web page by the National Library of Finland concentrating on the freedom of speech (which for some mind-boggling reason is only available in Finnish) that got the State Awards for Public Information in 2017.

Marko.oja (talk) 06:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * {{u|Marko.oja}}, Please note that each language wiki has their own guidelines and standards. I'm not familiar specifically with fiwiki, but enwiki tends to have stricter notability guidelines than many other wikis; what was an acceptable subject on fiwiki may not be here.
 * My comment about yle.fi is that it consisted of "passing mentions". We have the concept of significant coverage, which means a source does into depth about the subject.  Simply mentioning the subject somewhere in the article is not enough.
 * And, as you say, uppslagsverket is a who's-who. That's pretty much the canonical example of a directory listing, which we do not consider an imporant part of determining notability.  Again, it's a WP:SIGCOV question. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:06, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * {{u|Marko.oja}}, Also, you said, "I was asked to create one in English". That may imply that you have a conflict of interest.  This is particularly so if you are being paid for your translation services, or it's being done as part of your employment.  Please see WP:COI and WP:UPE.  Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:08, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * And, as you say, uppslagsverket is a who's-who. That's pretty much the canonical example of a directory listing, which we do not consider an imporant part of determining notability.  Again, it's a WP:SIGCOV question. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:06, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * {{u|Marko.oja}}, Also, you said, "I was asked to create one in English". That may imply that you have a conflict of interest.  This is particularly so if you are being paid for your translation services, or it's being done as part of your employment.  Please see WP:COI and WP:UPE.  Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:08, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

USCGC Maui (WPB-1304)
I saw you had declined this for notability, I was just going to bring to your attention the rather obscure WP:SHIPOUTCOMES. Cheers Sulfurboy (talk) 14:25, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I personally think most of our "presumed notable" guidelines are, um, unfortunate. I see you've accepted it; that's fine.  Thanks for the note. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:33, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh I agree, it's incredibly broad. However, named ships like this are almost always kept in AfD, and since our standard is just "likely to pass an AfD" then they all pretty much have to be accepted if reliably sourced. Cheers Sulfurboy (talk) 15:18, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Bronx locations pictures
Hi Roy, it was nice to see you at the virtual NYC meetup tonight. This sounds like an ambitious project, but I think it is a pretty cool idea.

If it's not a bother, there are several landmarks in the Bronx that not only don't have pages, but don't have articles as well (this list in particular). Are you also planning to visit Crotona Park as well? That article could use a few additional pictures. I'm also thinking of writing Seton Falls Park in Edenwald if you're headed up there.

Stay well, and let's hope this crisis subsides soon. epicgenius (talk) 00:43, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Thanks for the links. Yeah, Seton Falls Park is not far from me.  I've been by it plenty of times, but never been in it.  This sounds like a good excuse.  I'll certainly hit Crotona Park at some point as well.  Somebody (was it you?) mentioned there's some skate parks I should visit.  I'll have to look them up.
 * I've vaguely thought about writing User:RoySmith/drafts/Architecture in The Bronx (see the talk page for my notes), but as you can see, haven't made much progress on that :-(
 * On a different topic, I'm thinking Margaret Sibella Brown might be my next project to get up to GA. I think it's in pretty good shape as it is, but I'm sure there's improvements that could be made.  I originally wrote that at one of the edit-a-thons  ran a couple of years back.
 * I forgot to mention earlier, figuring out how to traverse every street on a bike in the most efficient manner is the Chinese postman problem. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:04, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , yeah, that's going to be quite a challenge because of the Bronx's street grid and the steep hills in some places. Hopefully you can do it, though. There were a few other places I was thinking of that need pictures, but I forgot exactly which. I'll let you know about it if these come up, in case you want to visit these places.
 * For your subpage, maybe the lists of landmarks may be a good place to start. I remember writing an article about Art Deco architecture in New York City recently - maybe we can copy a few entries from there.
 * The Brown article looks okay, but a bit on the short side. I suppose a little more can be written about her career. But with a little more content, it could definitely become a GA. epicgenius (talk) 01:14, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I wasn't able to find anything more on her career when I did my original research. I think this was largely a case of "Women don't do science (or at least didn't at the time), so nobody took her seriously".  But, I can certainly see what else I can find. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah Noonan Plaza Apartments, among others, need pictures (or better ones)... when I was up there for tours there were a lot of people that made taking good images tough, now would be the perfect time to shoot if it's possible. (I also wanted a good shot of some of the best-known Deco apts. up there for a splash collage for the lead.) In terms of sources I've come across and used for the NY Deco page, Essays on Modernity and Boulevard of Dreams: Heady Times, Heartbreak, and Hope Along the Grand Concourse had some good information on the growth of the Bronx and New York in general that might be good context for a Bronx architecture page. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 12:53, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The Brown article looks okay, but a bit on the short side. I suppose a little more can be written about her career. But with a little more content, it could definitely become a GA. epicgenius (talk) 01:14, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , I wasn't able to find anything more on her career when I did my original research. I think this was largely a case of "Women don't do science (or at least didn't at the time), so nobody took her seriously".  But, I can certainly see what else I can find. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah Noonan Plaza Apartments, among others, need pictures (or better ones)... when I was up there for tours there were a lot of people that made taking good images tough, now would be the perfect time to shoot if it's possible. (I also wanted a good shot of some of the best-known Deco apts. up there for a splash collage for the lead.) In terms of sources I've come across and used for the NY Deco page, Essays on Modernity and Boulevard of Dreams: Heady Times, Heartbreak, and Hope Along the Grand Concourse had some good information on the growth of the Bronx and New York in general that might be good context for a Bronx architecture page. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 12:53, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: YMCA in America has been accepted
<div style="border:solid 1px #57DB1E; background:#E6FFE6; padding:1em; padding-top:0.5em; padding-bottom:0.5em; width:20em; color:black; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-left: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> YMCA in America, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=YMCA_in_America help desk] . Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Thanks again, and happy editing! -- RoySmith (talk) 14:06, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Request on 13:54:30, 23 April 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by Mikebromfield
Thanks for reviewing my Draft: YMCA in America! From looking at the article YMCA, it disproportionately includes information about America, when the article is about a global organization/movement, it feels like there is a biased. I intended to breakout what is quite in-depth information into the draft, and then would scale back the content in YMCA.

Mikebromfield (talk) 13:54, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , OK, that seems like a reasonable plan, I'll go back and accept the draft. One note, however, please see Copying within Wikipedia.  It's important that if you're going to copy text from one article to another, it be properly attributed.
 * The best way to provide that attribution would be to go back in the YMCA history, find the exact revision you copied from, get a permalink to it (see "Permanent link" in the left-hand nav bar), and make a note on the talk page of the new article along the lines of " Copied content from ; see that page's history for attribution", and include the permalink.
 * When you delete the text from YMCA, leave a detailed edit summary so people know what's going on. If you delete a large amount of text with no explanation, people are likely to assume it's vandalism and revert it. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * When you delete the text from YMCA, leave a detailed edit summary so people know what's going on. If you delete a large amount of text with no explanation, people are likely to assume it's vandalism and revert it. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * When you delete the text from YMCA, leave a detailed edit summary so people know what's going on. If you delete a large amount of text with no explanation, people are likely to assume it's vandalism and revert it. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the advice, I'll do as your suggest and work on doing that promptly, I appreciate the advice and support. Thank you. Mikebromfield (talk) 14:27, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Pepper Group
Hi RoySmith. Thank you for taking the time to review the draft and for your feedback. I read WP:REFBOMBING and WP:THREE. Please let me know if these references are okay.
 * http://www.kanganews.com/news/10705-australian-nonbank-trajectory-still-pointing-up
 * https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/pepper-ceo-mario-raheyem-says-lending-void-too-big-for-nonbanks-to-fill-20190131-h1ap4v
 * https://issuu.com/keymedia/docs/19.10_ipad/30
 * https://issuu.com/keymedia/docs/19.10_ipad/32
 * https://issuu.com/keymedia/docs/mpa_1911_ipad/30
 * https://www.brokernews.com.au/features/cover-story/simplifying-commercial-lenders-reveal-first-steps-to-growth-270450.aspx
 * https://www.brokernews.com.au/news/breaking-news/nonconforming-loans-made-easy-with-pepper-tool-242785.aspx
 * https://www.mpamagazine.com.au/sections/features/valuation-rate-and-property-prices-borrowers-top-concerns-for-2019-261535.aspx
 * https://www.theadviser.com.au/breaking-news/38919-credit-crunch-weakening-borrower-confidence
 * https://www.theadviser.com.au/breaking-news/39750-pickle-money-in-trademark-dispute-with-pepper
 * Aurdivon (talk) 23:11, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Please re-read WP:THREE, with emphasis on "no more than three". Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi RoySmith. Please check these 3. Thanks.
 * https://www.theadviser.com.au/breaking-news/39750-pickle-money-in-trademark-dispute-with-pepper
 * https://www.mpamagazine.com.au/sections/features/valuation-rate-and-property-prices-borrowers-top-concerns-for-2019-261535.aspx
 * https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/pepper-ceo-mario-raheyem-says-lending-void-too-big-for-nonbanks-to-fill-20190131-h1ap4v
 * Aurdivon (talk) 04:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

G13 misconception
Based on your commentary at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Frontier Radio, you appear to be under the misconception of the operation of HasteurBot's operations with respect to G13 nominations. HasteurBot works on the operating principle that 5 and 6 months unedited really means 5/6 months unedited by anything. I am aware that G13 is currently the implementation of Any pages that have not been edited by a human in six months found in: Draft Namespace. I choose to read the implementation without the "by a human in 6 months" as it was originally created and therefore a more narrow definition that falls within the larger reading. I choose this reading so that there is never any doubt about what was qualifying/disqualifying edits and therefore makes me responsible for mistakes. Over a long enough time frame many pages will very likely end up on the G13 nomination rail with the more restrictive rule.

Hope this clears things up for you and provides some insight into my reasoning/thoughts. Hasteur (talk) 23:41, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/EnergyTeachers.org
Hi, was I right to close this as speedy keep as the ip has been blocked as a sockpuppet? Its been challenged on my talkpage, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 20:04, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Its been renominated here Articles for deletion/EnergyTeachers.org (2nd nomination), Atlantic306 (talk) 20:13, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. OK, I'm not 100% sure what's going on, but I'll keep an eye on the 2nd AfD just to make sure nothing nutso happens.  Thanks.  -- RoySmith (talk) 20:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I renominated the article. The block was only to encourage me to log in. -- Computer165 (talk) 21:02, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * FYI the IP address I was using is a proxy ([Https://vista.com.cy]) because my parents blocked Wikipedia. I was unable to log in from that proxy. Shame on me. --Computer165 (talk) 15:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2020
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Your GA nomination of American Bank Note Company Printing Plant
The article American Bank Note Company Printing Plant you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:American Bank Note Company Printing Plant for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vami IV -- Vami IV (talk) 10:01, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Cosmic Dawn Center draft
To RoySmith, first of all, thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my draft. It is really great of you to take time to do it and I greatly appreciate your efforts. I am unsure as to whether or not to notify you that I have supplied the three best references for determining notability, so here goes, I apologize if you have already seen it, and/or would be getting to it anyway. Thank you! (talk) 17:19, 27 April 2020 (CET)
 * thanks for adding those. I'll take another look at the draft, but most likely I'll just leave it for another reviewer to give an independent viewpoint.  In either case, listing those will be of use to the next reviewer.  -- RoySmith (talk) 19:32, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Possibly broken signature
Your signature at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2020_April_24&diff=prev&oldid=953862437 seems broken. There's no link to your profile. --<i style="font-family:'Rock salt','Comic Sans MS'; color: Green;">Tyw7</i> (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 17:41, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , Heh. That was an attempt to reply using User:Enterprisey/reply-link, (like I'm doing now) which doesn't always work.  So, I just copy-pasted the failed message, which lost the linking.  But thanks for the heads up. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:52, 29 April 2020 (UTC)