User talk:SKeptical of Love

February 2012
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Lela Star with this edit, did not appear to be constructive, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Jim1138 (talk) 07:24, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to attack other editors, as you did on User_talk:Jim1138. Please comment on the content and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. You are welcome to rephrase your comment as a civil criticism of the article. Thank you. Gorlack36 (talk) 07:26, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi there
Hi there SKeptical of Love. I saw that you were having difficulty. But in about 12 months from now, it won't seem that way at all. Where you told someone to "shut up" I think someone was saying it wasn't polite. Generally, people here will upset you at first. If you really need to tell someone they are not being nice to you, you might like to say it in wikipedia language, you'd say "WP:don't be a dick" instead of the real life "shut up".

I see that you are rather sad, and don't feel very good. If you want to fix that, I suggest that you find people who are in a worse situation than you, and help them. If you ask at your local place of worship, like a church for example if there is a program to help people who are sad, they might know of something you can do to help. You'll feel better and make friends. People like it when you help them. If you can't find a place to volunteer, look about for someone close to you that you can help. This is easy to do, and it will cheer you up. Also, if nobody close to you needs help, then travel. There are many people who are dying of starvation and simple things that you can help with to save their lives. This is very easy to do, and you'll feel better. Don't worry about love, just try to have fun. People who are enjoying life and having fun, like having fun helping people are very attractive. People who are sad all the time are not as attractive. So just do not worry if you can, think of something you can do that is worthwhile, and before you know it, things will be better. Penyulap  talk 08:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Something else you can do to be nice on wikipedia, is to be careful editing articles about people, especially if your saying anything that might be insulting to the person who the article is about. Other editors get quite upset at that, and it is something that even editors who have been editors for a long time have to be very careful with. But other articles that are not about people are easier for you to edit, so have a look about and see what takes your interest, if you want any help editing, you can ask me on my talkpage, no problem. Penyulap   talk 08:47, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi again SKeptical of Love, I was looking at some of the other edits that you have made before, when you used other names. I think your having trouble expressing yourself when you have problems with other editors, that's very common on wikipedia.

Wikipedia has it's own language and culture which is different to real life, and different to the rest of the internet. If you use the same language on wikipedia and try to solve problems the same way as in real life, sometimes that works, but usually it doesn't. You need to watch and learn how other editors solve problems, how they speak to each other, how they solve problems, and then act just like the one quarter of them that aren't having arguments. If you can learn fast enough how to speak and act like the wikipedians you will definitely fit right in, as I see you have some promising editing skills. But the people who can't learn to speak wikipedian are usually voted off the wikipedia island like in that TV show survivor the first time they have an argument.

It is very good that you asked for help with the problems you are having with other editors. I do hope I can give you some good advice. I'm glad I saw your note at the ANI, I'm an editor just like you, and I've had plenty of trouble before, so I know what it's like. Try to keep your cool, it's hard to know what to do, but it's easier when you have friends who can give you good advice. Good people gave me advice, and I am happy to help you too. The biggest best advice I can give you at the moment is don't talk to other editors until you have a better idea of what expressions are allowed. It's really hard, not being able to speak, but once you learn how to speak wikipedian you'll be able to say what you want to again. If someone takes out or deletes something you did, don't get upset and talk with them, ask me and I will interpret what they are saying for you, and interpret what you would like to say to them into wiki. If you need to be really expressive, then click on my name, then email this user under interaction on the left hand side. When you write me an email you can be as expressive as you like and I'll interpret for you, how does that sound ?

Other things to keep in mind is that you can't say nasty things about other people, even on my talkpage, and that anything anyone does on the internet is not a secret. If you would like to change your name, I think you can ask an admin to do it for you. They can see when you change you name, and other people can see everything else. Penyulap  talk 16:04, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Is this ok ?
I took the liberty of formatting the poetry on your userpage, I changed this :

All I want is love, But love isn't for me. I'd do anything to find love. That is my downfall- that I care too much. I am too good to be evil and too evil to be good. I am the ghost in the night, the shadow of all life. Hatred and lies is all I know. Judge me and label me. For I have judged and labeled you. Hate me. For I hate you. Together let's show the world its folly: Hope and faith. Belief. Love. Eradicate it and show all who live that love does not exist and only evil can survive.

into this :

All I want is love, But love isn't for me. I'd do anything to find love. That is my downfall- that I care too much. I am too good to be evil and too evil to be good. I am the ghost in the night, the shadow of all life. Hatred and lies is all I know. Judge me and label me. For I have judged and labeled you. Hate me. For I hate you. Together let's show the world its folly: Hope and faith. Belief. Love. Eradicate it and show all who live that love does not exist and only evil can survive.

--SKeptical of Love

someone pointed out that I shouldn't change your userpage without your permission, and I realized my terrible error, as an artist, you may not have wanted that poem presented in such a manner, so I do apologize. If however you like it formatted but do not yet know how to use div style and line height and span style formatting and alignment, I'll be happy to help. Are you interested in poetry ? there are many articles on poetry on wiki. Penyulap  talk 18:22, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for the apology. It was really appreciated. Happy editing Jim1138 (talk) 19:07, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

How to play nice, (better editing).
I see in your recent edit here that you haven't included a reference, which is ok for things that are not controversial, but if someone else hasn't read what you have read, then it may be controversial to them. Like in this case here where someone couldn't find a source and poked their tongue out. Now I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong or even who is who, I'm just pointing out that it's important to put in a source with an edit so that the epidemic of dry-tongue can be stemmed before it's out of hand.

If you unaware of how to do that, what you do is type an edit, then type in the web address where you read something similar to what your saying, and then highlight the web address, click one end and hold the mouse button down then move to the other end and let go, then under the edit box click where it says cite your sources: click on the blue part and then save page. Cool ? then you're a better editor. Penyulap  talk 08:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Wanna be an even better editor.....use the citation formatting accepted for use on Wikipedia. The above editors good faith suggestion is called a "Bare url" reference and is not the proper way to cite a reference. Mainly because websites are not the primary use of reference sources but books and journals.


 * Here is what I suggest. When you are researching a subject... and let us just presume the reference you find is a news article. Websites can be used if they are RS, or Reliable sources, but some news organizations can be considered partisan or biased if they are politically leaning (left or right) such as Huffington Post. You can find more information on this here at Identifying reliable sources. So, when you type the "claim" into the article, directly after the claim you would add the "citation" very similar to what was stated above but in this manner:, filling in the relevant information from the source you are using. To see more about citing news, go to Template:Cite news. Using this format, along with a truly solid, relaible source gives your edit the strongest chance of not being edited out or disputed. Not a guarantee of course...some people will argue anthing. But this shows an effort that is above the beginner at Wikipedia. Here are other citations you can use:

Citing Web sites

 

Citing books

 

Citing Journal

 

To learn more about citations visit Citing sources! Happy editing --Amadscientist (talk) 09:51, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Here is something else you might like to read, it's called Clean start but be sure to let your friends know in email who you are if you'd like them keep an eye on you and help you. Penyulap  talk 11:22, 26 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Amadscientist is quite correct, I think a bare URL will put out a fire between two editors, but it's not the most brilliant way by far. I am terrible at referencing, but some people ask for my help with writing articles. Amadscientist will teach you to do it properly, while I'll just teach you how to avoid a tongue poking out contest. Penyulap   talk 11:28, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Which even I haven't mastered yet! So listen to Penyulap, they sound wise!--Amadscientist (talk) 11:31, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

More signs of a possible epidemic
Hmm, it's worse than I thought, I think this needs to go to arbcomm. Penyulap  talk 13:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi there!
I've noticed the recent problems that you've had, and read your posts over at AN/I.

I think you may find, if you can rein stuff in a bit, that there are quite a few seasoned editors who could help you to learn the ropes here and fit in better. Feel free to come over to my talk page, and just read through, and "lurk in the undergrowth". Just FYI, I'm an HFA myself, and I know that there are quite a few others in the same range here in Wikipedia. We had an interesting chat about this on Jimbo's talk page recently. What it really means is that, for some of us (those of us with "issues", lol!) life can be a bit hard in here working out exactly what other people mean; we misunderstand, and we get misunderstood, a bit more than many others.

Having said all that, if you can find a group of editors who you can actually get on with really well, and who are good teachers, and understanding, and tolerant, and who you will really listen to, knowing that they mean well, then you may very well do OK here. It's quite possible that you may end up being the sort of editor who can help others find workarounds for which ever of their own problems they may have. Sometimes having something of a problem ourselves makes it easier for us to understand and teach others.

In the meantime, there are loads of little quiet tasks you can do here; simple things like fixing typos and so on, which will enable you to keep a low profile and still feel productive while the dust settles down around you. I hope that you, and the Wikipedia community, can find a way to bring out the best in you, and make you feel wanted and welcome here. Pesky (talk ) 07:56, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

I thought I'd drop a few notes on your talk page with some help on writing articles :o)

First of all, it may be best for you to do a bit of reading, starting with the Wikipedia manual of style, which will give you a lot of information about how Wikipedia prefers its articles to be written. It's not as hard to follow as it might look; quite a bit of the information there probably won't be vital for you at first.

Second, I recommend you make a user sandbox - which is just an area you can use to practise in, and to make notes in, and to get things ready in. If you click this red link: user:/Sandbox, that will let you create that page (it gives you an edit window to start work in). Anything, anywhere, on the help and information pages which gives you an example, try it out in your sandbox until you're familiar with it.

For your article, the next thing you want to do is start collecting as much information as you can about it. Google searches (particularly in Books and Scholar) will be your best friend for this! Once you've found the information, the next most important thing is to start writing up each fact in your own words (very important, this), and make a note at the same time of exactly where that information came from. Build in the references as you go along; I'm going to copy in, down below this, a whole heap of help on doing references, which was produced by one of our best teachers (Chzz).

Here's another place that you'll find incredibly useful - citation templates which you can copy and paste into your sandbox, between tags; you just fill in the blanks from your sources into the template, and you'll end up with nicely formatted inline citations :o) It all helps.  Remember to add a references section to your sandbox (make a new line, and put ==References== on it, and type  on the next line, so that you can see how your citations look as you do them. Remember to save your page often! You don't want to lose your work.

Hopefully this will give you a good start and make life easier for you.

One last thing to keep as a motto: "It's better to write one good, well-referenced, nicely-presented article than it is to create fifty unreferenced one-line stubs!"

Tips on referencing
There are lots of ways to do this, some are simple, some more complex.

Personally, I like using citation templates, and fill in as much as I possibly can; maybe a bit more work, but I think it looks better. You have a. An example usage is;

For all the possible things to include, see Template:Citation

Of course, you don't have to put everything in, just whatever you can. The above example is a book, but I've included a 'convenience link' to a website that displays it.

Then, at the end of the document (but before any 'category' tags), you need a references section. You just put,

Here's a little bit of magic which can save you an awful lot of time and effort!
You might want to consider using this tool - (tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/webreflinks.py) - it makes your life a whole heap easier, by filling in complete citation templates for your links. All you do is install the script on Special:MyPage/common.js, or Special:MyPage/vector.js, or Special:MyPage/monobook.js, and then paste the bare url (without [...] brackets) between your tabs, and you'll find a clickable link called Reflinks in your toolbox section of the page (probably in the left hand column). Then click that tool. It does all the rest of the work (provided that you remember to save the page!) It doesn't work for everything (particularly often not for pdf documents), but for pretty much anything ending in "htm" or "html" (and with a title) it will do really, really well all by itself. For those it can't do by itself, it gives you a pull-down (or up) menu of templates to choose from, which you can then fill in manually. Often the problem is "No title found" - sometimes the title is obvious (especially if it's a pdf), but, if not, just open the page yourself and choose something appropriate if there's not already a clear title there. Happy editing! Pesky (talk ) 10:28, 27 February 2012 (UTC)