User talk:Rupert1904/Archive 6

Career stats table formatting
Hi there. In career statistics tables teams should not be written in bold formatting. See the standard layout at WikiProject Football/Players. I'll remove it at Mbwana Samatta. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 17:45, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks
Once again, great work at Bakari Koné. Keep it up! :-) Robby.is.on (talk) 10:18, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! :-) Robby.is.on (talk) 15:20, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Capitalisation
Hi there. "Forward" should not be capitalised at Ianis Hagi.

The Manual of Style states: "Wikipedia uses sentence case for sentences, article titles, section titles, table headers, image captions, list entries (in most cases), and entries in infoboxes and similar templates, among other things. Any MoS guidance about the start of a sentence applies to items using sentence case." Sentence case means "a mixed-case style in which the first word of the sentence is capitalised, as well as proper nouns and other words as required by a more specific rule." (Sentence case) Playing positions are not proper nouns.

Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 10:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Honours
You have been around long enough to know Wikipedia relies on reliable sources to verify information, especially about living people. GiantSnowman 17:55, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I do that all the time. I could not easily find a source for your stuff, and the obligation is on the person adding the information. Do not expect others to clean up after you. GiantSnowman 20:47, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * You clearly do expect others to clean up after you, hence your comment to my that "Put in a source if I didn't. It's easy to find". So easy you couldn't do it yourself? Your edit appeared on my watchlist, that's it. GiantSnowman 20:51, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Luís Castro (footballer, born 1961) - Intro
Hello there,

yes he is a current manager, just not working right now. However, since i most likely will be reverted everytime i try to compose the intro, never mind i'll leave it be.

Attentively --85.243.89.253 (talk) 23:41, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Ike Ugbo
Please review the MOS before edit warring. This is standard, hence why you're the only one trying to remove it... GiantSnowman 22:59, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh, I've just seen that has previously referred you to the MOS at WikiProject Football/Players - so you obviously are aware of it, you're just choosing to ignore it? Why? GiantSnowman 23:01, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
 * For the record, I disagree with adding seasons for the loaning club when a player was loaned out for the full season. While the MOS might suggest a consensus, I'm not sure the issue of contention was specifically discussed? Robby.is.on (talk) 06:58, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * We display the parent team as a 'first team' in the infobox, and we display it in the stats table, to make it clear who they are on loan from, other the stats table would be carnage. Imagine the situation where a player plays for Team A, then goes on loan to Team B. He signs for Team C, but never plays, and is immediately loaned to Team D. If we follow your suggestion then Team C would never appear in the stats table and it would therefore look like he was on loan at Team D from Team A??? GiantSnowman 07:12, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The career statistics table's purpose is to show the appearances a player has made. Its purpose is not to display when exactly a players joined or left a club or which club loaned him where and when, all that information is covered in the infobox and, in a more detailed manner, in the storyline. Robby.is.on (talk) 09:02, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it's to summarise the career and appearances. Removing Chelsea completely when Igbo has been a senior player as per the infobox for 4 seasons makes no sense, and readers will query who he was on loan from. As I have said, this in in the MOS and reflects longstanding standard practice. 09:25, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * If a player never was in the squad, it makes no sense to suggest that. The query is adequately answered elsewhere in the article.
 * "longstanding standard practice" – I frequently edit stats tables and that's not what I'm seeing. This may be in the MOS but it's definitely not consistently done. Robby.is.on (talk) 09:33, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * A player spent 5 years at Team A making numerous appearances every season, 5 years at Team B making 0 appearances, and 5 years at Team C making numerous appearances every season. You would remove Team B from the stats table? GiantSnowman 09:39, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * If the player was only contracted to Team B but never in Team B's squad: yes. Robby.is.on (talk) 09:53, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Which is an incomplete representation of the player's career. GiantSnowman 15:10, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Ugbo has never even been given a squad number at Chelsea, therefore it is misleading and inaccurate to put a bunch of blank rows suggesting he could have even made appearances for Chelsea during 2017-18, 2018-19, 2019-20, 2010-21 seasons. It's a lot of waste. Rupert1904 (talk) 15:11, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it's not. As I said, the MOS is there for a reason - to be followed. GiantSnowman 15:14, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * And as it says on the MOS article for football players, it is not set in stone and should not be copied word for word. You should use better judgement. Ike Ugbo has NEVER been given a squad number at Chelsea. When you include a bunch of stat rows in his career statistics table with the 2017–18, 2018–19, 2019–20, 2010–21 seasons it suggests that he was registered with the club and therefore was in line to make an appearance but he wasn't and has never been a part of the first-team squad so it is grossly inaccurate to include these rows. As I said on your talk page, why haven't you added a blank 2020–21 row to Álvaro Morata? Or blank 2017–18, 2018–19 and 2019–20 rows with Real Madrid to Martin Ødegaard? A blank 2017–18 row with Chelsea to Ruben Loftus-Cheek? Etc. etc. etc. Rupert1904 (talk) 15:29, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Just because other articles don't follow the MOS, you want to make Ugbo's article also non-compliant? GiantSnowman 15:44, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No. Explain why you haven't fixed those since the MOS is SO important to you. You've given no clear or good argument for Ugbo's table needing to have a bunch of blank rows with Chelsea other than other people on the internet told you to do something so you did it. The MOS is not supposed to be followed blindly. Go to the Ike Ugbo profile on Chelsea's official site and you'll see he's never been registered with the senior squad and has only played up to the Under-21s. So to keep putting rows and rows over and over again in his career stats table stating that he is a registered Chelsea player is inaccurate, wrong, and also just a lie. Rupert1904 (talk) 15:55, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to explain anything to you, and you need to stop being so childishly dramatic. The MOS is clear, and those rows have been in the article for years. There is no consensus to remove them. That's it, thanks. Unwatching this page as I have no interest in speaking to a brick wall. GiantSnowman 15:59, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Why are you watching my talk page in the first place you creep? You still haven't bought me dinner or asked permission from my parents yet to take me out on a date... The MOS is clearly not supposed to be followed word for word. Just because Ugbo's article has been wrong for years doesn't mean it can't be fixed now. Get ooff your high horse. Can I just block you permanently? :) Rupert1904 (talk) 16:04, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Please seek consensus to change the stable version of the Ugbo page, thanks. There is none. I suggest you start a discussion at WT:FOOTBALL if you want to change or divert from the MOS. GiantSnowman 16:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Man you're daft. You tried to start a discussion about this on my talk page and bring in another editor and they told you you were in the wrong. You're so frustratingly annoying. Stop following my talk page and every edit I make. You need a better hobby. Rupert1904 (talk) 16:11, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

ANI notification
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. GiantSnowman 16:14, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

May 2021
Please stop attacking other editors, as you did on [[WP:ANI, User talk:Rupert1904]]. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. ''If you continue to Attack other editors (daft, creep, etc), then you will be blocked. You've been here long enough to know better.'' — Ched (talk) 21:28, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Overlinking
Regarding your recent edits on clubs' season pages (such as this one), why do you think it is overlinking? The overlinking refers to the prose of an article (But, as a rule of thumb, only link the first occurrence of a term in the text of the article.). Despite this we Consider including links where readers might want to use them; for example, in article leads, at the openings of new sections, in the cells of tables, and in file captions. Consider how a reader sees the season page - do they read it from beginning to end in one sitting or do they scroll to where the specific match they are currently interested in is and read only that match information? I believe most readers it is the second, and therefore it makes sense to include the links in all matches since most readers don't read the page in a linear style. --SuperJew (talk) 09:22, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi SuperJew - it is overlinking. Especially because by the end of the season when all the matches have been played and input into the wikipedia article, there will usually end up being 50-60 links to the club's main article, if not more. That's just way too much. To me, it is also an eyesore when an entire article is just clickable links. I understand your point of view about a reader scrolling down and as a habit, I tend to leave the first match in every competition linked. That way, the season article usually still ends up with about 10 links back to the main article (from the infobox to prose to statistics and competitions sections). But I also think a reader will more than likely end up on the 2021–22 Adelaide season article because they were already on the Adelaide main article or an associated article recently. Rupert1904 (talk) 06:55, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, I guess we'll not agree on this. Regardless, I think it should be a consistent decision and it's weird that currently it's in a handful of season articles, but not the others. I will link this discussion from the task force talk page to get some more input to make a project consensus. --SuperJew (talk) 09:24, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Interesting that SuperJew is seeking feedback from others! Nonetheless, my opinion is that SuperJew is correct in terms of how Wikipedia is accessed intra-season; perhaps from a longer-term perspective the overlinknig later needs to be addressed (i.e. post-season). Matilda Maniac (talk) 10:02, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * My personal view is that the repeated links are unnecessary. A reader of the article does not need hundreds of links back to the club which the article is about.
 * Having looked at club season articles which are FLs/GAs, it seems both ways (with/without links) are used fairly regularly. Similarly, it looks like this was already discussed on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 125 (including by) without any consensus one way or the other.
 * So I think the unsatisfying answer is that for now, both/either are ok. Maybe worth re-raising on WT:FOOTY (it does impact a lot of pages) - although no reason to expect we'd get a clear consensus even still. Macosal (talk) 10:29, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * By its very definition it is overelinking and SuperJew is not even denying that so I don't understand the issue there. The biggest issue to me, is that this wouldn't even be a problem if people were actually following the MOS for season articles and used the table for match results. Rupert1904 (talk) 07:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I actually don't think it is overlinking, as per what I quoted earlier, overlinking refers only to prose when an article is read in a linear fashion, which in my opinion and understanding is not what happens on a club season article. --SuperJew (talk) 16:44, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I’m not sure where you’re getting that from? Per WP:OVERLINK, “An overlinked article contains an excessive number of links“, and Overlinking considerations are applied everywhere (including tables) - player career statistics tables immediately come to mind. On the MOS point, the club season article MOS now suggests using tables or templates to show results (either is acceptable). Macosal (talk) 22:42, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Overlinking considerations are being applied, but not neccesarily correctly. I've seen it applied on tables as you said (while MOS:DUPLINK says Generally, a link should appear only once in an article but may be repeated, if helpful for readers, in infoboxes, tables) and for citations (while it says Citations stand alone in their usage, so there is no problem with repeating the same link in many citations within an article). Regarding the case of matchboxes here note Duplicate linking in stand-alone and embedded lists is permissible if it significantly aids the reader. This is most often the case when the list is presenting information that could just as aptly be formatted in a table, and is expected to be parsed for particular bits of data, not read from top to bottom. If the list is normal article prose that happens to be formatted as a list, treat it as normal article prose. which is relevant in my understanding. We are talking basically about a list of matches, which could also be formatted in a table (as the famous MOS argument mentioned above supports). The question therefore is whether it significantly aids the reader, which I believe it does. --SuperJew (talk) 06:55, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Cristiano Ronaldo
User:FMSky already pointed you to the MOS guideline so I don't need to. You just ignored them. – PeeJay 23:18, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The MOS guideline also says okay to abbreviate consecutive years. If I am going against the MOS guideline, why is every competition and season article abbreviated? Rupert1904 (talk) 23:20, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

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Queen of the South season pages
Why do you keep changing all the existing Queen of the South season pages? You have changed the current 2021-22 season order of league and cups in the disciplinary record, top scorers and clean sheets lists and not altered the squad list? You should change this one also. Rusty1111 : Talk 09:09, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Rusty1111 - I will try to get to that as well. I must admit, the team stats tables are always a challenge for me though. It's daunting. I am just trying to improve the Queens article and a lot of other season articles in Scottish football so that the domestic cups are ordered correctly and in line with the wikipedia MOS. It's a lot of work and I know you do a ton of great edits on Scottish football, and wikifootball in general, so any help is appreciated. Thanks! :) Rupert1904 (talk) 19:39, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

No worries. I shall try to do those updates myself at some point. Rusty1111 : Talk 23:24, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

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Hi
I saw nehme does same to you, lets gather few neutral users who can stop his unthinkable attacks against lebanese club pages 93.142.147.222 (talk) 05:44, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Stop harassing them. Disagreements occur all the time at Wikipedia and at WP:FOOTY. We discuss them instead of ganging up on individuals. Robby.is.on (talk) 08:37, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

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"National cup", "League cup"
Hi there. Thanks for cleaning up Benni McCarthy, Mehdi Bourabia and other articles. Good work! One minor nitpick: A while ago it was agreed that "National cup" and "League cup" should be spelt with a lower-case c – unless we're using the name of a specific competition like FA Cup. This consensus is reflected at WikiProject Football/Players. I've fixed that at Benni McCarthy and Mehdi Bourabia. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 22:11, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Conor Gallagher
Your edit is seeking to change a long-standing, stable version. Currently you have no support for a change. It is controversial and has been reverted. Please take to the talk page to see consensus for the change per WP:BRD. GiantSnowman 18:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)


 * No support for a change? controversial? What are you talking about? Rupert1904 (talk) 18:45, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I've explained myself clearly. You are making a change, that change has been reverted back to the status quo, and so you need to discuss it, rather than edit war. Do you understand that concept at least? GiantSnowman 18:47, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This is in no way a bold change; you're being superfluous by suggesting that. You might have explained yourself but that doesn't mean you are right whatsoever. Please check Career statistics on how tables are constructed for players. He has already played in a continental competition and will play in said competition again this season. Rupert1904 (talk) 18:56, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That is a complete precedent template - not to be used on every article. It is a bold change and I am merely inviting you to discuss it on the talk page rather than edit warring, but you seem unable to do so. Also saying that he " will play in said competition again this season" is pure WP:CRYSTAL. GiantSnowman 18:59, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay. I will come back here in two nights and add the continental column once he has another appearance. Rupert1904 (talk) 19:00, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Great - and I'll revert you again. A handful of appearances across one season does not not justify an entirely separate column. GiantSnowman 19:02, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * so why do you keep the league cup column? Rupert1904 (talk) 19:02, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Because a) that is a standard column and b) he has played in more than one season. GiantSnowman 19:04, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * continental is also a standard column. Rupert1904 (talk) 19:05, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * No, it is not. It only applies to a relative handful of players who play regularly in continental competitions. The vast majority of players do not have it. GiantSnowman 19:06, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * More players have the opportunity to play in continental competitions than the league cup. Only a handful of nations have a league cup and the number gets smaller every year. Rupert1904 (talk) 19:08, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. In the English system, 5/6 clubs out of 92 play in continental competitions - but all 92 play in the League Cup. however, if a player has only played in countries without league cup competition, then that column can be removed (as it is in all the Norwegian articles I edit, for example). GiantSnowman 19:10, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * As I said, only a handful of nations around the world have a league cup. Plus there is much more to the English football pyramid than the top 4 leagues and none of those players in the divisions below qualify for the EFL Cup. The columns are just as relevant and standard. Rupert1904 (talk) 19:14, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

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