User talk:S.A. Julio/Footballer categories

examples
Hi. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC) I got the basic idea of
 * Category:Footballers in by club
 * Category:Men's footballers in by club
 * You don't have to create a list of all the categories :-) two examples of all the types/scenario would be enough. If I have some doubt, I will ask you. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've now added other examples as well. S.A. Julio (talk) 16:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. I'm currently on mobile, and have couple of doubts. I will be on computer in 15ish hours, and I will let you know if I still have doubts. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks. S.A. Julio (talk) 00:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Any update on whether this would be possible? S.A. Julio (talk) 22:41, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. I apologise, but I am still not sure what exactly needs to be done. I also apologise for you having to do so much work. Would you please do only 5 to 10 edits manually that need to be done by the bot? Sorry again. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I need to see the diffs only, if the edits are already done in the past, that would be okay too. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I have updated the page with examples from the already-completed Denmark categories. Let me know if this makes more sense. Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 20:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi. We are updating "" → "Men's footballers in England by club". But do we want to update its subcategory as well? Currently, the structure is as follows, do we want to update all the categories up to  as well? Where do/should we stop? —usernamekiran (talk) 12:53, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Footballers in England
 * Category:English footballers‎
 * Category:Footballers by city or town in England‎
 * Category:Footballers from Barnsley‎ (no subcats)
 * Category:Footballers from Greater London‎ (subcat of "by city or town in England‎", like Barnsley)
 * Category:Footballers from London by locality‎
 * Category:Footballers from Acton, London‎


 * Do you mean should (a) be moved to "Men's footballers in England by club" or (b) be subdivided as well? Because it would be yes to the first question, and no to the second. There are up to five types of categories that need to be split per country. Using England as an example, the only categories needing changing are: (1)  to "Men's footballers in England", (2)  to "English men's footballers", (3)  to "English expatriate men's footballers", (4)  to "Expatriate men's footballers in England", (5)  to "Men's footballers in England by club". S.A. Julio (talk) 15:33, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yes, I was asking about moving. I thought the new category would be "Men's Abbey Hey F.C. players‎", or something like that. There are 282 pages in Category:Footballers from Greater London‎, are we supposed to move these ~282 articles to "Men's footballers from Greater London"? Do we want to do this to all the subcategories, until there are none? —usernamekiran (talk) 16:06, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, club categories are based on the article title, and we usually have separate pages for men's/women's teams (e.g. Arsenal F.C./Arsenal W.F.C. and /), so nothing needs to change with the category title. No other types of category, such as by city, need to be divided either, just aforementioned five category trees. S.A. Julio (talk) 21:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi. I have created a program that would go through first categories of, and add "Men's" in front of all categories, and then it will de-capitalise the "F" of "Footballers". For example, it will go through "Footballers in Afghanistan‎", "Footballers in Albania‎", and all the categories, then it will update the articles to "Men's footballers in Afghanistan‎". Like in this edit (kindly disregard the edit summary. For now, the program will exclude "Men's association football players by country‎", "Women's association football players by country‎", "Association football players by country and competition‎", and "LGBT association football players by country‎" (these are hard-coded exceptions). I have also added exception for the articles that contain categories with "Women" in it. It also updates "Soccer players in Australia‎" → "Men's soccer players in Australia". This is what you are expecting, right? The program will also create the new Men's category if does not exist. eg: "Category:Men's footballers in Afghanistan". What should be the content of newly created category? Let me know if I got that wrong, or if there are any suggestions. —usernamekiran (talk) 11:47, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, also worth mentioning that New Zealand, Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland all use "association footballers". In addition, the "Men's footballers in " categories will typically only be populated with the other types of categories you are creating (see for example the first 4 subcategories of ), so not many pages will need to be moved from "footballers in" to "men's footballers in". Therefore once these are created, it should be followed up shortly after with the creation of other categories, such as the men's nationality, otherwise they may be tagged for speedy deletion as empty. As for the contents of these "Footballers in" categories, see below for an example. S.A. Julio (talk) 14:18, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. What is the smallest category that you can think of (in "Category:Association football players by country")? We can take it as an example, and create a code/program for all the scenarios/various combinations. I haven't gone through a lot of categories, but how about ? Can you give an example of the category when you said "categories such as the men's nationality"? I think I can create the code which would create the nationality category as next step. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'll base this off the contents of . Once is created, it should have only two subcategories:  and . Therefore,  will not be populated until the two aforementioned subcategories are also created. S.A. Julio (talk) 15:38, 5 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, what should be categories like should be renamed to? "Men's footballers in the Isle of Man‎"? And what should be their content  ? or should "Isle of Man" be prefixed with "the"? —usernamekiran (talk) 15:40, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I created User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories, would you kindly edit it accordingly? Meanwhile, I will go through thoroughly. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I've updated that page now. As for the Isle of Man, the title is correct, and it should not be prefixed with "the". Also, if you want a full list of nationality categories to split, see User:S.A. Julio/Footballer categories/Tree. S.A. Julio (talk) 16:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Just one request for a couple of days: would you please go through all the subcats of following Afghan tree, and update User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories again, with the "desired change", "skip", and "no change"? (I have also added the categories on my userpage) —usernamekiran (talk) 17:30, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Select [►] to view subcategories For the sake of clarity, I just added the full list of categories needing to be created on your userpage. No other categories than just the ones I listed need to be modified. Hopefully this should make things somewhat simpler. S.A. Julio (talk) 03:59, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That was really very grand of you. I apologise, you had to go through a lot of trouble because of me. Yesterday, I realised you are a template editor, so I have technical question for you: if, and  , then would it be okay if we create new category (Men's footballers in Dominica) with content  ? This would add the content as  , but would this method be okay, or would it cause any undesired edits/combination with some titles? —usernamekiran (talk) 09:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That would work, but the new category should also contain . S.A. Julio (talk) 11:34, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I did some tests in my userspace for a simple way to generate the correct code for creating every category. All you have to do is enter the following text when creating a category: . For example, paste the code into  or  and click "show changes". Would this be useful at all? S.A. Julio (talk) 12:46, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks again, I had finished with the program for "Category format: ` footballers`" a few hours ago. The only remaining thing was a regex related to "the" from a country's name. I couldn't remember if we wanted to keep or exclude "the", so I had kept that issue pending. I will use your code. Again, thanks a lot, I feel like putting too much burden/workload on you. I had used a very simplistic/minimal, but very effective method to capture the country's name. Thanks again —usernamekiran (talk) 13:12, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It's no problem, recently I've had to go through many categories anyways to fix unrelated issues, so I've become somewhat efficient. Regarding category sortkeys, "the" should be excluded. S.A. Julio (talk) 13:24, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * One other thing to note, some of the club player categories have their categories generated by Template:Clubplayerscat. For example, see the wikitext of : via the aforementioned template, it is categorized within . Therefore, to move the Juventus category to "Men's footballers in Italy by club", the code of this template has to be changed to use "Men's". S.A. Julio (talk) 22:18, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

category contents
(continuing the discussion from the thread above) I couldn't find "Category:Juventus F.C. players" on User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories, so I am not sure what it has do with our moves. But if you want to update "Category:Juventus F.C. players" as well, and if we are running a bot to create new categories for men, then wouldn't it be better to create the new categories without transclusion (maybe adding the original categories, or substituting them like User:S.A. Julio/Fbcat)?Regarding "Footballers in by club" I can easily create a I can easily create a code to capture country from the older category, and add it to new category's body as. For example, "Category:Footballers in Italy by club" will be moved to "Category:Men's footballers in Italy by club", and it will have the three new categories in content including Regarding "Category:Juventus F.C. players", if you want to move them as well, I can create a program that create the new category by adding "Men's" as prefix to the older category - "Men's Juventus F.C. players", and create content by removing the "players" from old category's name, ("Category:Juventus F.C." or "Category:Men's Juventus F.C."), the second category can be created by reading the parameter from "Clubplayerscat|Italy", "Men's footballers in Italy by club" or "Footballers in Italy by club" (whatever we need it to be). According to this, the template is transcluded on around 4,499 pages. —usernamekiran (talk) 10:57, 8 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry if I was not clear, the Juventus category does not need to be moved, I mentioned it because it is a member of . As listed on User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories, the contents of "Footballers in Italy by club" are to be moved by the bot to "Men's footballers in Italy by club". However, a bot will not be able to perform this category change to the Juventus page, as its categories are not included in the wikitext, but rather are generated through a template. So a change to the template will need to be made once "Men's footballers in Italy by club" is created. I can make this template change, just thought I would let you know before the bot runs. S.A. Julio (talk) 11:58, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * yes, that's what I was saying, I can create a bot to convert the template into categories, but without moving the categories, this would be WP:COSMETICBOT. In case we want to move the categories, then the bot can read the country parameter from Clubplayerscat, and create the categories accordingly instead of using Clubplayerscat template. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:07, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think the template necessarily needs to be replaced, it seems to be a useful way to format the pages. The template code just needs to be updated once the bot starts creating the "Men's footballers in by club" categories. S.A. Julio (talk) 13:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * oh, okay. no issues there. —usernamekiran (talk) 13:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi. When creating the category "Expatriate men's association footballers in the Republic of Ireland", what should its content be?

I am not sure if the content above is correct. —usernamekiran (talk) 10:31, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The sort key for the third category should omit "the". Also note that the title of the first two categories should use "association footballers". S.A. Julio (talk) 17:06, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi. But the details at User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories says (which I followed) the following format should be used:

Should we use "Expatriate footballers in " or "Expatriate association footballers in "? (same Q for "Men's footballers in " vs "Men's association footballers in ") —usernamekiran (talk) 11:47, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I apologise for the confusion. We want "association footballers" in category content if the original category has it as well, correct? —usernamekiran (talk) 14:46, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Correct, "footballers" should be substituted with "association footballers" for Ireland, Irish Free State, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland and New Zealand, while it should be substituted with "soccer players" for Australia, Canada, South Africa, United States and United States Virgin Islands. S.A. Julio (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

I made some changes in the program, and tested it. Following is the output of for few categories (the category after the line "Replaced category for page "User:KiranBOT/sandbox4"" is the new category). Is this content okay? —usernamekiran (talk) 02:57, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The code is mostly correct, however the name of third category needs to remain constant: . S.A. Julio (talk) 03:28, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi. I updated the program accordingly. Kindly see the subsection below. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:43, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

footballers
Hello. I created User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories/nationalities, these entries are in my source code for pairing/matching "country", and "nationality" with each-other. For example, the program will get nationality as "Algerian" from "Category:Algerian footballers", and then it will pair it up with "Algeria" as country, and then it will substitute the values in content:. Would you kindly go through all the entries at User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories/nationalities, I think I have added all the countries/nationalities that we are currently working with, I might have missed a couple. But I am not sure if I got all the combinations correct. —usernamekiran (talk) 06:29, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I've updated the list with a few corrections, should now be complete. By the way, I may have written it somewhere but a few regions (Georgia, Northern Ireland, Russian Empire, Réunion) use a different naming scheme for nationality, e.g. instead of "Réunion footballers". S.A. Julio (talk) 07:05, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

category contents
I tested the program on the above seven categories, and got these results. I am not sure about the output for Australia, and "soccer" in general. Kindly let me know what do we want as Australia's content, and if we should test it with more categories. There are no actual edits, but I get the content printed on my command prompt. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:43, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Australia would need to use "soccer", Republic of Ireland needs "association footballers", Georgia/Réunion/Russian Empire needs to be formatted as "Footballers/Sportsmen from ". I feel like this is taking a lot of time for you to code every exception to the general rules. I mentioned a shortcut I had begun to work on earlier: . All the bot would have to do is create the category with that code as the contents, and it would generate all the correct categories. Then you wouldn't have to spend time working on supporting every outlier. S.A. Julio (talk) 20:30, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * no, it's not difficult at all. One exception needs only two small lines. Its just, I'm not getting much free time. Kindly do not bother with creating the template, I will create the code. —usernamekiran (talk) 20:41, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. Can you give me example of for Australia, Republic of Ireland, and Réunion? —usernamekiran (talk) 21:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, see below. S.A. Julio (talk) 21:26, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Are the above contents (version 3, I think) of categories okay? —usernamekiran (talk) 23:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Only issue is that it should be "Men's footballers in the Republic of Ireland" and "from/in the Russian Empire". S.A. Julio (talk) 23:24, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I updated the code, and pasted "version 4" above. Kindly let me know if everything is okay with it, or if we need to do some changes. —usernamekiran (talk) 00:27, 20 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Should be "Footballers from Russian Empire" and "in the Republic of the Congo". Also, could the sort key for Australian sportsmen be "soccer", and for the Republic of Ireland sportsmen be "association footballers"? S.A. Julio (talk) 00:59, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I will look into it after 15ish hours. —usernamekiran (talk) 01:03, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello. Do we need "soccer" as the sort key only for Australia, or all the countries using soccer eg: "South African soccer players"? Both the conditions are easy. —usernamekiran (talk) 11:20, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, a modified sort key for all countries using "soccer" or "association football". S.A. Julio (talk) 15:41, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am a little confused here, its already "Footballers from Russian Empire", or are you referring to something else? —usernamekiran (talk) 11:35, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry a typo, I meant " the Russian Empire". S.A. Julio (talk) 15:41, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am done with five different programs for the five types of categories. All we need to do now is to finalise the content of output categories. Its not much of a bother − just copy-paste the code (from the same or different program), and change a few characters. I apologise, I have been a little "thick headed", I am not sure why, but I am having difficulties to understand the desired output for category contents. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:33, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! Maybe once you are done with that, I could request the output of a few categories for one final check? And it's no issue, going through all these different categories, exceptions, etc. can be mind-numbing. S.A. Julio (talk) 15:48, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * actually, printing the output for all the categories would be more easier. That way, we can also see if there is something unexpected. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:55, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I meant, adding/removing/substituting football/soccer/association, removing "the", and similar stuff is not at all difficult. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:45, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

program
Hello. I have finished the code for "Footballers in ", and " footballers". I can not find any issues with the code as for now. I have been very busy in real life, and starting from 15ish hours from now, I should be less busy. The rest of the programs should be ready fairly quickly. I will file the BRFA once all the programs are ready, so that I can start working on all the categories, and the categories would not be eligible for speedy for not being populated. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:11, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Great, let me know if there is anything needed from me. Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 18:10, 14 May 2023 (UTC)