User talk:S h a r o n z t h o t s

[I apologize for not being able to figure out how to use this feature...I had posted a question via the "Reference Desk" and received a couple of "replies", for which I am grateful; however, I do not know how to have a "dialog", or to add to the question I posed and the responses that were given. So, I'm continuing here...]

I do believe now that I have been using the phrase "logical consequences" inappropriately for the context of schooling and grades. Where to go from here...I have an enormous enmity for the system of compulsory schooling. This is not to imply that I don't think young people should learn to read, write and do some math. After attaining some degree of skill in those areas, I would wish for the availability of community-based, voluntary skills and knowledge-building. So with that background, back to compulsory schooling and "grades". What I have been trying to get at with the "logical consequences" thing is some alternative which may, perhaps, only be an alternative for those who seek knowledge, rather than who attend school only because they must. Thus, if one were to imagine an independent, self-motivated learner, one would see someone completely disinterested in trying to learn a skill, and being given an "A" "B" ...or "F", but would rather see some evidence for him/herself regarding acquisition of that skill. Think of "it works" or "it doesn't work".

Rather than dig around for some examples (I really should do this), help me understand the appropriateness of forcing young people to sit in one-size-fits-all chairs, told to turn to pages such-and-such, read, then answer the questions at the end of the chapter (which questions usually have only one right answer), then, being assigned a grade for their effort on this activity.

There is a specious connection--or disconnect altogether--regarding this "learning" and "grading" that goes on in schools. I sure wish someone could help me find a better term than the one I have been using--which was meant to focus more on the "logical" part than the "consequences" part, although the latter is certainly appropriate when you build something, say, a box to carry your "stuff" around: either it works or it doesn't; either the sides meet so nothing falls out or they don't; it does or does not have a nice, fitted top with a handle so that you can carry something in the box: These characteristics of the product constitute the logical consequence of your effort. S h a r o n z t h o t s (talk) 20:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

"logical" consequences? No. "natural" consequences
I think I've hit on the phrase I want to use, as I brought up and some here helped in the discussion. I had been using the term "logical consequences" for what schooling does not provide; that is, students get grades or points for their schoolwork, and these usually go into a "gradebook" or class roster. The "record" of these grades and points follows the student through their K-12 education. I have taken issue with this kind of learning, and compared it against situations wherein people (of all ages!) learn a skill and the validation of that learning is in an actual (as in real) consequence. Weakly, as "it works" or "it doesn't work".

Now I think that it is not logical consequences I am seeking, but somehow more natural consequences for the learning experience, having real-world feedback for the acquisition of skills.

--sharon