User talk:Ryan4314/Sandboxes/HMS Cardiff (D108)

first female chaplain Ryan4314 (talk) 00:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

When did they stick Phalanx on? (1984)

Format for cost?

Resources
Motto
 * http://www.navynews.co.uk/falklands/ships/cardiff.asp# 1978 Orig captain & Pre Falklands info
 * http://hmscardiff.co.uk/default.aspx HMS Cardiff
 * http://www.nlw.org.uk/cgi-bin/anw/fulldesc_nofr?inst_id=33&coll_id=77745&expand= Official database thing
 * http://www.naval-history.net/ mainly WW2
 * http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmhansrd/vo000317/text/00317w03.htm Speech in commons
 * http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/type_42_destroyers.htm#HMS%20Cardiff Just pics
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=iDeBCVj_PJQC&pg=PA216&dq=%22hms+cardiff%22&sig=nE95gGQJ1w5ZY8A3R9VX3Gv7O7k End of an era book
 * http://edgeofthecentre.blogspot.com/2007/08/hms-cardiffs-bell-welcomed-home.html Cardiff's Bell
 * http://www.navynews.co.uk/ships/cardiff.asp after Gulf 1
 * http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.aspx?pdf=52589&geotype=London&gpn=43&type=ArchivedSupplementPage&all=&exact=HMS%20Cardiff&atleast=&similar= Gulf 1
 * http://www.seayourhistory.org.uk/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,402/g2_itemId,14052/type,search/ returning from Gulf 1
 * http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.3416/changeNav/3533 Hurricane keith
 * http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.3706/changeNav/3533 Iraq war
 * http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.3440/changeNav/3533 29th Nov 2000 (more inbetween Gulf and decomiss stuff)
 * http://www.welshpedia.co.uk/wiki/wales/index.php?title=HMS_Cardiff_(D108) Welsh wiki (info only)
 * http://beehive.thisissouthwales.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=9441&PageID=52347 Gilmore
 * http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/type42.htm Batches
 * http://www.gillespie.ndo.co.uk/Navy/Type42.htm generic, batches
 * http://military-today.com/navy/type_42_sheffield_class.htm Sheffield class
 * http://www.armedforces.co.uk/navy/listings/l0014.html type 42 blah blah
 * http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=2883&formato=HTML Odd Mecropress story
 * http://www.hmscoventry.co.uk/seaoffire.html Coventry's page
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=Nq3wiTp3c8kC&pg=PA62&vq=cardiff&dq=Battle+Atlas+of+the+Falklands+War+1982+by+Land,+Sea+and+Air&sig=1KTBA26pDkiEEa8yVSx1dYt4rBo#PPA62,M1 gulf tour

Gulf 1

 * http://books.google.com/books?id=7L-PvBlfFW0C&pg=PT91&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&sig=nvKGrS3thX3B-aXrxzdxxLKQewE 815 sq
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=TmP27lCid8AC&pg=PA151&vq=cardiff&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&source=gbs_search_s&cad=5&sig=x3fcor8AbXlX_VRKUWtOu27xUWc
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=sc70B_C3_UsC&pg=PA140&dq=HMS+Cardiff&sig=Z6y4MIEtJu_gDZu_t_8e7vb6Hk8#PPA140,M1
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=erVzmflT2MIC&pg=PA58&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&as_brr=3&sig=uEBsOPwafDplpBkqdPMK7YmJCIs
 * http://www.btinternet.com/~warship/Feature/gulf.htm
 * http://www.britains-smallwars.com/gulf/sea-war.html
 * http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.aspx?pdf=52589&geotype=London&gpn=39&type=ArchivedSupplementPage&exact=HMS%20Cardiff pg 3 & 7

Timeline

 * http://www.navynews.co.uk/falklands/day_may.asp Navy News timeline
 * http://www.rna-10-area.co.uk/falklands.html Lynx attack
 * http://hmscardiff.co.uk/rop.aspx really official looking timeline!
 * http://www.raf.mod.uk/falklands/background.html Falklands campaign 82

Decommissioning

 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4654149.stm
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6686029.stm
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3051764.stm
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4633095.stm
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3051484.stm
 * http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/expats/tm_objectid=15341261&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=hms-cardiff-to-be-decommissioned-name_page.html

Phalanx

 * http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_type42destroyer.html
 * http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/rn/destroyers/type42/

Google Books
*http://books.google.com/books?id=0AnCjfm55BMC&pg=PA67&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&sig=_1FAq5q0IMmdXvTSzuSOogHZ7lM#PPA84,M1 Falklands or Gulf? Fiction!
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=Z7oyS1HviOcC&pg=PA25&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&as_brr=3&sig=Hqb8Y9L3JA_z4ivoILYv3AtwKKs#PPA25,M1 Tiger bay
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=vlvDowMvJ-kC&pg=PA61&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&as_brr=3&sig=LsYC3lNPzEsBwxxBsZ8oXiIq13o 1994 Gulf
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=9sgMI18jDWMC&pg=PA67&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&as_brr=3&sig=OUGbI3tEIOqIHoqOhZtAXrj8Szg 2000 test
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=PSsxmXWChqIC&pg=RA1-PA55&vq=cardiff&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&as_brr=3&source=gbs_search_s&sig=nQiu9zuCgzjehoZSWMroqtYOoC0 Bristol group
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=7L-PvBlfFW0C&pg=PT91&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&sig=nvKGrS3thX3B-aXrxzdxxLKQewE Gulf 815 sq
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=TmP27lCid8AC&pg=PA151&vq=cardiff&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&source=gbs_search_s&cad=5&sig=x3fcor8AbXlX_VRKUWtOu27xUWc stepping stones
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=Nq3wiTp3c8kC&pg=PA84&vq=cardiff&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&source=gbs_search_s&sig=aGUxBgYlhkDeYUGvAV_ajCgW9W4 Cardiff replaced Glasgow?
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=oSZHqtcBBKEC&pg=PA119&vq=cardiff&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&source=gbs_search_s&sig=1gnWUEj2rqDGNwTdNjMhsmgG-Kk 15 million!?
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=2YaHXQHxtuoC&pg=RA1-PA218&vq=cardiff&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&source=gbs_search_s&sig=q23C0WY1w5K6uWNcr9RaCcnKyuc lear jet & NGS
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=GtZTgkiMJxoC&pg=PA163&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&sig=aEmulkvfzw5fIXafHaceoqzvhj0#PPA163,M1 French?
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=sc70B_C3_UsC&pg=PA140&dq=HMS+Cardiff&sig=Z6y4MIEtJu_gDZu_t_8e7vb6Hk8 gulf again
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=erVzmflT2MIC&pg=PA58&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&as_brr=3&sig=uEBsOPwafDplpBkqdPMK7YmJCIs more gulf

Gazelle

 * http://www.naval-history.net/F63braircraftlost.htm
 * http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PBZ/is_6_84/ai_n14699964
 * http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/ATB/index.htm
 * http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-127798918.html
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=L3tjkgpS5jAC&pg=PA197&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&sig=DOfT1Dg0uFvResfIWhmELC11pZI gazelle iff
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=Nq3wiTp3c8kC&pg=PA85&vq=cardiff&dq=Battle+Atlas+of+the+Falklands+War+1982+by+Land,+Sea+and+Air&sig=_mOtnbCfZxT9Gmwj7jDcsEl_Ozk#PPA97,M1
 * http://www.army.mod.uk/linkedfiles/royalsignals/thewire/wire2004aug.pdf

Starshell

 * http://books.google.com/books?id=gNb9YyNCXksC&pg=PA58&vq=star+shell&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22+starshell&source=gbs_search_s&sig=4qDcxXrwedFyY5acLN4wRPBMZU0
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=gNb9YyNCXksC&pg=PA58&dq=%22HMS+Cardiff%22&lr=&as_brr=3&sig=4qDcxXrwedFyY5acLN4wRPBMZU0 star shell, frigate f up

Relieving Glasgow

 * http://www.harpoonhq.com/harpoon3/scenarios/plot-falklands.html
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=Nq3wiTp3c8kC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Battle+Atlas+of+the+Falklands+War+1982+by+Land,+Sea+and+Air&sig=xUhz_KMloEThczrkbErxBAVhYjs#PPA84,M1

Lynx Attack

 * http://www.fuerzaaerea.mil.ar/conflicto/dias/jun13.html

Canberra

 * http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/argentine-aircraftlosses.html

Tiger Bay
Ryan4314 (talk) 19:09, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/ships.htm
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=Z7oyS1HviOcC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=%22hms+tiger+bay%22&source=web&ots=70XoFPxSRS&sig=XjRTJKBIRC5NR0rqQ39Kdg1hiJM#PPA25,M1
 * http://hmscardiff.co.uk/southatlantic.aspx
 * http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/barracks/4333/ftgch01.htm
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=iIUgAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22hms+tiger+bay%22&q=%22hms+tiger+bay%22&pgis=1#search
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=uL4dAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22hms+tiger+bay%22&q=%22hms+tiger+bay%22&pgis=1#search

Lynx 335
Ryan4314 (talk) 20:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1091424/
 * http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=photo_id%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=60&&aircraftsearch=Westland%20WG-13%20Lynx%20HAS3SGM&thumbnails=

Gazelle
The Gazelle was shot down before the star shell incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Griffiths911 (talk • contribs) 14:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, you are quite correct. Also I need to change that source, it's the wrong one. As ever, grateful for your wisdom. Ryan4314 (talk) 15:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Port Howard 'message'
Small point. What you see is a SIGNAL not a message. I've cropped some of the signal (from above, as it includes the addressee of the task group.........thought it might be classified - condition reflex). Do yo want the signal in full? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.39.37 (talk) 17:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Jesus! Make sure you remove anything that might be "top secret" (including the whole signal if need be), or maybe re-upload with "black bars", coz I don't need the SBS kicking my door/head in ;) Ryan4314 (talk) 12:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem, it was written with the purpose of releasing it to press. It just had the task force adressee on it and I automatically cropped it..............don't panic Mr Mannering LOL.Griffiths911 (talk) 12:39, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ha ha ha, I'm paranoid that a Nimrod is circling my house. Ryan4314 (talk) 13:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Lt Clayton
Go on then, what magic have you done to describe the Lynx being attacked by the Mirage?Griffiths911 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 12:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Bloody hell, you don't want much do you? I would've thought a picture of him and ref leading to his Mention in Dispatches would be enough. ;)


 * listen though, have a more serious problem to worry about. You see the Post Falklands War (1982-1990) header, well I don't have any info for that section, other than that they whacked a Phalanx on. Now we have to fill that section because FA grade ship articles have a sort of chronology of headers and the reviewers will definately notice a 9 year gap in the sections. Is there anything you can tell me? Or can perhaps find out from your fellow crew mates? At least that way I'll have the info and can just try to find sources for it. Any trivial bit of info will do, I might even cheat a little and use that section to primarily talk about Cardiff returning home. Ryan4314 (talk) 13:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't see a pic of him and his Mention in Despatches..........where are they? I'll have a sniff around re 1982-1990.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Griffiths911 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You silly fish head, they're at the very bottom (waiting to be moved up). Although when I said "pic of him", I actually should have emphasized "your pic of him", mind it's definately an "action shot". Ryan4314 (talk) 02:01, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, silly old me........yes I see that was clever.Griffiths911 (talk) 20:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Her duties (NGS AAW picket)
You may want to consider doing a bit of shifting around here. Cardiff's primary role down south was AAW. Most of the time we were down threat as the first line of defence. That is what she was built for and the NGS was very much a dark hours secondary role. A reader may get the impression that Cardiff's primary role was to provide NGS....not so. What do you think?Griffiths911 (talk) 05:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm very glad you mentioned this, I couldn't tell if it was me. I knew the type 42's main role was anti air, but I found the picture of the gun with the spent shells so thrilling, that I replaced the knackered Sea Dart launcher with it. Hence with the structure of the paragraph, I too began to suspect it gave more emphasis on NGS. Ryan4314 (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just realised, the sentence at the moment says "She also gave NGS (Naval Gunfire Support) to British troops ashore", did Cardiff actually give support to the troops, or was she one of the chips that was charged with "keeping the Argies in Port Stanley awake at night", or did she do both? Ryan4314 (talk) 10:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * We did NGS with the aid of a spotter ashore (SAS/SBS/Army). I remember listening to the spotters on the NGS net........they would be panting and whispering as the moved around the enemy positions.Griffiths911 (talk) 11:01, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * How extraordinary! Yes I expect they certainly were out of breath. Again out of curiosity, did you "as a radar operator" ever act as the "D" I believe they call it? The ship that finds targets for the harriers and then vectors them on I think. Ryan4314 (talk) 12:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, our fighter controller took control of the CAP on quite a few occasions but he didn't get any real 'trade' (that's what they called enemy aircraft available for interception).Griffiths911 (talk) 20:19, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Gazelle IFF.....prevailing factors
I've read about IFF being a factor and can tell you it was very much made a contributory factor after the incident occurred. Let me try to explain. When the wreckage of the Gazelle was found it's onboard IFF was indeed found to be in the OFF position. In 1982 Cardiff's IFF interrogator, the aerial that transmits a signal to any aircraft within range with an IFF transponder (the device on the aircraft the replies to the interrogation) was bolted on top of the long range radar 965 (biggest aerial onboard). The rotation speed of 965 is 11 rotations per minute........desperately slow when in a close range encounter with a potential enemy aircraft and it was quite normal to receive a NONE NONE NONE reply in mode 1, 2, 3....(1. 'Where are you from'? 2. 'Who are you'? 3. 'What is your task'?) as the aircraft might be manoeuvring and masking its transponder. So, it takes 11 seconds for our aerial to start the interrogation process, then the aircraft has to respond to the interrogation and then Cardiff's computers have to decode the signal and display them in three sets of four digit numbers (mode 1 2 3) to the radar operator. On the bridge that night I could hear the internal 'chatter' from the Ops Room on various speakers and the whole engagement was over within minutes. That Gazelle was shot down because we were shelling enemy troops at the time and up pops an unannounced aircraft that at one stage manoeuvred towards Cardiff. I remember at the time there was a general opinion that it could have been a bold Pucara pilot sent on a strafing mission against us. Some bastard failed to tell us that there was a friendly flying close to us whilst we were carrying out NGS close to enemy held territory. In my view it was a catastrophic failure of communications between commander ashore and those at sea that was the primary reason for the Blue/Blue and IFF secondary. I understand you have to write what you have researched but I just thought you might be interested in what I have to say.Griffiths911 (talk) 06:08, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem, I can implement those changes easily, in fact I think it was me who added the "prevailing" word as a way of linking the 2 sources I had. Ryan4314 (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Scotts Guard
Check.........should it read Scotts Guards? Please see my input as being helpful and not critical, I think you are doing a fantastic job.Griffiths911 (talk) 07:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Your input is most definitely helpful, I know it appears my progress is slow given the amount of text on the article, but that's because writing at this level you literally have to scrutinize/research every sentence (and still miss stuff). It's very important to me to have you (and by extension the rest of Cardiff's crew) "on-board", part of what hinders me is my lack of knowledge on the subject matter. For instance I found "how IFF works" very interesting, in future don't worry about offending me, just tell it to me straight. Don't hold any minor detail back as only the article will suffer, although I am never adverse to shameless praise ;) Ryan4314 (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Cardiff's Lynx nick name
Just remembered, it was called IVORGriffiths911 (talk) 07:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Is that an "official" name? Meaning would it appear on reports etc? How/who usually chooses it? Ryan4314 (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The nick name of the Lynx would never appear on official tasking signals/documentation anywhere and I have no idea where the name comes from. I think I have a pic of 335 with IVOR painted on the nose.  I'll dig it out for you.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Griffiths911 (talk • contribs) 11:07, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That'd be really great! Ryan4314 (talk) 17:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:HMS Cardiff Crest.gif
Image:HMS Cardiff Crest.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)